ipledgeblue

are you asking if mukti can only be obtained by belonging to a religion, or being amrit shak?

no where did u get this supriority stereotype from? look i meant saying jatt is against them, therefore i say it, simple as that. no superiority involved, after all, for them being sikh or even amrit-dhari is superior to other human beings such as hindus, and also some of them have their superior jatha amrit that is superior cos it gets them to sachkhand lol i remember the last speaker they had at brunel in boss sikhi month. He was trying to make it look like other religions can only go to a heaven and only sikhs can get to sachkhand. He also did some drawings using lines to show this haha of course his story changed when some kali in the audience questioned him. Also they have been selling autoiography of bhai ranbir singh at these events and on their site. kind of makes it obvious what kinda sikhi they follow lol

because jatts also have annakh, izzat and bravery, or can you disprove this? "Just curious London da Jatt, but why do you do Maan in being a Jatt?" because i feel like it, i do hope no-one has a problem, it also helped me to get away from extremist boss sangat, and from being brainwashed by them. As a jatt, i can stand up and not listen to people trying to force their brand of sikhi on me. Being a jatt is totally against their brand of sikhi, i feel like a rebel and loving it, and one has to follow sikh tribalism to follow their sikh"ism".

so you are tolerant with someone's maan in their jaat? i know the administration wasn't a jatt monopoly, but i was talking about caste tolerance, what were the views before SGPC?

lol yes i watched that video long ago.

not at all. i have red the quotes many times. well mcleod is also saying that the sanatan leaders didn't practise all the various traditions themselves but tolerated people doing them. Is this the case now, or are leaders now trying to force their own views onto people? The thing about the castes, I am sure views were different even in harmandir sahib and Akal Takht before the Tat khalsa singh sabhias and SGPC peoples took over.

‘The Sikhism preached by the people such as Khem Singh Bedi and Avatar Singh Vahiria is difficult to envisage today, so comprehensive has been their defeat by the Tat Khalsa. For them Sikhism tolerated variety and upheld the right of Sikhs to participate in folk religion. Caste was maintained and idol worship was tolerated. There were different forms of marriage for different castes and different rituals could be practised by various members of the Panth. All manners of customs, such as those involving astrology, horoscopes and incantation, were acceptable. Visits to the sacred shrines of Hindus and Muslims as well as those of the Guru’s were entirely approved. Sanatan leaders might not follow these customs themselves, but certainly they were prepared to tolerate them in others. They were part of the immense variety which characterized the world they had known and the world they hoped would continue. All this was anathema to the Tat Khalsa. Sikhism could not possibly be as broad and as tolerant as Sanatan Sikhs believed.’ ‘Sikhism’, by Hew McLeod, 1997, Pa. 77 ‘One time the complete being [Guru Gobind Singh] said these words: “In a hundred years my Panth [Khalsa] will reach adulthood. As adulthood increases and [Panth] matures, many are the vices that are found. Which vices? All castes will force their way into the Sikh nation, even the Malesh [filthy]. All the bad people will force their way into the Sikh nation. They will look like Sikhs but their actions will be of thieves, deceivers and Malesh. To look at, they will be Sikhs but, their actions will be of evil with the forbidden five [5 cults, ie. the Dhir Malia, Ram Rais, Masands, and Minas]. Those, cutting their hair who have become apostate [from the Khalsa faith] will have relations, and believe in the five Pirs [Muslim holy men]. Not trustworthy, misers, known as slanderers, evil persons, highway men, Guruless, speakers of evil words, etc., such [characters] in appearance they will seem as intelligent wise Sikhs”.’ (‘Rehitnameh’, Piara Singh Padam, Pa.121-122) interesting blog: http://kamallarosekaur.wordpress.com/2008/...f-jatt-descent/ besides shouldn't we be talking about bhatra sikhs in this thread? http://www.bhatra.co.uk/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhatra http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bhatra

if i have broken any rules, i will answer for them

well maybe its the type of questions and sarcasm

ok in that case we should be humbled to be human first and i like using incomparable examples, are they perhaps politically incorrect?

well, I would definetly say that the misls and Maharaja Ranjit Singh were pushed by sikhi as well to fight the tyrants. But I also wouldn't deny kingdoms belonging to jatt kings that were never sikhs.

yes it includes them as well

maryada or kanoon or whatever, most families have one, well indian ones anyway, i dunno about more modernised families.

apneh, like punjabis. and you are against all discrimination? Are you against discriminating against people who believe in caste as well, or do you believe in discriminating against these people? Do you discriminate against people who don't have the same beliefs as you? And yes I do believe I am not going against Guru Ji. Otherwise, it would also be going against Guru Ji to big oneself up as khalsa singh or sikh!!

well if grizti jeevan is ideal then why do nihangs live in the dal? Also not just nihangs, but why do udasis also live an ascetic lifestyle? Telling us we can't be jatts is sticking your nose into our family affairs, why don't you just make us wear yellow arm bands like talibans did to non-muslims, just for going against your "no jatts allowed" rule?? Well I'd like to see someone wearing massive dumalla armed to the teeth with weapons and also carrying a big rifle, or massive khanda trying to do an office job or some oyther jobs I can think of?

