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try sarbloh granth ji! ps. for jsb, lalleshvari et al.. darbar sahib is beautiful. I went to the brahmboota akhara beside it as well, very nice. I am going to get my hands on a handwritten bir (1/2 of it) by pandit narain singh... (no milavat in that for sure). jsb. rakab ganj was awesome, bangla sahib was a bit too "mela-ish" for me. cis-ganj and the q'ila by tajmahal definitely proved to me how grand and majestic guru sahib's power was. talk to you all in about a month gurbar akaal

The sant nirankari mission offers what they refer to as brahmgyan, if anyone knows about what they give; is that actually nirankar? thanks

what is hanuman natak about? where can it be found? what is the context of it all?

fatehji I have had ample oppurtunity to talk to the living sister of shaheed bhagat singh and she has confirmed that shaheed bhagat singh wanted to meet bhai randhir singh to give him respect for sacrificing his life for india. Bhagat singh never wanted to become amritdhari and had even said to randhir singh " guru tegh bahadur gave his whole body for people's freedom, I have only given my hair (one ang)". The last letter written to the brother of bhagat singh is still in the family's hands...there is absolutely no mention of bhagat singh wanting or even indicating that he was going to become amritdhari. He was keshdhari before he cut his hair, and his mother had mentioned how he used to go to the gurdwara on sagraand and give a ramalla. He was also known to have been doing simran while he was walking around normally, he was an activist and a humanitarian; the fact that his name is being used by authors to propogate faith is a bit fishy. personally message me if you have any issues or concern about this topic gurfateh

lalleshwari, you mentioned something that is not "sikh".....don't you know, spirituality doesn't exist outside sikhi and its rehit! why quote from the second best??? sikhi respects every religion, but being a sikh you "HAVE TO" believe sikhi is the ONLY WAY :roll:

the drop naturally tries to go back to the ocean because it belongs to it and seperation is unbearable, the drop is still lucky because it doesn't decide what the parameters of the ocean is, nor will it be likely prone to mixing in with a pool, staining itselfself red and then claim that it is part of the ocean. The real question is, how many of us really know we are drops, and of us, how many of us are thirsting for the ocean. ps. You're answer deserves a kudos

Hello Everyone, I have a question, why is it that sikhs (including me) are so hell bent on trying to be 100% perfect. Instead, why don't we just do what we have to do with love and leave it at that. We are all trying to our different degrees to be guru ji's sikh. Personally, I don't really care what anyone else thinks of the way I do things, because I do what I do from my heart. I feel frustrated and caged when I go by someone else's dictum. ie. I was asked once to do a pentra to go pick up shastar. I was told to go at it with my heart... so being "me", I started doing "fasla...(the bhangra move). I picked up my shastar and my ustad thought "why did I even bother"...mind you, if the point of the excercise were to do what I was taught, I would have, but I was told to do what came from my heart...so I danced... sat sri akaaaaaaaaal

I have heard bhai avtar singh raagi, wakes up at 2 does nitnem, naam simran, and sukhmani sahib till between 6 and 8 then he goes for a walk. His devotion to gurmant sangeet is in itself true sikhi in my eyes

sharda comes in all forms and what is in one's heart is always way more important than their execution (except in special circumstances). dharam singh zakhmi and jatha used to do asa ki vaar every morning. Then dharam singh would go home and it ALL over again. He had once said " I do it for maya in the morning, and for waheguru when at home". they practiced their rehaaz on average of 1.5 hours to 3 (this is not 100% but something that was mentioned).

according to pracheen panth prakash, bhagat kabeer reincarnated to become one of the panj pyaray

hello everyone, I have a question about the maryada with baana. Nihang singhs in india where baana "most" of the time if not all of the time correct? well what does a nihang singh in the west do? what I mean to say is this. are there specific times or places where nihang singhs MUST or MUST NOT wear baana? mehtaab singh and sukha singh (who I assume were nihangs/akali's) let go of their hair and wore a cloak when they went to go take off massa ranghars head (if I have the right person). They weren't in baana then. Guru gobind singh ji wasn't in baana during the whole "uch da peer" incident. Guru nanak dressed in dhoti/chaadra when he did "kethi" (farming) but was dressed like a saadhu/pir at other times... so my question is, what are the limitations and when is it necessary to wear baana (apart from fighting).... I know that changes have occured throughout time, because "buttoned baana's" must be a new innovation.. just like those "lappells" (if that is the right name, those pieces of cloth which are sowed onto baana these days on the shoulders)...on the shoulders (practically, they have no use). thanks for any info!

