chatanga1

51 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Was there a reason for them doing that other than her being a women?

She sent the military into the frontier to curb the talibs activities and paid the price.

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

We should stay out of the kalyugi forces and in our own Faujs. Protecting our families and others families from predation. And prepare for a variety of future actions. 

Yes. Sikhs are unabel to defend themselves from the tidal cesspit that is the indian state, why direct our energies in places where we will not make any neglible, if any difference at all pre and post outcome.

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

 

Really we should operate more like the cia. 

Do you mean in intel gathering?

20 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Tell me more. What happened with her? I don't know?

Assassinated by the Paki Taliban.

Bhutto caused the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands of Sikhs as well, giving the Indian govt information on those Sikhs who had gone to Pakistan, and enforcing their return to India.

The Sikh Federation relased this on Twitter, of how an indian poilce officer in the MET was gathering intel on a Sikh protest in London.

On 2/1/2022 at 12:02 AM, HSD said:

The Taliban probably saw the paks as useful idiots. They’ve needed the pak airforce to deal with Panjshir and supplies for their infantry but they look down on Punjabi muslims. Historically, Afghans have always seen Punjabi muslims as some sort of colonial subjects. With all the gear left by the Yankees and the new Islamist friends they have, the talibs probably do think they have a chance at taking Peshawar back.

The Talibs see the paks as backup as and when they need it. But whats just so absurd is that the Pak government or even the ISI thinking they have some kind of sway of hold over the Taliban. The Pak government gives the tribes huge amounts of money to placate them as well. The tribal agencies are self-governing and they do not care for the desires or demands of islamabad. They only look to islamabad for neccessities like medicine and oil/gas etc. The Pak govt has tried several times to placate them with allowing the introduction of sharia law in the agencies but the talibs have always pushed and pushed, until the pak government then fights back. This has happened some 3 or 4 times over the last 2 decades.

I read this book recently, its great for its detail and worth the £2.20 I spent on it lol.

On 1/31/2022 at 1:43 PM, HSD said:

This video purportedly shows islamabaddies shooting pathans in NWFP who sided with the bakrichods recently. The dead look like ordinary civilians to me. The security situation in the region is deteriorating steadily. 
 

 

Thats a very old video. It was from around 2007-10 when the Tehrik Taliban Pakistan under the Masoods took over districts in the frontier province.

On 1/22/2022 at 11:53 AM, Premi said:

Don't have it in the catalogue, neither is it affordable to buy...

The same book is £25 from amazon Uk https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/8189487892/ref=nosim/booksprice-21

Although I was a good boy and went to Panjab to buy it, where it cost some 3 or 4 pounds I think.

If you want to buy books best place is Amritsar, Panjab for the range and price. So many people go to Darbar Sahib when they go Panjab but never think of visiting the book stores across the road.

I was talking to an Iranian friend and she was telling me about an Iranian celebration called "Charshanbe Soori."

I looked this up and the original story is featured in Firdausi's Shahnamah. It's identical to the root story of Sri CharitroPakhyan Granth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siyâvash

Iranian knights discover a beautiful young woman while on a hunting trip, a favourite pastime of the army hierarchy. They cannot decide on who should possess her for his own pleasure, and a major dispute erupts between them. Finally, they decide to take her to the Shah, Kay Kāvus, for his judgement, but the Shah decides to keep her as his own concubine and Siyâvash is the result of their union. However, as Siyâvash's mother is not an aristocrat, the Shah decides to send him to Rostam, the ultimate hero of Iranian mythology, for training in the military arts.

Rostam instructs the young Siyâvash in the arts of riding, archery, hunting, conduct and speaking the truth, these being the fundamentals in the Acheamenian system of education - as reflected in the Shahnameh on several occasions. After several years of instruction, Siavash asks Rostam's permission to return to Kay Kāvus's Court, so that he may prove his worth as a young prince.

