Pheena

isn't that the 9 doors from which we experience the world??

are you asking what is the correct cermony to burn our hair??? im sorry but im a bit confused, i never knew that there was a way to do this type of saskaar. :?

Well obviously they are not wrong. What the Panj Payrays meant is that don't lie for the sake of lying. Don't justify your actions by lying. Don't lie in a Habit. Don't Lie to Hurt others. Don't lie to gain appraise. Even Murder can be Justified if its done in a defense. What good are your hands if you cannot defend you own life. A lie can be justified if its done for the right reasons. That lie which is protecting something far more important. Didn't the Singhs Lie to protect our Guru Gobind Singh when he was sorounded by the Mogul Armies in the city Machi Wara (im sure that was the city, if not please correct me) they carried him on their shoulders and when the Mogul's stopped them and asked who Guru Gobind singh ji was they told them that he was Uch tha Peer. Im sure thas how the story went, but if im wrong please correct me. They did not stop and draw their sword to fight, they used their Demaag. Understand this for you to save someone drowning in a mud, you yourself cannot be afraid of getting dirty.

The word surati, remembrance, is the quintessence of Nanak's practice. All saints merge into surati. The word comes to us from Buddha, who uses the sanskrit word smriti. Gurdjieff calls it self remembering, and Krishnamurti refers to it as awareness, a state of complete consciousness. Remembrance is very subtle. It needs to be explained with an example. A mother is very busy cooking. Her little child is playing around. For all purposes it looks as if she is engrossed in her cooking, but her surati is in the child -- lest the child fall, or go too near the staircase, or pick up something wrong to put into its mouth. She is busy in her work, but in everything that she does there is a persistent remembrance of the child. While the mother sleeps at night, no thunderclap can disturb her asleep, but let the child so much as stir her sleep is disrupted and her hand goes out to the child. Surati persists even in sleep -- remembrance of the child. Surati involves a continuous remembrance, like the thread in the beads. Do everything that the world demands of you, but let your mind stay always with Him. Sit, sleep, walk, eat; no purpose is served by running away from the world. Go to work, go to the office or the shop or the factory. Dig pits, because money has to be earned; worry about your kids. All these webs of the material world are there, but through it all keep alive remembrance of Him. Let life go on outside as usual, but within let there be only He! Keep your relationship with Him always fresh and alive. Nanak says there is no need to run away from the world. Attain surati and you become a sannyasin. Once remembrance is found, everything is in order. Of what use is your running to the woods if your surati is filled with the world? But this is what usually happens. People leave the world and flee to the forest -- and think of home! It is the mind's way not to worry about where it is, but focus on where it is not. When you are here you think how wonderful it must be in the Himalayas. Then you go to the Himalayas and start thinking: Perhaps I could have been in Poona. Maybe I have gone astray. The rest of the world stayed where they were. They can't all be wrong. What am I doing sitting under this tree? Even in the wilderness you will count your money and keep your accounts. The faces of wife and children will hover around you. You will be in the Himalayas all right, but your surati will be in your home with your family. Nanak says: Stay where you wish, but let your remembrance be in God. Nothing is achieved by singing praises; everything is achieved by surati. All singing of praises is superficial, whereas remembrance is within. There is no need to shout aloud: "You are great, O Lord, I am a sinner. You are the redeemer, I am a beggar." Why shout like that? Whom are you telling? There is no need to ring bells and sing praise; what is needed is remembrance. Keep his remembrance; do not forget for a moment. Nurture His remembrance. If you were to find a diamond, you would quickly put it safely away in your pocket. You might even tie it in a handkerchief lest it fall somewhere. Whether you go to the market, make your purchases or meet your friends, your remembrance will always be with the diamond. A faint low sound repeats again and again saying, "The diamond is in the pocket,.the diamond is in the pocket..." Every now and again you will feel it with your fingers to see whether it is still there. Nurture the remembrance of God within in the same manner. Now and then touch it inside to be sure it is there. While walking on the road, stop and look inside. Is the thread of remembrance intact? Is the flow continuous? While eating stop for a second and check; close your eyes and watch if the remembrance is flowing. Gradually the experience will go deeper and deeper. Then the flow of remembrance continues in your sleep too. When it flows all twenty-four hours of the day, you will have made the bridge between yourself and Him. Now you can close your eyes and merge into Him whenever you please. The road is now made; the instant you close your eyes you are lost in Him. And when you return to the world from your meeting with Him you will be refreshed, filled with absolute energy, as fresh and light as if you have just had a bath. Therefore Nanak says that bathing in thousands of holy places takes place in surati.

