8 hours ago, LetsSee said:

[quote=Singh123456777]You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again." Exodus 21: 7-8

Slavery is allowed in the bible as well as sex slavery.

Hmmmmm[/quote]

I will not comment anymore

•  

You are an absolute fool

Leviticus 25:44-46 King James Version (KJV)

⁴⁴ Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

⁴⁵ Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

⁴⁶ And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

 

and 

 

 

Exodus 21:7-8 King James Version (KJV)

⁷ And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

⁸ If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

 

There's nothing wrong with being a servant.

In todays day and age, if you have a job - if you work, you are a slave.  You are a wage slave.  You spend your life paying taxes, bills and so forth.  Do you really think calling yourself an employee makes any difference?  You are a servant of the government.  Of a faceless entity that does not care about you.

 

Some people spend their entire lives slaves to the government.  For ever relying on government housing. Forever relying on state benefits.  State pension.

Having rules on how to treat people is a good thing.

None of this explains or has anything to do with my opening post, which is about the fundamental of what you call 'god'.  You are just a snivelling little wimp, giggling like the mentality of a school kid.   You are  great advert for Sikhism!  You can't even answer my OP, instead you misquote something you seen and snigger like a baby!!!!!!! XXXDDDD

DON'T DARKEN MY DOOR AGAIN

 

 

Your God decided to save Lot and his family, the same Lot who offered his own daughters to be gangraped by his fellow citizens and the same daughters who then fornicated with their father because they couldn't find a man. I wouldn't throw stones while standing in a glass house my friend, I can go on and on about how the God of the bible constantly says he's merciful but then decides to destroy everyone because he's enraged or upset over something, or how he goes about saving a pious soul who ends up doing some pretty dark shit, example as above. I'm glad you're using the King James bible though, the one that was altered about 400 years ago, just like the bible all through history, maybe churn out your original manuscripts before attacking others . I see you seem to use "XDDDDDDDDDDD" all the time, I'll take this as an indication you're either a really young child or an overgrown manchild, so take this from here. Using a wiki source is both stupid and inaccurate, if you want to learn about Sikhism (and its pretty apparent you don't as you see this as a dong measuring contest and want to prove your faith is superior) then go and watch basics of Sikhi videos on youtube. They will (as the name suggests) give you the basics. 

Maybe rather than asking us if The Sikh God is evil, you should ask why your God is doing exactly as you describe above. God is letting Satan run rampant, he's letting all those kids die, It seems your God favours people like Lot and his family over everyone else, So God seems to favour incestuous offspring and their father who'd sooner offer his won daughters as fodder for a mob than defend his own ideals, he chooses all that over a poor starving African who's done nothing wrong (according to your gospel). 

8 hours ago, angy15 said:

Someone  Quoted in this forum these guys have their own version of Sikhi .So true!!

Your version of Sikhi doesn't have a single shred of historical proof. You've demanded proof from others so please provide your proof, where are the records saying your sikhi=true sikhi. Do they even exist?

8 hours ago, angy15 said:

But there kind of Sikhi will not last long. Time will come only these 4-5 bunch of pujaris will be discussing among themselves.

You call everyone Pujaris who doesn't agree with you. If Sikhi follows the way you and your husband Dhandriwala are going, we'll have cowards who wet themselves at the first sign of conflict and run, like your husband did. 

12 hours ago, angy15 said:

My question is to you .So as a Sikh you will believe earth is flat because Gurbani said so .Correct

If the Guru ever said to me that the earth was flat, I would say "Satya" as in that is true. The Guru is all knowing and I will always trust his word over my own, I could be standing in daylight and if the Guru said "it is night" I would still say the same, You already demonstrated that if the Guru ever told you the world is flat you'd start bickering and screaming about science saying something different. That's the difference between you and people who have faith in bani. You have no faith, you just admitted you're willing to argue with the Guru if he ever said the world was flat. I don't know where you drag in the fact i've said the world is flat. I've never said it at all, I took a negative and said if it came from the mouth of Satguru Ji, would you believe it? 

That was the question I asked you, IF the Guru (Gurbani) ever said to you, directly...the world is flat. What would you say? going by your response you'd say "no its not" and then start arguing and trying to correct the Guru. Yes...you're that level of arrogance you'd try and correct someone that's described as all knowing. 

As a Sikh i couldn't care less about the shape of the earth, once again the point as flown over you head. I made a hypothetical situation where Gurbani and Science have said something opposite, i asked you which side you'd take. You choose science over bani. Google the word hypothetical, since its apparent you can't understand english.

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Seeker should have blind faith in his GURU.But the  GURU should not be blind.

More contradictions, how do you know the Guru is blind? because science says so? do you even know how science works. Sciences works on the basis of the most plausible theory out there, there's no such thing as certainty, that's the first thing you learn in the scientific process. If the Guru ever said something, as a Sikh its our duty to agree to it because as Bani says the Guru is always right. If science says something opposite then for me the Guru's word will always outweigh it as Bani has said countless times the Guru's word is law and always right. 

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Why are you ignoring my question on your reincarantion ,What does one become in the next world who slaughters animal in the Gurudwara premises.

They don't become anything in the "next world" what's the "next world" you keep harping on about in regards to reincarnation? do you even know how reincarnation works? clearly you don't.  

Also please provide a detailed mathematical proof on how God exists, please write it from scratch. You love to bring in science so let's do so. Don't copy and paste random bull, im sure with your scientific background you can manage one.

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

You are the dumbest person on this planet in  the 21st century who believes that earth  is flat

I never said it was flat, where have I said it was flat?

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ou also believe that Sun revolves around the earth

again find me the quote where i said that. 

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 Which primitive tribe you belong to dude? 

I don't know. But im definetely not from the same one as you and your husband Dhandriwala, seems like you guys only love talking big but when the big is bullets you wet yourselves and run. 

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 You HAte Science.

Where have I said that?

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Your religious thinking is backward.

Science says religion is bogus. Make belief, so why are you religious. 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Dont twist the question you bigot .

I didn't twist you, you answered it..

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You asked a hypothetical question that if Gurbani says earth is flat and Science proves it round in todays time whom you side with .What do you think a wise educated person answers will be?

I'm not asking you as an educated person, I'm asking you as a Sikh. A true sikh would believe in Gurbani 100%, Gurbani says this. Yet you choose to side with science and are willing to even let the notion that Gurbani is wrong creep into your mind. 

IF Gurbani said the world is flat, you would side with science by your own admission. Yet as Gurbani says,a Sikh would trust his Guru over anything else. 

