chatanga

if youlisten to the speeches of Sant jarnail Singh Bhindranwale during morcha you will hear about on his travels when he went to a village where there were lots of namdharis. They initially resented his presence but after the taksal did a diwan there Sant Jarnail Singh invited the Namdharis to Mehta to do kirtan and said we will honour you with siropa. Dont know whether it ever happened , but the taksal are not anti-namdhari as a whole.

ask drawrof , he knows a lot about these things.

To be honest, akalisodhi you are chatting breeze if you think that no-one bows down to those who died in the past centuries. Dont we bow down to the memorial of Baba Deep Singh at Darbar Sahib, or the funeral place of all the sikhs at fatehgarh sahib where over 7000 Sikh died to conquer sirhind? or the gurdwara of Bhai Moti Ram who's family was killed because he did sewa of Guru Ji. How manymore do you want? On the shaheedi divas of the sahibzade people turn out in their thousands to commemorate the shaheedi , have you never seen it akalisodhi? I must keep it simple, as i am a simpleton, and complex arguments are of no use, when the point i am making is simple. Is this complex enough for you? chatanga

No Satguru Fateh Singh... becasue not everyone thinks of riduculing everyone all the time in thier hankaar like you do...SIkhs go on fields trips to various gurdwaras all the time to do good deeds like kar sewa, read Path and do Naam Simran, learning about their history and providing Langar to everyone etc.. u obviously have been too busy being sad, and full of yourself to do any of that and cannot even hold a conversation without using ur low-class clownish jokes of directly insulting others' respected figures... what a moron.. u and those like yourself should go jump in a well.. its ppl like u that give ppl material to make 'Sardarji' jokes . We were there to learn about our history . the bloody history of 1984, and so were many other Sikhs , so why do you think that we should not be angry and sad? Why should we be happy? Look at your typical response to this post. And when I say soemthing that you dont like, you feel it dont you? Are you the only human here, and the rest of us dont have any feelings for our own or other peoples pain? Or sympathy for people who's lives were afected because of indirasur's hatred? Were you sad or angry after reading the massacre of namdhari at malerkotla? or should i say that you lot got what you deserved? The govt of that time said you were terrorists then so should we call you terrorists? Are you or your people terrorists Satguru Fateh Singh? chatanga

yes but the way you portray field trip like we were all going for a fun day out. The " field trip" was so that as many of the youths who know little about this and how it still affects many people would have some understanding of what hapened in 84 and how it still afects us now. I could go on a field trip to Bhaini and you would think i was going for a picnic with Bhai Jagjit Singh wouldnt you?

Satguru Fateh Singh it wasnt a field trip or a fun day out. What i saw and heard made me feel really bad. I wouldnt want it to happen to me and I wouldnt want it to happen to you either. Thousands of people have suffered and many continue to do so. To mock thier suffering is to invite durbhag for yourself. But for your information there were a few guest speakers who made a really presentation on the suffereing of the Sikhs since 1984. Ridicule, Satguru Fateh Singh is not something that Bhai Ram Singh told you to indulge in. And as the new holder of the gurugaddi of Bhai Ram Singh I say Bhai Ram Singh is right.

cant hear anything, but Sant Ji looks good with his boonga dastaar.

Ravan Sena doing what they do best and the Ravan hakumat doing what they do best as well. Thank Akal I live in Uk and not under barbarian rule. Surounded by compters.

Xylitol, if you read the post which started this topic you will understand what im getting at. I am totally against alcohol and its promotion. I used a taksal steek to do a presentation on alcohol and i was reprimanded by the comittee of the gurdwara for doing so. They were saying that the gurbani i used and its translation by Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale was wrong. So i have asked for the views of the members of this group. PLease enlighten me on which shabads explicitly forbid alcohol in Guru Granth and Dasam Guru Granth plz. For me the line i used is proof enough but I still want to make sure that I have not in any way mislead the sangat with my presentation. chatanga

Apologies brother for making u think this a windup, I am deadly serious though, as this is an issue over whether I have myself mislead the sangat or whether people who stand to gain from others drinking alcohol are correct in thier interpretation of gurbani. However from the above posts I think that I have recieved the answer somewhat to my original question.

is it as simple as that?

so if someone drinks alcohol physically and on a sustained basis is this quote applicable? would that constitute durmat?

"If there's one thing I've learnt its that you can learn about 0.1% by asking questions about Nihang Singhs on forums. Khalsa Ji you must go and live amongst the dals in panjaab to find out these sakhis ....." If I turned up at any shouni and asked if i could spend a week there woudl I be allowed to stay with the dal and observe them?

Drawrof you are a naughty boy. ok n30 lets have your opinion on this matter anyway. The word durmat in what some of the others are saying would include more or less everyone but the mahapursh in its category. So if the majority of the world falls into this category or even half the world are there enough prostitutes in the world to make this true?

cos that is pretty far reaching and almost everyone but the mahapursh would be included in this group, and I would be the husband of 2 prostitutes.

"metaphorically, doing anything that is conducive to durmat is to 'drink' that which brings durmat...." so could doing anything evil/ thinking anything evil, hearing slander, etc all be classed as durmat? chatanga

can you give me anyexamples plz vinegar of what would constitutue durmat?

thanks for that info kirpa karo. that verse actually talks about alcohol and the effect it has on a person ie madness enters and wisdom departs, so is this the same as gurmat departing and durmat entering ? also the taksali translation of durmat mad jo peevte... is "those that drink that which brings durmat/madness into the mind they are/have the status of a man who's wife is a prostitute. " this above is the translatiuon i used and the comittee have now forbade me to use this pangati, which i have agreed to, in any future presentations. They were saying that the above translation as given by taksal is not correct. Others have posted that durmat mad is not refering specifically to alcohol, but i still get the feeling that the taksal interpretation is a valid one altho it can be one of many interpretations. Das will value any Gurmukhs help iin the above. And does anyone know what has hapned to Vijaydeep Singh? chatanga

so is Gurmat Mad refering to amrit or naam as an eternal nasha, as durmat mad is refering to the opposite ie the nasha whichs only lasts a while and is of no value?

Sant Jarnail SIngh Bhindranwale, and Bhai Ram Singh....hmmmm, there maybe was a time when many poeple thought these two mahapurkhs would return but I personally dont think that either of these two are gonna return, as we expect them to return, but maybe in the army of the Khalsa that wil establish khalsa raj on the world as told in Dasam Guru Granth Sahib.

can anyone explain what is the wine of evil mindedness?

" durmat mad jo peevte bikhli pat kamli! is a line in gurbani by Guru Arjan about alcohol. The translation i have used for this comes from sikhi to the max, and also a Taksal steek. I used this translation on a screen at my local gurdwara and the pardhaan went mad after he recieved complaints. PLesae can you offer your or any Gianis tranlsation of this please, as I 'm gonna be up in front of the firing squad ie the alcohol selling/drinking comiittee members. Time is of the essence here. chatanga

yes you are right, i couldnt rememebr which was which but i think you are right. apologies.

there are so many versions of sau sakhi that differ on many points, hoever what has been said aboce seems to be true. rajo gun = shiva tamo gun = brahma sato gun = vishnu these are 3 guns which the Khalsa should collectivley possess. Gur ishar(shiv jee) Gur gorakh(vishnu jee) Brahma Gur parbati mai as it says in the Japji Sahib is refering to these 3 guns.

hopefully all of them. Sri Akal Sahai.