nogroup singh

MARU, FIFTH MEHL: Page-1083 O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah, forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements. Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers, and consider yourself a traveller on this journey. O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord. || 1 || Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat. Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes. Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you. || 2 || Let your practice be to live the spiritual life. Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God. Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. || 3 || Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible; restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil. Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. || 4 || Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast. Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophetís Word. God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber. || 5 || Page-1084 He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth. He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart. He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish, who takes the Support of the Lordís Praise. || 6 || Always, at every moment, remember God, the Creator within your heart. Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses. Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision. || 7 || You must know in your heart that everything is temporary. Family, household and siblings are all entanglements. Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory; only Godís Gate is the permanent place. || 8 || First, is the Lordís Praise; second, contentment; third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities. Fifth is to hold oneís desires in restraint. These are the five most sublime daily prayers. || 9 || Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere. Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry. Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer; be a good child of God ó let this be your trumpet. || 10 || Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food. Wash away pollution with the river of your heart. One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. || 11 || Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride. Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight. Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. || 12 || To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted, and wash away pollution from within the heart. He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. || 13 || One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord, is the manliest man among men. He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave, who is blessed with God's Grace. || 14 || The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy. The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable. Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. || 15 || 3 || 12 ||

Also, I would like to add following discussion to this thread. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh Pyare jio, recently I encountered a bibi who was heavily influenced by islam. She wanted to have a debate with me. She seemed quite confident she was going to convince me about the superiority of Islam. I accepted. The angle she used was all about life after death. A few weeks later I was talking to another local Gursikh about this. He said this was so strange. He said in the office he worked, he too was approached, and also asked about life after death. He said not only this, but his brother who studies in a birmingham university was also asked the same questions. So was his sister, who is a teenager in a leeds school. We thought this cannot be a coincidnce that in the matter a two weeks four practicing sikhs are approached by muslims with exactly the same questions. These are just the people we know, how many more? Wondering about this, we came to the conclusion, that there must be some kind of organised approach to this. Quite possibly an egroup, which regularly lists questions which can be asked to all non-muslims, to question their faith, and then interest them in islam. Two weeks ago, I met another sikh who works as a teacher in a school. He said he has alot of muslim kids in his class. He said one of them even came up to him, put his arm around him, and said, "give me half an hour, and I will convince you islam is the only way." He said he was amazed at the level of confidence in these kids that they could say something like that to their teacher. Bibi: Bhaji, You sikhs believe in reincarnation. This is a completely absurd theory. It does not make sense. How can a human then become a pig? Das: Bhen ji, both sikhs and hindus believe in re-incarnation, but our belief is different in some areas, but the whole concept of re-incarnation is not about what a person becomes in their next life, but about escaping the cycle of life and death and becoming mukht. Bibi : But how do you become a pig from a human? Das: The body is just a vessel, only the soul is what is of value. This soul can be born in any vessel. Bibi: I do not accept this, I think it is absurd. Das: Bhen ji, that is your choice. A person after death is judged according to their thoughts & actions. It is according to this judgement, that they are honoured or dishonoured in the next life. But even this is not so important. The important thing is to be able to break the cycle in life and death, while alive. To be able to attain a spiritual plain and obtain mukhti. Then it does not matter what you will be in the next life, for you are free and merged with God. That is the key to re-incarnation, that one breaks free from this cycle. Bibi: Fine, but is sikhi the way? Judgement day will come upon us all. Das: Yes it will, and it happens everyday. Everyday we are judged, and every action we do has a re-action. But in the end to Judgement day will come, we call it the Dharam Raj, you call it different. Bibi: No, judgement day will come to everyone on this earth. The day will be beckoning, when Allah judges all, and the muslims will rise. Das: You mean the muslims will rise, ie. all the ones buried in coffins will rise again and you will have an army of zombies fighting against non-muslims. You find re-incarnation absurd, but you find this acceptable? Bibi: Islam is the truth, it is the only way. All those who are non-muslims will become muslims. Das: Judgement day as a concept is complete nonsense. It does not make sense. Bibi: How can you say that? Das: Bhen ji, relax and listen. Firstly you believe in a day. Why? God, Allah, Waheguru, does not believe in day and night, God is timeless. Day and night is a concept of man, and the result of the earth circling the sun. Why would God wait for a day to judge everyone. God is beyond that. It is a continuous process as in sikhi has with the Dharam raj. Do you believe God is not capable of judging people continuously. Why wait for a day? Them muslims who died centuries ago are then unlucky for they have had to stay in coffins all this time, decomposing, waiting for this day to come when they can be judged. Does this not seem an ineffective way, surely continuous judgement via dhram raj is more sensible, and God`s way is Truth. I see more truth in continuous judgement. Bibi: yes, but your way, turns a human into a pig? Das: Bhen ji, You are stuck on one silly point. God gives his beloved souls many many chances, it is they who choose whether to take this chance or not. If they do not then they come back in some form or another. Just because muslims do not like pigs, does not mean they are bad. A pig is part of Allah`s creation aswell, just like everything else. A person who is a friend of God, is also a friend on his creation. That person learns to love and appreciate everything God has created. Bibi: No, in islam there is only one chance, there is only one way, and you are judged according to it. Das: How can this be the way of God? Even a mother with a child. The child as it grows up makes thousands of mistakes, the mother sometimes gets frustrated, but never stops loving the child. The mother always forgives and has that compassionate nature. And we are talking of God. It is God who put that compassionate nature into the mother. How can we say God is not compasionate at all? The human will make thousands of mistakes in their life, no matter how holy they are, but God will always love them, help them, and be compassionate towards them. he gives them thousands of chances. Bibi: Yes, true a mother is compassonate and so must be God. l have to read deeper, maybe in islam you do get another chance. Das: Then if you do get another chance, then that chance has a form. Whether or not you accept it, then that is a form of re-incarnation, and non-acceptance of Judgement day theory. (Bibi goes quiet, revelation suddenly dawns upon her) Bibi: No, No, I will have to get back to you ... We will talk about this again.. Bibi left. waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh source: http://www.sikh-history.com/cgi-bin/Ultima...ic;f=1;t=001514

All, My whole intention to start this thread was to bring up few facts from Sikhism point of view. It has been reported that so many Sikhs were approached by muslims and they have asked this question and trying to make reincarnation absurd belief. Reincarnation and transmigration of the soul or Jivatma is a FUNDAMENTAL REALITY. I recommend the following materials for your probing into the reality of reincarnation and transmigration of soul: http://www.childpastlives.org/stevenson.htm http://www.pureinsight.org/pi/articles/2003/1/30/1400.html Reincarnation and transmigration isn't only an Indian teaching, it's Middle Eastern too. Have you guys heard of the Druze people? The Druze began as an Islamic reform movement during the 11th century. Druzes believe in the esoteric meaning of the Quran and the Bible. THEY ALSO BELIEVE IN REINCARNATION!! Check out the following for more info on the Druze "Muslims".I don't know if they like being called Muslim, I would say they are Islam Gnostics. Check out: http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Outback/9277/d4.htm http://www.onebodymindspirit.com/news_cent...s_EndsEarth.htm I also highly recommend all of you read the following books: Reincarnation: True Stories of Past Lives by Roy Stemman

Darshan Kaur ji, he didn't take five deciples behind the tent at the same time but it was one after another. He asked for head for sure and that was to see the gutts. Have you watched new released movie Bhagat singh? In which, chandershekhar Azad tells him that whatever they were doing not a play of kids, and all of sudden Bhagat Singh puts his hands on candle fire. Now, it showed his dedication and gutts and he wasn't doing any miracle but he was trying to prove himself. Now for Khalsa establishment Guru ji didn't try to show people miracle and he wasn't there for games as well but his intention was to choose the best five to lead Khalsa panth. Just imagine how brave those fives were? I mean in that huge crowd only 5 stood up and gave their head? So, main reason to do this was to choose five the best from all those were sitting over there. Five heads repersent "True dedication" not that guru ji asks us all to cut our head and give it to him. He wants to see every sikh dying for Sikh faith and ready to give his head if there is need to save Sikhism. This was the message. It doesn't matter what he did behind the tent and please don't go for the fantasy of that establishment day. Real intention was to get five dedicated deciples the ones will lead Khalsa Panth. I have written Guru ji's intention. If you don't want to get the message he gave through his khalsa establishment then its your own personal choice but the question you have asked above can be anwsered in only one condition if Guru ji shows up and tells us by himself. I would prefer to get his message of Khalsa establishment rather than what he did on that day. I hope it helps....