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Problem with you is ur  whole mind and intellect is  conditioned with ritualistic and mythical sakhis 

Mythical sakhis? I posted ones that Guru Ji himself narrates in Gurbani. You still don't beleive it. Bhai Gurdas Ji's varan (the original copies are still with us) are corrupt according to you guys, you don't Suraj Prakash Granth, Panth Prakash, Bhai Mani Singh Ji's Janamsakhis, what do you guys like? other than your own arrogant stuff you conjure from thin air. You guys will bring down any historical Gurudwara with even a remote sakhi about a miracle because you start whining and complaining about "how could it have happened". You changed from Gurbani is Poetry to Gurbani is science on a whim. What a bunch of hypocrites.

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You dont live in this world HERE and NOW

Funny because you guys have turned Sikhism into science with a divine hand. You've yet to refute any of the videos which show the Vedas and the Quran also make the same claims you do, Why are they wrong but you're right. The science world laughs at people like you, everyone does. 

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All you are worried what will you be in the next world.

You guys don't even believe in a next world, so why are you butthurt over it. You want scientific proof for everything so find me the science on how a divine hand brought forth the universe.

6 hours ago, angy15 said:

Are you dumb A**.I never proved Gurbani through science.i said Gurbani had already  mentioned abt evolution theory  and same theory science has discovered later 

You said early on if Gurbani said something Science didn't agree with, you'd side with science. You already made it clear you run everything through science, so science will always be superior to you than Gurbani. 

8 hours ago, angy15 said:

Jai Shri RAM ,RSS- TAKSALI BHAI BHAI.

So Sant Jarnail Singh Ji was an RSS agent? Jesus Christ. You really are stupid.

11 hours ago, angy15 said:

Mr reader I have already answered it go look for it.

So I'm guessing you're the "wise man" you answered for. Well thank you, because you've subsequently shown you're more loyal to science than Gurbani. You'll turn against Gurbani if it contradicts science, thank you for showing everyone on this forum you're nothing more than a humanist rather than a sikh. Gurbani mentions multiple times how the only way to live is to have 100% faith in Guru Ji (Gurbani) yet you can't even muster that if sciences finds something Gurbani says is wrong. Thank you for showing everyone here that you'll put sciences are your Guru and not Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

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Their is no link of above question with ek sikh Rehat Mariyada u r just ignoring my question

Firstly you started this, you started talking about how miracles were "unnatural" and how they contradict nature. Then when that route failed as Gurbani said multiple times that miracles do occur, you started going on about 1 rehit maryada, where is that rehit marayda from? find me the historical document it comes from. Find me a historical source that says the sikh panth was always meant to have 1 maryada. 

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 I don't want to discuss with fake Sikhs who are not in favour of Ek Sikh Rehat Mariyada. U celebrate ur version of Sikhi.

The same people who promote your rehit also said Homosexuality is unnatural, so tell me stupid one. Why is something unnatural occurring all over nature? do you go up to your gay friends and says "hey guys, you're unnatural" You love to toot science but the people who made the rehit had about as much scientific gyan as Dhandriwala has courage when confronted with bullets, which is next to nothing.

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I think you don' t understand evolution.

I think you don't understand it, given the drivel you posted next.

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 Although Rocks are composed of minerals and are inanimate  but the same minerals were building block  of primitive life  which ultimately give rise to life(animates) it is scientifically proven too. and it doen't happen randomly ,it takes millions of year .

bullshit, crack open a basic biology book. Evolution is totally random. Technically evolution starts from single cell organisms as that's when they're technically alive, before that they're just atoms and compounds, which aren't alive. 

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Günter Wächtershäuser expert in chemistry proposed that the first organisms were drastically different from anything we know. They were not made of cells. They did not have enzymes, DNA or RNA.instead, Wächtershäuser imagined a flow of hot water streaming out of a volcano. The water was rich in volcanic gases like ammonia, and held traces of minerals from the volcano's heart.

So they weren't life, they don't fall into the scientific definition of life at all. They weren't single cell organism, by this logic evolution of man started when the big bang originally happened. Life begins from single cell organisms, before that, they're not considered life. According to science therefore, Life begins then. Not before, as before its nothing more than chemical reactions happening.

10 hours ago, angy15 said:

How amazing our Guruji were far ahead of his time.He was truley a Natural  Philosopher and scientist too .

You mean like how every single christian and muslim makes the same claims about science. You guys and them are just hilarious, one minute gurbani is poetry, the next minute its about evolution. Pick one and stick to it. 

Let's see how muslims say the same thing.

Notice how everyone says the same things, yet no one can prove it? Why should your word be better than theirs. Look how Lord Krishna describes the theory of relativity to Lord Brahma! clearly he was a true scientist through and through.

16 hours ago, angy15 said:

@Reader

Please if you can reply this too.

I'll reply to you once you answer the same question iv asked multiple times now. Why do you hide from it? I asked you if Gurbani said the world was flat, but Science said it was round, who would you side with?

Answer it and I'll answer yours, since I asked first you should respond first. Common sense really. 

9 hours ago, angy15 said:

Here  Guru Arjan here is describing evolution of man  just like Darwin's Theory of Evolution although sequence of evolution is not same.

No he's not. Rocks are just minerals, they don't "evolve" the same way as life, heck they technically don't evolve at all. Now I know what you'll say "hur dur muh microbial in the rock hur dur" but I'll give you a little news flash, read the verse. There's no mention of them, Gurbani has defined them and named them actually, but in this verse it's not mentioned. So tell me dear wife of Dhandriwala, do rocks have souls? are minerals alive now?

9 hours ago, angy15 said:

You  all don't have that khalsa spirit 

Funny cuz that's exactly what everyone said when Dhandriwala wet himself and ran away to hide like a dog. Funny how you scream no one else has it but you and your missionary friends seem to run from any actual confrontation. Tell me how many Shaheed missionaries there are. Most of you morons slap on Professor or Doctor without actually knowing true academia when it slaps you in the face.  

8 hours ago, angy15 said:

You are for sure frustrated writing so much crab.

Funny because I don't feel frustrated. Trust me, there are far harder people to refute. Missionaries refute themselves like you. Why do you refuse to answer my question. I asked you if Sciences says the world is round but Gurbani said the world is flat, who would you side with?

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I never said he is a liar.i said  some his vaaran might be corrupted by your fellow nirmalas .

