tva prasad

On 7/17/2017 at 10:38 PM, paapiman said:

Can you please shed some light on this word "ਕਰਾਚੌਲੀਏ"?

@chatanga1

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

In the foot note it says- naam karan vali (shakti). So shakti is being invoked.

@chatanga1 @dalsingh101 where do u guys publish your translations? Can I read some your work? 

15 hours ago, angy15 said:

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@Tva Prasad  Logic is very much a important part of Sikhi Guru Nanak had incorporated logic, reason t within his spirituality .Infact Logic is a antithesis to the notion of blind faith.

Blind faith is indeed praised in both Sikh and Vedanta traditions. Look at Shabri, Bhagat Dhanna, Bhagat Dhruv, etc. They had complete faith in god, faith comes from love and true love is blind. Imagine if Shabri had believed everyone else that Ram Chandar would never come, wouldn't that be logic? Imagine if Bhagat Dhanna never believed that the rock was god, wouldn't that be logic? Imagine again, if Bhagat Dhruv had used logic and never believed that god would come to earth to give him his father's love and his mum the proper status of a queen. 

When we look at the sakhi of Guru Nanak he refused to wear the Janeiyu he used logic and reason to  prove his point.

He told to the Pandit the kind of Janeiyu he likes to wear 

ਦਇਆ ਕਪਾਹ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਸੂਤੁ ਜਤੁ ਗੰਢੀ ਸਤੁ ਵਟੁ ॥ ਆਸਾ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:

Make compassion the cotton, contentment the thread, modesty the knot and truth the twist.

So Guruji says: “I prefer the janeiyu made of from the cotton of compassion, from the threads of contentment and one that is knotted in morality with truth.”

ਏਹੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਜੀਅ ਕਾ ਹਈ ਤ ਪਾਡੇ ਘਤੁ ॥

This is the sacred thread of the soul; if you have it, then go ahead and put it on me.

So, if you can, Paanday, then weave this sort of Janeiyu for the soul and for the mind.

Such a Janeiyu is for all humanity. It will raise the spirituality of all humans regardless of gender, creed, cast; to becoming one with humanity and becoming one with God.

Such powerful logic,  and so convincing an argument!

To me that sounds less like a logical and more of a spiritual argument. Just look at the context, pundits are generally focused on spirituality, so why would Guru Nanak use a logical argument? Doesn't sound right does it?

Secondly I don't understand what you mean that "Missionaries are influenced by Western Science".

It was the British that introduced the term "Indian mythology" prior to that everyone knew it was the ancient history of India. Western logic is based on arguments. The facts often get distorted, e.g. theory of evolution. It is true that monkeys possess features like ours, but really? 

In reality, these missionaries who hide behind "logic" (they think it is logic but it is manmat because it is their mind that is causing them to doubt spiritual philosophies and traditions like Vedanta and the power of the Gurus- miracles performed by the Gurus). They are preaching manmat in the name of gurmat. I think that's why so many people listen to them because they are not trying to do the very difficult task of stilling the mind but rather engaging it, engaging the mind seems much easier, right? We are supposed to control/still the mind, but they are not promoting that. Blind faith is the highest form of love. 

We are living in the 21st century  We are living in a scientific world ,people have become more logical and science oriented .Spirituality will not mean anything to them unless it is offered as  science.

The world is moving towards destruction, I think we should too (sarcasm). Science nowadays, is purely based on the human mind. If you have an argument and you can find evidence, even if it is out of context everyone will believe it. We are so gullible even though we act as if we are not. Not saying science in itself is bad.

Personally i dont see any conflict between Science and Gurbani.

Science in the ancient times went hand in hand with spirituality, whereas science now is like the rival of spirituality. I think the true for form of science goes hand in hand with spirituality because the inverse was created in a spiritual way, therefore the universe is spiritual. In Vedanta science is used in a spiritual way. 

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@Tva Prasad :Firstly thank you for giving a great methodology  of making Gurbani Interpetation.

You should thank Mr Doaba since he is the one who wrote that post. 

Secondly can you explain which part of the Gurbani interpretation principle mentioned below  does Missionaries don't follow . Infact Missinoaries are expert  when using Grammar Analysis and Antreev Arth .

They don't follow the literal meaning. The literal meaning is also a very important part of interpreting Gurbani. The soul is important for the body just as the body is important for the soul. 

51 minutes ago, angy15 said:

Veerji do you believe that our Gurus had redefined common words  that were used in their time .

Poets are known to use words in an artful way. One word can mean more than one thing. Also, poetry as a whole can have more than one meaning. 

20 hours ago, angy15 said:

Sikhi which we see today is not what our Gurus taught .Its distorted ,corrupted and Missionary and other Scholars are trying to clean up the mess.