CASTE IN BRITAIN by SAT PAL MUMAN LONDON E-mail: satpal_m@hotmail.com Chairperson, distinguished audience and friends, It is indeed a very great honour that I have been given this opportunity to address you in this pioneering conference organised by the Voice of Dalits International. The officers of this organisation deserve to be congratulated for raising such a sensitive subject as the cause of the Dalits on an international platform. The Dalits of India are engaged in a bitter battle to establish their dignity and self-respect which is the birth right of every citizen. It is entirely appropriate that at the turn of the second millennium celebrating the Birth of Christ that we have availed ourselves of this opportunity to raise consciousness about those whose lives continue to be a misery since millenniums past! Perhaps it's a first conference of its kind being held in Britain to tackle the vital issues affecting the Dalits. I am mindful of the time constraints that I have and shall therefore endeavour to put across my points of view in the time that has been allotted. Whilst I make no pretences to be an expert in the field the views expressed here are views any concerned layman associated with the Dalit cause would express. Caste in Britain is a very relevant subject to tackle and in this address I have only covered very specific areas, that of the Media, and how a particular community in Britain is promoting and keeping alive Caste Consciousness thorough the medium of music and how we can address Issues of Casteism in relation to British Law. I came to Britain in the late 60s from a remote village in India. I had the good fortune to have received education here. I remember, very distinctly, that when I was in the fourth in the early 70s, my Geography teacher, whilst discussing population control with respect to India, as an aside, asked the class a question about India. He asked the class to say what the most distinguishing feature of India was. The class could not respond thinking it was a trick question. My own mind began to wonder about animals, goats, cows and buffaloes etc that roam the fields and little children playing in dirty streets etc. However, because there was no reply forth coming from the class the teacher announced the answer and said that the most distinguishing feature of India was The Caste System. In the early 60s and 70s there was a mass influx of immigrants from the Indian sub-continent. They were mostly migrant workers seeking fresher pastures to improve their lot. Many of those arriving were from India and many also arrived from East Africa(Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda) etc. Over the last thirty years we have witnessed a steady rise in people of various nationalities with their diverse histories, cultures, beliefs and languages who arrived and settled here making Britain their home. I remember that 30 years ago when the numbers were small there was a sense of kinship amongst fellow compatriots. People were simply viewed as Indians or Pakistani first and language or culture was only of secondary importance. As their numbers increased they began to establish their own newspapers some in English others in their local vernacular Punjabi, Hindi, Gujarati Etc. They have established temples, businesses and now they run their own Radio and Television Stations. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar leader of the so-called Untouchables remarked that wherever the Hindu will go he will take his Caste System with him. In modern Britain Caste System is not only just "alive and kicking" but is actively being promoted in the media. Not only have the Indians brought their ?Indian curry? to Britain but they have also brought their Caste System with them. Whilst the Indian curry may be enjoyed by all, the Caste System is not so palatable and leaves an indigestion. David Haslam in his book Caste-Out on page 4 quotes a book "Caste and Class: Dynamics of Inequality in Indian Society" by Raja Jayaraman in which he says that Caste System is "a type of social stratification in which an individual's social status, that is his or her prestige and honour are determined by his or her birth into a particular Caste .. He says that this status is directly linked to his or her Caste Group within the hierarchy of Caste". I will add that amongst the many ways Dr. Ambedkar blasted the Caste System in his book Who were the Shudras, Dr. Ambedkar describes the Caste System "as a social heirarchy in which there is an ascending scale of reverence and a descending scale of contempt. This Hierarchy of inequalities is sanctified by religion based on the Theory of Chaturvarna and is fixed and permanent". Another characteristic of the Caste System is that whosoever is born in it propagates it to their descendants in ways biological genes are propagated. Although, through evolution, genes may mutate but The Caste System, due to its Religious sanction, is beyond mutation. As I have indicated earlier there is a thriving Asian Media in Britain providing variety of services. There are many cases and incidents that occur in Britain where prevalence of Caste and its bearing on the Asian community can be directly shown. For my evidence I have taken random samples from what is put out in the media as evidence that Caste is alive and kicking in Britain. But before I present this evidence I want to communicate to you the demographic nature of the ethnic mix found in Britain and some concerns I have about raising the subject of Caste so publicly and the consequences this may have. One concern that I have is this: Asians are already victims of racism in Britain. There may be a curious affect caused whereby the indigenous community may use the Caste divisions amongst the Asians as a weapon of further oppression. The Asians could be accused of in-fighting and those Asians who are fighting against Racism itself may see their work being undermined by our outcry against Caste. Some thought ought to be given to this as to how best we can achieve our goals notwithstanding the fact there will certainly be a backlash at least from the conservative elements of the Indian community for placing Caste System in the public domain. The Right wing Fascists could also use this to further their aims. The young British Asians are growing in an admixture of Eastern and Western Culture. Having been exposed to affects of Racism, the young Asians are expressing their identity through capitulating into their own cultures. Examples I have taken show how the young are reverting back to their communities in search of their own ethnic cultures. Those belonging to the so called higher castes view their superior social position as an advantage. A kind of social security; a kind of kinship amongst fellow Caste men. Having been victims of Racism themselves, the Asians have fallen foul of Caste Consciousness causing them to treat their compatriots less favourably then would otherwise be the case. Mark Tully, a long serving BBC correspondent based in India and an apologist for the Caste System, in his book "No Full Stops in India" writes on page 7 as follows: "The Caste System provides security and a community for millions of Indians. It gives them an identity that neither Western science nor Western thought has yet provided, because Caste is not just a matter of being a Brahmin or an Untouchable: it is also kinship system. The system provides a wider support group than the family: a group which has a social life in which all its members can participate." Mark Tully was severally criticised for holding these views on Caste. As history often repeats itself, Hindus are likely to defend the obnoxious system in similar terms. (Incidentally, Mark Tully no longer works for the BBC. He was forced to resign when he fell out with BBC). If you look at the way Indians have set up their temples, temples which are not only places of worship but also substitute as community centres, you will see that not only is there a religious divide but there sectarian sub-divisions within the religions. For example you will see Valmikis temples, Ravidasia temples, whole range of Hindu temples named after myriads of gods/goddesses and a whole variety of Sikh Temples e.g. Ramgarhia, Bibi Nanaki, Dashmesh Temple, Guru Nanak etc etc. The common denominator is not merely a religious separation but the dividing element is the underlying Caste System. According to the last census held in Britain in 1991 the population of Britain is at 55 million out which 3 million people (5.5%) belong to the ethnic minorities. Out of the various ethnic minorities present the Indians represent a figure of 840, 255 of which 42% are actually born in Britain. The Punjabi language is the most commonly language spoken amongst the British Asians (52% overall over all, which includes 95% of all Sikhs and 74% of Pakistanis). Urdu follows at 31% and then Hindi(27% overall including 70% of all Gujaratis) and then Gujarati at 25%. Although no official figures are available on the size of religious communities it is estimated that there are around 130,000 Buddhists between 400 - 555,000 Hindus and over 1.5 million Muslims and between 350- 500,000 Sikhs. The areas in which the Indians have mainly settled include the Midlands and the South East. The figures quoted above are from the 1991 census. Since then there has obviously been a sizeable increase in population of Asians and there is also a tremendous cultural output at the same time, especially in the field of Punjabi music. If you tune into your Sunrise Radio or your Radio Exel or any of the regular ethnic Radio stations, you will hear news, views and Punjabi Bhangra music being broadcast. Music Videos are regularly broadcast on numerous television stations like Zee TV, Asianet, Sony TV, Lashkara and others. You have programmes like Top Ten, Up Beat, Music Fusion, Hit Music etc which the young tune into for the latest hits! I have indicated earlier that Punjabi is the most commonly spoken language amongst the Asian and to many young Punjabis the Bhangra music has proved to be the cultural refuge they were seeking. There are many programmes dedicated to Bhangra music and many Punjabi folk believe that Bhangra music has been the restitution of their withering culture and views as the saviour of the young from the clutches of the decadent West. Bhangra Music with its catchy Dholak beats provoke and enthral the listeners to rhythms of dance and ecstasy. Bhangra is the hallmark of a Punjabi. But wait! This is not all joy! One of the dominating Castes amongst the Punjabis are the Jats. The Jat Caste is one of the sub-Castes of the Sudra Caste in the Punjab. Jats are in the main landlords and farmers and consider themselves to be of a superior stock than any of the so called Untouchable Castes; especially the Chamar Caste which is the dominant Untouchable Caste in the Punjab and also here in Britain. We are well aware that the landless Untouchables are at the mercy of the feudal landlord Jats. The Jats in the Punjab are the main oppressors of the Untouchables. Not only does the Jat thinks he is superior by virtue of his Caste, he is also in the nasty habit of making his views publicly known and also makes a big song and dance about it. Many songs and ballads are composed which are set to the tunes of Bhangra music. The Ballads are written to show that the Jat is the only creature beholden to greatest of virtues, the greatest of emotions of sadness, joy, happiness and elation. The Jat is the greatest lover the greatest dancer. The Jat proclaims his Caste antecedents for his greatness. However, I have yet to see a Jat proclaim to be the greatest fool but the Jat obviously knows his limits. Here are some random occurrences of songs broadcast in the media that I have noted:- Date Time Broadcast Media Subject Saturday 22nd July 10:45 AsiaNet Song depicting Jat crying for his beloved Sunday 23rd July 16:25 East London Mela Sunrise Radio invite Bhangra Group to their public stand. The group open the program by singing that jat will sell all his harvest(grains and crops) to enable him to go to the see the Mela Monday 24th July 09:35 SunRise Radio The presenter Sevak opens the programme with a song I wish I was in the Punjab enjoying the luxuries of life like a Jat enjoys Thursday 27th July 09:15 SunRise Radio Same song Monday 31st July 09:40 Zee TV (S R G M ) I am Jamla Jat why don't you become my beloved Saturday 26th August 18:54 AsiaNet The Sons of Jats are having great fun Saturday 26th August 18:58 AsiaNet Oh the Jat has got intoxicated Those amongst us from the Punjab will know what I am attempting to explain. It fills me with outrage to see how the media is being manipulated by the Caste Jat to promote himself as bearer of greatness and superiority; A kind of self aggrandisement. The mention of Caste conjures up images of Caste Consciousness and Caste promotion. The young listening to these songs often wonder what it all means and the unavoidable imagery is created of Castes and Caste hierarchies and the so called upper Caste young are picking this up! Questions are raised in school playgrounds, colleges and even Universities where students enquire about others Castes. Questions of Caste are raised in pubs and clubs and on the factory floor. There was even a case of a Shopkeeper in Wolverhampton where the customer refused to take Change from the vendor lest they found there touch polluting and insisted that the change be placed on the counter to avoid contact. On the factory floor, again in Wolverhampton, we know of women of so called upper Caste Jats not taking water from the same tap from where the so called lower caste person drinks. I have even seen banners painted on car windscreens which read "Jattan de putt" imploring sons of Jats to be the greatest. One other glaring example of Caste prejudice occurred last year. The story goes that Sikh temples hold annual inter-temple sports tournaments. One such tournament was held in Birmingham where the Langar (sanctified food) will be served by one of the participating temples who happened to be belonging to the Ravidasia community. Whilst their teams participated in the tournament but the Langar did not get eaten by the majority Jats because it came from the Chamaars. On the question of matrimonial section appearing in the ethnic press, again I have taken some Random Samples:- Date Newspaper Matrimonial 16th June Des Pardes Khatri Family seeks Ramdasia family seeks .. Respectable Jat Sikh educated family seeks ? Educated Saini Sikh seeks .. Ramgharia Sikh Family seeks .. Tank Kshatriya Sikhs seeks.. 14th July Many Jat Sikhs? 28th July Kamboj Sikh Family ? 18th July Majabi Sikh.. 26th April Punjab Times Sikh Rajput .. 26th July Ravidassia Sikh parents seek .. Respectable Ravidasia Adharmi Matrimonial sections of the English speaking ethnic press also have Caste underpinning. There have been cases of physical violence against those who have broken through the Caste barrier and have undergone inter-Caste marriages or those who have eloped. From time to time we see members of the Hindu religious fraternity, a mahatama, a maharaj, a maharishi etc appearing Television enunciating some religious doctrine or the other. On Saturday 26th August on Zee TV in their programme "Out and About" an item was broadcast at 10:30. This item was an interview with one Hindu Maharaji who was an alleged expert on the Gita. He was asked a question relating to the central message of the Gita. He replied that the central message of the Gita was that we should uphold Chaturvarna and to do our duty accordingly. I can go on and on sighting numerous examples of Caste and its manifestations in the Media. Again, last year, The Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan held seminars on Manusmiriti and the ideals it portrays. The work was praised by majority of the audience as a most wonderful example of Sacred Literature Hindus have produced. I remember when some noises of dissent were raised they were quickly suppressed by the presenter and even some members of the audience began to quarrel amongst themselves. Due to the preponderance of ethnic minorities in Britain, the British Parliament enacted the Race Relations Act 1976 to give them some protection from Racial discrimination. Part 1 Section 1 of the Act reads as follows: A person discriminates against another in any circumstances relevant for the purpose of this Act If--- (a) on racial grounds he treats that other less favourably than he treats or would treat other person etc etc Section 3(I) gives meaning of Racial Grounds and Racial Groups as follows: Racial Grounds means any of the following grounds namely colour, race, nationality or ethnic or national origin Racial Group means a group of persons defined by reference to colour, race, nationality or ethnic or national origins and references to a person's racial group refer to any racial group into which he falls Article 3(2) says The fact that a racial group comprises two or more distinct racial groups does not prevent it from constituting a particular racial group for the purposes of this ACT. Whilst no firm conclusion can be drawn as to whether Casteism is Raceism - I believe the Jury is still out on this, I propose the Race Relations Act 1976 should be amended and brought up to date to include Casteism. The above definitions that of Racial Groups and Racial Grounds should specifically incorporate Caste in addition to colour, Race, nationality etc. This change is needed now as Caste discrimination is likely to play a key role in the future as we move towards an ever increasing Asian population in Britain. The British law will need be brought into line with an emerging new social order in Britain. Legal precedence has already been set by the Indian Constitution when dealing with Discrimination based on Caste. Article(15) on Fundamental Rights covers Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth. Article(16) (2) on Rights to Equality reads that No citizen shall, on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, descent, place of birth, residence or any of them, be ineligible for, or discriminated against in respect of, any employment or office under the State. Clearly this move to incorporate Casteism into British will have wider implications for the world as a whole. Laws which address Discrimination based on Racism should take cognisance of Casteism and place it on par with Racism. With these words I thank you for your time. References 1. Caste Out, David Haslam, CTBI, Inter-Church House, 35-41 Lower Marsh, London SE1 7RL. 2. No Full Stops In India, Mark Tully, Penguin Press 3. Who Were The Shudras, Dr. B R Ambedkar, Govt of Maharashtra, India 4. Race Relations ACT 1976 5. Ethnic Minorities In Britain, CRE Factsheet copyright: ambedkar.org

Gurtej Singh (The following article was published in Abstracts of Sikh Studies, April-June 2000) One of the most intriguing questions of modern times is the non-conversion of Dr. B.R.Ambedkar and his followers to Sikhism after having made a clear decision to that effect. There is a school of scholars who would like to find fault with the Sikh leadership which they claim thwarted his sincere efforts in order to prevent the Sikh faith being inundated by his five crore followers. Assumption is that it consciously discouraged his conversion. It is also held that Dr.Ambedkar became wary of Sikhism on seeing the prevalence of caste system amongst the Sikhs. If it were true, these circumstances would have far reaching effects on the destiny of Dalits, Sikhs, Hindus and consequently that of India. Fortunately, besides being opposed to facts, it is also opposed to logic and common sense. Some others who do not subscribe to it fail to understand how Dr.Ambedkar was obliged to follow the lead of uninformed Sikh leaders since he was converting with at least five hundred percent more followers than there were Sikhs in all the world at that time. They also find all the available evidence to be contrary to the assumptions of doubting school. These positivists notice overwhelming evidence to show that the Sikh leadership overstrained their resources in every way to encourage Dr.Ambedkar and the Dalits. They also cite evidence to show that it was M.K. Gandhi who put his entire weight in the balance on the non-conversation plan and that this proved too formidable even for Ambedkar. This would once again happen to him at the time of Poona pact. This view disturbs the negativist school to the point of making them hysterical in support of the good intentions of Gandhi. They fail to see how else could he have acted, being a good Hindu as he was. This brings in the question of Gandhi's motives, which is not strictly relevant to the main issue of knowing the history of Dr. Ambedkar's aborted attempt. Dalits would like the support the negativist thesis because it ultimately absolves their ideal from neglecting the real interests of his followers. As it is, they are hard put to justify his submission at the time of Poona Pact. Worshippers of Gandhi also find it more politic to support them. The Hindus have no objection to this thesis since Gandhi eternally secured to them unpaid slaves who have been serving that society for many thousands of years. The whole world is with them today but for a few ugly little facts amply laden with truth and logic, which render the assiduously built argument a nullity in no time. For a short while before joining the Indian Police Service, I taught history and public speaking at Gurmat College, Patiala to post graduate students. This was one of the most satisfying of my experiences. I came in contact with some of the most remarkable men of the age. The legendary Bhai Sahib Singh, a perfect gentleman, was a kind colleague. Equally remarkable in his own way was Sardar Narain Singh, tireless and fiery Sardar Hari Singh Shergill was also a part of the management. Shergill's Namdhari friend, Sant Inder Singh Chakarvarti author of the epic Hind di Chadar was a very sensitive poet and a an excellent conversationalist. Amongst the three or four others must be mentioned the, humble, great and politically wise, Yadavendra Singh Maharaja of Patiala and the totally non-communal and extremely sensitive scholar Professor Ramesh Walia, who in Patiala was the greatest supporter of the concept of Sikh Homeland formulated by Sirdar Kapur Singh. Sardar Narain Singh had been manager of Sri Nankana Sahib Gurdwara. In that capacity he had been associated with the founding of the Khalsa College at Bombay and also the interconnected bid by Dr. Ambedkar to convert to Sikhism. Once he spoke at length about the episode amongst a few friends. I was permitted to take notes. These came in handy when I was invited by an organization at Ludhiana to speak on Dr.Ambedkar. The talk was appreciated. So for the benefit of the general reader I converted it into an article which was carried by the Punjabi Tribune of May 6, 1990. During the period I was working with a political setup in which Sardar Atma Singh was an important leader. He saw my article and confirmed that the facts mentioned by me were exactly as he had witnessed them. We all know that he had worked at Nankana Sahib had appropriately financed the Khalsa College at Bombay and had supervised the attempted conversion. I was reasonably certain about the facts, as I had earlier heard the account from another actor in the episode. Bawa Harkrishan Singh, who lived in the neighborhood of the great Sirdar Kapur Singh at Chandigarh and was a frequent visitor to his place. The article written by me on the subject was in the nature of a document. It was, therefore published in a book entitled Kichh Suniai Kichh Kahiai From this book, it was used by a magazine and from that magazine it was taken up by The Daily Ajit, which published it on October 20, 1995. I received several comments on the issues raised by this article. It became imperative for me to react to them. I pointed out that it was not right for anyone to pretend that I am somehow popularizing my own private views. The article in question was based on unassailable accounts of some of the most reliable eye-witnesses to the events. I discussed the matter with Sardar Jagjit Singh and he said that it was a good thesis to pursue further. We did not know at that time that the tireless Sardar Narayan Singh had recorded all the facts of the discussion with us at Patiala, in a pamphlet in Punjabi, entitled, 'Khalsa College Bombay Kiyon te Kiven'. II After the sudden demise of Sardar Jagjit Singh on March 10, 1997, Abstracts of Sikh Studies announced a memorial number in his honour. Remembering his wish on the subject and his life-long work for eradication of caste system, I decided to pay my respects to him through the present article. This however, could not be published all these years and has come to me in the old file when I took over as editor. I find it still relevant and worth carrying. It is the third anniversary of Sardar Jagjit Singh's death and it is just right that we in the Institute must remember him, for he along with Sardar Daljit Singh was the founder of the Institute and consequently the Abstracts. Hence this article. Though it is a bit done up here and there, basically the same format has been retained. That is why it starts with a tribute to Sardar Jagjit Singh. I want to pay respects to him as one of the greatest and the saintliest of persons, I have known. How do I go about it? In his lifetime he was wary of accepting even a single word in praise. Taking advantage of his death, shall I inflict upon his memory whatever comes to my mind? Can I do this knowing that death does not destroy the essence of personality of jiwan mukta that he was? This is the teaching of his faith and mine. In the circumstances, I suppose, I have the only choice of paying him a brief subdued tribute. He did love understatements. Everyone who met him was impressed by his humility. I believe, I was with him on several occasions when he incarnated humility. At least one such moment can be preserved here. He was being taken to the operation theater for his last operation. I had just lifted him on to a stretcher and had tucked the small comb in his tiny silken white hair bun. Apart from his family members, there were two or three of us present in the room. Just before the journey started, he folded his hands and addressing us all said, 'during my association with you I must have made many mistakes and must have hurt you in several ways. Claiming to be your gurbhai, I humbly ask you to forgive me for it all'. My reply in behalf of all others, to which they assented later, was, 'we do not think that you would ever hurt anybody or make a mistake of this nature. In this regard we place you on the same pedestal as God'. Tears swelled up in his eyes on hearing it and he was unable to say anything, but gesticulated me not to speak thus. Gesticulation was in the nature of gentle admonition, which was all he had ever been capable of by way of violent disapproval of any opinion, all his life. His daughter-in-law, Bibi Amarjit Kaur told me not to say this because he had already disapproved of similar sentiments expressed by Principal Harbhajan Singh earlier in the morning. But I had already said it. All his life, one of his primary concerns was to see the total elimination of caste and racial prejudices from society. He did not hesitate for a moment when his eldest daughter, Dr. Parkashjit Kaur, asked his permission to marry a non-Jat Dr. Bhupinder Singh. I suppose, my tribute to him should be in that context. III It has been argued, while analyzing the cause for non-conversion of Dr. Ambedkar to Sikhism that Mr. Gandhi was right in wanting to prevent the Dalits from converting to Sikhism, because that was in the interest of his own community. Can that justify treating the Dalits as pawns in someone else's game? Especially, would that brush aside the immoral nature of his desire to prevent the emancipation of such a substantial part of humanity? My sole point, however, while trying to understand the role of Gandhi was that, although he was advertised as a non-communal national leader working for the welfare of all, he was at heart a sectarian person, a mere Hindu leader. Nothing much wrong has been found with at least this conclusion. Men of Gandhi's stature, who actually lived within such narrow boundaries around them, are as answerable to history as any one else and must not shirk that responsibility in the interest of truth. Thought must also be given to whether the best interest of the Hindu people lies in preserving the caste system and maintaining the Dalits in their pitiful state? Gandhi has been also been compared to Master Tara Singh, who also worked for the interest of his own community. Difference between the position of the two must be appreciated. Master Ji never pretended to be a secular leader and never had hegemonic designs over any other community. He was motivated by the means of preserving their wholly humanistic culture. Gandhi, on the other hand, displayed a majoritarian frame of mind and sought to replace British imperialism with a peculiar kind of tyranny of the permanent cultural majority in the garb of secular, democratic, republican pretensions. Had he openly supported the Hindu desire to resurrect the ancient Hindu glory with the help of political independence from the British, there would be nothing much to condemn him for. In that case the minorities would have known what they were in for in de-colonized India and would have either acquired adequate safeguards from the departing power, or would have at least stepped into the snare, if at all, with their eyes wide open. So camouflaged were his moves that of his four targeted victims, only some of the Muslims could discern them and actually escape the juggernaut. Sadly, the Dalits, who needed most to escape, were roped in. I take it to be repugnant to any sense of political morality, any sense of justice, that the Dalits, Tribals, a section of the Muslims and the Sikhs were duped and led into a situation detrimental to their best interests, primarily, by the smooth talk of Gandhi. Eventually Gandhi alone was instrumental in perpetuating the miserable condition of Dalits and the Sikhs. Together they constitute the duo of birds that this 'prophet of non-violence' killed with one stone. In the enlightened opinion of the most spiritually awake of souls of all ages, all people are entitled to political and spiritual freedom. This stands denied to a vast section of the Indian population. It is certainly wrong. There should be no objection to protesting on that score. It is clear as the sun at noon, that Gandhi's communal approach is also responsible for the vivisection of this great and ancient land of five rivers. Can history forgive that? Gandhi's desire to retain the Dalits in the Hindu fold was so intense that he took many measures, some of which merit being termed unethical, to ensure it. His fast in Yaravada jail was one such. The questionable manner, in which Dr. Ambedkar was cajoled to acquiesce in the subsequent Poona Pact, must remain one of the most sordid chapters of modern history. The ultimate aim of the fast was to dissuade the Dalits from living upto their resolve of converting to some other religion. It is clear that, since Sikhism was uppermost in the minds of their leaders, Gandhi's effort was to prevent their conversion to Sikhism. Direct evidence on the issue is available in the writings of Gandhi himself. Those interested are referred to Volumes 27,63 and 67 of his Collected Works, which reproduce several documents being used here. Pandit Madan Mohan Malviya, Jugal Kishore Birla, Dr. Moonje, and some others had decided that for their own good and for the good of the Hindu society, Dalits under the leadership of Ambedkar should be allowed to convert to Sikhism. This was formulated in the background of Gandhi's often-expressed views that he regarded the Sikhs as Hindus. "My belief about the Sikh Gurus is that they were all -- Hindus and that Guru Gobind Singh was one of the greatest defenders of Hinduism.--I do not regard Sikhism as a religion distinct from Hinduism". Not much opposition to conversion was expected from him, but he was not taken into confidence initially. Gandhi was informed of it later on in the strictest secrecy. He, in a breach of trust, published all this in his Haijan of August 22, 1936. The report he filed is in his own paper, is in the nature of loud alarm. 'A Dangerous Proposal' shrieked the headline, and the article went on to describe it as "fratricide" and a "calamity". He goes to the extent of pontifica ting that "it would not be so bad as if Harijans were called Christians or Muslims". He condemned those resposible for the proposal as "self constituted leaders". He kept up the campaign against them in personal correspondence and conversation. We find him assailing them once again in the harijan, dated September 19,1936. All evedence suggests that his objections were both religious and also political. "Sikhs have a separate electorate" and are not Hindus, he bemoaned. In a letter to Jugal Kishore Birla, he wrote on September 7, 1936, asking him to "persuade the Sikhs to accept that Sikhism is a part of Hinduism". "We do not find him examining dispassionately whether the conversions would benefit the Dalits and the country and would help in ridding Hinduism of the stigma of caste-system, as was the calculation of those who supported the conversion bid. Under these circumstances, any rightly motivated person would sympathize with the Dalits and not with Gandhi. How can one feel at one with the "oppressed and depressed" in the words of B.S. Murthyu, and yet admire one man responsible for their plight? If some would like to raise 'doubts about my ability to understand' on that account, they can do so again for I do not also understand how one can sympathize with pursuit of communal policy in the garb of upholding universal principles. In order to provide yet another opportunity to them; I also feel that Gandhi was being inhuman as he was taking measures to foil every Dalit bid to escape the noose of caste system. This he was doing to a helpless people, who had suffered so long and who trusted him so much. Any one having an iota of humanity in him would have wholeheartedly aided Dr. Ambedkar's bid to rid his people of the cruelest and the most demeaning system of caste in all human history. IV In my article I had held that Dr. Ambedkar was well informed about there being no caste system amongst the Sikhs. That was not what deterred him from converting to Sikhism, as is the popular, but uniformed belief. One plain reason in support of this is that there is no caste system amongst the Sikhs. Revealed text, the Gurbani, is there to support this proposition. The other is that the number of those seeking conversion was expected to be more than twenty times the total Sikh population. To me it is inconceivable that one-twentieth part of the population was deemed capable, by a perceptive man like Dr.Ambedkar, of imposing its social norms on the rest and that, in defiance of strict scriptural provisions. In contrast, the Hindu caste system is an inexorable arrangement related to ultimate salvation, is sanctioned by religious texts like the Manusmriti, preaching of thousands of saints and incarnations and the religious practice of at least five thousand years. Sikh scriptural position is just the opposite; from no Sikh pulpit can anyone dare to preach adherence to reprehensible caste philosophy. No Sikh Guru or Sikh saint has ever respected the caste system. Every Sikh unequivocally knows that it is not related to final salvation. The Sikhs also know that its observance is certainly detrimental to spiritual growth and ultimate goal of life. There is no tradition of belief in caste system in Sikh history; in fact, its condemnation is a part of many living Sikh practices and traditions including that of the langar. Some of the scholarly critics (which category includes certain motivated historians) may be surprised to know that for many a thinking mind all this constitutes a weighty argument against the existence of caste system amongst the Sikhs. I have often left uninformed prejudice against the Jat racial element in the composition of the Sikh Panth, is the ultimate cause of the belief of some of the scholars entertaining the unfounded belief. This prejudice was exploited fully by historians including Dr. Hew McLeod and was dexterously converted into a justification of sorts for the 1984 attacks on Sri Darbar Sahib and the Sikh people as a whole. It is no use quoting Sikh scholars like the erudite Sardar Jagjit Singh and his incomparable 'Jat Pat te Sikh', to this vategory, for the tendency to denigrate anything Sikh alone can sustain them in their baseless beliefs or hopes. Would they take the trouble of analyzing the Hindu caste system, they would know that nothing of this sort has existed in any other society at any time in history. There have been caste prejudices, inequality is the villain we can see stalking all societies in some subtle form or the other but the caste system as a system sustained by widespread religious belief is peculiar to Hindu society only. Those who reared pigs, for instance, were looked down upon in, ancient Egypt and so on. No sociologist has referred to this wayward social behaviour as 'caste system'. The Hindu world-view, however, has been so arranged that caste is built into every action, inaction and belief of a Hindu. It is the systematic application of hereditary inequality to every sphere of secular and spiritual life that Hindu caste system unique. Only those who fail to grasp the importance of the word 'system' in the phrase, end up believing that it prevails wherever small social prejudice becomes noticeable. To perceptible minds these are inconsequential deviations for they know that the building bricks of the caste system are entirely different. In his, The Rise And Fall of the Sikh Power, translation of which by Jadunath Sarkar was published in The Modern Review of 1911, Rabindra Nath Tagore observed regarding the work of Guru Gobind Singh, "he totally rooted up the caste system which was a strong obstacle....." In the same article, he further says," at a blow from Guru Gobind (Singh) the already weakened caste system tumbled down to the earth." One of the other persons to believe that caste system does not exist amongst the Sikhs, is Dr. B.R. Ambedkar himself. In 1936, the Jat Pat Todak Mandal of Lahore invited him to deliver a presidential address at its annual conference to be held in Lahore. He duly wrote the address and sent it to the Mandal. On seeing it, the Mandal had second thoughts about inviting him and escaped doing so by cancelling its annual conference. The undelivered address is published under the title of "Annihilation of Caste" and also forms a part of Dr. Baba Sahib Ambedkar: Writing and Speeches. In his very well formulated speech, he gives three reasons to believe that caste system does not exist amongst the non-Hindus - 1) "Ask a Sikh who he is? He tells you that he is a - Sikh. He does not tell you his caste..........So essential is caste in the case of a Hindu that without knowing it you do not feel sure what sort of a being he is, the caste has not the same social significance amongst the non-Hindu...2) "...The Sikhs --will not outcast a Sikh -- if he broke his caste.... But with the Hindus - he is sure to be outcasted if he broke caste."3) "Caste amongst the non-Hindus has no religious consecration, but amongst the Hindus, most decidedly it has. Amongst the non-Hindus, caste is only a practice, not a sacred institution. They did not originate it. With them it is only a survival. They do not regard caste as a religious dogma. Religion compels the Hindus to treat isolation and segregation of castes as a virtue.....if Hindus wish to break caste, their religion will come in their way." This is the belief of Ambedkar in the year 1936, the year most relevant for our purpose. Gandhi's attitude towards the same incident also reveals his true feelings about the position of caste in Hindu society. Sant Ram of the Mandal explained to Gandhi that the Mandal itself did not believe in the caste system, but was obliged to cancel the meeting only when Ambedkar insisted on announcing that (before the contemplated conversion to Sikhism) it "was his last speech as a Hindu." Since Ambedkar was abandoning Hinduism, the Mandal did not want to go ahead with the meeting and his address. In his Harijan of August 15, 1936, Gandhi wrote, "If the Mandal rejects the help of the Shastras, they do exactly what Dr. Ambedkar does i.e. cease to be Hindus. But it is pertinent to ask what the Mandal believes if it rejects the Shastras. How can a Muslim remain one if he rejects the Quran, or a Christian remain Christian if he rejects the Bible?" He goes ahead to hint at his theory about how the Shastras and caste are to be reconciled and rationalized, presumably, for mass consumption. Now the reader may judge whether he agrees with the negativist school or the positivist one and their conclusions. Those wearing the ill-fitting Punjabi identity, as opposed to the Sikh reality, appear to be trying to curry favour with the 'powers of the future'. Can baseless assertions, such as they make, serve any purpose at all? It can only be humbly pointed out to him that by discarding the wholly edifying ways of the great Sikh gurus, without wholehearted acceptance of which there is no salvation of mankind, they are committing a mistake. Guru's is the most valid philosophy of the future; "my Satgur is for ever and ever. Comings and goings are not for Him. He is the only Indestructible Person, Who resides in every human being for ever."

The Caste System and Its Evolution Through Time By Katherine Graham Throughout history and throughout many different cultures and countries discrimination based on one?s race, religion, social standing, and gender has been evident. Segregation and slavery in the United States, Apartheid in South Africa, the Holocaust originating in Germany, and discrimination against women throughout the world are all examples of the horrors of discrimination that so many countries have faced. However, one of the most severe and most long-standing cases of discrimination is found in the exotic country of India, a land that is mystified for its religion and culture. Though within these mystical attractions of India there lies a darker side, the caste system, one of the worst tools ever used for discrimination. The caste system finds its origin within the many beliefs and practices of the Hindu religion. Hinduism teaches that human beings are divided into four categories: the Brahmins who have white skin, the Kshatriya who have red skin, the Vaisyas with yellow skin, and the Sudras with black skin. Though these categories appear to be based solely on skin color, Hinduism states otherwise, for each hue or color actually refers to an attribute of that person. The Brahmins with white skin are thought to possess goodness, the Kshatriya with red skin possess passion, the yellow skinned Vaisyas have both passion and goodness, while the black skinned Sudras are attributed with darkness.(Four Orders par.1) The Hindus followed these divisions of the caste system strictly; however, these beliefs became more severe during Aryan invasions over 4,000 years ago. The Aryans originally wanted only to separate themselves, being light skinned, from the darker skinned Dravidians of southern India. These divisional practices, which at one time helped to categorize the many diverse groups of India and gave them a better sense of unity, eventually transformed into a more severe system of many rules and regulations.(Casting 17) The four main rules that pertain to all castes and to those belonging to them are: * Caste members can socially mix with only those belonging to their caste. * Caste determines where each member can live. * Caste determines what an individual may eat and drink. * Caste determines how each member may earn a living.(Casting 17) The two most prominent of these rules are those which forbid social movement within the castes and the rules which determine how each person may make a living. Persons who find themselves in violation of either of these two rules know that their punishment will be harsh. For example, in 1994 in Bihar, a northern state in India, a girl of a lower caste eloped with an Untouchable boy, the Untouchables consist of all who do not belong to any other groups and are therefore outcastes (Mayhew 208). The two were discovered and with the approval of the village council, a stone was used to smash in the boy?s head, while the girl was branded with a burning log and then whipped repeatedly, acts that seem unreal to be occurring in the 1990?s.(Casting 17) The separation of the castes based on occupation proves to be another source of strict ruling. The Brahmins consist of the priests and the scholars who must establish and preserve the ideals of the nation. The Kshatriyas are the rulers and warriors of their country, while the Vaisyas are merchants and professionals and the Sudras serve as servants and laborers.(Mayhew 208) Finally, there are the Untouchables who wander the streets, for they belong to no caste and are therefore refused work that would in turn bring them a source of income. They resort to labors such as street sweeping and toilet cleaning.(Under Attack 54) The Hindus believe in reincarnation, the process by which people's souls return to the living world again in another form. A Hindu?s goal is to fulfill his dharma, the destiny a person must fulfill in his lifetime, so that when reincarnated his soul may return as something better. Therefore, the punishment for disregarding the rules of the caste system do not necessarily occur in the lifetime in which the crime was committed but rather in the person?s next life. Spiritual punishment would occur for example, if an Untouchable were dissatisfied by his life and attempted to better himself by obtaining a job as a merchant. He would not have fulfilled his dharma (to live his life as an Untouchable) and thus, he would return in his next life as an Untouchable or an animal. The devotion with which the Hindus follow their religion obviously makes it difficult for people to better their lives and their jobs by moving through the restraints the caste system has placed on occupation. Hindus feel that their souls can advance if their lives are lived without complaint or disgrace. The previously listed rules and regulations that the caste system has placed upon its members have caused much concern throughout different groups and organizations in the world. Both the Indian government and the Buddhist religion have tried to uproot this system which still has a firm grip on many Indians. The Indian government outlawed the practice of the caste system in 1950 when India established its first constitution (Mayhew 208) and set up a system of reservations, similar to Affirmative Action, to ensure the fair treatment of ex- Untouchables.(Rudolph 20) The "reservations" require that some political offices in both parliament and state assemblies be held by ex-Untouchables as well as require that many educational scholarships be given to these individuals.(Rudolph 20) These reservations have brought with them both positive and negative changes. The percentage of educated Untouchables has increased due to the growth in open government jobs, schools, and universities.(Under Attack 54-55) However, with administration and education positions being held for ex- Untouchables, Indians who are possibly more qualified but of a higher caste are finding they can not get the jobs that they deserve. This is due to the fact that many jobs are open only to Untouchables because of the reservations.(Rudolph 20) Buddhism, though similar to Hinduism, disagrees with the caste system. The following quote from Buddha explains this belief: " In this sangha (religious order) all are equal. It is impossible to know Ganga water from Mahanadi Water after both have merged in the sea. In that way, after coming into the Buddhist sangha your caste goes, and all people are equal."(Hay 348) Despite these strong feelings of the Buddhists, they have been unable to impact a change on the strict caste system, for they are a minority population to the dominant Hindus. The Indian government continues to take measures to rid the country of the caste system and its discriminatory placements of people into a society where a person?s only way to really define himself is through his caste. The system is becoming a less important part of Indian culture as the status and influence of Untouchables grows. However, the caste system is deeply rooted within the culture of the Indian people and has been for thousands of years. "Like other new Western borrowings, concepts of equality in some ways seem to float on the surface of Indian life like leaves on the surface of a river which has existed years before the leaves were even buds." (Lamb 135) Time is needed to determine whether or not the changes made today will actually have an effect on the caste system of tomorrow. Changes that are imposed upon the caste system may take as long to up root it as has it has taken the caste system to grow the strong roots that it possesses. One chop of the farmer?s axe is hardly enough to even break t he bark of this deep-rooted tree. Bibliography NA. "Casting the First Stone." Economist 8 Oct. 1994: 17-18. NA. "The Four Orders of Human Beings." Hinduism. 21 pars. Online. Internet. 8 January 1999. Available: http.//www.hinduism.co.za/caste.htm Hay, Stephen. Modern India and Pakistan. Vol. 2 of Sources of Indian Tradition. 2 vols. New York: Columbia University Press, 1988. NA. "India: Caste System Under Attack As Human Rights Violation." Women?s International Network News Winter 1997: 54-55. Lamb, Beatrice Pitney. India A World in Transition. New York: Frederick A Praeger,Inc., 1965. Mayhew, George Noel. "Caste." World Book Encyclopedia. 1987 ed. Rudolph, Lloyd I, and Susanne Hoeber Rudolph. "Organized Chaos." New Republic16 March. 1998: 19-21. ************ The Beginning of the caste system ©Aharon Daniel There are different theories about the establishment of the caste system. There are religious-mystical theories. There are biological theories. And there are socio-historical theories. The religious theories explain how the four Varnas were founded, but they do not explain how the Jats in each Varna or the untouchables were founded. According the Rig Veda, the ancient Hindu book, the primal man - Purush - destroyed himself to create a human society. The different Varnas were created from different parts of his body. The Brahmans were created from his head; the Kshatrias from his hands; the Vaishias from his thighs and the Sudras from his feet. The Varna hierarchy is determined by the descending order of the different organs from which the Varnas were created. Other religious theory claims that the Varnas were created from the body organs of Brahma, who is the creator of the world. The biological theory claims that all existing things, animated and inanimated, inherent three qualities in different apportionment. Sattva qualities include wisdom, intelligence, honesty, goodness and other positive qualities. Rajas include qualities like passion, pride, valour and other passionate qualities. Tamas qualities include dullness, stupidity, lack of creativity and other negative qualities. People with different doses of these inherent qualities adopted different types of occupation. According to this theory the Brahmans inherent Sattva qualities. Kshatrias and Vaisias inherent Rajas qualities. And the Sudras inherent Tamas qualities. Like human beings, food also inherents different dosage of these qualities and it affects its eater's intelligence. The Brahmans and the Vaisias have Sattvic diet which includes fruits, milk, honey, roots and vegetables. Most of the meats are considered to have Tamasic qualities. Many Sudra communities eat different kinds of meat (but not beef) and other Tamasic food. But the Kshatrias who had Rajasic diet eat some kinds of meat like deer meat which is considered to have Rajasic qualities. Many Marathas who claim to be Kshatrias eat mutton. The drawback of this theory is that in different parts of India the same food was sometimes qualified to have different dosage of inherent qualities. For example there were Brahmans who eat meat which is considered Tamasic food. The social historical theory explains the creation of the Varnas, Jats and of the untouchables. According to this theory, the caste system began with the arrival of the Aryans in India. The Aryans arrived in India around 1500 BC. The fair skinned Aryans arrived in India from south Europe and north Asia. Before the Aryans there were other communities in India of other origins. Among them Negrito, Mongoloid, Austroloid and Dravidian. The Negrito have physical features similar to people of Africa. The Mongoloid have Chinese features. The Austroloids have features similar the aboriginals of Australia. The Dravidians originate from the Mediterranean and they were the largest community in India. When the Aryans arrived in India their main contact was with the Dravidians and the Austroloids. The Aryans disregarded the local cultures. They began conquering and taking control over regions in north India and at the same time pushed the local people southwards or towards the jungles and mountains in north India. The Aryans organized among themselves in three groups. The first group was of the warriors and they were called Rajayana, later they changed their name Rajayana to Kshatria. The second group was of the priests and they were called Brahmans. These two groups struggled politically for leadership among the Aryans. In this struggle the Brahmans got to be the leaders of the Aryan society. The third group was of the farmers and craftsmen and they were called Vaisia. The Aryans who conquered and took control over parts of north India subdued the locals and made them their servants. In this process the Vaisias who were the farmers and the craftsmen became the landlords and the businessmen of the society and the locals became the peasants and the craftsmen of the society. In order to secure their status the Aryans resolved some social and religious rules which, allowed only them to be the priests, warriors and the businesmen of the society. For example take Maharashtra. Maharashtra is in west India. This region is known by this name for hundreds of years. Many think that the meaning of the name Maharashtra is in its name, Great Land. But there are some who claim that the name, Maharashtra, is derived from the Jat called Mahar who are considered to be the original people of this region. In the caste hierarchy the dark skinned Mahars were outcasts. The skin color was an important factor in the caste system. The meaning of the word "Varna" is not class or status but skin color. Between the outcasts and the three Aryan Varnas there is the Sudra Varna who are the simple workers of the society. The Sudras consisted of two communities. One community was of the locals who were subdued by the Aryans and the other were the descendants of Aryans with locals. In Hindu religious stories there are many wars between the good Aryans and the dark skinned demons and devils. The different Gods also have dark skinned slaves. There are stories of demon women trying to seduce good Aryan men in deceptive ways. There were also marriages between Aryan heroes and demon women. Many believe that these incidences really occurred in which, the gods and the positive heroes were people of Aryan origin. And the demons, the devils and the dark skinned slaves were in fact the original residence of India whom the Aryans coined as monsters, devil, demons and slaves. As in most of the societies of the world, so in India, the son inherited his father's profession. And so in India there developed families, who professed the same family profession for generation in which, the son continued his father's profession. Later on as these families became larger, they were seen as communities or as they are called in Indian languages, Jat. Different families who professed the same profession developed social relations between them and organized as a common community, meaning Jat. Later on the Aryans who created the caste system, added to their system non-Aryans. Different Jats who professed different professions were integrated in different Varnas according to their profession. Other foreign invaders of ancient India - Greeks, Huns, Scythains and others - who conquered parts of India and created kingdoms were integrated in the Kshatria Varna (warrior castes). But probably the Aryan policy was not to integrate original Indian communities within them and therefore many aristocratic and warrior communities that were in India before the Aryans did not get the Kshatria status. Most of the communities that were in India before the arrival of the Aryans were integrated in the Sudra Varna or were made outcast depending on the professions of these communities. Communities who professed non-polluting jobs were integrated in Sudra Varna. And communities who professed polluting professions were made outcasts. The Brahmans are very strict about cleanliness. In the past people believed that diseases can also spread also through air and not only through physical touch. Perhaps because of this reason the untouchables were not only disallowed to touch the high caste communities but they also had to stand at a certain distance from the high castes. The Religious form of Caste System In Hinduism there exists four castes arranged in a hierarchy. Anyone who does not belong to one of these castes is an outcast. The religious word for caste is 'Varna'. Each Varna has certain duties and rights. Each Varna members have to work in certain occupation which only that Varna members are allowed. Each Varna has certain type of diet. The highest Varna is of the Brahman. Members of this class are priests and the educated people of the society. The Varna after them in hierarchy is Kshatria. The members of this class are the rulers and aristocrats of the society. After them are the Vaisia. Members of this class are the landlords and businessmen of the society. After them in hierarchy are the Sudra. Members of this class are the peasants and working class of the society who work in non-polluting jobs. The caste hierarchy ends here. Below these castes are the outcasts who are untouchable to the four castes. These untouchables worked in degrading jobs like cleaning, sewage etc. The first three castes had social and economical rights which the Sudra and the untouchables did not have. The first three castes are also seen as 'twice born'. The intention in these two births is to the natural birth and to the ceremonial entrance to the society at a much later age.

Just an passage from a book that I thought was interesting. (Sikhs in the Eighteenth Century: Their Struggle for Survival and Supremacy by Surjit Singh Gandhi) "During the period from the death of Guru Gobind Singh upto the last few decades (of the 1700s), there is not even a single example of a caste group asserting itself against another caste groups constituting Sikh society. The utterances and policies of Sikh leadership in the aforesaid period all point to the irrefutable conclusion that everything was decided by the Panth and for the Panth. The contribution of the Rangrettas or so-called low-caste people is as great as that of Jatts or Khastris or anyone else. If Kapur Singh and Jassa Singh were given the honor of becoming the leaders of the Sikhs, it was because they were true Khalsa committed to the Khalsa ideals. Had the caste-spirit existed in some substantial measure, it would have been exploited by the Mohammedan Government as well as by Ahmad Shah Abdali and his clever Wazir Shah Khan. "Then certain factors operated in such a way that caste-spirit began to manifest itself...The vetern Sikhs disciplined by Guru Gobind Singh himself had been martyred and their descendants forced to remain in exile with that result the congregation began to drift back to the old customs and beliefs. Those who came from the low castes began to be distinguished from those who came from the so-called high castes. The Sikhs could keep away caste-system only from the Misls whose membership was open to all and whose patronage was shared equally by all...The Sardars at the head of different Misls began to act as sovereigns. Now came the question of selection or appointment of their councillors and officials. They were also stalked with ambition of becoming all-powerful and absolutely independent of one another. That being the state of their minds, there arose mutual squabble among them. As a consequence, every Sardar began to resort to unfair means to have this end. "Accordingly, they appealed to the regional or tribal sentiments. The Sikh mission, having gone weak and slack, could not arrest this trend with the result that caste considerations received strength...When the Sardars began to look more towards their selfish gain, the caste consideration among the Jats also began to emerge on the scene side by side with the Sikh spirit. Since the majority of the Misl Sardars and their followers happened to be Jats, the power and prestige which the Misls acquired, where shared by them with the result that they began to take pride in their caste. "According to Ethne K Marenco, the emergence of caste and the caste considerations were clearly observed by the British observers of the late 18th century. The following excerpt from William Franklin's book Military Memoirs of Mr. George Thomas is an eloquent testimony to the veracity of the aforesaid thesis: "The Sieks allow foreigners of every description to join their standard, to sit in their company and to share their bread but excepting in the instance of the Jats, they will not consent to inter-marriges, nor will they eat or drink from the hands of an alien except he be a Brahmin and for this caste they will profess the highest veneration." "The mind of the Sikhs instead of making the degree of Sikhism the basis for social status began to work along the age-long grooves of the caste system. The emergence of castes and caste considerations among Sikhs was certainly an act of black-sliding and contrary to the social structure as perceived by the Sikh Gurus and embodied in their teachings. It is really a pity that the Sikh society of the 18th century could not realize the ideal of evolving into a coalesced single-class society."-

Let's discuss reincarnation. Do you believe in it? If you do then why? Does Sikhism supports it? Please, discuss it with reference and let's make our mind clear.

Jogi, You have missed reading this link, which is under "Sikhnet treasure of Sikhism" so please have a look and you would know why you see polygamy in schools text books. http://www.sikhnet.com/Sikhnet/discussion....D6?OpenDocument

King and Sikh are two different life styles. Ranjit Singh was great leader/king but it doesn't mean he was following Sikhism properly. Just search on his life and you would know. If he had 5 wives then it should not affect Sikhs or Sikhism because he was a part of Sikhism not Sikhism. It's like you are a Sikh but don't follow it properly so we can't go ask Sikhs that why you are not following it properly. Not just that but lots of other things as well. Anyhow, I will recommend that you read below discussions and then come to any conclusion. Guru Hargobind's wives http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....0F?OpenDocument Need to give my sister some advice, help! http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....11?OpenDocument take care

source: http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....62?OpenDocument Full discussion is below: http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....5F?OpenDocument Here is a site for Human rights violations. http://www.punjabjustice.org Amnesty International reports: http://www.punjabjustice.org/links.htm

<<<< Just pasting it here because its relevent to this topic >>> These are not my views. ARRANGED MARRIAGES - GOOD OR BAD? http://srd.yahoo.com/goo/arranged+marriage...9.10.15.50.html This article(((originally in Scientific America)) IT REappeared in a discussion thread ?.I cut it out and am posting it below?THE FACTS FOR MARRIAGE?.AS THE RESULT OF ?LOVE??.SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES? Running the Numbers Several recent studies suggest that the number of marriages in the United States and other Western countries is in a continual decline. A December 1999 article in Scientific American reports that 67 percent of American women aged 35 to 44 were legally married in 1998. From 1890 to 1940 this number averaged 81 percent, punctuated by an increase due to the wartime marriages associated with the baby boom. Numbers have been dropping ever since, a trend that is echoed in many other Western countries, most notably Canada, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, and Hungary. The author, Rodger Doyle, suggests that living together is replacing marriage and that women's economic independence, the availability of family-planning measures, and the increase in higher education have all contributed to both the postponement of marriage and to divorce. The National Opinion Research Center (NORC) at the University of Chicago confirms that many couples are choosing cohabitation over wedding bells. "The Emerging 21st-Century American Family," released November 24, 1999, was extrapolated from data from the General Social Survey (GSS), a broad study of American life which NORC has been conducting since 1972. For the 1998 survey, GSS researchers interviewed 2,832 randomly selected people 18 and over and found that the most common household arrangement, at 32 percent, consisted of unmarried people and no children. In 1972 the most common arrangement was married couples with children, at 45 percent, while in 1998 only 26 percent of the respondents lived in such households. The report also projected that. Such arrangements are further complicated by the fact that working mothers and dual-career marriages have become much more common: in 1972, only 33 percent of parents both held jobs, while in 1998, 67 percent of both parents worked. "Within marriage the changes have been profound as more and more women have entered the labor force and gender roles have become more homogenous between husbands and wives," said Tom W. Smith, the director of the GSS and author of the report. Barbara Dafoe Whitehead and David Popenoe are codirectors of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University. In June 1999, they published a study called "The State of Our Unions: The Social Health of Marriage in America," which found that the national marriage rate has dropped 43 percent over the last four decades. Their research suggests that many American teenagers have lost faith in their ability to find a lifelong partner. In an article from the Manhattan Institute's City Journal, Whitehead describes a "new mating regime." The pattern consists of a series of relationships, some of which are short "hookups," while others are longer and include cohabitation and children. Romance and marriage take a secondary role and occur later in life if at all. Breakups are common, and relationship revenge has become a popular theme, spawning the creation of "dump books," catty greeting cards, and stalker films. While she notes that this pattern is most common among the never-married, high school educated young and African Americans, couples of all ages are participating. This is generating a range of questions about the processes of parenting, as well as the importance of personal fulfillment versus the long-term value of commitment. "The new mating regime imposes myriad social costs," Whitehead writes. "Some fall upon a public system that increasingly must protect women from their violent partners and care for abused, neglected, and abandoned children. The social costs include an expanded family-court system, stepped-up child-support enforcement efforts, increased mediation and conflict-resolution services in the schools, and more. It's a sign of the times that in West Virginia, fourth-grade Girl Scouts can now earn a merit badge in domestic-violence prevention." Hedging Matrimonial Bets Politicians, counselors, educators, and clergy have all taken notice of these troubles and are proposing a variety of solutions. Maggie Gallagher, director of the Marriage Project at the Institute for American Values, wrote about a number of pro-marriage activists in last year's November 8 issue of the National Review: Mike McManus founded the national Marriage Savers organization, which aims to cut the divorce rate by training married couples to serve as mentors in churches; Diane Sollee directs the Coalition for Marriage, Family, and Couples Education, which provides practical courses on marriage skills; Katherine Spaht, a family lawyer in Louisiana, helped to draw up the nation's first covenant marriage--a stronger legal commitment than allowed by standard, no-fault divorce laws; Oklahoma governor Frank Keating has made reducing the divorce rate an explicit goal--he called for a summit of state leaders to draft a "Strategic Plan to Honor Marriage and Reduce Divorce." The federal government has also gotten in on the act; a law to reduce the "marriage penalty," which forces some spouses to pay more taxes than they might as singles, is making its way through Congress. Gallagher praises the involvement of state and local politicians in shoring up marriage."The increasing privatization of marriage is a key legal and cultural factor contributing to our current marriage crisis," she writes. "Marriage is a public, legal commitment, not merely a private, impassioned lover's vow. Marriage is an institution like private property--which is not created by government, but which, in order to thrive, must be recognized and protected by it." courtship vs dating 2 http://srd.yahoo.com/goo/dating+vs.+arrang...com/court2.html ... skip the first two paragraphs and read the rest?it describes history of LOVE MARRIAGE The relevant part starts off: There was a Harvard research paper on the subject of parents arranging the marriage of their children. It was discovered that making love and romance, the basis of marriage was a Roman contribution to Western civilization I discovered that for thousands of years, in all parts of the world that the principles of family ties, religion, station of birth, wealth and education were the founding factors in marriage, and not love and physical attraction. This researcher dug up the fact that 100 years ago in Japan marrying for love was a capital crime. The Japanese wisely reasoned that family, its name and inheritance, were far too important to be left to something as shaky as love and romance· Moreover, this researcher, much to her surprise, found that, ************************************************************************** in general, marriages arranged by the parents were just as happy and often more successful than marriages left to romance and falling in love. This is because the love that brings a couple together is not the love that keeps them together. **************************************************************************** There is no doubt that romantic songs, poems, plays, novels and movies have popularized the notion of romantic love being the basis for marriage. The plots of such plays as Romeo and Juliet have done as much as anything else to break down parental authority in marriage and idealize romantic love as the basis for marriage· Thus Shakespeare, and not the Bible, has become the accepted standard. The ideal of romantic love, the attitude that "I do not love him any more" is a real and legitimate excuse for divorce. Some have even gone so far as to change the marriage vows to "As long as we both shall love " instead of "As long as we both shall live. " Romantic love and physical attraction, while they are important, are not sound foundations to build a life and family upon. You might want to read this article as well : This article is written by a Reverened from a Christian persepective?.read the three areas where dating fails?. The views expressed are all in line with Sikh thought?How ironic?as we give up our traditions more and more individuals in the west adapt them?(((The same think is happening with cigarette smoking?.increasing in India?..decreasing in the West. ))) Dating vs Courtship - Laying a solid foundation for ... ... ... http://srd.yahoo.com/goo/arranged+marriage...s/datingbw.html Okay assume that you do find your soulmate via dating what do the statistics say after marriage? http://www.co.midland.mi.us/foc/stat.htm *50% of marriages end in divorce within 10 years. FACTS ABOUT MARITAL DISTRESS AND DIVORCE http://www.smartmarriages.com/7.html ARTICLE BELOW?. Facts About Marital Distress and Divorce Scott M. Stanley & Howard J. Markman University of Denver and PREP, Inc. Web: http://members.aol.com/prepinc (303) 759-9931 Younger people in the U.S. who are marrying for the first time face roughly a 40-50% chance of divorcing in their lifetime under current trends (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 1992, p. 5). Of first marriages that end in divorce, many end in the first 3 to 5 years. (As one example, for first marriages ending in divorce among women aged 25 to 29, the median length of marriage before divorce in 1990 was 3.4 years; U.S. Bureau of the Census, 1992, p. 4). Adults and children are at increased risk for mental and physical problems due to marital distress (e.g., Cherlin & Furstenberg, 1994; Coie et al. 1993; Coyne, Kahn, & Gotlib, 1987; Cowan & Cowan, 1992; Fincham, Grych, & Osborne, 1993). Mismanaged conflict and negative interaction in marriage predicts both marital distress and negative effects for children (e.g., Gottman, 1994; Markman & Hahlweg, 1993; Clements, Stanley, & Markman, 1997; Cowan & Cowan, 1992; and Grych & Fincham, 1990). Marital problems are associated with decreased work productivity, especially for men (e.g., Forthofer, Markman, Cox, Stanley, & Kessler, 1996). A variety of studies suggest that the seeds of marital distress and divorce are there for many couples when they say, "I Do." These studies show that premarital (or early marital) variables can predict which couples will do well and which will not with accuracies of 80% up to 94% (e.g., Clements, Stanley, & Markman, 1997; Fowers, Montel, & Olson, 1996; Gottman, 1994; Karney & Bradbury, 1995; Kelly & Conley, 1987; and Rogge & Bradbury, in press). Many more couples live together prior to marriage than in the past--recent estimates are in the range of 60+% (Stanley & Markman, 1997; Bumpass & Sweet, 1991). These couples are less likely to stay married, probably mostly due to the fact that they are less conservative about marriage and divorce in the first place. Money is the one thing that people say they argue about most in marriage, followed by children (Stanley & Markman, 1997). But, there is a lot of reason to believe that what couples argue about is not as important as how they argue (Markman, Stanley, & Blumberg, 1994). Married men and women in all age groups are less likely to be limited in activity (a general health indice) due to illness than single, separated, divorced, or widowed individuals (National Center for Health Statistics, 1997). Children living with a single parent or adult report a higher prevalence of activity limitation and higher rates of disability. They are also more likely to be in fair or poor health and more likely to have been hospitalized (National Center for Health Statistics, 1997). The "triple threat" of marital conflict, divorce, and out-of-wedlock births has led to a generation of U.S. children at great risk for poverty, health problems, alienation, and antisocial behavior. Students saying 'I do' to arranged marriage ... in most of the world, arranged marriages are the norm. "We're the oddballs," said Rebecca Manning, a professor of India studies and religion studies at Indiana ... http://www.ksc-equinox.com/52-23/lifestyle...%20marriage.htm One survey of urban professionals living in India suggests that many agree with that assessment. More than half of the survey's respondents said they wanted their families to choose their mates "because elders know best." Another 20 percent said because they were guaranteed someone of similar social standing, and about 10 percent said they liked knowing they could count on family support during times of trouble. But do arranged marriages work? The same survey of urban professionals suggests they do indeed. Of those surveyed, 81 percent had arranged marriages, and of that group, 94 percent rated their unions "very successful." source: http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....0A?OpenDocument

Brother, We need to develop time machine and go back and ask Guru ji about it and tht's how we can clear this otherwise seems like its so hard to decide. I don't blame Sikhs because its hard for them to follow one authority and most of them are related one or another orgs we have within sikhism. Now they preach Sikhism but still they have their own version of Sikhism added to it. God bless Sikhs because if after 50 years of discussion and announcement from Akal Thakhat still its not clear then I guess its not going to go from our minds. If you believe that Akal Thakhat is the supreme authority then believe in their Hukumnama otherwise follow the ones your org says and that's how you can solve this problem. Here is a debate of intelligent Sikhs for you to read. http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....7256B7B00659C84

http://www.sikhmediawatch.org/press/pressd....asp?pressid=40 SMART Responding to Bharati Mukherjee’s Comments about Sikhs, Terrorism 5/5/2003 Contact: Preetmohan Singh (202-393-2700 / info@sikhmediawatch.org) Sikhs Equated with Al Qaeda ‘Terrorist Cells’ in Recent Interview on PBS Washington, DC – In response to this weekend’s episode of a PBS program linking Sikhs to Al Qaeda terrorist cells, the Sikh Mediawatch and Resource Task Force (SMART) has begun addressing misrepresentations resulting from an interview with prominent Indian American novelist, Bharati Mukherjee. During this weekend’s broadcast of the program, “NOW with Bill Moyers,†Mukherjee stated that individuals responsible for the June, 1985 Air India bombing were “…people of Sikh religion, who used militant tactics, terrorist tactics, in order to establish in Punjab, the state of Punjab in India, religious theocratic state for the pure Sikhs, the re-baptized Sikhs.†Furthermore, she states, “Khalistanis…were able to, in temples, Gurdwaras, or later on with 9/11, I realized, in mosques, do fundraising at an enormous scale. Terrifying scale.†SMART has contacted the producers of “NOW with Bill Moyers†to address these and other potentially damaging statements in a comprehensive and visible manner. Therefore, at this time, we urge the community to follow this issue through our web site at www.sikhmmediawatch.org. If the program producers fail to meet our request, SMART will engage the community through an action alert in the near future. However, if you do write to the producers of NOW and/or Bharati Mukherjee, please send SMART a copy for our records. The transcript of Ms. Mukherjee's interview, is available at: http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_mukherjee.html To view a partial list of SMART’s previous Media Watch efforts, click here: http://www.sikhmediawatch.org/mediawatch/media.asp ### END ### About SMART: SMART, founded in 1996, is the oldest national Sikh American advocacy group. Its mission is to protect the rights of Sikh Americans through legislative advocacy, public education, legal assistance and ensuring accurate portrayal of the Sikh religion. Sikh Mediawatch and Resource Task Force (SMART) 1331 H Street, NW, 11th Floor Washington, DC 20005 Tel : 202-393-2700 / 877-91-SIKHS Fax : 202-318-4433 Email : info@sikhmediawatch.org Web : http://www.sikhmediawatch.org

"Abstracts Of Sikh Studies" Institute of Sikh Studies WOMEN'S LIBERATION MOVEMENT AND GURMAT Professor Prabhjot Kaur In this age of democracy, when equality has emerged as a keyword, women too have become conscious of their status and are demanding equality in every respect, and if refused, are prepared to fight for it tooth and nail. Women's Liberation Movement is the outcome of the prevailing mood. The Movement that was started by Elizabeth Cady Stanton in the year 1848 in Seneca Falls, a quiet village near New York, has not looked back since then. It has been going on, though the pace varied from time to time. Setting up of a UN Commission on the status of women gave a further boost to the movement, which was to spread very fast, taking the whole world in its fold. Indian woman too was not to remain untouched by this movement, and today she is asserting herself everywhere and has earned herself a rightful place in every field. She enjoys all constitutional rights and can seek legal redress in case she feels that she is being deprived of her rightful dues. Now the question arises where does the modern woman find herself today after she has achieved so much as a result of the Liberation Movement in her favour. Have all her problems been solved? Has the Movement helped in bringing down divorce rate? Are rape and dowry deaths anywhere near extinction? It is said that the status accorded to women is the touchstone of the civilization of society. Has successful launching of the Movement, which warrants equality and as a result better status for women, made today's society better and more civilized than it was before the Movement? The answer to all these questions is a definite no. If the Women's Liberation Movement is the answer to all the problems of women, how come that the divorce rate has increased manifold. Teenage-killers and teenage-abortions were problems unknown to previous generations. Broken families do not startle us anymore. Why did we need to observe the International Year of the Family (1994)? The institution of family is as old as the history of human civilization. Today, when man has made unprecedented progress in all spheres and is on the threshold of the 21st century, why should the institution of family feel so threatened as to make the UN devote one full year to impress upon man the importance of the family? Women have always been the pivot of the unit called family. Betterment of women should be synonymous with the betterment of society. Then why does the situation stand as it does today? Scholars in Sikh philosophy unequivocally emphasise that the solutions to all the present-day problems of man can be found in the Bani revealed by the Gurus and the bhagats in the Guru Granth Sahib. Is it not time we try to find the solution to this problem from the "Gurmat" point of view? Social, political and religious document, as Guru Granth Sahib is often made out to be, is basically designed to give spiritual nourishment to the starving soul of man. While talking of the matters spiritual, the imagery of family-life in general and that of husband and wife in particular has been used in the whole of Guru Granth Sahib. All mankind is the woman, the wife ("dhan suhagan") and Lord Almighty is the Lover, the Husband ("kanth"). All human beings (men and women) have been called "nar" (woman/wife) and thus have been considered not only equal, but the one and the same thing. All men of God are "sohagan" - a woman who is the beloved of the Lord - whether they have the body of a man or a woman. Obviously, for Guru Sahib, physical body does not matter. Human bodies are transitory. Hence, the difference between man and woman is only transitory - and as such superficial. It is the worth of the human being that really matters. Guru Sahib talks to everyone and anyone who aspires for a certain degree of quality in life (spiritual, moral, intellectual and emotional). So in Sikh theology, men and women (physical beings) enjoy equal status, nay, a woman has been bestowed with a special status when Guru Sahib equates all mankind to a woman. However, one fundamental difference between the present-day Women's Liberation Movement and the Gurmat philosophy needs to be understood. Today's liberated woman is demanding a status equal to that of a man, thinking (erroneously though) him to be superior to her in every respect, whereas as per the Gurmat philosophy, it is the woman and not the man who is 'the best of the best' ("sabh parvare mahi sreshth"). So it is the man who is expected to follow the footprints of the woman. Sikh philosophy calls upon all men to cultivate the superior qualities that come naturally to a woman. A man must be guided by a 'sohagan' in the ways spiritual. A man can attain the love of God, the same way as a woman attains the love of her husband. Just as the qualities like contentment, serenity, poise, amiability and sweetness of tongue are the qualities that earn love and respect for a woman, similarly, mankind too can earn an honourable place in the heart of the beloved Lord by following the same path. Spiritual philosophy of Guru Granth Sahib is equally relevant in social matters. Gurbani calls a woman "Batees Sulakhani" - a woman embellished with thirty two qualities. According to "Mahan Kosh", authored by Bhai Kahan Singh of Nabha, are attributed to a woman: Beauty, cleanliness, modesty, humility, concord, observance of religion, intelligence, knowledge, service, compassion, truth, dedicted love of spouse, purity of mind, patience, frugality, beneficence, sobriety, chivalry, active habits, house decoration, respect of elders, proficiency in music, poetry, painting, domestic science and embroidery, respectful attention to guests and upbringing of children." When a woman becomes batees-sulakhani while leading a socially useful life, not only for her immediate family but also for the society that she lives in, she aspires to turn these into a heavenly place. She bears an offspring that is an embodiment of Truth, which is an ideal for others in everyway. Being intelligent, well-educated and accomplished and having an intutive mind, she is even capable of guiding the other members of her family. She is a good wife and a good mother who can completely change the destiny of the family, the society and eventually the nation. One thing that deserves special mention here is that while feminine qualities like compassion, patience and contentment are recommended for a batees-sulakhani, the masculine qualities like chivalry and intelligence have not been overlooked. A woman is not expected to be a spineless creature without having an independent personality of her own. Boldness and chivalry are important attributes of a batees-sulakhani, because without these traits a situation that is absolutely undesireable with prevail. Guru Granth Sahib says: Women have become submissive, while the men have become tyrants. (p.1243) Weakness of a woman will tempt a man to exploit her. He will thus turn into a tyrant. Guru Sahib does not approve of such a situation: If one loses honour in life, impure is all that one eats. (p.142) The message contained in the said lines holds true for all human beings, ("jiv istrian") men and women. Being a good wife and a good mother does not mean that a woman should turn her back when the situation demands action on her part. Mata Bhago did the same when the call to act came. Mata Sundri not only took keen interest in Sikh polity, but also successfully guided the destiny of the Panth at a crucial juncture. It is a matter of piety that today the liberated woman, instead of cultivating the qualities of humility and chivalry in right proportion, has started considering humility a negative quality, and in her misdirected enthusiasm for equality, takes pride in being a rival to her husband instead of being his complement. As a result of this her responsibilities have increased manifold. Since few women can equal themselves to multiple challenges posed by the complex lifestyle, it has resulted in her leading a stressful life. The result - the unity of family is threatened. The young generation, deprived of a stable and emotionally secure life, feels frustated and is seeking refuge in drugs and other intoxicants. Crime among young adolescents has increased. Diseases like AIDS are tightening their grip. And they do not find any way out of this quagmire. Man today has started feeling an urgent need to bring about a healthy constructive change in today's lifestyle. Social scientists today have started realising that feminine qualities like patience, humility, love and self-sacrifice can pave way for a better social climate. Famous author Dr. H.B. Dinesh, M.D., a former Associate Professor of Psychology and Family Medicine, quotes in his book, 'Violence Free Society': "But the scales are already shifting - force is losing weight and mental alertness, intutive and spiritual qualities of love and service, in which a woman is strong, are gaining ascendency. Hence, the new age will be less masculine and more permeated with feminine ideals - or to speak more exactly, will be the age in which masculine and feminine elements of civilization will be more properly balanced." In the world today, there is an increasing realization and readiness to accept the Gurmat philosophy which glorifies feminine qualities and enjoins upon all humanity to cultivate these qualities, which according to Dr. Dinesh, will banish violence from the family, and eventually from the society. The secret of success in today's complex and problem-ridden life lies in the acceptance and practice of the kind of life advocated in Guru Granth Sahib. Herein only lies the solution to all the problems of the modern man. Check out more articles related to woman on following website. http://maple.lemoyne.edu/~arora/INDEX.HTML

Here are few links for you: Recite Gurbani in this Way... http://www.woden.com/~sukhdev/bani.htm My Son Does Not Listen To Me http://sikhism.com/teachingtheyouth/mysondoesnotlisten.htm Guru Granth Sahib http://www.sikhs.org/granth.htm Pargat Gura ki Deh! http://www.srigurugranthsahib.org/sggs/index.htm Note: Feel free to read it as per your convenience. Main priority should be learning and getting on right path.

it will go away from the Sikh Youth the ones are taking interest in Sikhism and following it properlu. Sikh Youth growing up under pro-caste environment won't let it go.

Fateh to all, I don't get one thing that why are we so confused? All sants followed Guru Granth sahib ji as their GURUS, if they didn't then they are fake if they were Sikh Sants. < Period> They were students of SGGS and Sikh Gurus and that's what they believe in for their whole life. Now, why are we so confused about it? We are taking inspiration from them and there is nothing wrong in it as they are "Sadh Sangat" but treating them as GURUS or saying that they are on the level of GURUs is the biggest disrespect we can give them in our human form. They were student of same GURU we have, and they are our seniors. Simple???? Simple rules are below: Worship the One Almighty God (AKAL) Believe in the Guru Granth Sahib as the Word of God Be in company of the Khalsa (Those who are God Intoxicated) What's so hard to understand in above three rules of Sikhism?

Radha-Soami Religion: Part 1 Background. http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....e0!OpenDocument Radha-Soami Religion : Part 2 - BASICS http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....2e!OpenDocument Radha-Soami Religion: Part 3 NAAM (Varnatmic Naam) http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....7b!OpenDocument Radha-Soami Religion: Part 4 FIVE NAAM DHUNES (Dhuniatmic) AND Positions http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....05!OpenDocument Radha-Soami Religion: Part 5 ALTI PALTI ASSEN (Roohani Safar) http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....60!OpenDocument Radha-Soami Religion: Part 6 Parsadi / Guru / Dera Beas http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....2d!OpenDocument

Other sources of authority The Sant syndrome The role of Sants (holymen) in the development of the Sikh tradition in the post-Guru period has been remarkably significant. The status of a 'Sant' was highly praised by the fifth Guru, Arjun Dev, in his celebrated hymn 'Sukhmani Sahib'. A Sant is an individual (almost always a male) who develops a reputation for piety or pedagogical skill and thereby attracts an informal following of disciples (McLeod, 1992:102). A Sant is regarded as a holy person by the Sikhs and is believed to have been endowed with divine power by God. Most Sants claim to have been commissioned by Guru Nanak to preach his mission. Some of them have established deras (religious headquarters) which are regularly visited by the disciples for their darshan (glimpse). The Sant-oriented gurdwaras are another source of authority; the words of a Sant are perceived as sacred utterance by his disciples. Within the Sikh community in the twentieth century a number of Sants emerged who became deeply involved in Sikh political affairs. Some of them held high office in the Akali Dal (political party of the Sikhs). For example, in the 1960's Sant Fateh Singh took over the leadership of the Akali Dal from the veteran Sikh leader Master Tara Singh and went on a hunger strike for the attainment of Punjabi Suba (Punjabi speaking state). He introduced the ritual of self-immolation in the Sikh tradition and got constructed an agan-kund (brick structure for burning alive) in the vicinity of the Golden Temple complex. The concept of suicide was alien to the teachings of the Gurus, who regarded human life as the gift of God and condemned killing. Sant Fateh Singh was advocating suicide to achieve political objectives by exercising his authority as the supreme leader of the Sikhs. The government of India saved the situation by accepting some demands of the Sikhs. Ironically, Sant Harchand Singh Longowal who in 1980 became l eader of the Akali Dal was assassinated by Sikh militants for entering into negotiations with the central government after the military action on the Golden Temple complex by the Indian army in 1984. Another charismatic Sant, Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwaley, emerged in the 1980s as a powerful religious/political leader within the Sikh community. He took over control of the Golden Temple complex by force and fought a pitched battle with the Indian army in 1984. He attracted a large number of young Sikhs who volunteered to sacrifice their lives for the mission of Sant Jarnail Singh, and was the leader of the Khalistan movement in the Punjab. Although Sant Jarnail Singh was killed during the army action, his followers believe that the Sant is alive and well and that he will appear in public one day. He is revered as a martyr, and photographs showing him battling with the Indian army are hung in many gurdwaras in the U.K. Another important source of authority is the Jathedar (head) <2> of the Akal Takhat. He is perceived to have inherited his authority from the historical figure of Bhai Mani Singh (1644-1734). According to Sikh tradition, Bhai Mani Singh was appointed as Jathedar of the Akal Takhat by Guru Gobind Singh in 1699 (Madanjit Kaur, 1983:197). Theoretically, the Jathedar of the Akal Takhat is regarded as an independent person who is responsible for the exposition of religious matters. Ironically, he is appointed by the SGPC like all other Jathedars of four Takhats and in practice he is controlled by the ruling faction of the SGPC. At present there are three main contenders for this office. After the army action on the Golden Temple complex in 1984, a section of the militant Sikhs called a meeting of the so-called Sarbat Khalsa and appointed Jasbir Singh Rodey as Jathedar of the Akal Takhat, rejecting the claim of the official Jathedar who had been appointed by the SGPC. In 1982 a Sikh militant named Ranjit Singh, who is serving life imprisonment for killing the Nirankari leader Baba Gurbachan Singh, was appointed Jathedar of the Akal Takhat by the SGPC while in prison. The present Jathedar is called Acting Jathedar by the SGPC; he is the nominee of the SGPC. There has been a lot of factionalism within the Akali leadership in the past ten years. The Akali Dal split into many factions, each accusing others of being agents of the central government. Eventually, the president of the SGPC entrusted the current Acting Jathedar of the Akal Takhat with the task of uniting all Akali factions in order to form a united Akali Dal. He gladly agreed to the suggestion, and using his authority summoned leaders of all factions to appear before him at the Akal Takhat. Many prominent Sikh leaders challenged the authority of the Jathedar to undertake this mission. They argued that the Jathedar of the Akali Dal is the spiritual leader of all Sikhs, therefore he should not involve himself with the party politics of various factions of the Akali party. He was accused of being a puppet of the President of the SGPC who has a reputation of supporting some groups within the Akali Party. This episode demonstrates the problem of identifying the central authority in Sikhism. Authority in the Sikh diaspora Sikhs began to emigrate overseas in the late 19th century and early 20th century. Wherever they went they established their gurdwaras for religious and social purposes. Mainly they migrated to countries within the British empire, i.e. Canada, Australia, East Africa and the U.K. An overwhelming majority of the pioneer Sikh migrants belonged to the Jat Sikh caste group (agriculturists). The dominant group of Sikh migrants to East Africa however were skilled craftsmen popularly known as Ramgarhias (carpenters, blacksmiths and bricklayers). The organisational structure of their gurdwaras is based on the British model of organising social and welfare associations. All gurdwaras have duly approved constitutions for electing the management committee. These gurdwaras are totally independent from outside interference; they are controlled by the local sangats (congregations) through their elected representatives. Although most pioneer Sikh migrants removed their outward symbols in order to gain employment and avoid racial discrimination, their commitment to the Sikh tradition was undiminished. This is evident from their dedication in establishing gurdwaras. In Canada, many Sikh migrants used to go to the gurdwaras without covering their heads, as in the churches (Bains and Johnston, 1995). In the 1950's and 60's a large number of Sikhs from the Punjab migrated to Canada. They were mainly kesdhari (with outward symbols) Sikhs, who strongly questioned the behaviour of pioneer Sikh migrants. There has been a number of serious disputes between the mona (clean-shaven) and kesdhari Sikhs concerning the control of earlier gurdwaras, in most cases both parties going to the courts for adjudication. Although the institution of sangat is highly respected in Sikhism, in practice it has no real authority. Moreover, it is a very vague structural entity. Who constitutes the sangat is most problematic to define. During the normal congregation, everyone present is supposed to be part and parcel of the sangat and theoretically empowered to take any decisions. In practice, they do not have any such authority. All gurdwaras in the UK and Canada, like other community-based gurdwaras, are managed by committees which are elected annually by the approved membership according to the constitution. Different factions of Sikhs make every effort to control the gurdwaras through these annual elections. In the case of disagreement, use of physical force is frequently employed; the local police are invited to intervene in the fights and disputes are taken to the courts. Usually, such disputes and fights take place in the main congregation hall where the Guru Granth Sahib is installed. It may be argued that the real authority lies in the capacity of a faction to muster large number of voters at the annual elections and the backing of a hard core of supporters. In the 1970s a new strategy was evolved by the kesdhari Sikhs to gain control of the gurdwaras. For example, the original constitutions did not make any distinction between amritdhari (ritually initiated), kesdhari and mona Sikhs; all were eligible to become members of the management committee. Firstly, the constitutions were amended to exclude mona Sikhs from holding important positions on the management committee. At present, most constitutions in UK explicitly state that only amritdhari Sikhs are eligible for membership of the management committee. Ironically, mona (clean-shaven) Sikhs are eligible to become members and exercise their right of vote for amritdhari and kesdhari candidates. In certain cases, when it became difficult to hold annual elections due to the danger of physical violence amongst various factions, the board of trustees adopted another novel method, called parchian paa lao (election by picking slips, like a raffle). Interested candidates were asked for nominations; a parchi (slip) was prepared with the candidate's name and put in a box which was placed in front of the Guru Granth Sahib. A child was invited to draw slips corresponding to the number of candidates eligible for the management committee. In this case, it is rather problematic to identify the source of authority. No wonder a losing faction would challenge the election and the situation remain confused and unresolved. At present a number of Sant-orientated gurdwaras have emerged in Britain; they are managed by the trusted followers of the Sants who are the de facto heads of these institutions. For example, Sant Puran Singh Karichowaley came from East Africa and established a number of gurdwaras popularly known as Guru Nanak Nishkam Sewak Jatha Gurdwaras. These gurdwaras are managed by the appointees of the Sant. Before his death in June 1993, Sant Puran Singh nominated his successor. His funeral was attended by more than ten thousand people who walked behind his body which was carried in an open carriage. The funeral procession was led by panj-pyarey in their traditional dress; they carried nishan sahib (Sikh flags) in their hands. The ritual of carrying nishan sahib is particularly observed when the Guru Granth Sahib is taken out in a procession at the time of gurpurbs (anniversaries of Sikh Gurus). The sociological significance of the role of panj-pyarey in the funeral procession of Sant Puran Singh highlights the signif icance of the status of Sants in Sikhism. Caste and authority in Sikhism The presence and practice of caste among the Sikhs raises another problem in ascertaining the source of authority in Sikhism. Although the Sikh Gurus rejected the doctrine of varnashramadharma, the Sikhs continued practising the caste system. It is clearly manifested in the system of arranged marriages based upon the rules of caste endogamy, Jat Sikhs marrying Jat Sikhs and Ramgarhia Sikhs marrying Ramgarhia Sikhs. In Britain, a number of disputes in the gurdwaras originated between various caste groups striving for control of the management committee. Consequently some caste groups, depending upon their numerical and financial power, opted for establishing their own caste gurdwaras, i.e. Ramgarhia Sikh Gurdwara, Bhatra Sikh Sangat Gurdwara and Ravidas Bhawan/Gurdwara. The nature of worship at the caste-based gurdwaras is a photocopy of other gurdwaras. For example, they celebrate the main Sikh festivals and strictly observe the rituals of akhand-path and sahej-path. Ironically, they also celebrate the festival of Baisakhi, which is associated with the founding of the Khalsa, as enthusiastically as other gurdwaras. It is important to note that the tradition of the founding of the Khalsa rejects the notion of caste while promoting the concept of a casteless Sikh brotherhood. An outside observer is easily misled and confused by the religious services held at the caste-based gurdwaras. In fact, the fundamental difference lies in the constitution of caste-based gurdwaras, e.g. only Ramgarhia Sikhs are eligible to become members of Ramgarhia gurdwaras, though other Sikhs are not debarred from attending the service. This shows that the decision-making mechanism of caste-based gurdwaras is totally under the control of respective caste groups and participation in the caste-based gu rdwaras naturally promotes caste loyalty and the caste consciousness which apparently contradicts the teachings of the Gurus. The panj-pyarey Another source of authority in Sikhism is the institution of panj-pyarey (first five initiated Sikhs). This has its origin in the tradition of the founding of the Khalsa by the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, in 1699. The institution of panj-pyarey holds a unique status within the Sikh Panth. The panj-pyarey were the first amritdhari Sikhs, who are believed to have received Guru's authority by virtue of the act of offering their lives to the tenth Guru to create the Khalsa brotherhood. The significance of the institution of panj-pyarey is evident from the way it is respected within the Sikh tradition. For example, after the culmination of the service, karah-parshad (blessed food) is first served to five amritdhari Sikhs ritually representing the panj-pyarey. Occasionally, the panj-pyarey are asked to resolve disputes among members of the management committee. As there is no prescribed method of selection of the panj-pyarey, sometimes their verdict is not accepted by everyone and the process of resolving differences through the intervention of panj-pyarey is frustrated. Recently, at the opening ceremony of a purpose-built Gurdwara in London, the officials of the Gurdwara appointed five male panj-pyarey and five female panj-pyarey to perform the opening ceremony and lead the sangat to the main congregation hall. A serious controversy developed over the appointment of female panj-pyarey. Many orthodox Sikhs questioned the appointment of female panj-pyarey and their eligibility to perform the conventional role of panj-pyarey. In the absence of a universally accepted central authority in Sikhism the issue remained unresolved, thus creating more confusion. Conclusion I have shown that the Sikh tradition is basically guru-sikh oriented, in which the ten human gurus had a unique role and status. All fundamental institutions of the Sikhs were created by human gurus, e.g. gur-gaddi (guruship), Adi Granth, Harmandir Sahib, Akal Takhat, the Khalsa, amrit, sangat and the panj-pyarey. Moreover, the act of terminating the line of human gurus is also attributed to one of the ten human Gurus, Gobind Singh. In the absence of the authority of the human Gurus, the Sikh Panth developed innovative institutions for resolving religious and intra-community disputes, namely the Sarbat Khalsa and gurmata. Ironically, it was the Sikh ruler of Punjab, Maharaja Ranjit Singh, who disbanded the institution of Sarbat Khalsa and usurped the control of the Harmandir Sahib. Similarly, the British administrators took over the control of the Harmandir Sahib after the annexation of Punjab in 1849 and they exercised virtually complete authority in Sikh affairs. The role of the British Government in preser ving and promoting the distinctive Khalsa identity during the post-guru period is exceptional. For example, the British army approved the following regulation concerning the sanctity of the outward symbols of Sikh soldiers. The regulation states: "The paol, or religious pledges of Sikh fraternity, should on no account be interfered with. The Sikh should be permitted to wear his beard, and the hair of his head gathered up, as enjoined by his religion. Any invasion, however slight, of these obligations would be construed into a desire to subvert his faith, lead to evil consequences, and naturally inspire general distrust and alarm. Even those, who have assumed the outward conventional characteristics of Sikhs should not be permitted after entering the British army, to drop them." (Khushwant Singh, 1966:112-13) I have demonstrated that the British government played a key role in creating the institution of SGPC (supreme body of the Sikhs) and was instrumental in enfranchising the Sikh community by enacting the Punjab Sikh Gurdwara Act, 1925. Moreover, the institution of sangat began to observe the principle of universal suffrage for electing the management committees of the gurdwaras. I have further argued that the Sikh Sants are filling the void created by the absence of human gurus. Jogi Harbhajan Singh, founder of the 3HO (Happy, Holy and Healthy) Movement in the USA. and Canada provides a unique example of the role of Sants in Sikhism. He is the only Sikh religious leader who has attracted a large number of non-Punjabi American whites to the Sikh fold. He describes himself as "Chief Religious and Administrative Authority for the Sikh Dharma in Western Hemisphere and the spiritual guide to some three thousand young American and Canadian Sikh converts belonging to the Healthy, Happy and Holy Organisation (3HO)" (D usenbery, 1989:90-91). The presence and practice of caste is clearly evident from the establishment of caste-based gurdwaras in the Sikh diaspora. It has been discussed in order to highlight the continuing problematic nature of the notion of authority in Sikhism. -------------------------------------------- NOTES: 1. Miri-piri: Doctrine of temporal and spiritual authority introduced by the 6th Guru, Hargobind. He built the Akal Takhat for discussing social and political affairs of the Sikhs and trained his followers in military skills to defend the Sikh community. 2. Jathedar: Literally, leader of a group or military detachment. Jathedar is the title given to the appointed head of one of the takhats (thrones) such as the Akal Takhat. He is a paid official appointed by the SGPC. BIBLIOGRAPHY: Bains, T.S. and Johnston, H. (1995) The Four Quarters of the Night: The Life-Journey of an Emigrant Sikh. Montreal and Kingston: McGill-Queen's University Press. Cole, W.O. (1982) The Guru in Sikhism. London: Darton, Longman and Todd. Dusenbery, V.A. (1989) 'Of Singh Sabhas, Siri Singh Sahibs and Sikh Scholars: Sikh Discourse from North America in the 1970s' in N.G. Barrier and V.A. Dusenbery (eds.) The Sikh Diaspora: Migration and the Experience Beyond Punjab. Delhi: Chanakya Publications. Kohli, S.S. (1990) Sikhism and Guru Granth Sahib. New Delhi: National Bookshop. Klostermaier, K.K. (1989) A Survey of Hinduism. Albany: State University of New York. Kalsi, S.S. (1992) The Evolution of a Sikh Community in Britain. Department of Theology and Religious Studies, University of Leeds. Kalsi, S.S. (1993) 'Sacred Symbols in British Sikhism' DISKUS Vol.2, No.2 (1994) Kaur, M. (1983) The Golden Temple: Past and Present. Amritsar: Guru Nanak Dev University. McLeod, W.H. (1989) Who is a Sikh? The Problem of Sikh Identity. Oxford: Clarendon Press. Singh, Harbans. (1973) 'Origins of the Singh Sabha', in Ganda Singh (ed.) The Singh Sabha and other Socio-Religious Movements in the Punjab: 1850-1925. Patiala: Publication Bureau Punjabi University. Singh, Kashmir. (1989) Law of Religious Institutions - Sikh Gurdwaras. Amritsar: Guru Nanak Dev University. Singh, Khushwant. (1966) A History of the Sikhs. Vol.2, 1839-1964. London: Oxford University Press.

continued from PART 1 Authority in the post-Khalsa period. According to the Sikh tradition, Guru Gobind Singh died at Nander in 1708. Before his death he is believed to have transferred his authority to the Adi Granth and the Khalsa brotherhood. Shortly before his death he also nominated Banda Singh Bahadur to lead the Sikhs in the Punjab against the Moghal rulers. Banda Singh Bahadur was a great military genius; within two years with the support and loyalty of the Punjabi Sikh peasantry he established Sikh rule in the Punjab. Some Sikh scholars claim that he was revered by his followers like a guru and this created disunity and confusion among the Sikhs, which resulted in the emergence of two factions within the ranks of Banda's followers; Tat Khalsa and Bandai Khalsa. Bandais were those Sikhs who refused to accept the authority of the Guru Granth Sahib as the Guru of the Sikhs and revered Banda Singh Bahadur as their eleventh Guru (Madanjit Kaur, 1983:33). Commenting on the rivalry between the Tat Khalsa and the Bandai Khalsa, Madanjit Kaur writes: "The atmosphere was highly charged and both the rival groups seemed ready to come to blows. But the situation was saved and a settlement was reached through the intervention of Bhai Mani Singh. The dispute was settled by casting lots. Two pieces of paper with the slogans of the factions inscribed thereon, were floated in the Holy Tank at a place known as Har Ki Pauri. The slip containing the slogan of Tat Khalsa (Fateh Wahguru ji ki) kept floating while the other sank down. So, the decision was given in favour of the Tat Khalsa." (1983:36-37) Analysis of the manner of settling the dispute between two contending factions, only a few years after the death of the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, clearly demonstrates that the doctrine of the Guru Granth as a living Guru had not emerged as the final source of authority within the Panth. In fact, the dispute was settled by casting lots through the intervention of Bhai Mani Singh, the nominee of Guru Gobind Singh. After the death of Banda Bahadur twelve misls (armed bands) of Sikhs emerged in the Punjab. The leaders of these misls evolved a new institution called the Sarbat Khalsa (literally, the whole Khalsa Panth) to resolve their differences. In practice it was composed of the leaders of all the misls gathered at the Akal Takhat, who would approve resolutions called gurmata (guru's intention) in the presence of the Guru Granth Sahib. It seems to be the first indication of the beginning of the doctrine of Guru Panth in Sikhism. In 1799, after Maharaja Ranjit Singh captured Lahore and laid down the foundation of the Sikh rule in the Punjab he liquidated all the Sikh misls and brought them under his control, disbanding the institution of the Sarbat Khalsa and taking all decisions personally. In 1805 he captured the city of Amritsar, took over the control of the Harmandir Sahib and appointed his own administrators to manage the Temple affairs. As Sikh ruler of Punjab, Ranjit Singh exercised both political and religious authority. This implies that the institution of the Sarbat Khalsa did not last long and was killed in the embryo by Maharaja Ranjit Singh, who exercised de facto authority over Sikh affairs. Authority in Sikhism under British rule. In the 1850's, two important sects emerged within the Sikh movement; the Nirankaris and the Namdharis. Despite other differences they strongly believed in the authority of the living guru. Most importantly, the Namdhari Sikhs dispute the incidence of the death of the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, at Nander. They claim that he survived to live one hundred and forty-eight years, operating under the name of Ajapal Singh. According to Namdhari tradition, Guru Gobind Singh transferred guruship to Baba Balak Singh of Huzro who appointed Guru Ram Singh as his successor. Ganda Singh says that: "Ram Singh preached the faith of Gurus Nanak - Gobind Singh and brought back large number of lukewarm people to the Sikh faith with rejuvenated enthusiasm. With the zeal of new converts, thousands of people gathered around him and attended his congregations both at his village and at the fairs and religious centres visited by him." (1984: xi). For our discussion the emergence of the Namdhari and Nirankari movements raises another issue of authority in Sikhism; it suggests that the status of the human Guru remained predominant within the Sikh tradition. The leaders of these two movements did not interfere with the control of the Harmandir Sahib; they established their headquarters at their own villages. Their decision can be compared with the actions of the ninth and tenth Gurus who also established their headquarters away from Amritsar. It suggests that the human gurus had the ultimate authority in Sikhism; they could establish their headquarters wherever they wished. Moreover, the control of the Golden Temple was not regarded by them as a necessary pre-requisite for legitimising their authority. After the annexation of the Punjab in 1849, the Harmandir Sahib came under the control of the British authorities. The Deputy Commissioner of Amritsar had complete authority over the management of the Golden Temple; he formulated the rules and regulations and appointed a committee of loyal Sikh Sardars (chiefs) to carry on the day-to-day management of the Temple. As a matter of fact authority over all Sikh affairs passed into the hands of the British administrators who controlled the Sikh community with the support of Sikh collaborators. In the absence of the human Guru, there was virtually no central authority in Sikhism apart from the British Government. The Role of the Singh Sabha Movement In 1872, the Namdhari leader Guru Ram Singh was exiled to Burma by the British government. The Namdhari movement was brutally suppressed by the British; sixty-eight Namdhari Sikh activists were blown by the guns without any trial. In this climate a new organisation called Singh Sabha was formed by loyal Sikhs in 1873 to propagate the teachings of the Sikh Gurus amongst the people of the Punjab, particularly emphasising the significance of the Khalsa Brotherhood. The Singh Sabha leadership vehemently rejected the notion of the continuity of the line of human Gurus after the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh. They made an exceptional contribution towards promoting the doctrine of the Panth Khalsa and the Guru Granth Sahib and also challenged the traditional leadership of the two main Sikh gurdwaras, the Harmandir Sahib and Nankana Sahib Gurdwara. They began to re-define Sikh rites of passage, promoting a distinct Sikh identity by distancing themselves from the traditional Sikh universe. One of the unique features of the organisational structure of the Singh Sabha was the British model of organising social and welfare associations. The Singh Sabha had a constitution based on democratic principles, i.e. it provided a proper membership criterion, a membership fee and the election of office bearers. One could argue that the democratic structure of the Singh Sabha went a long way towards acknowledging, at least in theory, the authority of the sangat (Sikh congregation) in Sikhism. In the 1920s, the Sikhs under the leadership of the Akali Dal (political party of the Sikhs) launched a mass movement for the control of major historical gurdwaras then under the control of hereditary Mahants (custodians) who traced their ancestry to the Sikh Gurus. Attached to these gurdwaras was a lot of land which had been donated by Sikh royalty and others. Moreover, these shrines were a major recipient of income donated by Sikh pilgrims. The Sikh leaders argued that the gurdwaras and their income belonged to the Sikh community and therefore should be controlled and managed by the Sikh community as such. Initially, the British Government supported the claim of the hereditary Mahants who were political allies of the British, but as a result of prolonged agitation the government agreed to the demands of the agitators and passed a piece of legislation called the Punjab Sikh Gurdwara Act, in 1925. The significance of the control of historical gurdwaras for the British administration is evident from the following report sent by the Lt. Governor of Punjab to the Viceroy of India on August 8, 1881. He wrote: "I think it would be politically dangerous to allow the arrangement of Sikh temples fall into the hands of a committee emancipated from government control, and I trust your Excellency will assist to pass such orders in the case as will enable to continue the system which has worked out successfully for more than thirty years. (Quoted in Law of Religious Institutions: Sikh Gurdwaras. Kashmir Singh, 1989:60) Commenting on the above-mentioned report, Kashmir Singh writes that "The British Government regarded and used the Sikh shrines as a powerful channel for an indirect control of the Sikhs" (1989:60). It is evident that the real authority in Sikh affairs was exercised by the British Government through the Mahants. The Punjab Sikh Gurdwara Act, 1925 The Punjab Sikh Gurdwara Act, 1925 (PSG) brought a new dimension to the issue of authority in Sikhism. In the absence of the human Guru, the Sikhs had been struggling to agree on an appropriate authority. Although, at least in theory, the doctrine of the Adi Granth as the Guru had been in vogue since the death of the tenth Guru Gobind Singh, it did not resolve the fundamental question of central authority in Sikhism which had once been exercised by the ten human Gurus. Let us examine some of the salient features of the PSG Act in order to understand the nature of authority in Sikhism in the twentieth century. Apart from its impact on Sikh affairs, the Act made an extraordinary contribution to the introduction of the principle of universal suffrage in India. It enfranchised all adult Sikhs for the purpose of electing their 'Religious Parliament' called the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC; Supreme Management Committee of the Gurdwaras). According to the PSG Act, the SGPC is composed of 160 members, of whom 140 members are elected by Sikh voters while 20 are co-opted by the elected and ex-officio members. Another interesting feature of the structure of the SGPC is that out of 140 seats, twenty are reserved for scheduled caste (low caste) Sikhs. It implies that the presence and practice of caste was legally authorised and accepted by the Sikh community. The most significant aspect of the Act was its definition of a Sikh person for preparing voting lists. It says a person shall be deemed a Sikh for registration as a voter if he makes the following declaration in a Government prescribed proforma: "I solemnly affirm that I am a Sikh, that I believe in the Guru Granth Sahib, that I believe in the Ten Gurus and that I have no other religion." (Section 2 [9]) The definition of a Sikh as provided in the Act raises some fundamental questions concerning the identity of a Sikh person. Firstly, it does not exclude Sahejdhari (those who do not wear outward symbols) Sikhs from participating in the election of the SGPC. It suggests that the Sikh leadership in the 1920s was more liberal than now and that they accepted the definition provided in the Adi Granth: 'He who calls himself a Sikh of the True Guru should get up in the early hours of the morning and remember the Name of the Lord ... Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that Gursikh who not only contemplates himself but also makes others contemplate the name of the Lord'. (Adi Granth, 305-6). Secondly, it does exclude those Sikhs who believe in the living Guru, i.e. the Namdhari Sikhs, Nirankari Sikhs and Radhasoami Sikhs. As a matter of fact, the Act reflects the political and religious ideology of the Singh Sabha Movement, which had endeavoured to reform and re-define Sikh tradition since its inception in 1873. Another interesting feature of the definition of a Sikh in this Act is the inclusion of the declaration that 'I have no other religion'. This definition, which still applies today, implicitly rejects the teachings of Sikh Gurus. For example Mardana, the lifelong companion and first Sikh of Guru Nanak was a Muslim minstrel. This part of the definition clearly indicates the impact of Western and Judeo-Christian tradition as opposed to the traditional Indic culture which is based on the principle of inclusivity rather than exclusivity. It is interesting to note that the PSG Act was passed by the Punjab Legislative Assembly which was composed of Sikh, Hindu and Muslim legislators including members nominated by the British Government. The Bill became an Act on 29th July 1925, when it obtained the formal assent of the Governor General of India. It may be argued that the central body of the Sikhs, the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) constituted under the PSG Act, 1925 was originally created by non-Sik hs (Muslims, Hindus and Christian administrators). The PSG Act exposed another dilemma faced by the Sikh community in the 1920s. The Act was applicable only within the British empire; Sikhs living in the Sikh Princely States were excluded from taking part in the election of their central body, the SGPC. On the other hand Sikh rulers were empowered to nominate their representatives for the SGPC. It shows that authority concerning Sikh affairs in the Sikh States was still exercised by the Sikh rulers. Moreover, the jurisdiction of the SGPC was not universal; it was restricted to the historical Gurdwaras located in the British Punjab only. Some interesting remarks on the PSG Act In the final stages of the agitation for the control of gurdwaras both parties made some remarks which proved to be of historic significance. For example Malcolm Hailey, then Lt. Governor of Punjab, made the following remarks: "Why delay the bill and let the Government get the blame. Give it to them, and also their Gurdwaras. They will then quarrel among themselves" (Kashmir Singh, 1989:148). Reflecting on the remarks of Mr. Hailey, Kashmir Singh wrote in 1989 that "The remarks of Hailey proved to be prophetic and the Akalis [sikh leaders] behaved exactly in the manner anticipated by him after the passing of the Act" (1989:148-149).

DISKUS Vol.3 No.2 (1995) pp.43-58 Problems of Defining Authority in Sikhism Dr. Sewa Singh Kalsi Dept. of Theology and Religious Studies University of Leeds Leeds LS2 9JT UK -------------------------------------------------------------- ABSTRACT The paper explores the locus of authority in Sikhism. Areas covered include the authority of the human gurus, the transfer of guruship and the position of Harmandir Sahib (Golden Temple), disputes over authority in the post-Khalsa period and the Sarbat Khalsa, Sikh authority under British rule, the Singh Sabha movement, the Punjabi Sikh Gurdwara Act of 1925 and the formation of the SGPC, the Sants, and especially among diaspora Sikhs the roles of sangat, caste, panj-pyarey. -------------------------------------------------------------- According to the normative view, Sikhism may be described as a guru-shishya (teacher-pupil) oriented tradition which was evolved and developed by ten human Gurus over a period of two hundred and thirty-nine years. At his death in 1708, the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, is believed to have transferred his personal authority to the Adi Granth (Sikh scripture) and the Khalsa Panth. This paper aims to examine the development of authority in Sikhism with a view to understanding the process of change from the role and status of the human Gurus to that of the doctrine of the Guru Granth Sahib and Guru Panth as a living Guru. It intends also to locate answers to these issues by examining various sources of authority which emerged within the Sikh tradition over a period of five hundred years, i.e. human Gurus, the Guru Granth Sahib, the sangat, the Khalsa Panth, panj-pyarey (five initiated Sikhs) and the British Raj. The paper further endeavours to analyse the complexity of the nature of authority as perceived and experie nced by the Sikh generation born and brought up in diaspora. Sikhism is an integral part of the Indic cultural tradition, originating in the Punjab in the 15th century. Its founder, Nanak Dev, was born in 1469 in the village named Talwandi near Lahore. He was popularly known as Guru Nanak. At the outset it is vital to look at the etymology of the term 'Sikhism' for understanding the origin of authority in the Sikh tradition. The term 'Sikhism' has been applied to the Sikh tradition by British administrators and Western scholars whereas the people of Punjab use the terms 'Sikhi', 'Sikh dharm' or 'guru-mat'. Sikhi means the Sikh way of life, comprising both belief and practice. 'Sikh dharm' denotes the religious, social and moral code of discipline of the Sikhs, and 'Guru-mat' literally the mind or the intention of the Guru or the teachings of the Guru. Now we are confronted with two most significant terms at the heart of Sikhism, i.e. Guru and Sikh. Reflection on the origin of these terms is essential for understanding the historical link of the Sikh tradition with the centuries-old Indian institution of guru-shishya. The terms 'guru' and 'shishya' originated in Sanskrit: 'gu' means darkness and 'ru' means light; a guru is one who dispels darkness and enlightens his/her pupils. Likewise, the word Sikh has its origin in the Sanskrit term 'shishya' meaning a disciple, a learner or a student. According to S.S. Kohli, the guru-shishya tradition is very old in India and goes back to the Upanishadic period (Kohli, 1990). The institution of guruship is fundamental for understanding the Indic religious and cultural tradition. In traditional India, the guru performed various functions connected with rites of passage. He was a vidya guru (one who imparted secular and religious knowledge); craft guru, who was responsible for teaching technical skills; kul guru (family guru, called prohit) who officiated in various rites of passage in the family; and raj guru (royal teacher) who was entrusted to advise the king and officiated in the crowning ceremony called tilak. According to The Method of Enlightening the Disciple: "The guru is one who is endowed with the power of furnishing arguments pro and con, of understanding questions and remembering them, one who possesses tranquillity, self-control, compassion and a desire to help others, who is versed in the scriptures and unattached to enjoyments both seen and unseen, who has renounced the means to all kind of actions, is a knower of Brahman and established in it and who is devoid of shortcomings such as ostentation, pride, deceit, cunning, jugglery, falsehood, egotism and attachment." (Quoted in Survey of Hinduism by K.L. Klostermaier, 1989:193) The role and the status of a guru is intimately linked with the doctrine of varnashramadharma which is fundamental for understanding Hinduism. The ashramas (four stages of human life) begin with brahmchariya ashrama (studentship) when a Hindu boy is entrusted to his guru for studies before he embarks on the second ashrama, that is the householder. It can be argued that at the heart of the Indic tradition lies the institution of the guru who is revered as a deity by his disciples. Lord Buddha, Mahavira, and Shankara for example were great gurus of their disciples and traditions. Likewise, the Indian craftsmen worship Lord Vishvakarma who is regarded as their craft deity. The notion of be-gura (without a guru) highlights the importance of the institution of guruship in Indic culture. The Punjabi term 'be-gura' is regarded as most abusive. It is applied to someone who has no moral principles and lacks the guidance of a guru; it is also used for those craftsmen who perform shoddy workmanship. It also implies the state of awagaun (cycle of life and death) for the be-gura, as mukti or moksha (liberation from the cycle of life and death) can only be achieved by the grace of guru. Authority under the Sikh Gurus The fundamental institutions of the Sikh tradition bear the seal of human Gurus who displayed extraordinary creative power and self-sacrifice for the development of Sikhism in India. For example, Guru Nanak established the institution of guruship by appointing one of his disciples as his successor at a ceremony which followed the traditional Indian model. Guru Nanak placed five coins before Lehna and touched his feet; this was symbolic of the transfer of his personal authority to his disciple who was declared by him as Guru Angad (His own limb). This tradition was followed by virtually all Gurus except Guru Hargobind, Guru Teg Bahadur and Guru Gobind Singh. It was the fifth Guru, Arjun Dev who compiled the Sikh scripture (Adi Granth) and built the Harmandir Sahib (central place of worship of the Sikhs) in 1603/4. It was he who installed the Adi Granth in the Harmandir Sahib. Guru Arjan Dev was accused by the Moghal emperor Jehangir of using derogatory language against Islam and was tortured to death. As a matter of fact, the Adi Granth contains the compositions of Muslim and Hindu saints alongside the writings of the Sikh Gurus. According to Sikh tradition, one of the important factors in the introduction of the concept of miri-piri (temporal and spiritual authority) <1> in Sikhism by the sixth Guru, Hargobind, was the martyrdom of his father, Guru Arjun Dev. It is important to examine the difficulties and confusion which emerged concerning the transfer of guruship after the death of the eighth Guru, Hari Krishen. He became Guru at the age of five. The Moghal emperor Aurangzeb was not happy about this appointment and summoned the young Guru to Delhi, where he died stricken with small-pox at the age of eight. It is believed that before his death Guru Hari Krishen declared: "My successor is at the village of Bakala". It is a mystery that the Guru did not name his successor, who was his grandfather's half-brother. According to Sikh tradition twenty-two claimants declared their right to the guruship and set up their headquarters at the village of Bakala. The episode of 'Guru ladho rey' (I've found the Guru) is significant for our discussion concerning the solution of the transfer of guruship to the ninth Guru, Teg Bahadur. According to the tradition one devout Sikh, Makhan Shah Lubana, found the true Guru at Bakala. After examining the credentials of false claimants he met Guru Teg Bahadur and made the declaration: 'Guru ladho rey'. The people of Bakala were pleased to meet their true Guru who had been living at their village for a long time. The pronouncement of 'Guru ladho rey' has an historical significance for understanding the continuity of the line of human gurus and the issue of authority in Sikhism. In this case, it can be argued that a devout Sikh, Makhan Shah, was endowed with the authority to nominate the successor to the eighth Guru, Hari Krishen. Although the Adi Granth (Sikh scripture) and the doctrine of 'bani guru - guru hai bani' (Word is guru and Guru is Word) were available to the Sikhs, the dispute concerning the transfer of guruship was n ot resolved by taking guidance from the Adi Granth. It suggests that the concept of bani guru - guru hai bani had not emerged as the predominant institution within the Sikh tradition by that time. After having been declared the rightful successor to the guruship, Guru Teg Bahadur proceeded to pay his homage to the Harmandir Sahib. He was not allowed to enter the Golden Temple by the custodians, who happened to be his close relatives; they refused to acknowledge his authority as the legitimate successor to the eighth Guru. Guru Teg Bahadur did not assert his authority as Guru to enter the temple. Instead he established his headquarters at Anand Pur. The sociological significance of this episode lies in the fact that the issue of authority within the Sikh tradition remained extremely confused during that period. Guru Teg Bahadur had the attributes of a visionary leader and a true Guru. As the ninth Guru he made an invaluable contribution to the development of Sikh tradition during the most trying period of state oppression against the Hindus. He was publicly beheaded in Delhi for pleading the right of worship for everyone according to his/her faith, and refused to convert to Islam. He was succeeded by his nine year old son, the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh. Guru Gobind Singh introduced some fundamental innovations within the Sikh tradition which had a far reaching impact on the future development of Sikhism. These included the founding of the Khalsa and khandey di pauhal (a new style initiation ceremony). He also introduced a new code of discipline for the initiated Sikhs and gave them a corporate name of 'Singh' and 'Kaur'. He created the first nucleus of initiated Sikhs popularly known as panj pyarey (the five beloved ones) who afterwards initiated the Guru into the newly formed Khalsa brotherhood and gave him the name of 'Singh'. By so doing the Guru implicitly merged his authority with the Khalsa Panth; it can be argued that the founding of the Khalsa was the beginning of the doctrine of Guru Panth. Now we will reflect on the significance of the absence of the ninth Guru, Teg Bahadur, from the Harmandir Sahib which is regarded as the most sacred shrine of the Sikhs. After the incident of 22nd November 1664 when Guru Teg Bahadur was refused permission to enter the Golden Temple, he did not put his foot in Amritsar. Not only that, but his son the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, also paid no visit to the Harmandir Sahib during his life-time. Harmandir Sahib remained under the control of the descendants of Prithi Chand, elder brother of the fifth Guru, Arjun Dev. As a matter of fact they used their control of the Harmandir Sahib to claim their right to the guruship and operated as a parallel centre to that of Anand Pur where the ninth and tenth Gurus established their headquarters. According to Madanjit Kaur (1983), the Harmandir Sahib remained under the complete control of Sodhi Harji, grandson of Prithi Chand, for fifty-seven years. It is evident that the issue of authority continued to pose serious problems for the Sikh community and the Sikh Gurus for a long period. No wonder the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, abolished the institution of masands (guru's nominees). It had been established by the third Guru and flourished under successive Gurus till it became highly corrupt. It was the human Guru who used his authority to disband one of the important institutions set up by his predecessors.

Radhasoami Beas Secret History http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.html

Let me give you short bio of them. Below is the post of someone who has family believing in Radasoamis. _______________________________________________________ Sat Sri Akal, My grandfather was a radhasoami and my father is a radhasoami but I don't believe in them. Personally I don't like the concept of taking something from the mainstream religion and leaving something and then forming a different sect. My grandfather was against people going to the Gurudwaras and considering the Holy Guru Granth Sahibji as the guru. My father is a known radhasoami and he tried his best to persuade me to believe in what radhasaomis say and not in Sikhi but without success. I respect my father but I don't agree with his thinking. The radhasomis believe that their gurus are at a more 'higher level' from the Sikh gurus or any other saints/gurus/prophets for that matter. But when I question them that if that is the case then why do they take bani from the Holy GGS which was written by the 'lower level' Sikh gurus and other saints then they recite Gurbani to say that one should not critisize saints and holy people. The original radhasoamis are from Agra and the radhasoamis at Beas are a breakaway faction.The radhasoamis at beas were once a part of the radhasoamis of agra but then after some time instead of considering the radhasoami gurus at agra as their gurus they started their own gurudom. I know many radhasoamis and I have noticed one thing that most radhasoamis who go to the beas satsang never go to the satsangs organised by the radhasoamis of Agra and vice versa and both of them are quite different from each other, have their own gurus and at present have no interaction with each other. The radhasoami gurus of beas dress like sikhs while the 'original' radhasoami gurus of agra don't. The radhasoamis of beas depend heavily on the Holy Guru Granth Sahibji choosing what they want and discarding what they don't want and refusing to accept the Holy Guru Granth Sahibji as the guru while the radhasoamis of agra don't borrow from the Holy Guru Granth Sahibji, they have their own bani and preach the same. The radhasoamis of beas recognise the first radhasoami guru of agra, who founded the radhasoami faith, and some more gurus of agra before they started their own gurudom at beas They don't recognise the present gurus at Agra and consider their gurus as successors of the original radhasoami guru. The original radhasoami faith of agra does not twist the bani in the Holy Guru Granth Sahibji to suit their needs only the radhasoamis of beas do that. With Regards Balvinder Singh source: http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....1D?OpenDocument