Who said I was a nirmala? I certainly didn't. Funny how you argue that they MIGHT be corrupted, you have no proof they are. You argued that miracles were against hukam, failed at that as there are verses in bani and the Varan from Bhai Gurdas Ji that refute your statement. You want to argue corruption, well the originals are there and they contain them. So no corruption there. 

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 As an institution it was taksali who should have been forefront in spreading teaching of gurmat.but they have failed all know they are just bunch of mafias on contract of  political fools and carrying out killing (remember shabil stall) and removing turbans

and missionaries stand on stage and treat Guru Nanak Dev Ji as some ordinary person. Taksal was also the one that defended Harmandir Sahib, where were you and your missionary buddies? The same organisation you're dissing gave their heads for the panth. Your husband Dhandriwala wet himself at the sound of a bullets. The Original Taksalis fought in a rain of them. 

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By Guru grace  the role and responsibilities of teaching gurmat is done by missionaries and they are doing great service to the community

You mean by picking and choosing what they want to believe? The same people you're in bed with wanted to take out Bhagat bani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji because it offended them. The only service missionaries are doing is constantly finding new things to get offended over. 

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 BTW Mr Reader when did you last time did a havan at your place.

It's been a while but navratri is here, so @chatanga1 and I were gonna do one for Adi Shakti, brother @DeNiro is also welcome.  Jai Maa Chandika. Jai Maa Kalika.

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my friend 

 how do you not believe in miracles? That alone is a miracle. Akaal Purkh worked a miracle for you by actually giving you friends. 

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 ex student of taksali institutw very proficient in doing havan which he learned.

This might come as a shock to you, since you spend most of your time kissing Dhandriwala's urine covered feet, but Taksal don't conduct Havan. You're thinking of a whole different school. Either your friend is more dim than you, or you're lying. But with you, I'd bet it was a bit of both. 

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For you Guru Nanak saying is not important but self created  mystical sayings of your godman is more important.

You heard it from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Kabir Ji's chains broke and he floated, Akaal Purkh manifested for Bhagat Namdev Ji when he tried to give milk to a moorti, Akaal Purkh brought a dead cow back, I could go on as there's name after name of Karamats being done for Waheguru's bhagats, mentioned in Gurbani itself. 

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 Every page of your sampridayas,nirmalad  literature is stuffed with vedantic rott.

Funny cuz one of the first things the Vedas says is what Gurbani says about Brahman. If you guys hate their literature so much, find us sources that match your views. IF your sikkhi is true they will exist, but nah. What you'll do is, go through everything. Take out what you hate, change things and then present a new story, devised from....nothing. 

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 You have reduced SGGS to mantra chanting manual the fifth Vedas.

You guys don't even believe in it fully. Your missionary friends have argued that Bhagat Bani should be taken out, Gurbani instills warrior spirit. Where was your husband's khalsa spirit when he defecated and hid himself like a coward. 

@chatanga1

ਅਪਨੇ ਭਗਤ ਪਰਿ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ ॥ ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਆਏ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥੧੬॥ ਕਹਹਿ ਤ ਧਰਣਿ ਇਕੋਡੀ ਕਰਉ ॥ ਕਹਹਿ ਤ ਲੇ ਕਰਿ ਊਪਰਿ ਧਰਉ ॥੧੭॥ ਕਹਹਿ ਤ ਮੁਈ ਗਊ ਦੇਉ ਜੀਆਇ ॥ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ਦੇਖੈ ਪਤੀਆਇ ॥੧੮॥ ਨਾਮਾ ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਸੇਲ ਮਸੇਲ ॥ ਗਊ ਦੁਹਾਈ ਬਛਰਾ ਮੇਲਿ ॥੧੯॥ ਦੂਧਹਿ ਦੁਹਿ ਜਬ ਮਟੁਕੀ ਭਰੀ ॥ ਲੇ ਬਾਦਿਸਾਹ ਕੇ ਆਗੇ ਧਰੀ ॥੨੦॥ 
 

Isn't it ironic. This entire Sakhi of a deadcow being Brought to life by Nirankar Ji for Bhagat Naamdev Ji is within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Dhandriawala's wife is clearly the king in this 

14 hours ago, angy15 said:

What a dumb question you have asked.Gurbani is never written on assumptions which otherwise in further will be proven  wrong.

This isn't dumb, the reason you think its dumb is because you're mind is closed. You want to talk logic but you refuse to actually engage in a logical debate. 

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If we assume for your sake of argument  that gurbani says Earth is flat and science proofs earth is round.offcourse any wise man will Believe gurbani is wrong.

I'm not asking what a wise man will do. I'm asking what you'll say oh Great Wife of Dhandriwala, So am I to take you'll side with science over Gurbani?

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So you have drifted away from Miracles to rehat and its presence in SGGS.You have not answered the shabads which mentions rejecting these miracles.

I answered them, the reason you can't swallow it is simple. You read the first tukh and started dancing like a monkey, if you read ahead you'd realise its critisizing those who use their powers to wow the world, Gain influence and following.  You started the debate about Rehit. So I carried it on. 

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I now you pujari are always nervous to discuss shabads from the gurbani.What you are doing is discussing something which is not mentioned in Gurbani .Your desperation to for the proof says it

 all.

Where am I nervous, I openly showed you where the Shabad's meaning is. You called Bhai Gurdas Ji's varan as corrupted, you're the one implying the scribe of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's first saroop is a liar, not me. You wanted evidence and I pointed it out, the sakhi is in every single sikh historical source out there, the original varan are also present in the reference library, we have them in their first form and they exist there. The only person getting nervous is you, you've openly insulted a Gursikh who was a contemporary of Guru Ji. That alone speaks volumes of your own arrogance.

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Verses like these in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji explain it all — that our Guru ji is all embracing. All are equal in his eyes. Our own deeds and spiritual  values define whether we are a loving human being or not .

We know that Sikhi is for the within and that Sikhi has elements for the external as well. The context now is to affirm that in Sikhi what is within is more important than the external appearance.  So lets look  more Gurbani verses for guidance.

contradiction after contradiction from you. The Khalsa rehit as you just admitted isn't from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji so it must be rejected. There's no tukh that tells sikhs to keep kesh or take amrit, as you've just shown. The bolded alone shows that, if being Sikh is all about the internal more than external then Rehit wouldn't be important at all as Internal is all one needs. Guru Ji would never have told sikhs to keep Kesh then. BY this stupid logic then Kesh isn't important at all, infact its possible to be a fully fledged Brahmgyani without keeping Kesh or rehit as you're so putting it

Here Guru Ji even criticises those who keep long hair.