Exactly. To have read it in a book, does not mean you have experienced it. Read all you want about France, but that does not mean you have been there.

when ALL OTHER MEANS FAIL, then it is righteous to take up a sword. Confrontation is the last straw...not the first. Is there a Chance that you could lose to this man in a battle?? Is there a chance that if you do lose he could come into your house and do more harm tothe members of your family than just taking the woman and leaving. You are inviting Trouble inside your home. A simply mis-direction to the man isn't harmfull. If you have such faith and courage in you to defend the woman then exaust all other means before you draw your sword. If you are asking me what the Rehat says, i wouldn't know veer, i heard that from 2 different Sant's Kathas, so i decided to share it.

The lady is not a Lie. The Truth is that she is inside your house. You are protecting that Truth that she is inside your house by telling a lie to the Man who is looking for her by saying she is not in the house. You are trying too hard to understand this simple concept veer, understand it for its simplicity.

You are missing the point veer, You can't always revert to fighting, it is not an answer to every situation. Someone who chooses not fight does not mean he is weak. You have to be able to distinguish when it is right to take up a sword and when it is time to walk away or resort to verbal communication. Confontation is not the answer in this situation. It is " When all other means fail, then it is righteous to take up a sword". You haven't even tried any other means yet and you are ready to fight.

The name that you will get is gona be Waheguru. But the intentions behind the name is what matters. You can get the name from anyone, but from a Sant/Guru/5 Payaray he gives it with his Urja..he puts his energy behind the name before he gives it to you. That energy put behind the name given is what helps you develop your Urja.

Read what Mugermach Singh wrote. another example. If some man is chasing a woman to beat her or to hurt her she runs inside of your house. The man comes to your door looking for her. You can hold your vow to speaking the Truth, tell him that she is inside the house so he can grab her, beat her, possibly kill her. How good is your vow when someone suffers from it. If you lie that she is not inside, you are protecting the truth. Lie to protect the Truth. Im not sure the name of this Gursikh, but when asked by the Mogul invader where Mata Gujree and the Sehabjadays were, he lied and told them that they were at his house, when they were not. He lied to protect the truth.

http://www.evilcreations.net/pheena/1194_e...r_ekta_128k.wvx I think if you were born in india, You have to seen this 7 min clip. It usually ran inbetween T.V shows or movies. Sorry if its a repost.

have no idea who osho tosh is. His other name is Rajneesh.

NOpe not my words......Osho has a way with words :shock:

THERE ARE MILLIONS OF UNDERWORLDS AND INFINITE SKIES ABOVE. There is space. .. and space... and nothing but space. It is one sky that becomes infinite, becausethere is no boundary to space. It is one boundless space. Says Nanak, There is the sky, and the sky, and only the sky.... infinite times infinite. There is not just one single infinity; there are infinite infinities. Wherever you go you will find space. Whichever direction you may take, you will find boundless space; whatever you touch you will find it is space. The boundless abounds everywhere. In the midst of this boundless you are trying to trap God in your tiny cage of words? You try to imprison Him in books like the Vedas and the Koran. It is just like trying to imprison the vast skies within your palm. The wonderful thing about this is, when your palm is open there is space in it, but the moment you close your fist, whatever space was in it evaporates. The tighter you make the fist, the emptier it is. Use words like an open fist, not like a closed fist; but words that are like an open palm no longer remain logical. The more logical you want to make an expression, the more you have to enclose it. The greater the definition, the more constricted the expression. Whenever a thing is well defined, it becomes limited; you create a wall around it. The more rational the words, the less are they indicative of God. It seems as if they tell you a great deal but they really tell you nothing; the palm is closed. When words are free of reason they seem to tell little but they tell all. Keep in mind this difference. The words of Nanak are not the words of a logician; they are the words of a poet, a bard. They are the words of a lover of beauty. Nanak is not giving any definition of God through his words. They are like the open palm -- hinting at something, not telling anything. They point towards something that cannot be said. Don't hold on to the words or else you will miss Nanak's message altogether. If I point to the moon with my finger and you catch hold of my finger and refuse to look beyond it, how will you see the moon? The finger means nothing in itself; it is only a means to point at the moon. You have to let go of the finger to look at the moon, but people are such that they cling to the finger. This is why books are worshipped. Some worship the Vedas, others the Koran and yet others the Gurugranth. They directed their attention towards the book, and miss what the book points to. The harder you hold on to the book, the further away from the truth you go -- the fist gets tighter. For then words become more important; whereas the greatness lies not in the words but in the silence. For through silence alone you can know.

