dalsingh101

Might be a few weeks before I can get anything about that book up. I think this will interest a lot of you (it's from Bhangu's Panth Prakash.) It's remarkably similar to the modern Khalsa inaugeration narrative. Possibly an earlier source of it, note it doesn't seem to be presented as taking place on that famous Vasaikhi day.

Nice one! I couldn't find Kavi Kankan in the table of contents????

How so? That is too big a conclusion to draw based in historical evidence. Given that puratan female Sikh experience isn't given as much attention in historical sources as that of men, it's hard to tell conclusively. I'm sure if goray encountered loads of keski/dastaar wearing women when they were eying up the Sikh misls they would have mentioned it in their tracts. This is exactly the type of stuff they would have noted down as 'peculiar' to Sikhs but they didn't. What you posted earlier essentially just stated that Sikh women wore their jooray higher on their head than Hindu women. Not that they wore keskis or dastaars. DO you not think that author would have added the extra few words to note dastar/keski wearing had he encountered it? Plus I hope this doesn't become another thing Sikhs start to bash each other over? Especially as puratan evidence for it is so scant.

I'm not going to lie. I don't believe it myself. I mean, if it was such a norm you would have expected it to be mentioned in a few extant rehats, and or be found in much more older imagery of apnay. I think bibian wearing dastaars is great but still, I don't think it was ever common practice. Anyway, here's a great collection of Sikh female iconography posted by the legendary Freed. Enjoy.

Interesting take I nabbed from Sikhchic:

That is true. When you move away from the politicised Sikhi as characterised by SS, and delve into scripture more, it takes you away from the looking down on and hating Hindus that many Sikhs practice. We do have a lot in common with advaita vedanta and other bhagti movements, but we also have our own unique characteristics too. Then this becomes about what choice you make in terms of emphasising the differences, or similarities. It doesn't help when Hindus turn around and say Sikhs are Hindus. But then certain SIkhs don't truthfully face the fact that frequently the writers of our itihaasik granths call us Hindus too. lol But any Singh who thinks that undoing your hair and putting a red dot on your forehead isn't going to upset a lot of Sikhs is either majorly dumbass or in denial.

Contrast this with how M. Ranjit had his best European doctor looking after jailed convicts. The goray practically killed Maharajah Singh, and that slowly and cruelly too.

See how when you dig deeper, you find the dirt goray have done to us historically. I just don't get how all the Singh Sabha guys ignore this and think the sun shines out their arses???

Some interesting reader comments after the article: So the kirpan is gay now?? What a tosser.

It's ironic in a way. The very place whitey used to start a jihad against us, was used to jihad against them. Poetic justice?

My mate has this book. I'll try and borrow it off him.

Thanks. If you have any epiphanies on the meanings, please do share people.

Fair point. But there does seem to be something about western society that encourages girls to be this way. I think actions such as skimpy dressing and partying hard is rewarded in many ways here. Secretly they probably resent (and even fear) more conservative ways of life (I imagine), in fear of them ever getting popular amongst the masses?

I'm not trying to 'fit' it with meaning. I'm trying to understand it correctly and I'm beginning to suspect that I haven't got the linguistic skills to do this. When you check google other translations come up: From this site:

ਗੁਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ How about Accept the Guru's [ordained] simran during this time of Kalka's Khanda?

No ideas on these folks?? Well, ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ seems to be literally 'time of the broadsword' could it be that ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ, means the 'time of Kalka's broadsword'?? Plus what would be the difference between ਮਨਾਈ and ਮਨਾਇਓ?? MK gives us the following for ਮਨਾਈ: As a stab in dark (no pun intended), how about: ਗੁਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ The Guru made it understood that simran is to be accepted during the time of Kalka's broadsword(???) Bindra translates it thus: "The Guru (in his Tenth Form) entreated the Shakti, the Integrity, by bequeathing the nectar through the Broad Sword"

Is 'high standard' a literal translation?

Just out of interest, how would you feel if you had a daughter that came home like that in a mini skirt when she was at uni? I think a lot of Sikh parents (if not most) would be mortified myself?

Okay guys, need some help translating the following two lines. The first represents the line as it is in the vaar (according to Prof. Sahib Singh), the second version is apparently a common mistaken interpretation. 1) ਗੁਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ 2) ਗੁਰ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਇਓ ਕਾਲ ਕੋ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ What does ਮਨਾਈ mean exactly? What is interesting is that Pandit Narain's steek has the line as follows: 3) ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਸ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ with the extra ਦਾਸ. He further elaborates: (ਉਸੀ) ਗੁਰੂ (ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਨੇ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਸਰੂਪ ਵਿਚ) ਖੰਡੇ (ਦਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕਾਉਣ) ਦੀ ਵਾਰੀ * ਕਾਲ (ਪੁਰਖ) ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ 'ਮਨਾਈ' ਕੀਤਾ ਸੀ। *ਕਾਲ ਪਦ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ, ਸਮਾਂ ਨਹੀਂ । ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ - ਅੰਤਿ ਕਰਤ ਸਭ ਜਗ ਕੋ ਕਾਲਾ ॥ अंति करत सभ जग को काला ॥ At time Thou destroyest the universe; ਨਾਮੁ ਕਾਲ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਜਗ ਡਾਲਾ ॥ नामु काल ता ते जग डाला ॥ Therefore the world hath named you KAL (the Destroyer Lord); ਸਮੈ ਸੰਤ ਪਰ ਹੋਤ ਸਹਾਈ ॥ समै संत पर होत सहाई ॥ Thou hast been helping all the saints; ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸੰਖਯਾ ਸੰਤ ਸੁਨਾਈ ॥੯॥ ता ते संखया संत सुनाई ॥९॥ Therefore the saints have reckoned Thy incarnations Can people help me with literal translations of versions 1 and 2 above?

Try and see past the weird plastic surgery/bottox [???].... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtKIVeC8bnM Sarbhat da bhalla will love this. lol A girl like this is every asian parents nightmare I reckon.

Yes. Make a start on your one and I'll jump in when I finish mine (if need be).

That's what I based my opinion on. Jaap Sahib's opening chand mentions this too, describing God as traibhavan maheep (king of the three worlds. It then states sur (devtay), nar (men), asur (demons). Like you I believe this is a metaphor or Indic conceptualisation for the universe. Upper, manheld and lower regions.

I'm busy trying to finish of one I started earlier. Why don't you make a start with this one? I generally struggle with older stuff anyway (not that I'm not frequently baffled with contemporary stuff too).

ਉਚ-ਕੋਟੀ ????