ਮੂੰਡੁ ਮੁਡਾਇ ਜਟਾ ਸਿਖ ਬਾਧੀ ਮੋਨਿ ਰਹੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ ॥ 
 

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Yes there is Khalsa rehat which  outside the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Sikhs accept it .It  might not be acceptable to Hindus and Muslim but still they want to follow the message of SGGS.

 So this is the reason rehat is not mentioned because it will take away the universal essence and will be limited to sikhs only.

more crap from Dhadariwala's wife I see. There's instructions to Sikhs in there, about what to do. How to live. The whole crap about "universal" message will only work so far, but the fact remains it tells Sikhs how to live (Gur ka Sikh jo akavaye), yet Kesh isn't mentioned there. You're arguing that its so Hindus and Muslims dont get their feelings hurt? what an absolutely stupid notion. Hindus worship Devs yet the Devs are criticised, muslims bow to mecca and that is criticised. Yet suddenly when Guru Ji was gonna put down rehit for Sikhs he didn't because what? He didn;t want to alienate the muslims and the hindus? after criticising so many of their rituals and beliefs?

Also please show me the historical text telling Sikhs to keep Kesh and follow rehit then. 

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So   message is clear  if vichaar of the shabad is not done than bowing in front is merely a idol worship .

More nonsense. You'll cry here about how Hindus don't do veechar of their shabads and just bash their heads on mandir floors. Vaishnatives read the Gita and then bow to idols of Lord Sri Krishna, by your logic that is also not idol worship. a Shivaite that worships a shivling and reads the Shiv Purana isn't doing idol worship. Like it or not but you're digging yourself into a hole, you can't say that if you don't have the feelings then it's idol worship or the veechar. If you're doing Veechar of Shabad then you'll find God in you, no need to do Metha Tekh to anything. That's the missionary view on this. 

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Only shows where your belief is coming from  A Typical banarasi Pujari reply  you have given. If at all was to prove a point he would have done it  through vichar and bibek buddhi and Not by showing karamat .Go and read Sidh Ghosht and educate yourself .

You don't even believe that everything happens in Akaal Purkh's hukam so what can I say about  your Buddhi? Sidh Ghost is a part of my nitnem, im more familiar with it than you are, the opening Pauris of Japji Sahib seem to be a mystery to you as Guru Ji flat out says that "ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ". Trust me., the fact that you'll tear into Bhai Gurdas Ji's varan and call him a liar is a sign you have no respect for Ucha Gursikhs like him and think you're sarb gyani on Gurmat.

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It would be better you  discuss in regards to Topic of Discussion which is Dhandrianwala Vs Akauthi Taksali . i am not intereseted to discuss my personnel sadhana with you .

No but you have all the time in the world to argue and call Bhai Gurdas Ji a liar. 

Anyways back to my thought experiment. I don't want any "a wise man would do this" or "muh science" nonsense. Cut the crap and get to the point. If Gurbani said the world is flat but science said the world is round, who are YOU going to side with? Your answer will tell the entire sangat what kind of "sikh" you are.

35 minutes ago, angy15 said:

Your Answers lies in the question itself the problem you are not able to digest it.

You tell me which of three  points  were followed before Guru Gobind Singh.

 

 

You're not answering my question. Find me the tukhs, now. Go on, go and look through Gurbani , if my answer is in my question then you'll find it in Gurbani too. Find me tukhs in SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI that say we have to keep Kesh, we have to keep kakars, we have to take Amrit as Guru Gobind SIngh Ji ordained, we have to do Metha Tekh to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, find me where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji it says that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Guru of the Sikhs. Find me the proof, find me the references in Gurbani. You were crying on another thread about wanting references so put your money where your mouth is wife of Dhadariwala. Find me these references, show us oh great one your amazing grasp of Gurbani.

31 minutes ago, angy15 said:

You are a true keshadhari banarasi  Brahmin fascinated with rope snake tricks.

Why won't you answer my question though? 

Lets say Gurbani tells you the world is flat, but you observe that the world is round. So whom do you side with? One answer here, Gurbani or your own insight. No clever remarks, if you try that approach I'll conclude that that you're simply not a sikh as u have no faith in bani.

11 hours ago, angy15 said:

I had said what is the stand of missionaries is on miricales

 

Corrected this for you.

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o many self contradictions in your reply .i can feel arrogance and frustrations in your reply.

Again you have proved that you believe Sikh religion being a miraculous and ritualistic religion like hindu religion

become an atheist then. They follow the exact same principles as you, minus God. You'll love it there. 

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ਗੁਪਤੁ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ਬੈਸਾ ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ ॥

Do you see that tukh? the one you always seem to overlook in your example. That alone shows you can't be arsed reading Gurbani properly yet you're coming here lecturing others on it. The verse is critisizing those that use Sidhis to make other people be impressed by that.  ਲੋਕੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਭਾਉ <--- see that? not rocket science. 

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Doesn't make sense because  Hukam and miracle  are opposite of each other.

Nothing is outside of Hukam, Everything that happens is within hukam, go and try and defy God, you can't as you're bound by his rules. Not yours.

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 How foolish the theory is.Nanak performed some miricale to prove a point to a Phir somewhere near mecca  to show his son  some worlds and bringing back some food from somewhere from outer space .

 But same  Guru Nanak  did not perform any miracles  when Darbar Sahib was attacked innocent Sikhs were killed.

Its purely a mythical adultered  story

More stupid nonsense from Dhadariwala's wife I see. Firstly those are 2 different incidents, trying to put them together is like trying to compare world war 2 to a live debate on tv. Guru Ji demonstrated his power to prove a point to the Pir, He didn't do it to cause the Pir to become impressed, he did it purely to show the infinite nature of God's creation. The Pir was a devout man, he was also pious and open minded. Hence why Guru Ji showed him this to put him straight. 

The Darbar Sahib incident is different altogether. Firstly, That's like having a rich friend (with Sidhis in this case) who you run to and ask to do everything, he does so but that makes you less autonomous.  Guru Ji wanted his ordinary Sikhs (see the word ordinary) to be able to stand up against Tyranny and fight. Ordinary folks cant work anything so they rely on their weapons and shashters. 

