laalsingh

Was it god or goddess? Must be mom. Dads are careless and give a damn about kids. Give us more details. Sangat is curious. Some people can tell gender of LIGHT, you can do better. Kalijug ji, you are absolutely right. These incidents are just SIGNPOSTS and weak ones take these as final destination. Beautiful post (and experience).

ਐਸ ਪਿਆਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਜਰੂਰ ਦਿੳ। ਲਾਲਾਂ ਗਿੱਟਿਆਂ ਤੱਕ ਆਈਆਂ।

I don't think people come to any conclusion by debating. ਵਾਦ is of no use. But readers looking for answers can draw conclusions (right or wrong) by reading the posts. Debates on forums are better than debating live. Live debates are won by better debaters, not by truthful ones, but in online forums debaters does not have this advantage (it still happens sometimes, like people try to drown truth with long and off the topic postings). Even though with fake names, members show their real faces. "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. " Continue the fun.

Good point. Panth is Guru roop for temporal decisions and whole panth (except ghagga panthis) agrees on 5 banis.

Whole pasara of Waheguru is a miracle. Every flash moment these mortal eyes can see and limited buddhi can comprehend is a miracle, though there are infinite dimensions like this, which I can't even dare to think about. How He run things from minute to grandest scale, is a miracle.If a devi appears or image of Satguru Nanak appears in front of me or another sense opens with grace of Waheguru, would be just another miracle. I am already 'wow' looking at His leela.

I did not read rest of the post. It is not what 'we people' thinking, it is what Guru is saying. Listen again. Vishnu, Krishna, Fish, Tortoise etc are kritam names (no disrespect), not true name. There is One Karta and rest krits. 3rd time from same shabad, you keep on posting. ਕਿਰਤਮ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਜਿਹਬਾ ॥ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਪਰਾ ਪੂਰਬਲਾ॥

Now we all agree on devtays. That is exactly what I am saying. Devteys and avtars are pieces, not whole. You are alright. (except Devi stuff you got from that hindu sant).

Gurmukho, please discuss. Would you change your convictions if you come across a miracle/experience or see a dream of devi/pir or whatever? Isn't Gurmat bigger than miracles or some experiences? Note:Some people do not believe in miracles or experiences, so they should stay away from this discussion.

So that is where you had experience with devi (as you mentioned in another post)? I think this is a important subject. We need another thread. Question is, would you change your convictions if you come across a miracle/experience or see a dream of devi/pir or whatever? Isn't Gurmat bigger than miracles or some experiences? Some people do not believe in miracles or experiences, so they should stay away from this discussion.

Perfect. That is our beloved One. But how it ends up being multi arm lady riding tiger?

For a Sikh, it is Guru and God. There is no place for demi-gods or physical Krishnas. I agree that One who is pervading all is Parbraham is called Jaganath Gopal. Is this of any particular significance? Gopal is one of infinite kritam names of Lord. In your previous posts Devteys and avtaray are not false. But they are not gods either, as there is only One God. There is only one Karta and rest is His Krit. Karta is not apart from His krits, that does not mean individual krit is Karta Himself. As you said, As a feature 'being dark-skinned' can't desribne greatness of Krishna, similarly any of the avatars or whole lineup of Vaishnav avatars can not desribe Lord. As you said, Another thing and Harjas ji, there is only One Karta. All these miracles were performed by Him only (in His different forms). Then why we are debating that these miracles are performed by mortal Krishna?

Harjas ji, you are great in rest of the post. But isn't Krishna the One in Vaishnav mat? Same One is Shiva in Shaivitism, Allah in Islam, (thougth not mentioned in Gurbani, Jesus in Christanity). Shakti is power of this universe, but He is power holder or creator of this creation (including Shakti). As you said, Guru Granth is boad of mukti. Shakti is the power, holding this illusion in place (of course by Lord Himself). So if you want mukti, why worship Shakti?

Harjas ji, I haven't read your essays in full, but other devi bhagats on this forum seems to be very convinced. People from every background with different religious practices are fully convinced with what they are doing. Ask a Hindu why they worship cow, he will write a long essay. Ask Muslim why they eat halal cow, he will give some very convincing reasons. You and other devi bhagats (Shaktas) are somehow convinced that devi puja is as per gurmat. But I take my directions from SGGS, not long essays written by somebody. You can't find anything in SGGS which says devi puja is worth anything. On the other hand, SGGS is full of shabads where devi (laxmi or shakti) is shown as maya (and in a bad light).

He is also Pakistanis and Chinese. You are worshiping maya (picture of tiger lady), but why not Pakistanis and Chinese?

To make it more clear, divine mother( or Shakti from SGGS) and Bhagauti from Khalsa perspective are same or different? Is Shakti or Devi as per SGGS worth worshiping? To be more clear, Are you meditating on Shakti or Shiva? Please be concise.

These were long posts. I might have missed it. Was there any answer to it?