yea sis, haha u got good memory...im reading the book True Name in english, If you need it let me know..

Whoever considers himself to be something invariably misses Him, because there can be only one: either you or He. In one scabbard there is room for only one sword, not two. There is a very well-known poem by the Sufi poet Rumi: The lover went and knocked at the door of the beloved. A voice asked "Who is it?" He said, "Open the door. It is I." There was no answer, all was silent within. The lover knocked again. He called out again and again, "Open the door. It is I, your lover," but there was no response. Finally a voice came from within, "Two cannot be contained in this house. This is the house of love, it cannot accommodate two." Then again there was silence. The lover turned back. He wandered for years in the jungles. He undertook many fasts and practices; he performed many rites and holy works. He purified himself and thus cleansed his mind. He became more aware; he began to understand the conditions. After many, many years he returned once again and knocked at the door. The same question came from within, "Who is it?" But this time the answer that came from outside was, "You alone are." And, Rumi says, the door was opened. If you go to the gates of God as somebody -- then even if you appear as a sannyasin, a renunciate, a wise man, whatever, you will fail. The gate opens only for those who are nothing, nobody, who have annihilated their selves totally. In ordinary life also, love opens its doors only when you are not, when you are completely merged in the other and the voice of I has stopped. Then when this I becomes less important than you, and when you becomes your whole life, then you are capable of destroying yourself for the beloved; you willingly and happily enter into death. Then only does love blossom. In everyday life we thus get a glimpse of the one when two are no more. When the ultimate love arises, there should remain no sign of you; your name, your designation, your very self should turn to dust. Only when you annihilate yourself completely can this happen. Remember the words of Jesus: He who saves himself will be lost; he who loses himself will be saved. In His kingdom he who destroys himself attains everything and he who saves himself loses everything. Nanak says he who considers himself to be something is unworthy before Him. The truth is, he never even reaches Him. Proud eyes are blind eyes. He who has even a single thought of being someone, his personality is deaf, inert; he is already dead. He cannot appear before God. God stands ever before you but as long as you are, you cannot see Him. You are the obstruction, the obstacle. When this hindrance drops, your eyes become pure and open, devoid of I-ness. You are as if you are nothing, a mere emptiness. And in such emptiness He enters at once. Kabir has said the guest arrives in the house of one who is empty. No sooner do you become empty than the guest arrives. You miss Him as long as you are filled with your own self. The day you empty yourself He fills you.

