Maha Singh

The funniest thing about Jatt pride in the west is, how hardly any of them have knowledge of Kehti Baari, wouldnt know the difference between Chowna and Kamaadh but still go ranting over their Jaat. I even came accross one individual who was saying "Jatt Is King" lol.

BLAD DAT WOZ SIKK YO!

-

The term Chatka Gatka was actually coined by Baba Gyana Singh. If you go through Sri Dasam Darbar you will see how weapons arts are called many things, such as AyudhVidiya, BirVidiya and Shastarvidiya, the name is regardless, what matters is its execution. Tony no one wants you to accept the views of Niddar Singh. I train in Shastarvidiya because I enjoy it, gives me physical excercise, if i found a sword art which was as technical and complex as Shastarvidiya I would learn that too, regardless of if it was a Philopino, Japanese, Western or European art. The fact that it deals with Indo Persian weapons and is taught from a Sikh presepective is just a bonus. I couldnt care less about its history, whether it was really ancient or not, I have spent yrs training in it because I admire the art of swordsmanship

You can order a copy from Chattar Singh Jeevan Singh. www.csjs.com

The quote is available on that ik13 library. If you open up the volume on Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj and go to the Bhumika, scroll down to page 22 you can read from there. In the Bhumika Gyani Ji explanis the halaat (circumstances) of the current period. Could you cite the RSS website where you claim that Niddar Singh lifted his quotes from. Fateh

Apologies, Yes thats what I meant lol.

The opening page of Sri Sarbloh Granth

Let us know what you thought.

The Chakri is actually a south indian "weapon" and was introduced to the Punjab by traveling bazigar in early 1900s as a circus act. It was originally used by the South Indians to distract war elephants by lighting the ends on fire and spinning it infront of them, as they got close they would throw the Chakri ontop of them, setting them on fire. By the times of the Gurus, the introduction of muskets and high quality armour peircing lances disregarded the use of such tools. To stop the spinning of the Chakri, you just need to put an obstacle infront of it and it will just become tangled up.

If all Sikhs by virtue should know Shastarvidiya or some form of Martial Arts, what has happened to it? The quote above from Gyani Gyan Singh shows that by the late 1800s Shastarvidiya was beggining to disapear fast. Due to the nature of having to dedicate so much time to the learning of various arts, as Raag is a specialist artform which would be learnt by Raagis, there would also be a hierachy in terms of warriors. Singhs who were not part of formal armies and lived a sedentary lifestyle with families would be enlisted during times of need by the Akalis. In terms of skill, the grishti singhs would have enough skill to take part in battles, knowing formation fighting and understanding how to keep ranks, however they would be no where close to the vanguard warriors whos role it was to smash the ranks of the enemies. The Akalis and Nihangs would be dedicated armies who would sacrifice their lives towards the art of war, learning and teaching other Singhs to build up their numbers. Singhs who showed potential of becoming Bhujangis would be enlisted fulltime if possible and would be taught the higher skills of swordsmanship. The Akalis would be on the front lines with a "ring fence" around the grishti singhs when engaged in battle to protect them. The average Singh would be there to make up the numbers whilst the skills of the Akalis would be enough to break through ranks and start killing. As the Akalis smash through the ranks the other singhs would sweep up the fallen enemies, trampling them under foot and smashing their heads with clubs, axes and maces, normally swords were not given to lower skilled warriors. If you read texts such as Baba Tegha Singh, which is an interview of an old veteran warrior by Kahn Singh Nabha, you will see how much difference a single vanguard warrior can make to a battle.

The Guru Granth Sahib is a guide to spiritual enlightenment, not money management. Common sense dictates that if you have bad money management through excessive loans and high interest, you will end up in financial trouble. If you cannot afford something then save your money up and buy it later on, unless you can get it at 0% interest I wouldnt even bother buying anything.

Please elabortate on how his ideology has changed, what did he say before and what does he say now. Shastarvidiya can be adapted to modern weapons no doubt, even when Muskets were introduced to India the Singhs became masters of them. In the Akhara we have learnt how to disarm guns, and some singhs practise at firing ranges. But above all, Shastarvidiya is based upon the mastery of how to weild bladed weapons, learning how to fire a gun, or string a bow or even drive a tank (!) is not as complicated and intricate as swordsmanship, while the previous can be learnt reletivily quickly and sharpened through repitition of aiming and shooting, swordsmanship creates a multitude of variables which can only be learnt through years and years of training and experience. I used to be a keen archer with a club, when i got competant at it i stopped practising and put my focus back into Shastarvidiya as all archery takes is repitition to get groupings. Those who have a good nishana can quickly get their eye and aim back to speed, whilst neglect of swordsmanship quickly deteriates your skill and comes takes a very long time to get back to that level again. Your more likely to be attacked in the street by soemone with a knife as you are likely to have to get in a tank and start launching shells.