Funny how you mention the attack on Darbar Sahib, the person defending it was a Taksali who believed what I'm saying, in-fact there is katha by him online. Look it up. SO where were you and your missionary buddies when Harmandhir Sahib was attacked? Dhandariawala crapped himself when someone shot at him, he ran and hid like a coward. What an amazing Sikh! you seem to want lick his feet from the way you feverishly defend him yet he still ran, defecated and also sat around afraid. Meanwhile you've sat here calling Taksalis horrible things when one of the Jathedhars of Taksal defended Harmandhir Sahib and faced an army. Dhandriwala's biggest enemy seems to be his own bowels.

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This is very bizzare .No sense in this argument. What rehat was followed before Guru Gobind Sing.please tell the audience.What rehat Kabir,Farid  and Bhatts had?Were they sikh? .

Dont answer my question with a question. Answer me this, find me the tukh in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that says the following. 

1) Keep Kakars

2) Take Amrit as prepared by Guru Gobind Singh Ji

3) Keep Kesh at all times.

4) where does it say we have to do Metha tek to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and not turn our backs to it. BY your own definitions this is idol worship.

Go for it. I'm waiting.

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 Let me make it clear to you even after taking amrit you are not pure sikh as long as you dont follow the teaching  of SGGS .Taking amrit  alone doen't define a sikh .

Finally, something that makes sense from you.

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 Regarding the varaan 1 pauri 36(corrupted)  please tell us what is the spiritual message /nourishment do you get .

Corrupt how? you call it corrupt and insult Bhai Gurdas Ji because you're so deluded in your own ego that you think you have Sikhi penned down. The original varan exist and are in the reference library, the sakhi is within them, this Sakhi has been traced by all through history, it's in Suraj Prakash Granth, Panth Prakash (I believe), Bhai Mani Singh Ji's Janam Sakhis, Bhai Bala Ji's janamasakhis, they all contain it. You want proof well here it is. Read it and weep. All you've shown here is that you missionaries want to throw out anything you don't like. 

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ਮਤੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਭੂਲਾ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਉ ॥੩॥

Dont cut apart Gurbani and then throw it in there to try and give a different message. 

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Brother Miracles are mostly fiction .They are opposite of hukum as it means nature /God is not trustworthy .GURMAT is all abt HUKUM and BANNA.

Dear Wife of Dhandariawala. What is real and what is not, that  only  God knows. There's nothing he can't do,  You've still not answered my question. btw. So I'll ask you again since its apparent you seem to shy away from these things. 

This is a thought experiment and it should completely decipher where your loyalties lie. 

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I have a question for you, this should be simple enough and should tell you who you'll believe. 

Lets say Gurbani tells you the world is flat, but you observe that the world is round. So whom do you side with? One answer here, Gurbani or your own insight. No clever remarks, if you try that approach I'll conclude that that you're simply not a sikh as u have no faith in bani.

2 hours ago, angy15 said:

All they have done is hijacked the true Sikhi and  infected it with their ideology/mythical stories  .And result are in front of us ignorance ofphilosophy  of SGGS and youth drifting away from Sikhi.

Funny as you guys do nothing more than cry about everything else. How many Shaheed Missionaries exist btw? Traditional schools like Taksal, Dal, Nirmala, Sevapanthi all have a long history of shaheedi, where is yours? Your best friend Dhadriwala crapped himself and peed when someone attacked him. Meanwhile Taksalis like Sant Jarnail Singh Ji faced bullets face-first defending Harmandhir Sahib.

3 hours ago, angy15 said:

First of all this verse  is not from SGGS. I have stated earlier also whatever stuff is said or spoken and if  suspected it must be BENCHMARKED against SGGS messgae.

So I guess you don't keep your kesh then too? don't wear kakars or take amrit? lemme guess, you don't do nagar Kirtan and the 5 Pyare never happened too. Bhai Gurdas Ji was a contemporary of Guru Ji, his varan are parvan. You can find the originals in the reference library, this verse also exists in them. Cut the nonsense, you idiots like to take out what you don't like. That's the sad truth of you missionaries, you love to edit history and simply change it because it flies over your head. 

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What you are trying to convey to the audience is Guru Nanak like Santan Dharam   indeed performed miracles.So your belief is  that Sikh is a miraculous and ritualistic religion like any other religion.

Why can't the Gurus perform miracles? There's miracles mentioned happening in Gurbani, Bhagat Kabir Ji recounts how his chains broke when the brahmins threw him in the water and he ended up floating, a dead cow came back to life for Bhagat Namdev Ji, I could go on but it's pretty apparent you and your new best buddy Dhadriawala will simply stick to a more athiestic approach. Gurbani says SHOWING miracles to get ahead in the world is wrong, using them for personal gain is wrong BUT should the need arise to protect and uphold Dharama then yes it is parvan. 

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So simply Guru Nanak if were  to able to do all these unnatural acts none of this miracles  will provide any benefits to the humanity all these will give false ego.

There;s the key phrase there, Guru Ji flat out said if he did it to hold people in awe, to gain influence then its pointless.  

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So simply Guru Nanak if were  to able to do all these unnatural acts none of this miracles  will provide any benefits to the humanity all these will give false ego.

No benefit? of course you wouldn't see one. Someone that pulls tukhs out and changes them on a whim couldn't hopeless understand what God is capable of. So please tell me how the universe came into being, according to science God isn't needed. Did God just magic it up? According to science there is no such thing as a divine being, who are you connecting to? 

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If at all Guru Nanak performed miracles then their is nothing Nirmal  abt it .All kind Miracles  qand rituals were already performed before his birth then what was unique in his miracles .

Because unlike the other folks doing them Guru Ji told his sikhs to hide them away and only use them in Hukam. 

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 So we can definitely see the contradictions of this Bhai Gurdas vaaran with SGGS  .So painstaking research is required to remove the adulterated  elements from his Varran.

This is what I love about you moronic missionaries. You're tearing through scriptures and poking holes in your own stupid logic. If Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the benchmark then you guys are also going to get rid of amrit, get rid of kesh rehit, get rid of everything. As NONE of that is mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. What do you guys exactly like? other than your own huge egos? you hate every historical text/Teeka out there so where is your history from? 

The original manuscripts of Bhai Gurdas Ji's varan and Swaiye exist, you can even access them all this is in there but you guys want to take it out because you hate it all. They exist and these come directly from them. So no there's not corrupt, what you idiots are doing is calling Bhai Gurdas Ji a liar now because you can't understand the varan and Gurbani themselves.

I have a question for you, this should be simple enough and should tell you who you'll believe. 