At first, Siavash is well received at Court. The ladies swoon over his youthful good looks, while the men are impressed by his mastery of the arts. The Shah even appoints him Ruler of Ctesiphon, the ancient capital of the Parthians (now situated near Baghdad). The Queen, Sudabeh, develops an instantaneous, and all-consuming sexual desire for the young prince, and starts a series of plans to entice him to enter her chambers. She praises Siavash in front of the Court, and invites him to "visit his sisters," and become better acquainted with them. Siavash is not impressed with this proposal and suspects an ulterior motive. The Shah, well-aware of his own queen's connections (she is the daughter of the Shah of Hamavaran) insists that Siavash listen to his "mother" and visit his sisters. In her chambers, the Queen organises a magnificent reception for Siavash . He is seated on a throne, expensive perfumes are lavished upon the chamber, and the ladies sing and dance for his pleasure.

The Shah decides that Siavash should marry one of the ladies, and orders him to choose one immediately, but Siavash refuses to do so, sensing his father's plans for a political union under the guise of marriage. The Queen can no longer control her desire for Siavash. She proposes to have her husband, the Shah of Iran, murdered so that she and Siavash can rule together, but he absolutely refuses to have anything to do with her. Queen Sudabeh realises that Siavash might reveal her plans to her husband, resulting in her certain death.

 

She orders one of the witches in her service to find 2 aborted foetuses and place them in a dish. She then runs to the Shah, ripping her robes, screaming, wailing, and crying. The Shah is deeply disturbed by the sight of his wife, bloodied and in tatters. The Queen accuses Siavash of raping her. She provides the aborted foetuses as evidence of his violence towards a "pregnant" Queen.

The Shah is devastated by the news, but listens to Siavash's plea of innocence. He first smells Siavash's robes and finds no sign of seduction or perfume upon them. Then he smells the robes of the Queen and finds them laced with the most exquisite of perfumes: a sure sign of seduction. Nevertheless, he imprisons Siavash, and orders that hundreds of beasts of burden be used to bring fire wood. A gigantic mountain of fire is set alight in front of the Palace, and Siavash is ordered to ride through the blaze. If he is innocent, he will emerge unscathed, but if guilty, he will surely perish. Siavash, armed as a cataphract, covered in (sacred, but highly inflammable) camphor and wearing a white cape, the symbol of innocence, mounts his faithful black steed and charges straight into the vast pyre. The Court holds its breath, as he disappears among the flames, but shortly afterward, the white knight and his valiant black war horse emerge from the fire unscathed and victorious.

Kay Kavus, the Shah, orders the immediate execution of the Queen for bringing shame on his name and kingdom. Wise and sober as ever, Siavash begs for clemency. He knows that the Shah loves his wife and will soon regret her passing. Not long after, the fickle Shah might even accuse Siavash of orchestrating the whole fiasco. The Shah is reminded of the Queen's royal connections, and the importance of his treaty with the Shah of Hamavaran. He relents, forgives his wife, and peace is temporarily restored to life at court.

Siyâvash and Afrasiab

 

The second part of the Epic of Siavash is dedicated to his separation from his homeland, his unjust treatment at the hands of his own father, Kay Kavus, and his ultimate execution.

Afrasiab, the tyrannical ruler of Turan, a mythical land north of Iran, declares war on the Iranians again. Kay Kavus decides to make an example of Afrasiab's allies in the City of Balkh, and plans to invade it, but is dissuaded from personally attending the battle field by Rostam, the ultimate hero of the Shahnameh. Siavash volunteers for duty, and is immediately sent towards Balkh, and certain war.

On the Turanian side, Garsivaz, the ruler of the Bulgars joins forces with the Tatars under the command of Barman. The intense battle results in a crushing defeat for the Turanians who are captured by Siyâvash. Disturbed by ill-omens in his sleep, Afrasiab dreams of his own defeat, and upon hearing the news from Balkh, sends horses, armour, and swords, suing for peace. Garsivaz represents Afrasiab at the peace talks. Siavash agrees to keep one hundred hostages and the return of lands taken from Iran by the Turanians in return for peace. The cities of Samarkand, Bukhara, Haj, and the Punjab are returned to Iranian rule while the hostages are taken into custody by Siavash.