Bani of Shaikh Farid for that lucky ਛੈਲ ਲੰਘੰਦੇ ਪਾਰਿ ਗੋਰੀ ਮਨੁ ਧੀਰਿਆ ॥ ਕੰਚਨ ਵੰਨੇ ਪਾਸੇ ਕਲਵਤਿ ਚੀਰਿਆ ॥੪॥

Some asshole wrote it (like he was there when guru took feem). Now you are proving to be bigger assholes posting it on net, spreading guru ninda.

Exactly, but you want to worship Shiv or Shakti? Very good, now that's the Devi of Khalsa. But don't mix it with Shakti or Laxmi or Maai by quoting Shabads out of context.

Read the whole Shabad, Gurbani on power of Lord. ਬਸੰਤੁ ਹਿੰਡੋਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੨ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਨਉ ਸਤ ਚਉਦਹ ਤੀਨਿ ਚਾਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਹਲਤਿ ਚਾਰਿ ਬਹਾਲੀ ॥ ਚਾਰੇ ਦੀਵੇ ਚਹੁ ਹਥਿ ਦੀਏ ਏਕਾ ਏਕਾ ਵਾਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨ ਮਧੁਸੂਦਨ ਮਾਧੌ ਐਸੀ ਸਕਤਿ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ How He is being called Allah and turn of Muslim divines has come. ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਉ ਅਲਹੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੇਖਾਂ ਆਈ ਵਾਰੀ ॥ Tax is being charged on temples. ਦੇਵਲ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕਰੁ ਲਾਗਾ ਐਸੀ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਚਾਲੀ ॥੫॥ Muslim practices are here and Lord appears in blue form. ਕੂਜਾ ਬਾਂਗ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਨੀਲ ਰੂਪ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ ॥ ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਮੀਆ ਸਭਨਾਂ ਜੀਆਂ ਬੋਲੀ ਅਵਰ ਤੁਮਾਰੀ ॥੬॥ If you wish so (putting Muslim ruler in place), what power do we (mortals) have? ਜੇ ਤੂ ਮੀਰ ਮਹੀਪਤਿ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਉਣ ਹਮਾਰੀ ॥ ਚਾਰੇ ਕੁੰਟ ਸਲਾਮੁ ਕਰਹਿਗੇ ਘਰਿ ਘਰਿ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੀ ॥੭॥ Pilgrimage, reading Smirtis, donations are very small as compared to Name of the Lord, even for moment. ਤੀਰਥ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਪੁੰਨ ਦਾਨ ਕਿਛੁ ਲਾਹਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਦਿਹਾੜੀ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਮੇਕਾ ਘੜੀ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲੀ ॥੮॥੧॥੮॥ Now what this Shabad has to do with Devi worship?

ਮਃ ੩ ॥ ਸੋ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜ+ ਭਗਵੰਤੈ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਇਕਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਣੈ ॥ ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ॥ ਐਸਾ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਉਤਮੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੨॥ Bhagauti here is Bhagat and Bhagwant is Lord.

Full shabad ਆਸਾ ॥ ਹਜ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਗੋਮਤੀ ਤੀਰ ॥ ਜਹਾ ਬਸਹਿ ਪੀਤੰਬਰ ਪੀਰ ॥੧॥ ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਕਿਆ ਖੂਬੁ ਗਾਵਤਾ ਹੈ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੇਰੈ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵਤਾ ਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Company of Holy men on banks of Gomti, singing His names, is (like) Hajj for Bhagat ji. ਨਾਰਦ ਸਾਰਦ ਕਰਹਿ ਖਵਾਸੀ ॥ ਪਾਸਿ ਬੈਠੀ ਬੀਬੀ ਕਵਲਾ ਦਾਸੀ ॥੨॥ ਕੰਠੇ ਮਾਲਾ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਰਾਮੁ ॥ ਸਹੰਸ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੈ ਲੈ ਕਰਉ ਸਲਾਮੁ ॥੩॥ ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵਉ ॥ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਦੋਊ ਸਮਝਾਵਉ ॥੪॥੪॥੧੩॥ Where is this Shabad telling us to worship Bibi Kavla, who is slave of Lord?

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Simple and short. ਯਹ ਮਾਤਾ ਦੀ। I don't worship mythical creatures. My shakti is Sri Sahib hanging by my waist. Sri Sahib will help me in need, not some pretty lady riding lion. Shashtra is Shakti of Khalsa, and will help only if you use them, not by worshiping. This is the devi pargat by Dasam Pita. Hindu brothers were worshiping them for over a millennium, instead of using them.

A weak being is being punched and robbed by attackers. Does a Sikh should think before jumping in? Average person can reason that one had small kid and family to take care of and he should stay away from these kind of situations. But Sikh of Guru is deewana. Deewanay don't do calculations. They can't miss a chance to do shubh karman. I hope this becomes a habit for every citizen of Sikh nation.