There was talk of such a science of archery and stick fighting only a few years ago in the Punjab that listening of it the English-educated young men will consider it astonishing. In sincerity I believe present day young men might just consider these skills and Shastar Vidiya most likely impossible, because they have not even seen those bows never mind stringing them. Like this, many sciences and skills after attaining their heights have declined. Before 1857 many quivers full of arrows, matchlocks, flintlock guns, swords, lances, spears, Sang (long metal lance), Kata’s (punch daggers], Peshkabz [armour-piercing Afghan dagger), pistols, shields etc., weapons, armour and many types of chainmail was found house to house, and all the people in their homes learned and taught Shastar Vidiya and became complete soldiers. now no one even speaks of these skills the sons of brave warriors are becoming engrossed in making money, even to us who have employed Shastar Vidiya, it is becoming a dream. In another fifty years or so, this Vidiya would have dried up and people will say it (past skills) were but, all lies’ (‘Twarikh Guru Khalsa’, Giani Gian Singh Nirmala (1899) Vol.1, Pa. 36-37)

If your promoting a Shagird of Baba Gyana Singh, the Dhada Gurdev of Niddar Singh, then something must have gone wrong in the transfer of the vidiya between Baba Mohinder Singh to Niddar Singh. If your OK with the vidiya of Baba Gian Singh, you must be ok with the vidiya of Niddar Singh, with the bone of contention being with his Sanatan ideology only? Correct me if im wrong. Niddar Singh learnt his philosophical ideology, traditions and maryada from Baba Mohinder Singh, so either Baba Mohinder Singh was a rouge who taught "dodgy" maryada or Niddar Singh (who started learning from young age as a mona with little knowledge of Sikhi) warped the teachings of Baba Mohinder Singh and added the Sanatan idology himself. Or, both Niddar Singh and Baba Mohinder Singh teach the ideology which has been passed down from Gurdev to Gurdev. Please tell me what you believe to be right. BTW Lets not confuse ideology with rumours which spread over the net. Do you know how long Baba Gian Singh learnt from Baba Gyana Singh?

If that is Baba Gian Singh they have confirmed themselves to Niddar Singh that they have basic knowledge of the vidiya, althought he knows of the Mahakaal Kalika and Sarabkaal pethreh he cannot do them. I will viist Raqba to confirm this and see how much the Baba knows Is there anyone else?

I would have agreed with you if other traditional arts such as Raag were not near extinction either. Before the recent boom in learning Raag Vidiya how many Sikhs would you say new the full vidiya and played pure tanti saaj? Of those how many know Drupad? How many people in the world have knowledge of playing intstruments such as the Rabab and Saranda? 1? 2? a handful? It is easy to lose arts within a short period of time, all it takes is a bit of complaicancy which Sikhs are experts at! Times of peace, laziness and lack of kadar has been the reason for many traditional arts to die away.

There were Nihangs such as Baba Raam Singh and Baba Ranjit Singh whos audio interviews I have, and they confirm that what Niddar Singh learnt from Baba Mohinder Singh is the same vidiya of Baba Gyan Singh. The same principles, strategies and were confirmed to be the traditional Vidiya. If you want to believe that Gatka practised by the Nihangs is the real deal martial art of the Khalsa then go ahead, but those who know Shastarvidiya will quickly tell you which penthra Gatka grew out of. What Gatka represents is a poor skilled facet of the complete vidiya, nowadays most practitioners have become devoid of any neeti, mental and physical and have resorted to pure stick swinging. Nihang martial arts of today is completely different to what Nihang martial arts of the past would have been, puratan singhs would have battle tested their vidiya, they would have trained day in day out and spent hours contemplating their art of warfare. Many people have claimed that there are Nihangs who know Shastarvidiya but no proof has ever been shown, If there are any Nihangs nowadays who know the full vidiya then let me know their name and where they are based and I would be happy to go learn from them as I will be visiting India soon.

Apologies as I missed out the history inbetween. It is believed that Guru Nanak passed the Vidiya onto Baba Budha Ji as you state, however the art itself was around prior to the Gurus, unless you believe that the first person to ever pick up a sword was Guru Hargobind? As I mentioned earlier, there will be a series of books which will cover the history of Shastarvidiya and how the Sikhs became the custodians of the art.

What is the new history?

tony, you say that you have no opinion on the utility of the art taught by Niddar Singh, is this because you have never seen it in person, or you believe it to be effective? If you feel that it is effective and your only quam is the history that is taught alongside it, then im guessing you feel that it is the genuine fighting arts of the Khalsa? If not, how do you come to this conclusion? Those people who have been practising it for a number of years and have had exposure to the higher penthras, rank breaking, formations and skirmishes will no doubt accept that it is genuine and effective, however those who doubt the vidiya should allow their doubts to be cleared. At the end of the day, the Akhara is an open environment with open doors for anyone to come in and begin training and ask questions. There is no hush hush secret society and from day one everyone is taught the same thing. There is no restrictions on jaat paat gender race and colour, if your dedicated to put the time and effort in to train then you are more than welcome. No one is forced to become a Nihang, keep their kesh or become a Sikh, the Akharas sole aim is to revive the Vidiya amongst the masses, even though only a handful of students will ever get to Bhujangi level, at least people will know this Vidiya exists and can continue to keep it alive for generations ahead.

Kalyug, The term Shiv Akhara refers to the belief that the development of the Vidiya can be traced to ancient Shamans, Pashupatis, Kapilkas all attributed their fighting arts to the influence of Shiva. As time went by this vidiya was picked up by the Sikhs, which then became formalised within the Guru Hargobind Runjeet Akhara, and then into the Baba Darbara Singh Akhara, one of many akharas of the time. This will be elaborated in Niddar Singhs series of 10 books based on Shastarvidiya coming out later this year. The reason for the "Shiv Akhara" name to be brought out is to stop certain individuals associating their name with the Akhara and the Vidyia. Due to their aversion to anything "Hindu" that should stop that.

Classes are as follows:

No one is selling anything.

Here is another news clip from Russian TV Channel NTV http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/170614/