Lets say Gurbani tells you the world is flat, but you observe that the world is round. So whom do you side with? One answer here, Gurbani or your own insight. No clever remarks, if you try that approach I'll conclude that that you're simply not a sikh as u have no faith in bani.

17 minutes ago, angy15 said:

How are u relating it to Dhandriwala.totally irrelevant.

 

Because like your new best friend, you call everything Brahmvaad. Read the vaar, and tell me if Bhai Gurdas Ji is lying. 

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Plz provide the vaaran number  if you need proper reply.

Vaar number 1, Shabad 36. This is really truly something, you're crying about tat Gurmat yet you've not even touched these varan. Shocking.

On 10/2/2018 at 8:51 AM, angy15 said:

 

You seems to be totally out of Sync with the discussion.How is above quoted text  related to Dhandriwala ? kindly explain .

Where is this source of information coming from is it in his Varan ?

Yeah it is in his Varan, and its important. You seem to cry Brahmvaad at everything so I asked you if you think Bhai Gurdas Ji was wrong to write this, keeping in mind he had access to Baba Buddha Ji who would have heard all this from Bhai Mardana Ji anyways. Is this Brahmvaad as well then?

I'm still waiting for you to provide the historical source for the missionary sakhi you keep bringing up about Guru Harkrishan Ji.

9 hours ago, angy15 said:

Majority of Sikh have started rejecting Taksali ideology

Please find the poll that you conducted and do present it here.

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He is no match to Dhandrianwala intellect 

Are you actually this dense? the idiot doesn't even know the difference between "mary Christmas" and "Merry Christmas", for an idiot that claims to read Gurbani he can't even get biblical knowledge down despite the fact its mentioned in Gurbani as well. What a great scholar.

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Well it just a matter of few years  taksali ideology will be meaningless.

I had no idea you were some sort of fortune teller. 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

Why are you making a fool of yourself.the most dangerous tilte given  is to your self styled mahapurush .

Put it in your mind he doesn't put sant in front of his name after he realised the false practices of Sant Samaj.

just answer his question. Why do you avoid these questions with constant attacks at others. I'm still waiting for a reply to my question. 

Bhai Gurdas Ji said that Guru Nanak Dev Ji visited other worlds and disappeared infront of an entire congregation. Would you agree with Bhai Sahib Ji? 

13 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Yes I know that. I believe Mata Sahib Dewan to be my mother but Mai Bhago ji, Bibi Bhani ji, Mata Sulakhani ji, Mata Gujri ji, Bebe Nanaki are also my mothers.

My point wasn't to diminish the contribution to Mata Sahib Dewan, although I see I have some learning to do in that regard, it was to highlight the importance of all the other mothers and fathers who have contributed and are not being talked about here or in the present mainstream Ardas.

 

None of them were made the Mother of the Khalsa, that alone is a huge honour. You are deminishing her contribution, in-fact you outright said that the other Bibis did more for the panth than Mata Ji did. Don't retract now.

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Source?

The physical hukamnamas that are present, you can view them online.

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Firstly, it's Ram Chandra ji, not "ram chandar". Show some respect.

Wow, it's the proverbial pot calling the kettle black. Firstly it's Mata Sahib Devan JI  not Mata Sahib Devan. Funny how you call for respect but seem to refuse to give any.

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 Secondly, state the full truth. Guru Gobind Singh ji, or if you believe another Kavi wrote it then that Kavi, specifically states that Guru ji descended from the sons of Ram Chandra ji. This makes Ram Chandra ji his forefather.

Thirdly, Guru Gobind Singh ji's actions map out on the Moral Code that is set forth by Raja Ram Chandra ji's actions in Sant Valmiki ji's Ramayan.

And his forefather was Raja Dasrath, and so on and so forth. Why stop at Lord Rama? 

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Guru ji followed this code to the letter and this makes Guru ji not just the biological son but also the spiritual son.

I'm gonna quote something you wrote later on, because it seems you want to place Lord Rama in the same Category as Guru Ji. The below quote from you should pretty much answer your own question

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which is a bowing to a set of principles or ideals which anyone from (almost) any philosophy can agree with.

So basically Valmiki Ji (writing down the words of Lord Rama) put forth common sense, and suddenly because Guru Ji said the same he's the Spiritual Son but when it comes to the Mool Mantar "oh everyone can agree on that" . Read Dasam Granth Sahib for once, Guru Ji flat out says that the Chaubis Avtar were unable to comprehend God, While Satguru Ji is Pooran Waheguru Saroop, of course Guru Ji knew the mystery of Waheguru Ji. Lord Rama clearly didn't.

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Call me RSS if you like but I think this is an important fact that some in our community have forgotten and/or ignored, to their own detriment. Some have gone so far as attacking and maligning the reality and the character of Ram Chandra ji in order to further their agenda.

On the other side of the spectrum people like you want to place him next to Guru Sahiban when that was something just as detrimental. I know now you'll start to paste quotes from Adi Guru Darbar and try your usual convoluted method to try and make Lord Rama the same as Guru Ji and so on and so forth.

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1. I'll take you up on that but in this case, Maya ji as Divine Mother is mentioned in all existing Teekas.

 I would love to see your Teeka, Bhagat Singh, student of Bhagat Singh, member of Bhagat Singh Jatha founded on Sikhawareness. Maya mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a reference only to the material, in that sense yes you're right but what you're doing is taking a take, slicing it, taking one piece and saying to everyone "look here its the whole cake". Adi Shakti is beyond that. Maya is restricted to the 3 gunas (Rajas, Tamas, Satav) as a power, that's all it can work with, while Adi Shakti is beyond even that. 

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-your post-

Maya mentioned in Adi Guru Darbar is different from Maya mentioned as material etc. Also if you're going to quote Gurbani have the common decency to get it right.  It's not "Mahakal hai pita apara"; it's ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਹੈ ਪਿਤਾ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ and its not "Devi Kalika maat hamara" it's  ਦੇਬਿ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਮਾਤ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥

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The Mool Manter is a Manglacharan, which is a bowing to a set of principles or ideals which anyone from (almost) any philosophy can agree with.

It is important to Sikh philosophy but not the specific defining feature of the philosophy that is espoused in Guru Granth Sahib.

Funny because according to everyone else the Mool Mantar is the defining verse regarding Sikh Philosophy, So much so that many people say that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is an explanation of the Mool Mantar. 

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The philosophy of Guru Granth Sahib is summarized by -

 Ek Krishnam sarb deva dev deva ta atma, atma Vasudevasya je koi janai bhev, Nanak ta ka das hai, soi Niranjan Dev.