All outward ablutions bring no transformation. At most you may gain a little respect in the eyes of others. But this reverence can be dangerous because your ego will try to make a mountain out of it; it won't stop recounting how many pilgrimages you undertook, how many fasts you have observed. Bodhidharma went to China from India. The Emperor of China came to him. This king had become a Buddhist and then had constructed thousands of monasteries, ashrams and temples. He had printed and distributed thousands of treatises on Buddhism. He fed millions of beggars every day. All this he recounted to Bodhidharma. He also told him how many images of Buddha he had had made. In fact there still remains a temple constructed by him which bears ten thousand statues of Buddha. He had whole mountains dug up for this purpose. His charity was immense, and all this he made a point of telling Bodhidharma. Bodhidharma listened completely unmoved. The king could wait no longer. "What will be the fruit of all these good deeds?" he asked. Bodhidharma replied, "Nothing. You will rot in hell." The king was dumbfounded. "What is this you say? I in hell?" "The deeds in themselves are not the problem. They are indeed good deeds, but your feeling of having done them is the difficulty. The good deeds have happened; leave them at that. Don't take upon yourself the doership of them. If you presume that you have done them, all virtue in your actions turns to dust; the medicine will turn to poison. As it is, medicines are made from poisons." In the days when rupees, annas and pies were still in use Mulla Nasruddin went to the doctor because his wife suffered from insomnia. "Help me please, doctor," said the Mulla. "She keeps bickering all night long, as if it wasn't enough all day." "Take this powder," said the doctor, "and each evening give her as much as would cover a four-anna bit." After about a week the doctor came upon Nasruddin on the road. "Say, how's the wife?" he inquired. "Your medicine worked wonders, doctor. She is still fast asleep!" The doctor was worried. "How much of the powder did you give her?" he asked. "Well," said the Mulla, "I did not have a four-anna bit so I took four one-anna coins, covered them with the powder and gave it to her -- so much peace in the house! What wonderful medicine." Medicine can become poison if you aren't careful about the quantity. Virtue can also become poison beyond a certain proportion. Remember, as long as virtue remains simply an action it is all right. When the doer is involved the proportion can become dangerous. If good deeds are performed to counteract one's evil deeds it is all right. But if good deeds are performed with the idea of earning or accumulating virtue, it is dangerous. You may gain some respect, but that is all. Don't take this to be religion. I was once traveling with Nasruddin on a bus. Suddenly Mulla got up in the moving bus and cried out, "Brothers, has anyone lost a bundle of notes tied in a string?" Many people claimed the bundle was theirs; they vied with each other to reach Mulla. "Peace, Peace!" exclaimed Mulla, "So far, I have only found the string." Religion is like the bundle of notes; good deeds are like the string. Don't pride yourself on them. The string in itself has no value, only when tied around the rupee notes does it assume value. What worth has a string that is tied around a stone? When good deeds unite with a selfless attitude they become the boat that takes you to the other shore. When good deeds are tied to the ego, they become like a rock on your chest that invariably drowns you. So there are people who are drowned in their evil deeds, and people who drown in their good deeds. This is why it often happened that a sinner arrived while the virtuous man lagged behind. An evildoer more easily becomes egoless because he knows he is a sinner; he knows it is well nigh impossible for him to reach God. He is convinced he has no good qualities and is only a storehouse of evil. He doesn't even dare to think that his voice could ever reach Him. In the absence of ego, even the sinner can reach; but when ego is present even the virtuous person drowns

Few time as i drive home from work...i pass over this small hill and to my left ( if i leave around the right time) is a town from which that hill overlooks and the sun sets right behind that town. If there are clouds in the sky and the sun is 96% setting down, the sky is just filled with thousands of colors and the rays of the sun just strike down upon the town. That Sight has to be the most humbling experinece in my life. To see such beauty created everyday. I have take few pictures of that sunset, i'll try to scan them in and post 'em.

i've been here for few days, so here my formal introduction name Gurinderjit Singh Hayer, 21, from Texas. Nice to mee Y'all....yeeehawwww

Liying to Protect the Truth is not a Sin.

