drawrof

hello, NEO your point is correct in that I read it was one of the nau nidhi's. I will give you a reference for this soon btw, I concur with the point of a warrior being one who is trying to fight evil within their mind...

hello everyone, whenever you hear the average punjabi sikh talk about hazoor sahib they always label it as a "nihanga da gurdwara"... yes there is a shaunee close by, and yes mata sahib deva is a drive away, but what about the takhat? what is the relation of sri abchal nagar and nihangs in todays day and age?

my question for the sangat..... can a guy who cut his poo with a table knife and threw it at people ever become a mahapursh???

gurfateh, sants or those of the meditative persuasion always suggest eating satoguni. They avoid all unnecessities (ie. tea, green and red mirch, onions, and garlic). sabji with fulkay and not to excess, clarified butter etc, are the types of things that are eaten. I haven't heard of too many sants say "meat shaklo" or "koi na, fish vee kha laye dee".

lets do this, lets change the perception of sikhs by being normal (insteadof uptight and militant). lets bring sikh culture as opposed to ghetto punjabi culture in the forefront, lets build virtue... and then make our presence known... we'll be chardeekallah in every aspect instead of waiting for things to happen

N30, the antithesis of snobby N30, he's such a 4%J wahaby N30, a friend without folly N30, a hardcore takshali n30, oh n30, yeah n30, its N30

mehtab singh, I really enjoyed reading your post.

If a muslim couldn't get one to god or islam was not considered a legitimate path to god, guru hargobind would not have created guru ka maseet. if udasi's weren't good preachers and their bhagtee wasn't "Rated" then why would guru sahib give baba gurditta to baba sri chand? my readings of jail chittian and unditti duniya indicates to me that the only people who can get to sachkhand are gursikhs..... I do understand there is a pecking order but I dont believe it is that simple or narrow.

for me its n30 (that akj wahabi) :wink:

hello all, what is everyone's views on ishar singh nara as a historian? My purpose in asking this is that I like reading about sikh personalities etc (to see how they have taken sikhi into their life).... I have found a few trends 1) many writers give a biased view of history which is laced with their ideology. 2) many writers will omit information that does not suit their theological outlook etc 3) many writers will write information that "purposely" knocks other schools of thoughts. is there any feedback that anyone can give about ishar singh nara? thanks

sorry sukh singh, I meant to address jatta... and I hope you don't have to go through the same waters, on a similar boat..... waheguru

sukhsingh, exact same boat as you bro! I was with a girl for 2.5 years, and I know exactly what you mean about the girls situation, but I'll share whats happened with me. Things weren't all that hot in my previous situation, she and I had differences, actually it was more of my reluctance to conform to her sect/group made me a pariah. Well, she bailed out on me, and Its the best thing she could have done, because that has allowed me to meet the person who I am going to spend the rest of my life with.... I wouldn't have been able to hook up with thiis girl when I was not amritdhari (and she isn't amritdhari yet) because she would have thought I was a player. pm me, we'll chat..... waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

Tsingh, always a pleasure to get input from you . Please feel free to educate the sangat more about these sects. as of late, I have been reading about baba sahib singh bedi. The book has been written by ishar singh naara. here is something from it about other samparda's.... I' ll post it up in a bit

