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JUS Punjabi TV aired Mudda programme today. The hosts were Mr Riar, Gurcharanjit singh Lamba and Mr Bhamra. Ragi darshan singh was on the phone to give clarification for his blasphmeous remarks against Guru gobind singh ji.There were also 15 to 20 of his supporters inside Studio who were allowed as a courtesy. Ragi darshan singh could not show the verses being form dasam Granth that he had quoted in his lectures at various Gurudwaras. He was repeatedly asked by Mr Riar and Mr Lamba to point the lines in dasam Granth that Guru Gobind singh had gone to a prostitute. Failing to do so his supporters felt humbled and started abusing Mr Lamba in the studio itself while the programme was on. After the programme these people abused the hosts in foul language for exposing Ragi Darshan singh for his lies. They created a violent scene inside the studio and threatened Mr Lamba not to speak against their propaganda in future. They held the staff at ransom for sometime and left hurling dirty abuses. This was the shameful act committed by supporters of a heretic ragi who prides himself as Ex jathedar of akal takhat.It is a pity that sikhs have to suffer at the hands of such thugs who want to change sikh scriptures by adopting high handed acts.

manu smrities are the foundation of casteism in Hinduism and very much part of snatan dhrama. Do not blame british for that. I have no intention to malign any religion. It is you who is maligning my religion by stating as below You are making our scripture suspect by making above statement. That is against the guidelines of this forum.You can carry out your malice on a Hindu forum but should not indulge in malicious propaganda on a sikh forum.A few months ago you were an avid supporter of Dasam Granth sahib and now it has become a suspect scripture for you. I can see the fervour of a new convert.

Guru gobind singh wrote his bani wherein he writes frequently about Krishna. i have read dasam granth sahib and i did not find an instance where Guru has asked sikhs to venerate Krishna. Rather he has been shown in very poor light in krishna avtar itself. We have to go by bani of our Guru and not by someone's inference. ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥ क्रिसन औ बिसन जपे तुहि कोटिक राम रहीम भली बिधि धिआयो ॥ Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims. ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਹਿ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥ ब्रहम जपिओ अरु स्मभु थपिओ तहि ते तुहि को किनहूं न बचायो ॥ Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee. ਕੋਟ ਕਰੀ ਤਪਸਾ ਦਿਨ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨ ਕੌਡੀ ਕੋ ਕਾਮ ਕਢਾਯੋ ॥ कोट करी तपसा दिन कोटिक काहूं न कौडी को काम कढायो ॥ Thou hast observed millions of austerities for millions of days, but thou could not be compensated even for the value of a penny . ਕਾਮਕੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਕਸੀਰੇ ਕੇ ਕਾਮ ਨ ਕਾਲ ਕੋ ਘਾਉ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥੯੭॥ कामकु मंत्र कसीरे के काम न काल को घाउ किनहूं न बचायो ॥९७॥ The Mantra recited for fulfillment of worldly desires doth not even bring the least gain and none of such Mantras can save from the blow of KAL.97. ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਕੂਰ ਕਰੈ ਤਪਸਾ ਇਨ ਕੀ ਕੋਊ ਕੌਡੀ ਕੇ ਕਾਮ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥ काहे को कूर करै तपसा इन की कोऊ कौडी के काम न ऐहै ॥ Why doth thou indulge in false austerities, because they will not bring in gain of even one penny. ਤੋਹਿ ਬਚਾਇ ਸਕੈ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਕੈ ਆਪਨ ਘਾਵ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥ तोहि बचाइ सकै कहु कैसे कै आपन घाव बचाइ न ऐहै ॥ They (deities) cannot save themselves form the blow (of KAL), how can they protect thee? ਕੋਪ ਕਰਾਲ ਕੀ ਪਾਵਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮੈ ਆਪ ਟੰਗਿਓ ਤਿਮ ਤੋਹਿ ਟੰਗੈਹੈ ॥ कोप कराल की पावक कुंड मै आप टंगिओ तिम तोहि टंगैहै ॥ They are all hanging in the blazing fire of anger, therefore they will cause thy hanging similarly. ਚੇਤ ਰੇ ਚੇਤ ਅਜੋ ਜੀਅ ਮੈਂ ਜੜ ਕਾਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਾਮ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥੯੮॥ चेत रे चेत अजो जीअ मैं जड़ काल क्रिपा बिनु काम न ऐहै ॥९८॥ O fool! Ruminate now in thy mind; none will be of any use to thee except the grace of KAL.98. ਤਾਹਿ ਪਛਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਨ ਮਹਾ ਪਸੁ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਤਿਹੂੰ ਪੁਰ ਮਾਹੀ ॥ ताहि पछानत है न महा पसु जा को प्रतापु तिहूं पुर माही ॥ O foolish beast! Thou doth not recognize Him, Whose Glory hath spread over all the three worlds. ਪੂਜਤ ਹੈ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੇ ਪਰਸੈ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਪਰਾਹੀ ॥ पूजत है परमेसर कै जिह के परसै परलोक पराही ॥ Thou worship those as Gods, by whose touch thou shalt be driven far away from the next world. ਪਾਪ ਕਰੋ ਪਰਮਾਰਥ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਪਾਪਨ ਤੇ ਅਤਿ ਪਾਪ ਲਜਾਹੀ ॥ पाप करो परमारथ कै जिह पापन ते अति पाप लजाही ॥ Thou art committing such sins in th name of parmarath (the subtle truth) that by committing them the Great sins may feel shy. ਪਾਇ ਪਰੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕੇ ਜੜ ਪਾਹਨ ਮੈਂ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੯੯॥ पाइ परो परमेसर के जड़ पाहन मैं परमेसर नाही ॥९९॥ O fool! Fall at the feet of Lord-God, the Lord is not within the stone-idols.99. ਮੋਨ ਭਜੇ ਨਹੀ ਮਾਨ ਤਜੇ ਨਹੀ ਭੇਖ ਸਜੇ ਨਹੀ ਮੂੰਡ ਮੁੰਡਾਏ॥ मोन भजे नही मान तजे नही भेख सजे नही मूंड मुंडाए॥ The Lord cannot be realized by observing silence, by forsaking pride, by adopting guises and by shaving the head. ਕੰਠਿ ਨ ਕੰਠੀ ਕਠੋਰ ਧਰੈ ਨਹੀ ਸੀਸ ਜਟਾਨ ਕੇ ਜੂਟ ਸੁਹਾਏ ॥ कंठि न कंठी कठोर धरै नही सीस जटान के जूट सुहाए ॥ He cannot be realized by wearing Kanthi (a short necklace of small beads of different kinds made of wood or seeds worn by mendicants or ascetics) for severe austerities or Thy making a knot of matted hair on the head. ਸਾਚੁ ਕਹੋਂ ਸੁਨ ਲੈ ਚਿਤ ਦੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੀਨ ਦਿਆਲ ਕੀ ਸਾਮ ਸਿਧਾਏ ॥ साचु कहों सुन लै चित दै बिनु दीन दिआल की साम सिधाए ॥ Listen attentively, I speak Turth, Thou shalt not achieve the target without going under the Refuge of the LORD, Who is ever Merciful to the lowly. Bachitra natak, dasam granth kabir ji ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਜੁ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਨੰਦ ਕੋ ਨੰਦਨੁ ਨੰਦ ਸੁ ਨੰਦਨੁ ਕਾ ਕੋ ਰੇ ॥ You say that Krishna was Nand's son, but whose son was Nand himself? ਧਰਨਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਦਸੋ ਦਿਸ ਨਾਹੀ ਤਬ ਇਹੁ ਨੰਦੁ ਕਹਾ ਥੋ ਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ When there was no earth or ether or the ten directions, where was this Nand then? ||1||Pause|| ਸੰਕਟਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਰੈ ਜੋਨਿ ਨਹੀ ਆਵੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਰੇ ॥ He does not fall into misfortune, and He does not take birth; His Name is the Immaculate Lord. [ਕਬੀਰ ਕੋ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਐਸੋ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਮਾਈ ਨ ਬਾਪੋ ਰੇ ॥੨॥੧੯॥੭੦॥ Kabeer's Lord is such a Lord and Master, who has no mother or father. ||2||1 Guru gobind singh ji ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੈ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧ ਨੈਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥ एक को छाडि अनेक भजै सुकदेव परासर बयास झुठानयो ॥ फोकट धरम सजे सभ ही हम एक ही कौ बिध नैक प्रमानयो ॥१५॥ Relinquishing the One Lord, you remember many gods and goddesses; in this way you prove Shukdev, Prashar, vyas as liars; all the so-called religions are hollow; I only accept the One Lord as the Providence.15. 33 swaiyes Dasam granth sahib

Gurbani stresses on greatness of one supreme being and that is Nirankar. The names some ignorants mention for God on ang 1082 does not glorify these deities at all. Guru sahib has taken various names for akal purakh who has no names and given his conclusion in two lines that Oh God your primal name is truth. Show us where these deities are called as Gods in sikhism?