I was told there is an itihaasik place between anandpur sahib and amritsar called poghpura where guru gobind singh would train his soldiers. I can't remember the date. The kathavaachik mentioned how each chandd related to to a pentra. I just wanted more information. Mugermach, what you're saying makes sense

Here is my opinion of the website. To be quite honest, I thought the website was very reflective of what my view was of sikhi in theology. I see it as a path/relationship/commitment to god. Sikhi (which I believe is absolute truth or 'tat') extends beyond a cultural, religious, socio-political image. What I really liked was the sources used. I have read alot of books, but it dawned on me after seeing certain things quoted that I should get my head down, do my own work and reap my benefits from that. Dharam might be "snatan", but I don't fit sikhism into that (only because right wing fascists in india are doing that). I went back did veechar on the verse that had snatan in it, in sarbloh granth, and to be quite honest it was mentioned in passing...so I believe that was taken out of context. if something is the truth, one person disagrees and calls it "tat" and then someone comes by and calls it "snatan"... its the same essence, and a person with my mindset will view it as an attempt to twist or monopolise the truth. I think that the cosmopolitan nature of the website is very good and very reflective of how I view the guru's and their message. unfortunately these days the gurus are depicted as saintly men with droopy eyes and a halo (when presented to kids); Warriors with a majestic presence (when depicted in pictures hanging in the gurdwara); or recluses who came into society to tell people how to be the "best" recluse (when presented in katha). I would like to read more about bhai fouja singh. I read some transliterations of his letters from jail and his enthusiasm and devotion was inspiring. I personally don't like the way he or anyone else is depicted by "certain" groups because there are certain elements which have been used as milestones and only those elements get reflected. Another thing, I have never met niddar singh, but I wouldn't mind meeting him. I would suggest to everyone though that unless you have met him and clicked etc, don't put him on a pedestal. I personally would not take him to be an authority on sikh history, although I do find his point of view interesting. let me throw out one last thing, this is about the whole indian agent thing.... people who have gone against the grain are usually disliked by the masses, but what I have found (especially in sikhs) is that those who are leading the masses tend to be corrupt. take it easy

Hello, I heard from a source that pentray were done to jaap sahib's chandd's does anyone have any knowledge of this. if this is true, is it still practiced?

what is sukhmana sahib, what is the history? does it have to do with meditation? (like saas-graas :wink: )

what is hanuman natak, and what is the history? if it is part of dasam guru darbar/dasam granth (why is it not generally included)? thanks,

How would I get out of hell, if I eat eggs, and how many janams would I have to wait to get darshan of waheguru? would It help if Write a request to some naam abhyaasi, uchee avastha, chardee kalla singhs to do ardaas for me? can I get pesh in hell... please help, das moorakh, neewweee avastha! thanks wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh (lareevar)

according to what I have read in the nanaksar gutka, baba sri chand completed the 17th salok of sukhmani sahib. This was his way of retracting the sharaaf from the guru's. It is believed to have been a karmic issue of some sort (again, excuse my vagueness). Furthermore, an udasi family I know here claim that the meeting with baba sri chand was needed to start the baani again. They believe baba sri chand had dhur ki bani as well.

Hello everyone, I have read/heard that sukhmani sahib is a special paat... why and how was it done? how has it taken the precedence that it has? ie. I have read about it in suraj prakash, then again in nanaksar gutka's, and also at a lecture done by jeevan deol where it was stated that maharaja ranjit singh's mom has done it. thanks..

Hi everyone, I was wondering why we do the nitnem we do, and how and why it came into place. I have read gurbachan singh bhindrawallay's reasoning. I am wondering, seriously, why we have recitation of prayer? it becomes confusing at times because we have singing, simran, paat...and then a whole slew of other practices. How are we supposed to give ourself to the guru, when we have all this to do? apart from japji, sodar (which I don't know is how long) and kirtan sohila, is there any other mention of any paat being done on a daily basis? (ps. I just want to hear people's educated experience/opinion)

how would one interpret that? is one supposed to chant? I am really lost :?:

hmmm.... we are all bound by kal in our answers aren't we? if you eat, then you have food...and no friends if you chose friends, then you have friends but no food BUT, In scenario A, you may make a new friend any moment or not In scenario B, you may eat shortly thereafter or not HENCE, I suggest, get the food, distribute it amongst your friends, then you have both for a moment, then the food goes, and so do your friends (once they have had their fill). Then you have neither, until the cycle starts again OR you can be like the majority of us and claim that our only food is god, and our only food is god...and then delude ourselves to believe we have spiritual knowledge and faith....yet fail when the slightest things doesn't fit our own paradigm...

Hello, alright my view is going to make many people cringe, but I must say it. I believe the guru's weren't denying caste at all, or denying race, or denying social status, but rather the importance and structures that were created using them. let me explain. I believe we all understand that gurmat discusses that actions of an individual mean more than their lineage, per se. As we are who we are based on merit....now, here is why I say that caste and everything was NOT abolished and why it can't ever really be abolished. India's social structure was caste based and to get rid of that structure would take years and years. What the guru's said and did was to eradicate stigma associated to caste (ie. x caste= untouchable). I believe as a society we are still casteist, which doctor (female) would marry a taxi-driver (male)....? I have seen people who marry out of religion (yet claiming to be "true" to their caste) and justify it by saying "they are marrying indian, and the person is a doctor"..... this isn't conventional casteism but still a segregation. If there is compatibility merit in that, then there is also merit for people to marry in what they deem is their own. To answer the question above: the guru's wanted people to treat each other as humans (so discriminating over caste) is not ideal, especially when there isn't an issue. If there are compatability issues, then caste isn't the issue, but rather qualities (whether they be attributed to a caste or not). Personally, I see no problem with people marrying in caste or out, so long as they don't discriminate against others in a demeaning way. Yet, it doesn't make a difference what I think at the end of the day, it is what your respective families feel and how much that effects you. best of luck, let love flourish akaal