Well to be honest i think we should be proud to be humans 1st! Also about vicitmisation, I see being told not to call myself a jatt also as a type of victimisation don't you think?

"Tut tut... avoiding my simple and clear questions, what a shame, we could have had some fun and reeled out the Nazi in you. " lol you wanna bring out a nazi in me eh, well keep on trying eh? because believe me, I don't believe in a one pure race theory, and instead in mulitculuralism hence being able to call myself jatt without worrying about not belonging to some politically correct "pure" race. "Thats quite funny, I know Jatts who could easily be mistaken for Africans and Gorai! Regarding Dalip Singh, what a perfect example of the fairytale genetic theory - whatever happened to his Jatt maryada and Jatt genetics when he was living it up as thoroughbred genteel in Norfolk as Maharani Victorias favourite!! LOL." well you tell me what happened to it? And whats this about genteels, because i didn;t get the joke . well u tell me when a jatt in the pind is gettin annoyed and gets his gandasa/kirpan/bandook out or tries to run a tractor over whether he is jatt or not lol. better stil i'd love some1 to go to the pind and say that to their face "u can't call yourself jatt cos blah blah and so and so..."

they did bring somethin to humanity, i never said they didn't. they started this matt of course. But they didn;t create a tribal religion or anything.

gangster, I would say sikhi is just a continuation of dharma. Definetly, sikh panth was created, the bani, you know their unique style of worship and sprituality. But Gurus didn;t create any new religion as such taht was called sikh"ism". Guru Nanak promoted spiritual equality, that we are all the same spiritually, we all have the ability. But end of the day we are all human beings, and we should recongise this, and Guru Jis definetly didn't make a religion as such to separate us from everyone else. The SGPC however didn't do this, and put sikhs into the religion mentality, even going as far as denying "other" types of sikhs, ie ones that didn't fit into their tat khalsa. So, if anyone, they woul dhave used the sikh"ism" term. But the panth existed before, sikh panth began with Guru Nanak, bhakti movement stared before this, and dharma has existed much before than even this.

well i would love it if this site or a similar one could be popularised like sikhsangat. BEcause here you at least get to learn historical knowledge, not just push anything down someones throat. The downside is when sikhawareness randomly goes offline now and then for periods of days and maybe weeks? I reckon a lot of people are lost due to this,and people probably end up on extremists sites instead due to thrist for knowledge. I wouldn;t be surprised if one of those sites ended up with someone blowing up a mandir or indian embassy, because I have seen people become wackjobs. Also since the other sites are on blacklist, do you reckon its wise for me to have an account on sites liek sikhsangat, because i am slighlty worried?

well people are always going to make themselves into groups. Pretty sure sikhs have grouped themselves. Then people have group themselves into countries as well. So no matted how mixed people get people are always gonna group themselves for whatever reason, hey even football teams are groups, I see it illogical for groups not to exist. Andon top of that, I think humans should be diferent and expand as individuals, with their own strengths and advantages. Well if not as jatts, you would at least be able to recognise Ranjit Singh's offsprings as apneh if nothing else, because I am pretty sure no-one is going to go and mistake them for africans or goray are they? I am not against intercaste marriages, I think if people want to they should. But as far as I am concerned my Gurus only married into their caste or even varna, into kshatriyas only, so I do not see what is wrong with me marrying jattis? This is not going against my Guru, so its all good. I will tolerate intercaste marriage if you'll tolerate same-caste marrriage in return. Also I tolerate people not following caste but I wouldn't mind if they tolerated another person's views who happens to believe inb caste as well? Is this not a good sikh, one who respects another person's views, or do some people follow a different sort of sikhi where everyone else is wrong ?

well khalsa rehit, well if someone wants to follow this full time they of course go live in the dals. But if you want to live in family and civiliastion, then you have to follow the rules of the family and government, you have to go to work and school. If I wanted to just follow khalsa rehit and disregard otehr rules of course I would just go live in the dal, you know become a true ascetic khalsa fauji, why live with family then?

Well about genectis, I am sure if you keep marryin people with similar traits you offsrping also gain genes from the parents. For example have you ever seen a child have similar features to his/her parents/grandparents or even other relatives? Don;t need to experiment on this cos its pretty obvious. well about jatt maryada, i am not enough of an expert as say someone from the pind would be. Best way to know how jatt behaves is to actually go and see a traditional jatt, especially in the pind. All I can say is we take great pride in maintaining annakh and izzat. We are also open hearted. But theres differences in punjabis even from location, nevermind caste; such as doaba, malwa and majha.

well i think we need a sikh site mixed with the amounts of knowledge put sikhsangat but with the unbiased tolerance of sikhawareness. For me, sikhsangat is something I use for fun basically to annoy extermist peoples lol Damn I have fun on there, making them build up pent up rage on sikhsangat. They can't even handle chatka meat and chatka pictures on that site. They aren't that nihang friendly on there. Also I heard that they're pro AKJ. Also I see a lot of hatred towards hindus on there.