harjas kaur touts here that sikhism is part of santan hinudism. santan hinduism considers shudras as inhuman. per them 40 percent of Hindu population i.e. shudras is not worth being called a human being. This is writeen in manu smrities.You should be ashamed of for equating a religion to khasla panth especially when that religion ordains inhuman practices. God is not pleased by such cruel practices. So all so called religious ideas are of zero value if you do not believe in and practice equality among human beings. It is against principles of modern world. remove these pathetic conditions , change/ abandon your religious texts before claiming to be God oriented religion. and above all remove kaur from your name as it is an insult to khalsa.

Of course krishna is a metaphor for maya in this shabad. here pundrak vana means flower in woods and that is refrence to akal purakh. Then came creation came from that flower. This shows that akal purakh was the primal being and then he created creation and this creation is dancing. This is maya of Aakal purakh. So krishana is not akal purakh here but maya clubbed with creation. pahil puree-ay pundrak vanaa. First of all, the lotuses bloomed in the woods; taa chay hansaa saglay janaaN. from them, all the swan-souls came into being. krisnaa tay jaan-oo har har naachantee naachnaa. ||1|| Know that, through Krishna, the Lord, Har, Har, the dance of creation dances. ||1|| pahil pursaabiraa. First of all, there was only the Primal Being. athon pursaadmaraa. From that Primal Being, Maya was produced. ) asgaa as usgaa. All that is, is His. har kaa baagraa naachai pinDhee meh saagraa. ||1|| rahaa-o. In this Garden of the Lord, we all dance, like water in the pots of the Persian wheel. ||1||Pause|| naachantee gopee jannaa. Women and men both dance. na-ee-aa tay bairay kanna. There is no other than the Lord. tarak na chaa. Don't dispute this, bharmee-aa chaa. and don't doubt this. kaysvaa bach-unee a-ee-ay ma-ee-ay ayk aan jee-o. ||2|| The Lord says, "This creation and I are one and the same."||2|| pinDhee ubhkalay sansaaraa. Like the pots on the Persian wheel, sometimes the world is high, and sometimes it is low. bharam bharam aa-ay tum chay du-aaraa. Wandering and roaming around, I have come at last to Your Door. qU kunu ry ] (694-1, DnwsrI, Bgq nwmdyv jI) too kun ray. "Who are you?" mai jee. naamaa. ho jee. "I am Naam Dayv, Sir." aalaa tay nivaarnaa jam kaarnaa. ||3||4|| O Lord, please save me from Maya, the cause of death. ||3||4 ang 693 The shabd you quoted is by Bhagat nam dev ji. Here is what Bhagat Ji writes elsewhere in SGGS ji. His belief system is quite clear indicating that he did not believe in these demigods. he believed in One supreme Lord. So stop touting your fantasies here. paaNday tumraa raamchand so bhee aavat daykhi-aa thaa. O Pandit, I saw your Raam Chand coming too raavan saytee sarbar ho-ee ghar kee jo-ay gavaa-ee thee. ||3|| ; he lost his wife, fighting a war against Raawan. ||3|| hindoo anHaa turkoo kaanaa. The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye. duhaaN tay gi-aanee si-aanaa. The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them.ihMdU pUjY dyhurw hindoo poojai dayhuraa musalmaan maseet. The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque. ) naamay so-ee sayvi-aa jah dayhuraa na maseet. ||4||3||7|| Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque. ||4||3||7|| ang 875