Generally this feeling comes about after a person has tried his very best to get out of some trying circumstances. Having made full use of his sense of doing, he finds himself defeated on all sides, and then he turns to Him in desperation, leaving everything to Him; but this is no real surrendering. From the very beginning you should not make any effort to change your circumstances, but leave everything in His hands. Nanak's concept of supreme surrender is the ultimate spiritual path, the highest practice of a devotee. Then you needn't worry about choosing a path or method or scripture. You needn't worry about logic or proof of any philosophy; you have no use for any of these. The devotee rids himself of all these in the one stroke of surrender. He leaves everything at one time and cries out: "Thy way, not mine, O Lord! Thy will be done!" Experiment a little and you will understand. Nanak is no philosopher. He has not written a scripture, his words are the expression of his inner feelings. He is giving voice to his own experience. You will have difficulty at every step because of the ego, whose very cry is: I know what is right and what should be. There is a short story by Tolstoy: The god of death sent his angel to earth as an emissary to bring back the soul of a woman who had just died. The angel found himself in a dilemma because the woman had given birth to triplets. All three were girls: one was still sucking milk from the dead mother, another was crying and the third was so exhausted that it had fallen asleep. Such was the state -- three little babies, the mother lying dead and no one to look after them, since the father was already dead and there was no one else in the family. The angel returned without the woman's soul and told the god of death: "Forgive me, I did not bring back the woman's soul. You can't be aware of what I have just witnessed: there are three little babies that this woman has given birth to, one still suckling at her breast. There is no one to care for them. Can't you allow a little time to the mother so that the girls are big enough to look after themselves?" "So you have become very clever and wise, it seems," said the god of death, "perhaps wiser than he who wills both death and life to all mortal beings. You have committed the first sin for which you shall be punished. You will have to return to earth and, until such time as you laugh three times at your own foolishness, you shall not return." Understand this: laugh three times at your foolishness. The ego always laughs at the nonsense of others. When you can laugh at you own absurdity, the ego breaks. The angel readily agreed to undergo the punishment. He was quite certain he was right under the circumstances, and wondered how he would find an opportunity to laugh at himself. He was ejected from heaven. It was almost winter. A cobbler, who was on his way to buy warm clothes for his children, came upon a poor man, bare to the bones and trembling in the cold. It was none other than our friend the angel. The cobbler felt sorry for him. Instead of buying the children's clothes with his hard-earned money, he went and bought clothes and a blanket for the naked man. When he also came to know that he had nothing to eat and nowhere to go, he offered him the shelter of his own house. However, he warned him that his wife was bound to get angry but he should not be upset, everything would be all right later on. The cobbler arrived home with the angel. Neither the cobbler nor the wife had any idea who he really was. As soon as they entered the door the wife fired off a volley of abuse at her husband for what he had done. The angel laughed for the first time. The cobbler asked him why he laughed. "When I have laughed again I shall tell you," he answered, knowing that the cobbler's wife was unaware that the very presence of an angel who was her unwanted guest would confer a thousand benefits. But how far can the human mind see? For the wife it was a loss of warm clothing for the kids. She can only see the loss, but not what had been found -- and free of cost, at that. So he laughed, because she didn't know what was happening around her. Within seven days he learned the shoemaker's trade, and within a few months the cobbler's fame had spread far and wide. Even kings and noblemen ordered their shoes here, and money began to flow in an endless stream. One day the king's servant came to the shop, bringing special leather in order to have a pair of shoes made for the king. "Take care you make no mistakes, for this is the only piece of leather of its kind," said the servant. "Also, remember, the king wants shoes and not slippers." In Russia, slippers are worn by a dead person on his last journey. The cobbler gave special instructions to the angel to be extra careful with the king's orders, or else they would be in trouble. In spite of this the angel made slippers for the king. The cobbler was beside himself with rage. He was certain now he would be hanged. He ran to beat the angel with his stick. The angel laughed out loud at the very moment that a man came running from the king's court, saying, "The king is dead. Please change the shoes into slippers." The future is unknown; only He knows what is to be. Man's decisions are all based on the past. When the king was alive he needed shoes, when he died he required slippers. The cobbler fell at the angel's feet and begged forgiveness. The angel replied, "Don't worry. I am undergoing my own punishment." And he laughed again. The cobbler said, "What makes you laugh?" The angel said, "I laughed for the second time because we do not know the future and we still persist in desires which are never fulfilled, because fate`has different plans. The cosmic law works, destiny is set out, and we have no say in the matter. Yet we raise a hue and cry about things as if we are the makers of our destiny. The king is about to die, but he orders shoes for himself! Life is drawing to a close and we keep planning for the future." Suddenly the angel thought of the triplets: I did not know what their future was going to be. Then why did I intervene unnecessarily in their affairs? Soon the third event took place. Three young girls, accompanied by an old rich woman, came into the shop to order shoes. The angel recognized the girls as the daughters of the dead woman who had been the cause of his punishment. All three girls were happy and beautiful. The angel asked the old woman about the girls, and she said, "These are the three daughters of my neighbor. The mother was very poor, and died while nursing her new-born babies. I felt pity for such helpless babies and, since I had no children of my own, I adopted them." Had the mother been alive, the girls would have grown up in poverty and suffering. Because the mother died the girls grew up in riches and comfort, and now they were heirs to the old woman's fortune. They were also to be married into the royal family. The angel laughed for the third time. He told the cobbler, "My third laugh is because of these girls. I was wrong. Destiny is great, while our vision is limited to what we can see. What we cannot see is so vast. We cannot imagine the enormity of that which we cannot see and of that which is to be. Having laughed at my foolishness three times, my penalty is completed and now I must leave." What Nanak says is that if you stop putting yourself in the middle, and stop getting in your own way, you will find the Path of Paths. Then you needn't worry about other paths. Leave all to Him and be thankful for whatever He has caused to happen for you, for whatever He is making you do this moment, for whatever He will cause you to perform. All praise unto Him! Give Him a blank check of gratitude. Whatever He has chosen for you and through you, whether you liked it or not, whether you were praised or blamed, whether people called it your good fortune or misfortune, let there not be even a trace of difference in your thankfulness. Nanak sees only one path and that is: You are the formless, the almighty, You who abide forever. I am too small, like a wave in the ocean. I leave everything to You. You have given me so much. Your bounteous grace pours all the time everywhere; so much so that if I were to give myself as an offering a thousand times, it would be too insignificant. He knows only one path: Whatever pleases You is best for me.