Again that's your opinion. You need to stop presenting your stuff as facts.

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The Ardas also does not mention all the Saints who bani is recorded in Guru Granth Sahib, like Kabir ji, Nam Dev ji, Ravi Das ji etc and all the Saints who are revered in the bani like Prahlaad ji, Sudama ji, Valmiki ji etc.

Yes it does. When Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is mentioned, if their banis are within it then they are honoured too. 

I think all you're doing is nitpicking, looking for things to argue about and just trying to be argumentative. I'm not sure if its an ego thing or it's because you're bored but why does it annoy you that some Sikhs want to Honour Mata Ji?

I think the user @samurai2 is right, you seem to have a nasty habit of acting like you're a sarb gyani while everyone else knows nothing. 

12 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

In Guru Granth Sahib, Maya ji is the central Maternal figure. There are many references to Maya ji as Mother in Guru Granth Sahib if anyone reads it attentively.

You should write a whole Teeka then, its apparent no-one else has yet to read it as intently as you. 

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The Ardas also starts with Prithm Bhagauti simar kai, which is referring to Maya ji. So I would say that just about covers the Divine Mother.

No Bhagauti isn't Maya, If you ever venture out and look at the Arths done by proper Gurmukh Vidhants, you'd know its a reference to Akaal Purkh's Primordial Power (or a Sri Sahib), that power creates maya etc but it isn't maya entirely. 

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 These mothers played a far more important role in Sikh history than Mata Sahib Dewan.

Have you ever read any of Mata Ji history? She lead the panth after Guru Pita left for Sachkhand, she was issuing Hukamnamas for the panth, There's books about her Ithihaas too, Mata Ji did alot of seva for the panth. Dear Lord dude. What a nice thing to say about your mother. 

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Why isn't Mai Bhago ji mentioned in the Ardas? or Bebe Nanaki ji? or Bibi Bhani ji?

None of them were given the status of Mother of the Khalsa, That is a huge huge deal. 

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What about Mardana ji? or Bhai Gurdas ji? or Banda Singh ji Bahadur?

They are mentioned in Shaheed Singh and other Gursikhs lines of the Ardaas.

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Why isn't Raja Ram Chandra ji mentioned in Ardas? Don't we read in Dasam Granth that he is the father of Guru Gobind Singh ji?

Well you might, since its apparent you have selective reading glasses on most of the time. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's physical saroop (family) is descended from Raghu Vansh, Lord Ram falls into the same family but no he isn't the father of Guru Ji.

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 Why isn't Krishan ji mentioned in the Ardas?

He'd fall under those that helped the Panth too but that's subjective depending on who you ask.

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Ek Krishnam sarb deva dev deva ta atma, atma Vasudevasya je koi janai bhev.

The one sentence from Asa di Vaar that encapsulates the entirety of Sikh philosophy and the purpose of our existence, and there is no mention of it in the Ardas.

The Mool Mantar is what encompasses Sikh Philosophy. Taking a verse and then spinning it to your usual narratives doesn't make it so.  You seem to bring the same verses out again and again to promote the same nonsense. Krishna Ji wasn't a Puran Saroop of Akaal Purkh, There has only been one and that was in the form of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji. If you ever bother reading Dasam Granth Sahib (and given your above comment it's clear you haven't) you'd know this. That verse that you pasted here, its again a reference to Nirgun Parmeshwar, NOT Krishna the avtar of Lord Vishnu.

Your entire post is just use blowing your usual hot air and trying to come across as a self proclaimed "baba", no offence but OP here is discussing the Mother of the Khalsa, not the anyone else. All respect is due to the likes of Mata Nanaki Ji and Mai Bhago Ji but none of them were made the mother of the Khalsa and the Panth itself.  That as a status is huge considering Guru Ji treasured the Khalsa above anything else, so much so he wrote an entire ustat about it. This is about the Mother of the Khalsa. 

On 6/27/2018 at 5:48 PM, angy15 said:

No he has nothing to say abt the practices of his fellow  sikhs so all he is struck with  one word . If these videos posted are not Brahmanism ritualistic practices  what are these .You please study ancient Vedas and you will find these practices  

 

If you want a debate then define the words. I can say everything you're saying is Brahmanism, all you're doing is throwing words around as you dont have a leg to stand on. We're not asking for other people's definition, we're asking for yours. 

1 hour ago, angy15 said:

 I don't what you are talking abt.They have never spoken ill abt the contents and teaching of SGGS.

So you're fine if they speak ill about the writings of Bhai Gurdas Ji? or Sri Dasam Granth Ji (let me guess, the Dasam Granth was a Brahmin's rouse to lead the sikhs astray blah blah blah). 

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Regarding Dr Dhillion and other great scholars  ,its the usual faith of every scholars.Its not an exception but rule that scholar is  bound to be misunderstood  for a simple reason they are sometime far ahead of time.

"Great" Scholars is actually hilarious. You've yet to answer my question. You started talking about Science so tell me, if Guru Gobind Singh Ji appeared before you and said the world is flat and only 700 years old, what would you say?

Ahead of his time? What a load of nonsense. Texts dating back well before the british take over of the Sikh empire all state the same things as the texts written during it. The funny thing is Dhillon is so far up his own rear end he dismisses anything written prior to Singh Sabha that doesn't agree with him. That dude is about ahead of his time as the Catholic church was in medieval times.

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 If you guys hate them so much beacuse you believe they speak anti Gurmat then why not use that magic stick which Guru Har Krishan Ji used  on chajju Ram .BTW which sant/Baba has that magic stick?

The fact that you quoted this Sakhi (I asked you for the source of your version and im still waiting for it btw) and still don't realise that the stick wasn't magic because it was a magic stick but powerful because it was held by Guru Ji, is another sign that you have no idea what you're talking about. 

So...I'll recap for you since its apparent you lack the intelligence to read things and stay on topic. My questions are the following for you, please answer them as simply as possible (I'm sure that won't be too hard). If you refuse to do so, I'll take it you have no reply. 

1) What is your defination of Brahmanism?

2) if Guru Gobind Singh Ji appeared before you and said the world is flat and only 700 years old, what would you say? Would you say "Yes Guru Ji you are right" or something else?

3) The Sakhi about Guru HarKrishan Ji, please provide the source for your one. Thank you. 

4) Bhai Gurdas Ji said that in the presence of a congregation Guru Nanak Dev Ji melted into thin air and disappeared. Was Bhai Gurdas Ji making stuff up in your professional opinion?

