palm_w1

thanks for the post Asha, a real eye opener, i never knew of some of the stuff listed. I will expand on some of your points later. And yes it was true that the USer Govt took innocent American citizens of Japanese decent and through them into concentration camps. why the extinction of japan, would they have killed civilians as well? worrying i guess that makes it ok because they have a bigger military arsenal than any nation in the world and do actually use its military machine to attack other nations. Hence it is the greatest power in the world, quite easy to follow really. Just biggest it is the biggest power doesn't necessarily make it morally right. errrr, let me think, money and standard of living. You get massive immigration attempts from developing countries, you don't neccesarily get such huge population movements from developed countries. perhaps it is because it is a futile excercise in defending the indefensible no thanks, the reason i set this thread up is so that people can see the truth, not for it to be hidden away in private.

i'd say islam is definately growing the fastest.

greetings earthlings they call me the ayatollah

boombaklat i knew u wud b 2 thick 2 understand, read between the lines. hence i put 'if u don't understand . . . . . . .' neway boombaklat i don't know if u follwed the links (that was why i posted them). i didn't assume anything, u asked for evidence so i posted the links to a trustworthy news source showing a USer firms desire to build a gas pipeline to tap the massive hydrocarbon reserves in the ex-soviet satelites. look forward to your responses (need something to laugh at during the day!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3821485.stm this in my eyes is an example of israeli terrorism. they first murdered a british student helping kids cross the road. when british MP's came on an investigation they started shooting at them to terrorise them into leaving and not investigating the previous murder. as per usual the official israeli line is the palestinians did it.

the first terrorist action from the USer Government i will highlight is the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. It is rather ironic that the US goes around telling everybody off for having nuclear weapons blah blah blah while they are the only nation to have actually used nuclear weapons to murder. This is even more ironic when we take into account that the logic is that other regimes are to unstable to have them, once again only 1 country, the US has used them to attack. Nagasaki and Hirsoshima were two large cities in Japan which had military encampments on the outskirts of the city. Rather than dropping conventional bombs on the military targets the USers dropped nuclear bombs on the cities, wiping out in seconds lakhs of innocent civilians. Within 3 seconds the US regime had wiped out entire families, little children at school, pregnant women and old people out for their daily walk. I ask why did they do this? Simply to terrorise the japanese govt into surrendering. In my view this was one of the most heinious and wicked crimes committed, conciously taking the decision to murder all those people. more US terrorism later . . . . .

try asking the residents of abu gharib whose terrorising them. it would only be morally justified if bush went in to help the iraqis, but he didn't, he went in to help himself to the oil. Also let me expand, when i say bush, i mean the bush regime, and he is doing it to consolidate americas grip on the world's oil supplies; not really for his personal profit. as for assuming things then providing evidence on things i assume. that would be hard as assumptions tend not to be based on evidence, hence the term assumption (if u don't understand this don't worry) And regarding the oil pipeline, i was wrong, it is actually gas: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2017044.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2541793.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2608713.stm

yawnnnnnnnnnnn, u guys are well boring, such predictable responses. if there is anyone here who knows how to debate please step forward. not high on sukha i am afraid as the USers sprayed my crop with paraquat in their war on drugs! i don't doubht the US tries to work in its interets although it spectacularly fails and creates way more terrorists than it kills by its restrictive policies. Also some of its self interest is of a terrorist nature in my opinion (and yes i am applying the term terrorist to nations, in the footsteps of the great Chomsky). And no i don't class all americans as terrorists, i know some really cool americans, but the current USer regime is terrorist, a regime that u guys elected in to represent u. also why does the USer govt have to commit terrorism to further its goals, countries like Sweden, Norway, Finlad, Icelnad etc seem to become rich industrialised nations without having to kill thousands of people.

attention all America bashers, please deposit comments. seriously though, i get the feeling there are many ignorant people here who think america is a great world saviour, so lets discuss it properly. I think that america has done a lot of good, but it has also done some serious evil throughout the years. i don't think many people know of this. I will try and post regularly my views on why america is terrorist (workload permitting). For now, can some1 tell me why america is not terrorist.

thats quite a sweeping generalisation, especially considering bush has just classed islamabad as a 'Major US ally'. Perhaps u shud pass on ur secret intelligence to him, seems like the rest of the US agencies aren't doing very well. no legitimate cause!?!?!?! palestinians had lived there for hundreds of years, then some jews come in and take over, kill thousands, declare a country, kick them out, terrorise them for decades and u say they have no legitimate cause!