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh....another sect of sikhi stemming from gurujii's blessing. Bharat mat darpan: p. 69 Writer sri mahant ganesha singh ji (dera guru sar, khuda, hoshiarpur) Publisher: chatter singh, jeevan singh Published:1992 Sat kartaareeyay A sangatee of guru arjun devji by the name of sodhi lived in Lahore in 1650 (bikrami). He came to guruji’s darbar with the intention of doing seva and serving the guru. He did seva and also repeated “sat kartarâ€. Guru arjun devji became very impressed with sodhi’s devotion and said you will be a man who will possess a lot of riddhian siddhian. This person’s tej increased and he ended up keeping himself (gupt) hidden and continued to do seva and worked for a living to meet his basic needs. Whenever anything came out of his mouth it turned out to be true. He gained a follower by the name of sangat das khatree. Sodhi gave him his seli topi and passed away shortly after. Sangat das lived till the age of 130. He spent all his time doing simran and tapasya. He stayed in a (chaubaaray). He may have had miraculous abilities but he didn’t once display any. He would constantly mutter sat kartar. When he would say these words, people felt it and a following started. Sangat das’s son, hazaari das, became the next figurehead/leader and he moved to sri hargobindpur. He increased the following and even made a makaan which is still seen on the corner on beas by hargobindpur (again this book was written a long time ago, so it may no longer exist). The next figurehead/leader was hazaari das’s son, harlaal das. He was also a very devoted soul. He preceded haridas and from that point onwards the sect flourished. Rituals/practices They wear the majeet color that sadhu’s wear. Some even wear white clothes, but their turbans are always colored. They follow all the practices of the udasi mat, minus the dreads and ash smearing. They follow guru granth sahib ji and do satnaam and sat kartar jap. They also lecture on these 2 topics. When they great each other, they say “sat kartar, sat kartarâ€. This sect hasn’t spread outside of punjab

hello everyone, This is another mat which started with the blessing of our beloved guru's..... Bharat mat darpan: p. 58 Writer sri mahant ganesha singh ji (dera guru sar, khuda, hoshiarpur) Publisher: chatter singh, jeevan singh Published:1992 Suthra shahi mat In 1682 bikrami, a son was born to nandhay khatree, in the village braampur, district sialkot. The son was born with teeth (This is considered to be a bad omen and is indicative that a “rakshas†has been born into the house). The parents saw the teeth and got scared and they called the jotshee who also got scared. They disposed of their child in the jungle on the advice of a Brahman. This may be considered odd, but kartar (god) had a different series of events which transpired. Fate had it that guru hargobind sahib had been traveling along this route on his horse back from kashmeer. Guru sahib looked at the kid when a gursikh brought the child close and he said “eh bacha barra sohna suthra haiâ€. Guru sahib named the child suthra and compassionately raised the child. At the age of 5, a request was made of the guru to give the child back to the parents and the child went back. Suthra returned to the guru when he was much older, and guru sahib addresses him as shah suthray (because he was the son of a khatree) and suthra was known thereafter as suthra shah. He did a lot of seva of guru sahib and won his blessings and praise. He also spent a lot of time with guru har rai. By this time he had developed ridheeyan/sidheeyan. Whatever he would say would come to be. Some fakir would ask for food from the guru’s langar, but he spoke rudely. Suthra shah spoke up against him and the fakir stood in indignance. Suthra shah took off his cap and threw it in the water and said “it’ll come to you if it is yours, otherwise it’ll come to meâ€â€¦ it so happened that it came to suthra shah and he also took away the fakir’s danda. Guru har rai heard of this and got happy, and gave him a seli topi. (that was his “thaapi†and a samparda started from this point called suthar shaheeyay). Suthra shah went to delhi and stood up against the mughal badhshah who made hindu’s take off their janeou. So what suthra did was to create a janeou of pigskin and applied a tilak of cowdung to his head and said “take off my janeou and tilak, otherwise leave everyone alone!â€. Suthra shah created a shoe that was really large and left it in the mosque, the kaazi saw it and thought that it was the shoe of allah. He told the badhshah…then suthra shah paraded around with the other juthee asking where his juthee has gone. He gave a sharaaaf to that person who stole it. The badshah came forth with the juthee and when suthra shah stuck his foot in it, it slowly started fitting and the badshah realized that suthra shah had some “karamaatâ€. He offered him some land, but suthra shah refused, and instead he asked for money from shops of baaneeyay. This still continues till today. In 1738, suthra shah passed away at the age of 53. His chela named rajaal proceeded him. Guru har rai ji had given suthra shah a gutka and this was passed onto rajaaal shah. Rajaal shah had 2 chelay, one by the name of sahejanand shah and another by the name of jhanger shah. One day, jhangarshah was playing his danda on his arm, singing praises of maata and “maata†was so happy that she gave him another one from the mandar. They now carry 2 danday’s. he was also given a tilak from the vibhutti of a havan kund. For this reason, followers wear a black tilak. Edicts of the religion 1) Charanamrit- initiation 2) satnaam mantar 3) follow god, your guru and devi maata 4) means of living is by asking for money from shops.. no other means 5) keep a moustache but shave their head is their maryada 6) eating meat or fish is not bad, nor is having sexual relations with a woman 7) stay inebriated in bhang and charas is okay.