The meaning of that line is Mohammad himself became God instead of preaching truthfulness of supreme Lord.insikhism God does not take birth and does not die, hence he has no names. Various names given to him are functional names only. kirtam naam kathay tayray jihbaa. With my tongue I chant the Names given to You. sat naam tayraa paraa poorbalaa. 'Sat Naam' is Your perfect, primal Name. ang 1083, SGGS In jaap sahib also guru sahib writes ਤ੍ਵ ਸਰਬ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਰਣਤ ਸੁਮਤਿ ॥੧॥ त्व सरब नाम कथै कवन करम नाम बरणत सुमति ॥१॥ All Thy Names cannot be told. That is why aise people have called you by functional names Jaap sahib, Dasam granth We should not be misled by these given names.

It is really nonsense to link sikhism with santan dharma or any other school of thought. it is well known fact that santan dharma endorses caste system.Wheras a sikh takes khande bate di pahul where all from various backgrounds drink amrit from same bowl. That is outright rejection of santanism. It is true that sikhism does not claim exclusive rights over God. but it is equally true that our Guru sahibs gave us a different and simpler method to realize God. While we respect other religions but we resist any attempt to undermine independent status of our religion. Gurus gave us shabd Guru to realize God. Shabad was always there before this creation came into existence and will be there when this universe ends. Guru sahib has advised us satgur no sabh ko vaykh-daa jaytaa jagat sansaar. All the living beings of the world behold the True Guru. dithai mukat na hova-ee jichar sabad na karay veechaar. One is not liberated by merely seeing Him, unless one contemplates the Word of His Shabad. ang 594, SGGS

harjas wrote Again distortion here. Read whole shabad and try to understand. Here krishna is a metaphor for maya.

Shaeediyan ji This is from autobiogarhical part of Bachitra Natak in Dasam granth. This is coming direct from dasam pita and is akal purakh speech to guru sahib.There is no0t an iota of misunderstanding if we believe that tenth master was our Guru. The purpose of writing Dasam granth sahib was to study in detail about these demigods as they are mentioned extensively in SGGS ji. Please read below ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਾਚ ਇਸ ਕੀਟ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ॥ अकाल पुरख बाच इस कीट प्रति ॥ The Words of the Non-temporal Lord to this insect: ਜਬ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਹਮ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਬਨਾਈ ॥ ਦਈਤ ਰਚੇ ਦੁਸਟ ਦੁਖਦਾਈ ॥ जब पहिले हम स्रिसटि बनाई ॥ दईत रचे दुसट दुखदाई ॥ When I created the world in the beginning, I created the ignominious and dreadful Daitya ਤੇ ਭੁਜ ਬਲ ਬਵਰੇ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗਏ ॥ ਪੂਜਤ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਰਹਿ ਗਏ ॥੬॥ ते भुज बल बवरे ह्वै गए ॥ पूजत परम पुरख रहि गए ॥६॥ Who became mad with power and abandoned the worship of Supreme Purusha.6. ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥ ते हम तमकि तनक मो खापे ॥ तिन की ठउर देवता थापे ॥ I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place. ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥ ते भी बलि पूजा उरझाए ॥ आपन ही परमेसुर कहाए ॥७॥ They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotent.7. ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥ महादेव अचु्त कहायो ॥ बिसन आप ही को ठहिरायो ॥ Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme. ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥ ब्रहमा आप पारब्रहम बखाना ॥ प्रभ को प्रभू न किनहूं जाना ॥८॥ Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8. ਤਬ ਸਾਖੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅਸਟ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਾਖ ਨਮਿਤ ਦੇਬੇ ਠਹਿਰਾਏ ॥ तब साखी प्रभ असट बनाए ॥ साख नमित देबे ठहिराए ॥ Then I created eight Sakshis in order to give evidence of my Entity. ਤੇ ਕਹੈ ਕਰੋ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਪੂਜਾ ॥ ਹਮ ਬਿਨ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੯॥ ते कहै करो हमारी पूजा ॥ हम बिन अवरु न ठाकुरु दूजा ॥९॥ But they considered themselves all in all and asked the people to worship them.9. ਪਰਮ ਤਤ ਕੋ ਜਿਨ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕਰਿ ਈਸਰ ਤਿਨ ਕਹੁ ਮਾਨਾ ॥ परम तत को जिन न पछाना ॥ तिन करि ईसर तिन कहु माना ॥ Those who did not comprehend the Lord, they were considered as Ishvara. ਕੇਤੇ ਸੂਰ ਚੰਦ ਕਹੁ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਅਗਨਿ ਹੋਤ੍ਰ ਕਈ ਪਵਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨੈ ॥੧੦॥ केते सूर चंद कहु मानै ॥ अगनि होत्र कई पवन प्रमानै ॥१०॥ Several people worshipped the sun and the moon and several others worshipped Fire and Air.10. ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਾਹਨ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥ ਨ੍ਹਾਤ ਕਿਤੇ ਜਲ ਕਰਤ ਬਿਧਾਨਾ ॥ किनहूं प्रभु पाहन पहिचाना ॥ न्हात किते जल करत बिधाना ॥ Several them considered God as stone and several others bathed considering the Lordship of Water. ਕੇਤਕ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਡਰਪਾਨਾ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਰਾਜ ਕੋ ਧਰਮ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥੧੧॥ केतक करम करत डरपाना ॥ धरम राज को धरम पछाना ॥११॥ Considering Dharmaraja as the Supreme representative of Dharma, several bore fear of him in their actions. 11. ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਾਖ ਨਮਿਤ ਠਹਿਰਾਏ ॥ ਤੇ ਹਿਆਂ ਆਇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਹਵਾਏ ॥ जो प्रभ साख नमित ठहिराए ॥ ते हिआं आइ प्रभू कहवाए ॥ All those whom God established for the revelation of His Supremacy, they called themselves Supreme. ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਬਿਸਰ ਜਾਤੀ ਭੀ ॥ ਅਪਨੀ ਅਪਨੀ ਪਰਤ ਸੋਭ ਭੀ ॥੧੨॥ ता की बात बिसर जाती भी ॥ अपनी अपनी परत सोभ भी ॥१२॥ They forgot the Lord in their race for supremacy. 12 ਜਬ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਨ ਤਿਨੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥ ਤਬ ਹਰਿ ਇਨ ਮਨੁਛਨ ਠਹਿਰਾਨਾ ॥ जब प्रभ को न तिनै पहिचाना ॥ तब हरि इन मनुछन ठहिराना ॥ When they did not comprehend the Lord, then I established human beings in their place. ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਸਿ ਮਮਤਾ ਹੁਇ ਗਏ ॥ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਪਾਹਨ ਠਹਿਰਏ ॥੧੩॥ ते भी बसि ममता हुइ गए ॥ परमेसर पाहन ठहिरए ॥१३॥ They also were overpowered by `mineness` and exhibited the Lord in statues.13. ਤਬ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਧ ਸਾਧ ਠਹਿਰਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਏ ॥ तब हरि सिध साध ठहिराए ॥ तिन भी परम पुरखु नही पाए ॥ Then I created Siddhas and sadhs, who also could not realize the Lord. ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਤ ਭਯੋ ਜਗਿ ਸਿਆਨਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਤਿਨ ਅਪਨੋ ਪੰਥੁ ਚਲਾਨਾ ॥੧੪॥ जे कोई होत भयो जगि सिआना ॥ तिन तिन अपनो पंथु चलाना ॥१४॥ On whomsoever wisdom dawned, he started his own path. 14. ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਬੈਰ ਬਾਦ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ ਬਢਾਯੋ ॥ परम पुरख किनहूं नह पायो ॥ बैर बाद अहंकार बढायो ॥ None could realise the Supreme Lord, but instead spread strife, enmity and ego. ਪੇਡ ਪਾਤ ਆਪਨ ਤੇ ਜਲੈ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੈ ਪੰਥ ਨ ਕੋਊ ਚਲੈ ॥੧੫॥ पेड पात आपन ते जलै ॥ प्रभ कै पंथ न कोऊ चलै ॥१५॥ The tree and the leaves began to burn, because of the inner fire.None followed the path of the Lord.15. ਜਿਨਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਤਨਿਕ ਸਿਧ ਕੋ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਅਪਨਾ ਰਾਹੁ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥ जिनि जिनि तनिक सिध को पायो ॥ तिनि तिनि अपना राहु चलायो ॥ Whosoever attained a little spiritual power, he started his own path. ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥ ਮਮ ਉਚਾਰਿ ਤੇ ਭਯੋ ਦਿਵਾਨਾ ॥੧੬॥ परमेसर न किनहूं पहिचाना ॥ मम उचारि ते भयो दिवाना ॥१६॥ None could comprehend the Lord, but instead became mad with `I-ness`.16. ਪਰਮ ਤੱਤ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ ਆਪ ਆਪ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਉਰਝਾਨਾ ॥ परम त्त किनहूं न पछाना ॥ आप आप भीतरि उरझाना ॥ Nobody recognized the Supreme Essence, but was entangled within himself. ਤਬ ਜੇ ਜੇ ਰਿਖਿ ਰਾਜ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਆਪਨ ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਚਲਾਏ ॥੧੭॥ तब जे जे रिखि राज बनाए ॥ तिन आपन पुन सिम्रित चलाए ॥१७॥ All the great rishis (sages), who were then created, produced their own Smritis.17. ਜੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ जे सिम्रितन के भए अनुरागी ॥ तिनि तिनि क्रिआ ब्रहम की तिआगी ॥ All those who became followers of these smritis, they abandoned the path of the Lord. ਜਿਨ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥ ਸੋ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਹ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੧੮॥ जिन मन हरि चरनन ठहिरायो ॥ सो सिम्रितन के राह न आयो ॥१८॥ Those who devoted themselves to the Feet of the Lord, they did not adopt the path of the Smritis.18. ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਚਾਰ ਹੀ ਬੇਦ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਕ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਮ ਚਲਾਏ ॥ ब्रहमा चार ही बेद बनाए ॥ सरब लोक तिह करम चलाए ॥ Brahma composed all the four Vedas, all the people followed the injunctions contained in them. ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਲਿਵ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਤੇ ਬੇਦਨ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥੧੯॥ जिन की लिव हरि चरनन लागी ॥ ते बेदन ते भए तिआगी ॥१९॥ Those who were devoted to the Feet of the Lord, they abandoned the Vedas.19. ਜਿਨ ਮਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬਨ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥ जिन मति बेद कतेबन तिआगी ॥ पारब्रहम के भए अनुरागी ॥ Those who abandoned the path of the Vedas and Katebs, they became the devotees of the Lord. ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਗੂੜ ਮਤਿ ਜੇ ਚਲਹੀ ॥ ਭਾਤਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਦੁਖਨ ਸੋ ਦਲਹੀ ॥੨੦॥ तिन के गूड़ मति जे चलही ॥ भाति अनेक दुखन सो दलही ॥२०॥ Whosoever follows their path, he crushes various types of sufferings.20. ਜੇ ਜੇ ਸਹਿਤ ਜਾਤਨ ਸੰਦੇਹਿ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਸੰਗਿ ਨ ਛੋਡਤ ਨੇਹ ॥ जे जे सहित जातन संदेहि ॥ प्रभ को संगि न छोडत नेह ॥ Those who consider the castes illusory, they do not abandon the love of the Lord. ਤੇ ਤੇ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰੀ ਕਹ ਜਾਹੀ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕਛੁ ਨਾਹੀਂ ॥