alright, apparently the initiator of this thread was very serious about this. I will be honest in what I believe the problems would be. My fear, as a sikh, would be that we would end up creating a facsist regime. We would have stupid rules such as "only amritdhari's can be in parliament and so on and so on". I know this sounds far fetched but I see international headlines echoing things like "the new sikh state, caught in the dilemna, of standardizing the use of "pig iron" in all public places" etc etc (I am not making a joke, but reflecting what I think would happen). Your point is valid that having our own base would allow us to be able to do seva projects etc etc. My point of contention though is that, as a sikh, I don't see these initiatives being taken right now... how could I expect that that spirit will be there afterwards. Lets be realistic for a second, our religion isn't reaching out to our own kids, ie.. people born to sikh houses aren't all that keen on keeping the identity in tact, nor is the guru's message really being exemplified by people. Look for example at the way this topic has been mocked and defended. Look at the way the proposition I made < which was made with the intention of empowering ourselves with our current resources> was dealt with. It was valid and could have easily been employed or viewed as part of the scheme by the person who readdressed it in that long message that had everyones name in it;but instead, it was rebutted. My honest view is that whoever refuted it could have easily said "good point, that could be a part of the plan". This type of reaction would have worked towards a consensus. Going forward, I am willing to look at this with open eyes. Bring out some more reasons as to how you think this would succeed. In actuality, we have resources outside of india that can easily fund this venture. I see merit in it. I would ask the supporters of this idea some questions. 1)what would be the constitution? 2)what would be the political aim? (My honest opinion is that it isn't hindu india that needs to be exposed as much as the sikhs merit. Right now, we don't have a presence. We don't have the political unity. Hence we are not heard. People know that the golden temple was attacked, but no one cares. The atrocity is easily blanketed by the "terrorist" stigma attached to the sikhs. We could try to make india look bad, but how are we going to succeed when countries like england, U.S., and Canada have been keenly building ties with india.... we will be shouting they are bad, and we will look like seperatists who do nothing but hate or "expose". My view on how to achieve this would be this, lets not be strangers to the global world. Let us build strong ties with affluent members of the business community in other countries. Let us use our identity and success to penetrate the global market and then establish business in this country. Let us have a practical, cosmopolitan society where everyone is free. You see, I can see something of this sort occuring, only because the world is slowly moving in that direction. What I would want to see though is that type of initiative from sikhs. I think I have babbled a fair bit, but I believe there is merit in what I have said. I believe a country like this, if politically engineered by cosmopolitan, secular sikhs, would succeed. unfortunately my fear is that we would have country with people who are at each other's throats for not rehitvaan amritdhari's in control of everything.

i have an idea which may work even better, lets not make sikhi "kachee" (brittle). We have many gurdwara's, we have comittees, we have langar etc etc.... why don't we expand this!!!! instead of setting up gurdwara's and focusing on that, as most are empty anyway why don't we recreate everything in the spirit of sikhi? bhain kanaiya was a sevapanthi/sikh (whatever) but he took guru ji's message and blew people's minds! why don't we stack up on non-perishable food items and start sending them out to impoverished countries. Why don't we take the spirit of the guru's and start spreading love. Instead of opening up another gurdwara, with another "sikh" class to tell all kids to grow their hair, why don't we put out pamphlets to discuss the great feats of our guru's. Why don't we set up organizations (teaching, psychological etc etc.. and then work by working through the larger communities)? why don't we offer ourselves to the UN. Sikhs should be the humanitarian's ideal. We are in an everchanging environment, we should retain our past for heritage and inspiration but create the future through action. let us realise why people don't want to be associate with sikhs.... first, we are considered by ourselves to be money hungry and after power (guru ji said this about every human.. its an affliction)...what doesn't help is having uncles knocking back the beers and discussing how bad the gurdwara politics are while asking their kids to fetch them ice for their whisky. My point isn't to sit there and bash non-practicising sikhs, but to look at what we can do to better ourselves, our households and then the rest of the world. Guru sahib empowered poets, warriors, scholars, sportspeople, businesspeople, philanthropists. As sikhs, we should do that and the next thing you'll know; sikhs have made the whole world their home. We we fill be focusing on "gun", fighting "avgun", and in the process, merging with "nirgun" through "sargun"...... all in sahej. Personally, I like everything about the punjabi culture. The modern day sikh culture to me seems to be a mirage/projection of the political aspect of punjabi culture. The lack of "right" focus is holding us back..... lets build virtue and live in that culture . sat sri aakaaaaaaaaal