Generally this feeling comes about after a person has tried his very best to get out of some trying circumstances. Having made full use of his sense of doing, he finds himself defeated on all sides, and then he turns to Him in desperation, leaving everything to Him; but this is no real surrendering. From the very beginning you should not make any effort to change your circumstances, but leave everything in His hands. Nanak's concept of supreme surrender is the ultimate spiritual path, the highest practice of a devotee. Then you needn't worry about choosing a path or method or scripture. You needn't worry about logic or proof of any philosophy; you have no use for any of these. The devotee rids himself of all these in the one stroke of surrender. He leaves everything at one time and cries out: "Thy way, not mine, O Lord! Thy will be done!" Experiment a little and you will understand. Nanak is no philosopher. He has not written a scripture, his words are the expression of his inner feelings. He is giving voice to his own experience. You will have difficulty at every step because of the ego, whose very cry is: I know what is right and what should be. There is a short story by Tolstoy: The god of death sent his angel to earth as an emissary to bring back the soul of a woman who had just died. The angel found himself in a dilemma because the woman had given birth to triplets. All three were girls: one was still sucking milk from the dead mother, another was crying and the third was so exhausted that it had fallen asleep. Such was the state -- three little babies, the mother lying dead and no one to look after them, since the father was already dead and there was no one else in the family. The angel returned without the woman's soul and told the god of death: "Forgive me, I did not bring back the woman's soul. You can't be aware of what I have just witnessed: there are three little babies that this woman has given birth to, one still suckling at her breast. There is no one to care for them. Can't you allow a little time to the mother so that the girls are big enough to look after themselves?" "So you have become very clever and wise, it seems," said the god of death, "perhaps wiser than he who wills both death and life to all mortal beings. You have committed the first sin for which you shall be punished. You will have to return to earth and, until such time as you laugh three times at your own foolishness, you shall not return." Understand this: laugh three times at your foolishness. The ego always laughs at the nonsense of others. When you can laugh at you own absurdity, the ego breaks. The angel readily agreed to undergo the punishment. He was quite certain he was right under the circumstances, and wondered how he would find an opportunity to laugh at himself. He was ejected from heaven. It was almost winter. A cobbler, who was on his way to buy warm clothes for his children, came upon a poor man, bare to the bones and trembling in the cold. It was none other than our friend the angel. The cobbler felt sorry for him. Instead of buying the children's clothes with his hard-earned money, he went and bought clothes and a blanket for the naked man. When he also came to know that he had nothing to eat and nowhere to go, he offered him the shelter of his own house. However, he warned him that his wife was bound to get angry but he should not be upset, everything would be all right later on. The cobbler arrived home with the angel. Neither the cobbler nor the wife had any idea who he really was. As soon as they entered the door the wife fired off a volley of abuse at her husband for what he had done. The angel laughed for the first time. The cobbler asked him why he laughed. "When I have laughed again I shall tell you," he answered, knowing that the cobbler's wife was unaware that the very presence of an angel who was her unwanted guest would confer a thousand benefits. But how far can the human mind see? For the wife it was a loss of warm clothing for the kids. She can only see the loss, but not what had been found -- and free of cost, at that. So he laughed, because she didn't know what was happening around her. Within seven days he learned the shoemaker's trade, and within a few months the cobbler's fame had spread far and wide. Even kings and noblemen ordered their shoes here, and money began to flow in an endless stream. One day the king's servant came to the shop, bringing special leather in order to have a pair of shoes made for the king. "Take care you make no mistakes, for this is the only piece of leather of its kind," said the servant. "Also, remember, the king wants shoes and not slippers." In Russia, slippers are worn by a dead person on his last journey. The cobbler gave special instructions to the angel to be extra careful with the king's orders, or else they would be in trouble. In spite of this the angel made slippers for the king. The cobbler was beside himself with rage. He was certain now he would be hanged. He ran to beat the angel with his stick. The angel laughed out loud at the very moment that a man came running from the king's court, saying, "The king is dead. Please change the shoes into slippers." The future is unknown; only He knows what is to be. Man's decisions are all based on the past. When the king was alive he needed shoes, when he died he required slippers. The cobbler fell at the angel's feet and begged forgiveness. The angel replied, "Don't worry. I am undergoing my own punishment." And he laughed again. The cobbler said, "What makes you laugh?" The angel said, "I laughed for the second time because we do not know the future and we still persist in desires which are never fulfilled, because fate`has different plans. The cosmic law works, destiny is set out, and we have no say in the matter. Yet we raise a hue and cry about things as if we are the makers of our destiny. The king is about to die, but he orders shoes for himself! Life is drawing to a close and we keep planning for the future." Suddenly the angel thought of the triplets: I did not know what their future was going to be. Then why did I intervene unnecessarily in their affairs? Soon the third event took place. Three young girls, accompanied by an old rich woman, came into the shop to order shoes. The angel recognized the girls as the daughters of the dead woman who had been the cause of his punishment. All three girls were happy and beautiful. The angel asked the old woman about the girls, and she said, "These are the three daughters of my neighbor. The mother was very poor, and died while nursing her new-born babies. I felt pity for such helpless babies and, since I had no children of my own, I adopted them." Had the mother been alive, the girls would have grown up in poverty and suffering. Because the mother died the girls grew up in riches and comfort, and now they were heirs to the old woman's fortune. They were also to be married into the royal family. The angel laughed for the third time. He told the cobbler, "My third laugh is because of these girls. I was wrong. Destiny is great, while our vision is limited to what we can see. What we cannot see is so vast. We cannot imagine the enormity of that which we cannot see and of that which is to be. Having laughed at my foolishness three times, my penalty is completed and now I must leave." What Nanak says is that if you stop putting yourself in the middle, and stop getting in your own way, you will find the Path of Paths. Then you needn't worry about other paths. Leave all to Him and be thankful for whatever He has caused to happen for you, for whatever He is making you do this moment, for whatever He will cause you to perform. All praise unto Him! Give Him a blank check of gratitude. Whatever He has chosen for you and through you, whether you liked it or not, whether you were praised or blamed, whether people called it your good fortune or misfortune, let there not be even a trace of difference in your thankfulness. Nanak sees only one path and that is: You are the formless, the almighty, You who abide forever. I am too small, like a wave in the ocean. I leave everything to You. You have given me so much. Your bounteous grace pours all the time everywhere; so much so that if I were to give myself as an offering a thousand times, it would be too insignificant. He knows only one path: Whatever pleases You is best for me.

