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chatanga1

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Everything posted by chatanga1

  1. Great share Dal. Any further info on which region of Sikhs this was addressed to ? The moghals had been using forms of canon and such, since Babur. I'm still not convinced yet that guns had become a norm by that time though. I haven't heard many instances in Sri Gur Panth Parkash of Sikhs using guns, but it would be interesting to see where and what time Bhai Ratta Singh Bhangu does mention them. What we call kirpan was a 3 ft sword pre-British times. The British tried to disarm the Sikhs after 1849, and stopped them carrying swords, and instead limited this to a smaller dagger, which then became known as a kirpan.
  2. I was thinking about bows and arrows, but wasn't sure if all Sikhs kept them, but do you think at that time there would have been enough guns for all the fauj to keep? I'm thinking at Guru Sahib's time guns were still something of a novelty and we really don't hear of widespread use of guns until Maharaja Ranjit Singh's times, almost a century later.
  3. Kard is basically what we call kirpan today, and kirpan used to be what we call talwar today.
  4. Can't remember where but the 5 shastars I have heard/read of are, Kard, Kirpan, khanjar, chakar and tabar. Anyone have any differing views?
  5. I still pop in from time to time, just to check up on the malechh here more than anything. Have been doing a non-stop listening to Sri Gur panth Parkash katha for well over a year now. Listening to this katha, I think its a shame that katha of this granth is not done in all gurdwaras as it is extremely inspiring.
  6. Just wanted to share this video. Please watch and give your views. I have a couple of things I want to share but I want to just research them first to make sure as it's been a long time since I read them.
  7. Well given that I was never here to "debunk" it, I still feel the same about it. I have the book, and it forms part of a larger book detailing the input of the Mazhabi Sikhs in the wider Sikh Panth. It is still a valuable source of information as a granth by itself. However the book... You're right Dal. The book is written by Niranjab Singh Arifi, a Mazhabi Sikh himself who has at times vilified other castes. His whole other work in this book is just a inflammatory jibe at other castes and denigrating their service to the Panth at the expense of his own caste. I read the first chapter on Sri Gur Katha, which includes a translation, but the second chapter by Arifi is just horrendous.
  8. Hold your horses a moment. You stated in an earlier post "Rituals and superstitions are not a part of Sikhi. Noone cares if theres a jug of water there or not and if someone does, theyre a fool." To which i asked you "how is this pithcer of water defined as a ritual or superstition?" You haven't answered the question unless your "Why would anyone care if theres water there or not? It doesn't matter. " qualifies as some sort of answer. This is just giving your opinion without you explaining why you have come to this conclusion. So I would like to ask again why you feel this is a ritual or superstition. Placing the water has no effect. It's the water that is itself affected. Who are these anti-Panthic forces you talk of? What about when the speakers are switched off during prayers ie Akhand Paath? How will it work having a tank full of water next to the speaker? I was told that one of reasons that during amrit sinchaar that paath is done directly over the bata of water is because water absorbs sound. A quick search on the net has shown that a scientist did indeed look at this and has found it does. How does this make someone gullible? There are some 13,000 villages in Panjab. Are you saying there are more than 13,000 ram rahim dera's in Panjab? I hope that any followers of ram rahim who are here, are here to learn about Gurmat, and see where their "guru" gets all his knowledge from. But why can't we Sikhs here make the same claim against followers of dhadhri wala? That is also supporting beadbi of SGGS.
  9. I don't know what you brothers feel about this but I'm very angry myself. On the one hand we are getting a 10ft statue of a Sikh in Wolverhampton to commemorate the Sikhs soldiers of the World Wars. The same World Wars the Sikhs gave their lives for, whilst being slaves of the British. The same British that 1 year after WW1 shot down over a thousand mainly Sikh crowd in Jallianwala Bagh. The same British that took the crown lands of Maharajah Dalip Singh by deceit and handed them over to the muslims and hindus of Lahore and Delhi. Right now, when we need the help of the British Government, to get justice in Jagtar Singh Johal's case, the British govt are doing nothing but lip service. Compare this to the recent case of Roman Protasevic, who was arrested by the Belarus Govt. In the House of Commons, Matt Hancock has announced that Belarus airlines are now banned from UK, and has warned Belarus Govt about torturing Roman, and Prime Minister Boris has warned Belarus of the consequences of their actions. No fighting words for Jagtar though, even after 80,000 of us lay down our lives for these people.
  10. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-55265286 image copyrightWolverhampton Council image captionThe sculpture is due to be unveiled in Wednesfield on the 124th anniversary of the battle on 12 September 2021 The final design of a statue to 19th Century Sikh soldiers has been unveiled as the last stage of work begins. The 3m-high (10ft) sculpture, by artist Luke Perry, is due to be erected in Wednesfield, Wolverhampton, in September. The clay model will be painted in wax before being cast in bronze. It commemorates the Battle of Saragarhi. Although little-known, it is considered by some military historians as one of history's great last-stands. During the battle on 12 September 1897, 21 Sikhs died defending a British army post from 10,000 Afghan tribesmen. image copyrightWolverhampton Council image captionOnce complete, the statue will stand 10ft (3m) tall Sikhs make up almost 10% of Wolverhampton's population - almost 23,000 people - and it has been an ambition of councillor Bhupinder Gakhal to share the story for decades. He said he was "thrilled" by the "wonderful memorial" and hoped it would encourage others to learn more about Saragarhi. Latest news and updates from the West Midlands It is due to be unveiled in Well Lane, near the Guru Nanak Gurdwara, on 12 September 2021, the anniversary of the battle. Mr Perry has previously made a commemorative statue to honour the South Asian service personnel who fought for Britain during World War One. That sculpture has been displayed in neighbouring Smethwick since 2018. "With artworks like Saragarhi I want to create sculptures that are a visible marker of the under represented but vital, real people in our communities," Mr Perry said. "Because when you represent people you empower them."
  11. This is something that should definitely be addressed.
  12. The essay I read said "differences" but I think these were mainly scribal errors. I agree with this 100%. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that either is done, although I do read raagmala myself.
  13. This line has been discussed a few times on this forum. Will try and locate a thread and add it here. Strict monogamy is not a core Sikh value. It never has been. Throughout the times, Sikh men did take more than one wife and there was never any issue over it. This change to monogamy happened when the British took over Panjab, and tried to enforce their marriage views on the populace. Sikhs and Hindus acquiesced whilst the Muslims didn't. I think Gyani Gyan Singh ji wrote that Guru Sahib married 4 wives who each brought a female attendent to the Guru's house as well. no bro. Don't know and possibly think there isn't one. The earliest source that talks about jhatka to my knowledge in Dhadi Nath Mal's Amarnama, where he details the Sikhs doing jhatka of Madho Das' animals in his ashram. Yes jhatka is done at Sri Patna Sahib.
  14. The nitnem i use to help shudh ucharni is from Dal Panth and Giani Rann Singh says "ਤੁਐਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ" as well. It's ok to discuss sensitive topics as long as we do it with respect and have the strength to acknowledge that others may not feel the same. I personally read Raagmala but have no problems with any Sikh who doesn't. Brother, when the SGPC began the process of studying the saroops of SGGS to begin the standardisation, from which to print from, they found that between the saroops they studied there were 570 differences. They did this exercise in the 1930/40s and arrived at the one they use today. So since that decade long study into SGGS, they came to what we have as the standard printed version. Now these mistakes were spelling mistakes from scribes which got repeated and repeated as these older saroops were copied from and so on. The SGPC studied these differences and came up with a common census on how the word should be spelled. So today if you compare the standard printed version to older saroops you are bound to find differences.
  15. Hey Bro, just a few words I'd like to add to this topic. If the RSS celebrate Hind-ki-Chadar Guru Tegh Bahadar Ji's shaheedi purb in the correct context, then it's good yes? (Mis)Quoting Gurbani has always been a major trademark of these Hindu organisations, and they will always claim that "hari/Ram/Thakur" etc are references to their gods. Our job is to counter that. To always stay active and one sep ahead. This same "Deh Shiva" was proof tht the Guru asked Shiv Ji for a boon according to a Sikh friend of mine. Let's start at home and educate those first. How did such an "opinion" become so "popularly spread" in the Panth? That's what you have to ask yourself. Maybe, just maybe because there is truth to it? The fact is that it wasn't just Guru Sahib who had more than one wife. Bhai Mani Singh aslo had 2 wives who gave birth to 11 children between them. These saakhis don't attack the character of the Guru in any way if they are understood properly. According to Sikh tradition, Guru HarGobind Sahib started jhatka outside Sri Akal Bunga after Guru Arjan Dev Ji's shaheedi. This practice was only stopped in 1940s by SGPC. The saakhi of Mai Bhago has been grossly distorted to claim that Mai Bhago was in Guru Sahib's presence all the time naked, when she wasn't. The first time she came to Guru Sahib's hazuri naked, Guru Sahib told her it wasn't right and told her to keep herself covered. But listening to cretins they push the story that Mai Bhago was always with Guru Sahib naked. The Devi Pooja story also finds itself in other texts as well but with differing stories. Maybe if you can locate a text or screen shot of the text we can look at it for ourselves here? And compare it with others? I also thought this at one time. This post was made in response to a post I made on Sikh sangat.com : "Kavi Bhai Santokh Singh Ji, was a poet indeed, but beyond that he was an immense vidhvaan of the Panth. He was a great scholar and theologian too, as is exemplified by his Japji Sahib translation in his Garab Ganjani Teeka. I would say Bhai Santokh Singh Ji also fits the mold of an historian. It was immense work and research he did compiling historical literature/records, recording oral accounts, visiting historical sites, and then analyzing all the information, scrutinizing it for accuracy, and compiling it all into the poetic masterpiece that is Suraj Parkash. He may even be the Panth's foremost historian!" This saakhi is found in Gurbilas Patshahi 10vi written by Kavi Koer Singh in 1741. This is most likely where Kavi Ji found this, but I'm with you on this one, I don't think there were 7 mahals. The texts from those times, all confirm the 3 marriages of Guru Sahib. I'm thinking that Kulbir Singh possibly thinks one, because he is afraid to answer to those who claim "equality" thinking a man should and could only have one wife. Yousee, it's very hard to explain multiple marriages without giving the impression that it was for adult purposes/wealth only etc. This is nonsense that has been disproved time and time again. There are 3 separate chikkas of all 3 mahals. How could the Sikhs just invent a chikka and raise a monument there with no-one questioning them? And another line which has been grossly distorted to try and prove something.
  16. haha you saw the arrows fired! The thing is, look at the opening lines of our saviours post "Many people on this forum are very misguided..." and on another topic he is asking other members if they have read Gurbilas P6 to comment because he sees reading it for himself as a "waste" of time. Do you remember the last person who posted a topic here, and then wouldn't reveal the source, until I found it, and then reading it for myself, saw that the OP had given a very gross misinterpretation of it? That's the dangerous thing. My guy wants us to spoon feed him information, without verifying whether it correct or not.
  17. Thanks for sharing that. It something that I've been thinking about recently seeing the situation of some relatives. May I ask, how did you start drinking, if it's not too intrusive?
  18. What's the histroy of this sword Dal? Who gave it to Maharaja Ranjit Singh?
  19. I hope you had read this thread before commenting but it seems that you haven't. This thread was about Gurbilas Patshahi Chhevin, but we only looked at the sakhi of Mata Kaulan in detail. That's one sakhi fro the whole book. Is that how you really want to introduce yourself on this forum? You are new here, and already showing yourself to be averse to learning the traditional way. You can find GP6 PDF on the net and read it. Reading is never a waste of time. I'm quite appalled that you would choose this forum of all forums, where in-depth detailed textual discussions take place for everyones learning, to state you don't want to waste your time reading.
  20. If you haven't read it all, why are you so eager to discuss it or to spread kala afghanas thoughts here? Wouldn't it be better if you read it yourself and then presented yours or afghanas thoughts? And if you are going to present these views then at least tell what page they are written on so others can see if there is any truth/falseness in afghanas writings.
  21. Well thank kudrat you are here to help. stop spewing hate? but... is quite hateful isn't it, when no-one on this forum has actually supported that. Or maybe it's cos Dhumma said didn't actually say that. If people used their brains, no0one would beleive in God/gurdwara/religion at all. Logically.
  22. I have come across this old text called "Decameron." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decameron#Frame_story It is a text which is very similar to Sri CharitroPakhyan Granth in it's structure. It's worth reading the above link to see how the main characters are represented and what they came up with in the stories. Just wanted to share this snippet from the above link : "The frame narrative structure (though not the characters or plot) originates from the Panchatantra,[citation needed] which was written in Sanskrit before AD 500 and came to Boccaccio through a chain of translations that includes Old Persian, Arabic, Hebrew, and Latin. "
  23. We don't. It's as simple as that. The Panj being male is not to insinuate any such thing that you are saying. If you still insist on your method of reasoning, others will ask why there are no females writings in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Then they can also claim that the Guru's only spoke of equality but didn't practice it. Where does that leave you personally? Deg is given to 5 Singhs, so one would expect them not to be drunks.
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