touche! the point being that guru sahib has adorned us with a lifestyle that resonates with the following line "eh lok sukhiyay, parlok sohelay" guru sahib has taken the best of sargun to connect us with nirgun.

with you on this one, singh 47

Bharat mat darpan: p. 192 Writer sri mahant ganesha singh ji (dera guru sar, khuda, hoshiarpur) Publisher: chatter singh, jeevan singh Published:1992 The khalsa panth has a section called the nihangs. One day guru gobind singh’s son, fateh singh, came into the darbar with a round loosely tied (tillee) dastar, a tilla kacchera, a salotar on his shoulders and he shouted fateh really loud. Guru sahib saw his son and smiled with happiness and said “a panth will be established that will follow your precedentâ€. In suraj prakash it is said that guru gobind singh saw maan singh inebriated with bhang at machiwarra and his pagh loosening up and became happy and said “a panth that will be following the precedent you have established… “ajehi haalat rakhan waala….†The damalla Naina singh nihang was known for eating langar with really poor people (Sikhs). One day he had drank too much bhang and made his pagh uchee and read “ mera gur mil uch damalraâ€. These damallay’s came into vogue after that time and they are called naina singh damallay’s. Nihangs don’t believe there is anyone else who is as authentic (vidaata) as them. They talk differently. They partake meat, bhang, post, afeem and don’t believe there is sin in any of it. They don’t believe stealing is wrong either. They don’t do much katha, satsang, teerath, fasting. Their sole focus is on listening to and reading gurbani. They read a lot of dasam baani. Kacha, karra, kanga, kard, and kes are the 5 kakkars they always wear. They are full of bir rass. They don’t learn vidiya (again from a nirmalla perspective, they mean shaastras (religious texts) not shastars (weapons). They don’t come close to even doing any type of veechar. They have their own code language that they use amongst theirselves and when addressing others...so that their questions are difficult to answer. This group is now part of either the akaalees or the khalsa panth

I disagree with everyone here, I am glad they spent money on the palki (providing that it is of the highest calibre and aesthetically beautiful. I believe more sikh artists/craftsmen should be supported by our so called powers)...... what they need to do is take the money from charava and establish institutes and use their time and efforts to better circumstances. There is absolutely no reason why guru sahib deserves anything less than a palki.... and there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for the money of the sangat to be used in any way other than to benefit the more needy. guru sahib had singers, poets, philanthropists, masters in linguistics, poor people and rich people in his darbar (his whole kingdom was his darbar)....why can't we have the same?