IM sorry but i don't know of exact quote from our guru about Suicide, but from what i know it is cannot be justified. Life is a GIFT. To kill yourself is to throw that gift of life in the face of waheguru. The Past is not in your hands, but the Present is. You make your destiny by each breath you take in the Present. Forget about what has happened. Each breath is a fresh start. Start from now and look forwards. Make Each breath given to you count by sharing this Gift of life with JOY with everyone. You are the Master of your own Destiny. Remeber this. If you don't like your life, then Change it. Don't quit. What good will it do. You will further put bad Karma on yourself. You will further suffer in your future births. Who's to say you will get another chance to get a birth in human form when you throw away when waheguru himself with grace gave you one. If you want kill yourself, then kill your ego, then kill your anger, kill your hatred, kill your greed..... Kill that which needs killing, but why are you killing the house of God. why are you Destroying the Temple of God in which he resides. You will not destroy a Gurdwara but yet you will destroy the real house of God. If all the doors are closed to you then create new doors. Share your sorrow with Waheguru himself. Tell him that you are troubled in his world. He WILL AND ALWAYS DOES LISTEN. Be patient for the time will come when you look back at this and will think how could i think of doing such an act. Who is stopping you from seeing guru ji and his sangat?? if such Sangat is stopping you then it is for a reason that they are not the real Sangat of Waheguru. the True Guru will not Judge anyone, The true Sangat will not Judge anyone. A man who was full of sin, who murdered people. Robbed thousands his whole life went to a Sant and asked him if he could become his deciple. That he wanted to find god, that he had spent his whole life hurting others and finally he has realized his mistakes and want to change. The guru looked at him with a strange look and told him he cannot keep him as a deciple who has killed other and has only hurt others his entire life. How can i keep you. The man with dissappointment walked away. Later that day, the sant went to meditate in his room, for some reason he couldnot meditate, his mind was wandereing all around. He could not center his mind. He was in great despair taht what has happened, that his inner tranquility has dissapeared. So he prayed in his heart to wahegure to find whether he had dnoe soemthin wrong. At night he had a dream in this dream god himself came to him to answer his prayer and he asked again, god what have i done wrong that i cannot meditate on your name ne longer. God told him that the man who came to your door asking for asslym, Asking for forgivenss, that man. I have been keeping him alive for all these years even tho he continued to do bad things. I have been giving him the breaths of life, and finnaly he came to my door asking for Forgiveness, finnaly his eyes were opened, finnaly his heart had turned around to the Truth and you Turned him away. Whomever goes to the doors of waheguru, his prayer are never gone worthless. He is the Forgiver of all Forgivers. You should read Chopai sahib in Rehraas. or rather read the whole rehraas/5 banis. Read it carefully, with each word in your mind. Remember It is Never Too Late. NEVER.

