amardeep

The Mina tradition eventually died out during the 1800s - I dont think it was a competitive strike at Guru Granth Sahib but rather an indication of Sikh supremacy in literature and influence.

It made me think of this shabad: ਰਾਜਾ ਨਿਆਉ ਕਰੇ ਹਥਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ The king administers justice only if his palm is greased. ਕਹੈ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੩॥ No one is moved by the Name of God. ||3|| ਮਾਣਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ O Nanak, they are human beings in form and name only; ਕਰਣੀ ਕੁਤਾ ਦਰਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਨੁ ॥ by their deeds they are dogs - this is the Command of the Lord's Court.

The Sarkuvatali Granth has been translated by Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi Nirmala from the UK. He is currently translating the Chanakya Niti from the Guru darbaar.

Gurfateh check out this online store of nirmala writings! http://www.jsks.biz/Books-Buy-Online/Vedanta-Philosophy/

I think the point the minister is trying to give the king by this tale is: Just as the Raja in this story has been reduced to a position of an animal, - so too have you been reduced in your status as a king. Instead of being engaged in royal and governmental duties (as kings are supposed to), you have engaged yourself in trivial drama involving your own family and dynasty that you are about to destroy..You are reduced as a king - the dirt of this world is being thrown at you and you are eating it

very unlikely

Dasam Granth has many references to Kama Sutra literature, - Akal Ustat comes to mind. And the Kama Sutra writings were also translated in the Guru's darbaar.

No because it is from the early 1800s

Also note in the Zafarnama how the Guru scolds Aurangzeb for blindly following his advisors who were misleading him and giving him wrong information about what's going on in punjab.

not at all. It's from the early reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. It belongs to the Mina literature. It's heavily influenced by the style, vocab and meters of Guru Granth Sahib. I've seen it referenced in writings on how the Guru Granth Sahib influenced Punjabi literature and sacred writings outside the Sikh fold

Awesome point!!

Good thing to see you Papiman opening and looking through these old charitars also.. Maybe the earlier charitars start to make new meanings the further you go into later charitars.

Nope i've never read it but seen references to it now and then-

Lol looks like somethings never change!! This is from Nirmal Panth Pradipika from the late 1800s by Giani Gian Singh where he laments that the Nirmalas who used to not even take a small piece of land when offered by the maharajes, - now they are fighting each other in court cases over the land they are taking form the raje.

The stories might be inspired by historical events that did happen, but they have not been written in their exact historical form. Contrary, there is poetic and dramatization embellishment all around. If I remember correctly, the heer ranjha in the Charitro Pakhyan is also very different from the other versions prevalent in Punjab. The same goes for the Chaubis Avatar where the different translations of each avatar do not correspond to that of the original sanskrit. The Ramayan of Dasam Granth is different from the original Ramayan. This is not an error that has anything to do with authoorship. The purpose of the Charitro Pakhyan is not to relate history - it is to provoce discussions on governance, warfare, ethics, morals, responsobilities of rulers etc. etc.

I don't think there is anything historical in the Charitro pakhyan. Not the indivial charitars, nor is the frame story of the minister and king. As we have seen in the last many months, - the minister is trying to convey to the king not to kill his son and end his dynasty, by provoking him with different stories relating to governance, culture, morals and ethics.

See this: https://books.google.dk/books?id=7YwNAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA179&lpg=PA179&dq=darbari+das+pothi&source=bl&ots=Ar6phnksrb&sig=LtRXTOZrkmVN7kdmcy1Orok9RSM&hl=da&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOq86U8d7WAhXiQJoKHaaZBiUQ6AEIUTAL#v=onepage&q=darbari das pothi&f=false

He probably meant 1676.

A prominent metaphor for Dharma in Indian religions is that of an ocean (saaar roop). Dharma makes you cross the ocean of existence. So in this regard - I have lost my dharma after seeing you

Meet Jagmeet Singh: Sikh lawyer, martial artist and new NDP leader Singh says his fashion sense helps disarm stereotypes about Sikhs with turbans and long beards By Peter Zimonjic, CBC News Posted: Oct 01, 2017 3:34 PM ET Last Updated: Oct 01, 2017 3:58 PM ET Jagmeet Singh, the first turban-wearing Sikh to sit in Ontario's legislature, will now lead a federal political party with his victory in the NDP leadership race on Sunday. Singh, 38, won on the first ballot Sunday, taking 53 per cent of the vote to top MPs Charlie Angus, Niki Ashton and Guy Caron. Singh has represented the riding of Bramalea-Gore-Malton at Queen's Park since 2011. The unmarried MPP served as the Ontario NDP party's critic for justice and consumer services before party leader Andrea Horwath named him her deputy in 2015. Jagmeet Singh wins leadership of federal NDP on first ballot 3 lessons from races past as NDP prepares to name its new leader A criminal defence lawyer who speaks fluent French and Punjabi, Singh was born in Scarborough, Ont., in 1979. Singh was raised in Newfoundland and Labrador while his father, who trained as a psychiatrist in India, attended medical school there and worked as a security guard before he could practise in Canada. His family moved to Windsor, Ont., when he was seven years old. Learning to fight http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jagmeet-singh-profile-biography-win-1.4315780

Why did the puratan saroops carry the dates of the jyoti jyot of the Gurus?

What an interesting read! Indic terminology and then proceeds to Islamic content!

Can't remember. Read it some 8 years ago or something

It's mentioned in a Mughal source from the 1600s. I've never seen any Sikh source mention it.. See Irfan Habib's "sikh history from Persian sources"

I'm not sure where it happened, but most likely in Delhi yes.