Bharat mat darpan: p. 21 Writer sri mahant ganesha singh ji (dera guru sar, khuda, hoshiarpur) Publisher: chatter singh, jeevan singh Published:1992 AKAALEEYAY! This is a reference to who we refer to as akali’s of old! A few theories written about the origins of the akalis 1) one day guru gobind singh ji maharaj gave (mah <black gram, dal>, thil (sesame seeds <sesamum indicum>, loha<iron>, and neelay bastar<blue clothes>, thula <oil>) to a Brahman. The Brahman was on his way home and some singhs inebriated with bhang took his stuff away. The Brahman, quite upset, went back to guru gobind singh and lodged a complaint. Guru gobind singh laughed and said “these guys are akaalees†( bhaye eh akaaleey eh). Guru gobind singh further said “ I took out poverty(nan g), hunger(bhuk), calamities(darider), obstacles(greh) dasha’s out of our house. They took these items without thinkings and they will now have the aforementioned dasha’s. at that point guru gobind singh took the loha kard, karray,and adorned the singhs with blue attire…..then he said “eh sikh meray akaleeyay hanâ€! hence story #1 about the origins of akali’s. 2) The second story relates to machiwaara and how guru sahib became uch da pir. He had worn blue clothes and let his hair out. He had gone to dhillong nagar and taken off his blue clothes and dressed in white. He burnt the blue clothes and gave one strip of the blue cloth to maan singh. From that point on, akalees started 3) Naina singh nihang had a chela named phoola singh. (yes, akali phoola singh)…He was a ferocious warrior and was given a regiment by maharaja ranjit singh called the “akaal†regiment. They wore kacha, karray, carried a kirpan, and wore blue clothes. They ate out of iron utensils and would shout akaal twice in the evening. They were hence called akaaleeyay, and they dismantled at akali phoola singh’s death. A bit about akalees: They were blue clothes, eat out of iron utensils (sarablohi). They don’t believe in anything and don’t associate with anyone outside of guru granth sahib ji. They don’t eat with anyone unless they are amritdhari. They do parkarma in the opposite to direction of everyone else. They eat from their own cooked food (sodhee) <they won’t even look at anyone else’s food….bibeki>. They have now aligned theirselves with the nihang panth.

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh! veer, keep these hopes and motivations, and inspirations close to your heart. I have been amritdhari now for over 6 months, and I have done "EXACTLY" what you have mentioned. saying that, I must say that these feelings of closeness to waheguru and yearning for it doesn't come all the time, so use it to guide you and go with it, immediately....my problem was that I waited too long. guru sahib is completely dyal, you have nothing to worry about even if things go "slightly" off...just remember, in all situations, that your expectations and what you think is right, may not be the path laid out for you.....stick to the path that is meant for you and even a little means alot. stay in chardeekallah, waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

Personally, I see no issue in bowing down in front of anyone, unless it is a mere mechanical gesture..... I actually included the part of baba darshan singh and sant meehan singh's pyaar for each other to show that people of a higher thought, learning, devotion, bhagtee (or however you'd like to address it), have that much tolerance and love that things such as bowing and not bowing does not make them enemies or rivals. ie. as neo singh has mentioned in another post, baba chet singh (who was maasahaari) and baba ishar singh rarray sahib wallay (who was shaakahari) had prem....see, we argure over meat no meat, they choose to love gursikhs of guru nanak.... in the end, I guess it comes down to 'it takes one to know one" :wink: gurfateh ji

I have contacted a very chardeekallah mahapurakh and he told me that we should do an akhand paat followed by an akhand jaap. mugermach singh was actually a horse that used to laugh in his old life, and he laughed during ardass, so he came back as a human with a crocodile name, but he was lucky enough to have "bachan" from bhai naamabhyaas singh ji, and because of that he got the human form. so now he has been blessed with naaam, but he unfortunately has to fulfill his karam. lets do ardaas and then call some of the "singhs" to sort him out

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh Tsingh, your tact and manner, all immersed in humility has made my day. If everyone had a bit of that in them, everyone's heart would be like butter waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

my family in coventry were shardalu's of baba meehan singh, he was a very jolly, quiet person who had some sense of peace around him...an aura (even my non-religious relatives attest to this). he used to allow people to matha tek to him etc, and when ladies would come meet him, he'd say if you want to get darshan of some "devi" go to wolverhampton and meet baba ishar singh rarraysahibwallay. he was also very close to baba darshan singh kulliwallay, before he passed away in vancouver, he sent a sevak to toronto to go and give darshan singh kulliwallay 3 flowers. darshan singh became "udaas" and a sevak asked "whats wrong" he goes " I have had 3 lives with meehan singh, now he is going home"....a few days later he passed away. darshan singh was staunch and never let anyone matha tek to him. well, meeha singh was the opposite, and I, with my own eyes, saw a picture of them hugging, and embracing, and they both have such warm caring expressions on their faces hope that helps jatti