You wouldn't know what god is, even those who live in Soceity don't know what god is or they choose not to accept it, which is an individual decision no one can force you to do so. Like i said earlier, you cannot change until you are willing to accept change itself. You will not and cannot find god until you are willing to look for him. But in neither of those situations does it nullify the existance of god. You are depending on society or your parents to tell you what god is or in some way influence you into thinking that there is god. The first question asked by man couldn't have been "Is there is a god?", but rather It must have been "Who Am I?" To find youself is to find god, and to find yourself you don't need Soceity. YOu need a path which leads you inwards which is Religion. You need someone who already has found himself a Guru, a Master. Science is the path of outwardness, but it can only lead you to the inside of your body, but cannot explain who you are. Humans are not flawed, what is Flawed is the Mind, but it will be that same mind that takes you to the Gurudwara, it is the same mind who will give money to the poor. But what is flawed are the Intentions of the Mind from which it does work. It is a selfish mind which does only to make its ego stronger. Flaw cannot come out of unflawless nature. If we are flawed then Nature is Flawed. From Truth only Truth can come out, not lies. The Flaw is the Illusion, Flaw is the Maya. Flaw is the curtain which is over your eyes. Flaw is a Dream. Flaw is the Ego which mind has created to seperate himself as an self-existing individual. It is the Flaw of the mind an illusion of the mind that it starts to believe in this flaw of EGO. The Ego which i talk about is the EGO which has seperated itself as the one who is the Doer behind his life. I Did this. I am. It is the Ego which is telling you that you are seperate from God, when that EGO desolves there will be no YOU, only him. As long as that I is there God cannot be. Only one can exist in your heart, either it will be YOU or GOD. YOu can't have the World and God residing in your heart. It is that same Ego which get hurt when someoen tells you that you are wrong. That EGO which tells you that you have accomplised something. When you bow to the SGGS you surrender your EGO. It is that EGO. That EGO which asks for acceptance from other when you have done something great for Soceity or an Individual. When you give money to the Poor, it is that EGO which steps up to accept the Thanks given to you by that poor man. I hope i explained that well.. please correct me if i said soemthing wrong Waheguru.

Veer Ideal Singh...i hope this answers your question: