chatanga1

From this Charitar, I noticed a resemblance with another charitar. It hsa to do with haughtiness of one character, and the way this haughtiness was harnessed by another to spell one's doom. Basically the charitar is telling us that haughtiness is a bad trait, and that common sense is important, even when dealing with people who you despise.

Yes it looks like this to me. To dwell, or to live in.
 
Ok, here it is. I haven't read it myself yet though Dal.
 

Ramazan. Ramadan.

This is quite similiar to the one where the woman hides her paramour wrapped up a rug propped up against a wall. Again there is no mention of the Prince being recalled from or returned to prison. So thats 10 charitars now that we have seen the absence of this regular occurance. The charitar is short and the theme is a common one. Even though the 3 people involved were in quite close proximity to each other one of them was completly oblivious to the fact.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_(Rara_Sahib_wale)/Sant.Isher.Singh.(Rara.Sahib.wale)--Suleman.Tape.01.mp3
 
Here you go bro.

Dal you are aware that Nidar Singh has brought out a kindle of CharitroPakhyan translations?
 
 
Good connection bro.

A very good connection there bro. I'm a little angry with myself that I didn't notice it myself, as it occurs twice in Mahabharat which I have been reading/watching recently.
When Bhishma goes for Gandhari's hand in marriage for blind Dhritrashtar, both Shakuni and his father are too afraid of Bhishma to refuse him. Shakuni is very angry and swears to destroy the pandav kingdom.
 
The other time Bhishma takes the 3 girls and one ends up killing herself but swears she will avenge herself on him in a new form of Shikandi.
 
I'm seeing this in a new light as well. How physical power can in itself lead toward powerful and uncontrollable desires of revenge by those on the receiving end.

The above can remind us of the Pandit of the original tale, who did not tutor Hanwant Singh (thereby keeping him illiterate). His loyalty should have been towards the King (Chitar Singh), but he betrayed his master. In olden times, the role of the Pandit was very pertinent in educating the princes in the various fields of knowledge. This would prepare them to become suitable to sit on the throne in the future.
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Here we have another charitar that covers 2 chapters.
Here are some of my observations from this charitar:
Firstly the man caught his wife enflagrant as in another charitar. But on that occasion the husband left both of them alone and persuaded his own mind to forget about it. Move on. But in this charitar the aggrieved party, the husband kills the other man. Why didn't he kill his wife as well? I can't see the wife as being innocent in this, rather she would have been the instigating party in the affair, as the other man was an employee of her husband.
That brings me onto another point. The other man worked for the husband but had no loyalty toward him at all.
 
Then after the woman discovers her lover dead, she was hellbent on revenge and took a sword to kill any man she could find. Did the other man mean that much to her that she was prepared to kill over him?
Why does the dogar wait a year? I think maybe he was giving her the chance to come clean herself and tell him the truth. Finally after a good amount of time, the Dogar knew she wouldn'tand decided to engineer things to solicit some kind of reaction from her.  Then after she has been exposed she even attempts to kill her own husband, who is the innocent party in the story. maybe this is also a reflection of the root story where the Queen has attempted to take the of the Prince ?

Thanks bro, I wanted to mention also that it said there were 1,300 online. Looking now that most number online has gone up to 1,900.

This is quite a long charitar but the obvious aspect that springs to mind is that both of the men are nefarious characters. One is a thief and the other a swindler. Why would a woman want to be involved with not 1 but 2 such characters. To me these characters in themselves are explaining something. I haven't worked it out yet. I remember Paapiman talked about antriv arths somewhere along the line. Could this be such an instance?
 
Listen to katha see if you cna pick up any clues. I will put u translation after:
http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Harbhajan_Singh_Dhudikey_(Vidyarthi_Sampardai_Bhindra)/Sri_Dasam_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji_Katha/16_Charitropakhyan_Katha/Giani.Harbhajan.Singh.Dhudhikey.(Vidyarthi.Sampardai.Bhindra)--468.-.Charitropakhyan.Katha.026.mp3
 
Start at 23 mins.
 

I think it extends to what lengths people can go to when they are blinded by lust, and the need for revenge.

The translation doesn't make sense in english too much Dal. It says "in the house" to begin with, and then "he hid under a buffalo." Who keeps a buffalo in their house?
When I looked at it this is how I translated that part
"
ਪੈਠਿ ਅੰਧੇਰੇ ਧਾਮ ਮਹਿ ਕਾਢਿ ਲਈ ਕਰਵਾਰਿ ॥
Entering the house in the dark, she took out a sword ( ਕਰਵਾਰਿ ) is a sword that is shaped like a nail - mahan kosh )
ਨਿਜੁ ਪਤਿ ਪੈ ਹਤ ਕੇ ਨਿਮਿਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਪਚਾਸਿਕ ਵਾਰਿ ॥੧੪॥
With the intention of killing her husband she struck several times (I don't think she actually made 50 strikes, just a lot of strikes)
ਨਿਰਖਿ ਚਮਕ ਤਰਵਾਰ ਕੀ ਦੁਰਯਾ ਮਹਿਖ ਤਰ ਜਾਇ ॥
Seeing the flash of the sword he hid under a leather rug (ਤਰ  also means under)( the word ਦੁਰਯਾ means rug/covering) (ਮਹਿਖ means buffalo)
(I can't see him hiding under an actual buffalo, becasue of the setting and also how preposterous it would sound as well. )
ਤਨਿਕ ਨ ਬ੍ਰਿਣ ਲਾਗਨ ਦਈ ਇਹ ਛਲ ਗਯੋ ਬਚਾਇ ॥੧੫॥
Not getting many injuries he survived by this act 15.
 
Just to add there is no mention of the Prince being recalled or returned to prison in these charitars either.

Hi, saw this earlier today and wanted to make admins aware of it.  @sarabatam

Was sorting out my steeks as they got into a bit of disorder and found this ! It belongs to my parents but I have been glancing through it and it is so interesting.
 

Hi, saw this earlier today and wanted to make admins aware of it.  @sarabatam

Was sorting out my steeks as they got into a bit of disorder and found this ! It belongs to my parents but I have been glancing through it and it is so interesting.
 

Here is Jaggi's translation of it:

From 36 mins onwards for katha of this : http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Harbhajan_Singh_Dhudikey_(Vidyarthi_Sampardai_Bhindra)/Sri_Dasam_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji_Katha/16_Charitropakhyan_Katha/Giani.Harbhajan.Singh.Dhudhikey.(Vidyarthi.Sampardai.Bhindra)--467.-.Charitropakhyan.Katha.025.mp3

Here is the 2nd part by Jaggi:

See the ending here? How the husband says to the villagers :" look at my injuries." When I read this it reminded me of the self -inflicted injuries the Queen gave herself and used them as evidence to the King. The husband here for his part now knows that he can never reconcile with his wife after ther attempt on his life. So he decides that her death is the only way out.

Interesting. from the katha it seems as such. I will listen to it again.
Jaggi's translation of it has made it a lot clearer.
 

Lets deal with the charitar first. See how we have been sidetracked to discuss other things and moved onto the next charitar without even looking at this. Dal ask your questions in some of the topics that talk about the granth itself, not individual charitars please.
 
Ok, so the opeing para of this tells us about a male in the garb of a holy person who indulges in things that he shouldn't be. He wears the attire of a holy person but is committing a great crime by having a physical relationship with another man's wife. To me this doesn't only show deceit but also "ingratitude." In gurbani as well, it says holy men say that gresht dharam is wrong but yet go begging for alms at those same doors. To me this is along the same lines. The holy person who beleives that gresht dharam is wrong is going to that same place for his own needs.
So this person acting out of character is another point we have seen before in the charitars and the root story. The next bit I'm a little confused by. It seems she  asks her husband by saying take the sword and go and look for a thief, whilst she goes back to the holy man. Then when her husband comes back (without any thief) she says that there is a servant of a holy man whom she hid in the house because the servant was about to be killed by his master. Bit hard to decipher this one.  She is fooling her husband under the pretence that she is actually saving someone's life. Now that's not a small thing is it ? To save someone's life. So naturally her husband is pleased with her actions and doesn't see any wrongdoing.
 
Any thoughts?
 
http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Harbhajan_Singh_Dhudikey_(Vidyarthi_Sampardai_Bhindra)/Sri_Dasam_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji_Katha/16_Charitropakhyan_Katha/Giani.Harbhajan.Singh.Dhudhikey.(Vidyarthi.Sampardai.Bhindra)--467.-.Charitropakhyan.Katha.025.mp3
 
Please listen from 17 mins onwards. i will listen tomorrow now as its taken me about 45 mins just to locate the charitar and starting point. Gurmatveechar hasn't listed the charitars by number as some audio files cover more than one charitar.
 
 
 
 
 
 

It is the way the King carries out his actions that I feel is the main point. The King has no shortage of female admirers who live for his gaze as shown in the intro. But the story then tells us that the King has two women. With these two women, why does the King feel the need to express his love for one, yet blindfold one to sport with the other? If he were King and they were his wives/companions he would not need to hide his activities. He IS the King after all.
 
This tells us that although there are two women in the palace their relationship is different with the King. One is what we might consider lawful and the other is one we would consider unlawful. This is what seems to be reflected in the root story onloy it has been showed from the opposite viewpoint. To me it seems like the Minister wanted to also portray the charitar as being played like a game. A game of hide and seek, which was fun for the one woman who enjoyed it and took it seriously yet the King and the other woman used it for another purpose. The young Queen in the original story seems to think that it would be some kind of game to move on the King's son and then get him executed when he resisted her advances.
 
Paapiman if you add the charitars as above I will add the Panjabi version from the steek:

 


 
 
good touch to add that bro. it provides an easy access to the gurmukhi script which I feel is essential to read.