The Iranian Shah is disgusted with Siavash's behaviour, because he had hoped that Afrasiab would be killed in battle. He writes a letter to Siavash at the height of his fury, and orders him to return home, while assigning Toos as the new commander of the Iranian forces. He also demands the transfer of the hostages for execution. The letter goes against everything Siavash had been taught to do by Rostam. Breaking a peace treaty, declaring war, and murdering hostages all sicken him. Siavash knows that he is incapable of these tyrannical acts requested by the Shah, and sees no option but to abandon his homeland and seek refuge in Turan.

Siyâvash in Turan

 

Despite exile, Siavash is determined to find a new life for himself in the land of Turan. Afrasiab, the Turanian Emperor receives him warmly, and Peeran, the Grand Vizier, provides him with solace in his first few days in a foreign land. Eventually, Siavash falls in love with and marries Ferigees ("Curly Locks"), the Emperor's daughter, thereby sealing his new attachment to life at the Turanian Court. Delighted with the marriage, Afrasiab bestows the county of Khotan (now in Xinjiang, China) onto the bride and groom. Siavash sets about creating a new city, called Siavashgird, or "the round city of Siavash", and Gong ("Giant") Castle. However, Siavash's sudden rise to favour at the Turanian court causes much jealousy amongst certain of the knights and dignitaries, who wonder why the Emperor's daughter had been given to the prince of Iran, a foreigner and their sworn enemy. Garsivaz, foremost among the disgruntled few, sends secret messages to Afrasiab, proclaiming Siavash "a traitor," in view of his "letters" that had been sent to his father in Iran, Shah Kay Kavus. He also convinces Siyâvash that Afrasiab is plotting against him and will soon invade Khotan to reclaim the land bestowed upon him.

Soon, the impetuous and egotistical Turanian Emperor mobilises against Siavash, and defeats his small army. However, Siavash manages to help his wife, Ferigees to escape with Peeran, who ensures that Ferigees reaches Iran, where her son, Kay Khosrow will grow to become a wise Shah who eventually restores order.

Siavash is dragged before Afrasiab, who orders his execution by beheading. Peeran implores the Emperor not to commit the horrendous mistake of killing the innocent: "Do not make thyself a flag upon this Earth." The hot-headed Afrasiab ignores the warning and the execution is carried out swiftly. As Siyâvash's blood reaches the ground, a plant grows upon the same spot and is later named "Khune Asyavushan," or the "blood of Siavash." This line in the epic ties the story to the early links between the name "Siavash," and his role as the spirit of vegetative growth.

The news of his execution causes uproar in Iran, and, to this day, is still commemorated in Shiraz as the day of Savušun. His tragic death, as recounted in the Shahnameh has inspired hundreds of poems, essays, songs and stories in Iranian literature, among them Simin Dânešvar's groundbreaking novel Savušun, which has the distinction of being the first novel to be written in Persian by a female author.

Siyâvaš in Central Asian Zoroastrianism

Before the Islamization of Central Asia, the inhabitants of both Khwarazm and Sogdia performed sacrifices and other rituals dedicated to Siyâvaš. According to the historian Tolstov, "Siyavash was also venerated as the Central Asian god of dying and reviving vegetation."^[3]

On 7/2/2021 at 6:06 PM, dalsingh101 said:

Guns were available, but at that time they might have been harder to procure as mogs probably discouraged the ahhm populace from being shastar/ashtardhari or they were expensive? Look at Shastarnaammala, the biggest sections is on guns for instance.  As conflicts continued, I'm sure Singhs appropriated more and more of the weaponry left behind by the defeated foes; and as resources flowed to the Khalsa (from looting and rakhi payments) they could afford to buy their own. 

In this hukamnama dasmesh pita specifically seems to ask for horsemen armed with bandooks?

Plus I think Singhs were already getting a reputation for rifle horseback warfare prior to Ranjit Singh. I think they used them in dhai phat attacks/counterattacks. 

Great share Dal. Any further info on which region of Sikhs this was addressed to ?