Yes they are  Samparadas  worst nightmare.They are going to make Sampardas non existent. 

Saparadas have different ideology which is vedantic influenced .They interpret the meaning of gurbani using Vedantic  dictionary .Infact when we compare the Samparads interpretation and Hindu practices  their is so much similarities .Many of Hindu scholar in India call it fifth Ved .Thats  the reason we can see so many rituals in our Gurudwaras.

 

You are right in saying that Sikhi has been distorted but these missionaries and "scholars" (that don't know sh1t) are making things worse.

Sampardas are keeping the authentic Sikhi alive. 

There is nothing wrong with rituals, however there is something wrong with us. Don't be lead into believing whatever by Ghagri, discover the truth yourself. It is human nature to resist, but one should surrender. 

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2 hours ago, Singh123456777 said:

Whats funny is how in puratan granths there is panktis that are written about sikhs drinking sharaab . Who are we to know whats right or wrong. Again im not promoting alcohol even one bit, all im saying is we need to look at context before we categorize something and make it a rule.

Yeah I heard a nihang about this one time. He said the Singhs that seemed weak were made to drink alcohol before battle. The others drank sukha. Do they do anything before consuming alcohol, like a maryada or something?

On 10/23/2018 at 7:26 AM, amardeep said:

If I remember it correctly both the Chibbar writers quote this verse in a context of the Khalsa having to destroy their enemies. Also followed by the Sagal malech karo ranghata 

What does the word mallech mean here? The original meaning (from ancient Sanskrit texts) of this word can be translated as "barbarian", however it is possible that new meanings were attached to the word overtime.

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

The word Nihang also means a warrior. So, the above statement could imply "Warriors of Satjug".

 

Bhul chuk maaf

He was talking about Nihangs in relation to Shiv ji and the story of where Shiv ji first ate cannabis. He was basically discussing the origin of Sukha in Satyug.  

11 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Did he say Nihang Singhs or Shaheed Singhs?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

He said "Satjug de Nihang". 

13 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

I think according to themselves, they are refering to bhagats of Lord Shiv Ji. (Shiv-gans) etc. But not in the Khalsa bana of today though.

Did you ever watch "devon ke dev Mahadev" ? I learned so much from that.

I should watch that show, lol. Everyone recommends it to me. 

I heard and read that Singhs were present in Satyug. I was watching this video of a Nihang Singh and he mentioned Satyugi Nihang Singhs. Can someone please shed some more light on this? Who were Satyugi Singhs? Has this been recorded in any texts?

10 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

What do you personally believe regarding this Sakhi? And by that I mean do you believe it's suggesting as a blanket statement that by consuming alcohol one runs the risk of being born a Muslim in their next janam?

Legit wondering what you believe here because, quite a few people (namely Taksalis) seem to use this Sakhi to promote the belief I have stated above. As some sort of deterrent or guilt trip. Not denying the Sakhi btw...but thoroughly disagree when it is used to make this argument.

 

Gurbar Akaal!

I think drinking alcohol near your death will definitely result in rebirth in a lower family. I think that this sakhi portrays both things, namely,  being born in a Muslim family would be lower than a Hindu and also that alcohol can bring about bad karma. 

On 12/11/2016 at 9:52 PM, akalpurkh said:

Thoda hisaab lake gap chadeya karo veerji.
 
Mardana, being a muslim accompanied Guru Nanak Ji all their life. Did he pollute Sikhism? Guruji accepted and added Bhai Mardana's shabads in Guru Granth Sahib. 
Was Sgeikh Farid not a muslim?

The only polluted lineage I know is the 'Gappi' lineage which so called bramhgyanis started and you area all folllowing. This forum will surely win the Gapp competition if it helds in Sikhsim.

Mardana ji was a yogi in his past life, however due to drinking alcohol (for medical purposes near his death) he was born into a Muslim family. Nonetheless, god granted his desire to meet god. Therefore, he became a Muslim due to a mistake. 

As for bhagat fareed ji, it could be argued that he was a Sikh. 

On 8/26/2015 at 4:00 AM, paapiman said:

Very hard to believe that Satguru jee would utter such a statement. Possible tampering of a historical account.

Bhul chuk maaf

Bro, it's not hard to believe at all that guru ji would say that Muhammad's religion is a bhoot religion. 

@Ragmaala  This is the reason:

Quote

Shri Suta Gosvami said: In the dynasty of king Shalivahana, there were ten kings who went to the heavenly planets after ruling for over 500 years. Then gradually the morality declined on the earth. At that time Bhojaraja was the tenth of the kings on the earth. When he saw that the moral law of conduct was declining he went to conquer all the directions of his country with ten-thousand soldiers commanded by Kalidasa. He crossed the river Sindhu and conquered over the gandharas, mlecchas, shakas, kasmiris, naravas and sathas. He punished them and collected a large ammount of wealth. Then the king went along with Mahamada (Muhammad), the preceptor of mleccha-dharma, and his followers to the great god, Lord Shiva, situated in the desert. He bathed Lord Shiva with Ganges water and worshipped him in his mind with pancagavya (milk, ghee, yoghurt, cow dung, and cow urine) and sandalwood paste, etc. After he offered some prayers and pleased him.

Suta Goswami said: After hearing the king’s prayers, Lord Shiva said: O king Bhojaraja, you should go to the place called Mahakakshvara, that land is called Vahika and now is being contaminated by the mlecchas. In that terrible country there no longer exists dharma. There was a mystic demon named Tripura (Tripurasura), whom I have already burnt to ashes, he has come again by the order of Bali. He has no origin but he achieved a benediction from me. His name is Mahamada (Muhammad) and his deeds are like that of a ghost. Therefore, O king, you should not go to this land of the evil ghost. By my mercy your intelligence will be purified. Hearing this the king came back to his country and Mahamada (Muhammad) came with them to the bank of the river Sindhu. He was expert in expanding illusion, so he said to the king very pleasingly: O great king, your god has become my servant. Just see, as he eats my remnants, so I will show you. The king became surprised when he saw this just before them. Then in anger Kalidasa rebuked Mahamada (Muhammad) “O rascal, you have created an illusion to bewilder the king, I will kill you, you are the lowest..."

That city is known as their site of pilgrimage, a place which was Madina or free from intoxication. Having a form of a ghost (Bhuta), the expert illusionist Mahamada (Muhammad) appeared at night in front of king Bhojaraja and said: O king, your religion is of course known as the best religion among all. Still I am going to establish a terrible and demoniac religion by the order of the Lord . The symptoms of my followers will be that they first of all will cut their genitals, have no shikha, but having beard, be wicked, make noise loudly and eat everything. They should eat animals without performing any rituals. This is my opinion. They will perform purificatory act with the musala or a pestle as you purify your things with kusha. Therefore, they will be known as musalman, the corrupters of religion. Thus the demoniac religion will be founded by me. After having heard all this the king came back to his palace and that ghost (Muhammad) went back to his place.

The intelligent king, Bhojaraj established the language of Sanskrit in three varnas - the brahmanas, kshatriyas and vaisyas - and for the shudras he established prakrita-bhasha, the ordinary language spoken by common men. After ruling his kingdom for 50 years, he went to the heavenly planet. The moral laws established by him were honored even by the demigods. The arya-varta, the pious land is situated between Vindhyacala and Himacala or the mountains known as Vindhya and Himalaya. The Aryans reside there, but varna-sankaras reside on the lower part of Vindhya. The musalman people were kept on the other side of the river Sindhu.

On the island of Barbara, Tusha and many others also the followers of Isamsiha were also situated as they were managed by a king or demigods.^[4]

This a translation from bhavishya puran. 

God is great, however due to our short comings we fail to understand. 

2 hours ago, amardeep said:

I would argue the modern Sikh obsession in some circles with sola scriptura comes from a middle eastern perspective of what does it mean to be a religion. 

I think it is a western influence. Missionaries that are influenced by western science, "logic", etc. always promote single scripture, one rehit maryada, and stuff. They don't understand the importance of sampardas, etc. 

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On 10/10/2018 at 7:02 AM, Jageera said:

I disagree that Guru Nanak was Waheguru himself.Waheguru doesn't take birth and never dies.What that takes birth and dies is never the almighty himself.I doubt the almighty is able to take a human form.The energy is too big for that.A human body wouldn't be able to sustain that energy. Guru Nanak must have been a part of Waheguru sent by Waheguru himself to start a third path in Punjab that would spread worldwide.I think rather than empty worship a Sikh should realize and experience Waheguru

Are you sure that Guru Nanak actually took birth and died? In reality, death and birth are non-existent one who knows this neither takes birth nor dies. The Almighty lord who is ever present can take any form he wishes. Our bodies sustain energy of the almighty, this is known as Atma (is Atma really different from Parmatma?). At the end of the day this creation is an illusion by God, hence, God can do what he wishes as he controls the creation. Through worship alone one comes to experience him. With devotional worship one sheds ego and experiences the creator, knowing this world to be false thus forsaking it, s/he unites with Parmatama. Therefore, worship should not be forsaken, however, devotion and love should be present within ones heart if s/he desires to obtain God. 

TBH, I never knew nihang meant crocodile. 

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Things that are beyond the perception or understanding of our untrained mind, by us are termed "mystical" and "supernatural". Since people as such are unable to comprehend them they think they were made up by someone or are false. The trained and stilled mind knows that these things are the truth of the universe coming forth.

Do share your thoughts on the above two tales and similarities and differences.