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Satnam

That's is also Brahmanism as Brahmins used that phrase long before Sikhs.

8 minutes ago, angy15 said:

You please ask the missionaries what kind of  brahmanism you like to  hear abt.

no offence but @chatanga1 has been very patient towards you. You want to discuss Brahmanism that's fine, so the members of this forum will indulge you. In return we asked you to define what Brahmanism is, posting videos of Jhatka and other things isn't a definition. Put it into words, What is Brahmanism? That's all anyone has asked on this thread, yet you scuttle around the topic.

Again its apparent you either struggle to understand what is being asked or are purposely being dense about it so let's just be upfront. 

Define what is Brahmanism like a dictionary defines what the word "Planet" might mean. I'm sure you're capable of this since it seems to be your favourite word.

9 hours ago, angy15 said:

Veer ji benchmark for approval is  Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Then according to you Amrit sanchar must be made up since its clearly not explicitly stated in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. 

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How does these  miracles provide any benefits to humanity

They broke the arrogance of Pandit Ji and as a result he realised he barely knows anything about his own text. I asked you to provide a historical source of your version of the Sakhi, preferably dated back before the time of Singh Sabha. Even in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji certain miracles are mentioned, Waheguru brought a cow back to life for Bhagat Naamdev Ji, the entire story is recorded in there.

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If miracles happen then science cannot happen. And as science has grown, miracles have diminished in exact proportion. The more science grows, the less and less are there miracles. If you go farther back you can find thousands of miracles happening.

No offence but Science isn't your Guru. If Guru Gobind Singh Ji appeared and said to you the world is flat, and we have no other planets in our solar system. Would you believe him? or would you believe science? Miracles haven't decreased, they're just less frequent as Kalyug goes on as no one has any spiritual ability at all, if any. Very few folk do. Science is great for explaining physical stuff, but Science also says God isn't real and out to prove it. 

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 Brahmans  offering ganga water  to their  ancestors live thousands and thousands of miles away." is also true and Mohammmad flying to the moon on a horse is also true.How is Guru teaching different from any other region .

Brahmins offering water wasn't a miracle, that was a ritual. Now you're trying to muddle the two, firstly let's go back to my original question, the one you conveniently ignored. 

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 Bhai Gurdas Ji said that Guru Nanak Dev Ji melted into thin air and went to a far off world with the son of Pir Dastigir, he came back with Prashad from there and then gave it to Pir Dastigir.

^ would you agree this happened as Bhai Sahib noted it down, or are you going to accuse him as well of exaggerating or outright lying? 

9 hours ago, angy15 said:

You are sharing  my opinion which  i am again again presenting in this thread. 

Its a clash between two  ideologies.

 

Except one Ideology has no actual leg to stand on. Before you start accusing me of being a Taksali, I'm not. I've learnt from a whole host of sikhs with different beliefs and systems. Ideologies would be people like Udasis, Nirmalas, Nihangs etc. Missionaries aren't any of these because its all been conceived in the last 20 or so years. They have no actual lineage in sikh history and outright hate doubt anything that makes them uneasy. I have no problem with people like Udasis, Nihangs etc, I don't agree with them fully fyi but I do respect them because unlike missionaries they've studied contemporary sikh sources and actually formulated knowledge from them even if its not what I believe. 

8 hours ago, angy15 said:

Certainly not with a magic stick as described in various sakhees .The actual sakhee is Chajju ram was  from lower castes who were forbidden to read and learn.But Guru Nanak’s open door policy to everyone helped these mythical lower caste groups to get knowledgeable by following Guru’s teachings.they were no longer deaf and mute in the society.Inserting Magic band and putting on his head this is Brahmanism stuff.

Then please present the source, preferably written before the 1900s which says this. Bhai Gurdas Ji said that Guru Nanak Dev Ji melted into thin air and went to a far off world with the son of Pir Dastigir, he came back with Prashad from there and then gave it to Pir Dastigir. Would you say that Bhai Sahib Ji is lying there and full of "Brahmvaad" keeping in mind that Guru Arjun Dev Ji gave his approval to his vaars?

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Well I guess this forum is not quite open to healthy debates and opinion   .It has an  ideology which is associated to certain sect (maybe taksal )  and intolerant to others  .

because we don't latch onto your view point? This might come as a shock to you but there's alot of people here with various different views, people debate and then keep going.

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 You want me to understand and view Gurbani through your perceptive and if not then you put allegations that i am a  missionary and even attack pracharaks who does not tow your line  that is shamefull and that is not Sikh Sidhant .

Ironic because the person you seem to vouching for has no Gurmat gyan. He's never touched a single Puratan text, let alone anything remotely close to bani, he pulls things from his proverbial ass so to speak.

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 But no one has a copyright on Sri Guru Granth Sahib .Every individual has a freedom to approach Gurbani without  believing the  sidhants of any particular taksal or missionary.

So when a Hindu follower decides that Har in Guru Granth Sahib Ji means Vishnu Devta, Ram means Ram Chandar and the entire scripture is praising the Devtas is fine? Again no one's discouraging anyone to approach Gurbani but you should do it with some sort of background from it, atleast sit down and read works from the times of Guru Ji, learn from them and don't dismiss them as "Brahmvaad". Don't sit there reading a translation and then deriving nonsense from it.

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 Guru Granth Sahib has to understood within its framework and not associate it with stories,sakis etc.This is not our Guru intended to do.

That again is nothing more than nonsense. There's references to various stories about bhagats like Prahlaad, slaying of demons, events that occured in Guru Ji's own human time on earth (Priest Kalyug etc). You do need to know these to even have a small chance of understanding what's being said and in what context.

8 hours ago, angy15 said:

What are you upto . The Sikh Rehit Mayada has to be one irrespective of any instituions.

 

No it doesn't. There's various different ways of life, standardising it would be doing what muslims have done and that's worked so well for them right? Clearly no-one has raised any issue regarding their Sharia right?

You seem to hate Taksal but the fact that all traditional institutions (this includes Taksals, Udasis, Nihang Singhs) have all had a mutual love for one another and aren't trying to scrap away each other's traditions. That only seems to be a problem to missionaries who are more obsessed with re-writing or ignoring anything they don't like, its rather funny how Missionaries seem to think that for 300 years Sikhs have had no idea what true Sikhi is, but some self proclaimed "Doctor" suddenly had an epiphany while on the toilet and now true Sikhi has been revealed.