The moghals had been using forms of canon and such, since Babur. I'm still not convinced yet that guns had become a norm by that time though. I haven't heard many instances in Sri Gur Panth Parkash of Sikhs using guns, but it would be interesting to see where and what time Bhai Ratta Singh Bhangu does mention them.

On 7/2/2021 at 6:14 PM, dalsingh101 said:

I've heard differently, that karad is a smaller handheld knife.

What we call kirpan was a 3 ft sword pre-British times. The British tried to disarm the Sikhs after 1849, and stopped them carrying swords, and instead limited this to a smaller dagger, which then became known as a kirpan.

18 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

I have heard that kard and kirpaan words are used interchangeably not only in Rehtanamey but in bani too. Will try to find the topic where I read.

Kard is basically what we call kirpan today, and kirpan used to be what we call talwar today.

On 6/15/2021 at 9:36 AM, paapiman said:

@dalsingh101@chatanga1 and others:

Do you guys know, if Panj Shastars are mentioned in any Puratan Rehatnama?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Can't remember where but the 5 shastars I have heard/read of are, Kard, Kirpan, khanjar, chakar and tabar.  Anyone have any differing views?

On 6/1/2021 at 11:59 PM, Lioness1 said:

Why would anyone care if theres water there or not? It doesn't matter. People who believe in rituals and superstitions care too much about details like that instead of focusing on whats important. 

Hold your horses a moment. You stated in an earlier post "Rituals and superstitions are not a part of Sikhi. Noone cares if theres a jug of water there or not and if someone does, theyre a fool."

To which i asked you "how is this pithcer of water defined as a ritual or superstition?"

You haven't answered the question unless your "Why would anyone care if theres water there or not? It doesn't matter. " qualifies as some sort of answer.

This is just giving your opinion without you explaining why you have come to this conclusion. So I would like to ask again why you feel this is a ritual or superstition.

On 6/4/2021 at 9:16 AM, KingTarunjotYT said:

Placing water should have no effect. it is not a sin to have water there to drink or something but if you are doing it for some magical powers or manmat bonuses then it is false ritual/ superstition.

Placing the water has no effect. It's the water that is itself affected.

On 6/4/2021 at 9:16 AM, KingTarunjotYT said:

Anti panthic forces keep making up stuff about how it stores 'magical' energy,

Who are these anti-Panthic forces you talk of?

On 6/4/2021 at 9:16 AM, KingTarunjotYT said:

 if that were true just leave a tank full of water next to speaker which is reading sri guru granth sahib and use that water for everything....

What about when the speakers are switched off during prayers ie Akhand Paath? How will it work having a tank full of water next to the speaker?

On 6/4/2021 at 9:16 AM, KingTarunjotYT said:

Many people are very gullible and fall for this

I was told that one of reasons that during amrit sinchaar that paath is done directly over the bata of water is because water absorbs sound. A quick search on the net has shown that a scientist did indeed look at this and has found it does. How does this make someone gullible?

On 6/4/2021 at 9:16 AM, KingTarunjotYT said:

 Rapist murderer cult leader ram rahim's dera sacha sauda has more dera's in punjab then there are villages in punjab. Hopefully we don't have any gurmeet ram rahim or dera sacha sauda followers/ apologists here because you would be supporting beadbi of sggs.

There are some 13,000 villages in Panjab. Are you saying there are more than 13,000 ram rahim dera's in Panjab?

On 6/4/2021 at 9:16 AM, KingTarunjotYT said:

 Hopefully we don't have any gurmeet ram rahim or dera sacha sauda followers/ apologists here because you would be supporting beadbi of sggs.

I hope that any followers of ram rahim who are here, are here to learn about Gurmat, and see where their "guru" gets all his knowledge from. But why can't we Sikhs here make the same claim against followers of dhadhri wala? That is also supporting beadbi of SGGS.

On 5/27/2021 at 9:08 PM, Lioness1 said:

Rituals and superstitions are not a part of Sikhi. Noone cares if theres a jug of water there or not and if someone does, theyre a fool. 

Why is placing a pitcher of water by SGGS a ritual or a superstition?