I think your last assertion is a little extreme, perhaps u could provide evidence of your ramblings regarding the father murdering his child. If the IDF attacks somebody knowing they will kill innocents it is a terrorist act, simple as. Also the IDF is well known for attacking civilians, shooting little children who throw stones at them etc. Also its a bit rich calling them the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces), i think the ITF, Israeli Terrorist Forces is a more apt name. Look at how they tortured prisoners in southern lebanon, currently do in palestine, illegal occupation of golan heights, kidnapping the likes of vanunu etc etc. perhaps u shud check ur sources better, israel is recognised by hardly any of the countries in its region, and most other western countries only recognised it when they had economic stakes involved, e.g. britain and france over the suez canel. the US's major interest is the American Jewish vote. why not? the US govt vetoes any resolutions trying to stop israeli terrorism so they don't have to hide it. And the irgun did openly blow up the king david hotel where they murdered 91 people, the israeli govt grow up out of these terrorist organisations. Also i must profess ignorance to arafats lineage, could u pls show me some evidence he is egyptian. because the american govt is stopping medical aid and food getting to innocent people resulting in deaths. i believe this is terrorism. if u look at my first post i simply ask what do people define terrorism as, this is my definition. hell yes, don't u? bush = :twisted:

i'll b there to watch these films

i think beast is right, if we had gone to war with iraq/afghanistan to free the people of oppressive rulers it would have been morally justified, however if u replace saddam's terror in iraq with bush's terror you haven't really helped the populous out. another fear in the back of my mind is that both wars were conducted for $$$$$$$. Afghanistan is needed for an oil pipeline to the sea so the americans don't have to rely on the russians for pumping out oil from the ex-soviet sattelite countries. iraq obviously has its massive economic advantages to bush.

I agree Hamas is a terrorist organisation as it has attacked and killed many civilians. However i point out that the Israeli Govt does the exact same thing and kills many palestinian civilians, carrying out air strikes in populated areas knowing they will kill civilians. Also the way they knock down palestinian houses at will, this is destruction of property and I think should be classed as terrorism. As for the LTTE they recruit child soldiers as young as 12. Is this a form of terrorism, breaking into the homes of the people they purport to protect and taking their children away to fight in their wars against the Sri Lankan Govt forces. I definately agree with Guv, trade sanctions can be a form of terrorism. Why is the whole cuban population being deprived of commerce just because their rulers decided to become communist? The US embargo has created massive poverty there. Also is the fact that they have a communist government enough to justify the embargo? Why does it affect america, the cold war is over.

Ozzy B never admitted to the attacks, he just said he supported those who carried them out. Personally i think even that statement is pretty mashed BUT doesn't prove he did it. Al Qaeda have always admitted to other attacks they carried out, like on the USS Cole and the bombings in africa on US embassies. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't admit to 9/11 if they had done it, not like they were trying to make friends in the US govt. Regarding Iraq's WMD's, looks unlikely they have existed for a while, i think even the US administration have seen that now. How would Saddam get rid of them AFTER US occupation? The americans ran the country so they must have known about it, if as the article claims they were shipped out even after the war was over.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorism I would like to know what people think about terrorism? What is it? How do you define it? what are the boundaries, e.g. if i petrol bomb guv's car over a car parking dispute is that terrorism? Does it have to be against governments? The loyalist paramilitaries have been labelled terrorist but didn't really try and coerce any governments. Can one commit terrorism against a military target, or does it have to be civilian? i have heard the iraqi insurgents who attack american military targets described as terrorists, can this really be? The definition above says 'unlawful' use of force, how does this work across international boundaries? does the UN have to authorise force? Can countries commit terrorism? against one another? or against its own people? would like to hear your views, thanks.

to be honest i am still to see any credible evidence that Al Qaeda carried out the attack. then again i am not privy to US intelligence, but I am pretty sure if they had any hard evidence they would produce it. seems that what was 'suspected' has become a reality. iraq obviously had nothing to do with it, bush just needed to finish his dads work and needed an excuse, as people were still raw and emotional about 9/11 & al-qaeda(!) bush created the link to justify his war.

We can try and overcome our ignorances based on nationalistic prejudices Rupy u assume that Bush can communicate at the level of humans, everything he says is gibberish. You were supposed to laugh at that but never mind, it was meant to humourosly (excuse spelling, i am feeling like Dubya) show that Bush is an extremist and carries out terrorist actions.

sup chodus. this thread is well entertaining, I can't believe how dumb some Americans are, you guys are blinded by nationalism so much it is beyond funny. Its as though it is impossible for America to do anything wrong? Was Bush born with a halo above his head? Can he do no wrong? How did u guys manage to elect such an idiotic and uneducated person as a president, my dog has a better grasp of english than he has. I think doggie should stand as the next republican party candidate for president. America has been responsible for way more innocent deaths across the world than Al Qaeda ever has. In fact Bush is such a terrorist that if he was Muslim he would be heading Al Qaeda instead of Ozzy B. For some entertainment and serious comment check out my website: www.geocities.com/palm_w1 click on news and/or comment. Nationalism is a disease and stands in the way of the peoples of the world becoming more integrated. Countries are artificial constructs to prevent human integration and nationalism is a way of keeping people dumbed down so they don't question.