੨੧॥ ते ते परम पुरी कह जाही ॥ तिन हरि सिउ अंतरु कछु नाहीं ॥२१॥ When they leave the world, they go to the abode of the Lord, and there is no difference between them and the Lord.21. ਜੇ ਜੇ ਜੀਯ ਜਾਤਨ ਤੇ ਡਰੈ ॥ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਤਜਿ ਤਿਨ ਮਗਿ ਪਰੈ ॥ जे जे जीय जातन ते डरै ॥ परम पुरख तजि तिन मगि परै ॥ Those who fear the castes and follow their path, abandoning the Supreme Lord. ਤੇ ਤੇ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮੋ ਪਰਹੀ ॥ ਬਾਰ ਬਾਰ ਜਗ ਮੋ ਬਪੁ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੨੨॥ ते ते नरक कुंड मो परही ॥ बार बार जग मो बपु धरही ॥२२॥ They fall into hell and transmigrate again and again.22. ਤਬ ਹਰਿ ਬਹੁਰ ਦਤ ਉਪਜਾਇਓ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਅਪਨਾ ਪੰਥੁ ਚਲਾਇਓ ॥ तब हरि बहुर दत उपजाइओ ॥ तिन भी अपना पंथु चलाइओ ॥ Then I created Dutt, who also started his own path. ਕਰ ਮੋ ਨਖ ਸਿਰ ਜਟਾਂ ਸਵਾਰੀ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ ॥੨੩॥ कर मो नख सिर जटां सवारी ॥ प्रभ की क्रिआ कछु न बिचारी ॥२३॥ His followed have long nail in their hands and matted hair on their heads . They did not understand the ways of the Lord.23 ਪੁਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੋਰਖ ਕੌ ਉਪਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਸਿਖ ਕਰੇ ਤਿਨਹੂੰ ਬਡ ਰਾਜਾ ॥ पुनि हरि गोरख कौ उपराजा ॥ सिख करे तिनहूं बड राजा ॥ Then I created Gorakh, who made great kings his disciples. ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ਫਾਰਿ ਮੁਦ੍ਰਾ ਦੁਐ ਡਾਰੀ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਰੀਤਿ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ ॥੨੪॥ स्रवन फारि मुद्रा दुऐ डारी ॥ हरि की प्रीत रीति न बिचारी ॥२४॥ His disciples wear rings in their ears and do not know the love of the lord.24. ਪੁਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਕੋ ਕਰਾ ॥ ਭੇਸ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਕੋ ਜਿਨਿ ਧਰਾ ॥ पुनि हरि रामानंद को करा ॥ भेस बैरागी को जिनि धरा ॥ Then I created Ramanand, who adopted the path of Bairagi. ਕੰਠੀ ਕੰਠਿ ਕਾਠ ਕੀ ਡਾਰੀ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਨ ਕਛੂ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ ॥੨੫॥ कंठी कंठि काठ की डारी ॥ प्रभ की क्रिआ न कछू बिचारी ॥२५॥ Around his neck he wore necklace of wooden beads and did not comprehend the ways of the Lord.25. ਜੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਉਪਜਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਤਿਨ ਅਪਨੇ ਰਾਹ ਚਲਾਏ ॥ जे प्रभु परम पुरख उपजाए ॥ तिन तिन अपने राह चलाए ॥ All the great Purushas created by me started their own paths. ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਤਬ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਉਪਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਅਰਬ ਦੇਸ ਕੋ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜਾ ॥੨੬॥ महादीन तब प्रभ उपराजा ॥ अरब देस को कीनो राजा ॥२६॥ Then I created Muhammed, who was made the master of Arabia.26. ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਏਕ ਪੰਥ ਉਪਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਲਿੰਗ ਬਿਨਾ ਕੀਨੇ ਸਭ ਰਾਜਾ ॥ तिन भी एक पंथ उपराजा ॥ लिंग बिना कीने सभ राजा ॥ He started a religion and circumcised all the kings. ਸਭ ਤੇ ਅਪਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਯੋ ॥੨੭॥ सभ ते अपना नामु जपायो ॥ सति नामु काहूं न द्रिड़ायो ॥२७॥ He caused all to utter his name and did not give True Name of the Lord with firmness to anyone.27. ਸਭ ਅਪਨੀ ਅਪਨੀ ਉਰਝਾਨਾ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਾਹੂ ਨ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ सभ अपनी अपनी उरझाना ॥ पारब्रहम काहू न पछाना ॥ Everyone placed his own interest first and foremost and did not comprehend the Supreme Brahman. ਤਪ ਸਾਧਤ ਹਰਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਬੁਲਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਮ ਕਹਿ ਕੈ ਇਹ ਲੋਕ ਪਠਾਯੋ ॥੨੮॥ तप साधत हरि मोहि बुलायो ॥ इम कहि कै इह लोक पठायो ॥२८॥ When I was busy in the austere devotion, the Lord called me and sent me to this world with the following words.28. Bachitra natak, Dasam granth

Harjas kaur wrote ਏ This is from asa di vaar.Are you fooling around here. This is a metaphor for Waheguru.It is a mistake to derive literal meaning especially when Guru sahib says in asa di vaar a few pages before naanak nirbha-o nirankaar hor kaytay raam ravaal. O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him. kaytee-aa kanH kahaanee-aa kaytay bayd beechaar. There are so many stories of Krishna, so many who reflect over the Vedas. ang 464, SGGS j

Harjas kaur ji Beofre you further tout these demigods and call sikhism as a derivative religion, keep in mind that sikhs have been advised to follow shabad Guru. Our Gurus told us not to worship them but follow shabad Guru.

Whole humanity is creation of akal purakh. God operates through his creation. these demigods have no special status as they lived in maya and died in maya. Verses you are citing here do not accord any special status to these demi Gods howsoever you may try to distort those. Read below and keep in mind ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥ ते हम तमकि तनक मो खापे ॥ तिन की ठउर देवता थापे ॥ I destroyed them in no time and created demigods in their place. ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥ ते भी बलि पूजा उरझाए ॥ आपन ही परमेसुर कहाए ॥७॥ They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotent.7. ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥ महादेव अचु्त कहायो ॥ बिसन आप ही को ठहिरायो ॥ Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme. ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥ ब्रहमा आप पारब्रहम बखाना ॥ प्रभ को प्रभू न किनहूं जाना ॥८॥ Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8. ਜਿਨਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਤਨਿਕ ਸਿਧ ਕੋ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਅਪਨਾ ਰਾਹੁ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥ जिनि जिनि तनिक सिध को पायो ॥ तिनि तिनि अपना राहु चलायो ॥ Whosoever attained a little spiritual power, he started his own path. ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ ॥ ਮਮ ਉਚਾਰਿ ਤੇ ਭਯੋ ਦਿਵਾਨਾ ॥੧੬॥ परमेसर न किनहूं पहिचाना ॥ मम उचारि ते भयो दिवाना ॥१६॥ None could comprehend the Lord, but instead became mad with `I-ness`.16. ਜਿਨ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥ ਸੋ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਹ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੧੮॥ जिन मन हरि चरनन ठहिरायो ॥ सो सिम्रितन के राह न आयो ॥१८॥ Those who devoted themselves to the Feet of the Lord, they did not adopt the path of the Smritis.18. Bachitra natak, Dasam granth sahib that is the opinion of harjas kaur who recently changed her views and turned 180 degree. Gurbani does not say that. Show us from gurbani. naa ham hindoo na musalmaan. I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. alah raam kay pind paraan. ||4|| My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4|| ang 1136 SGGS ji In jaap sahib ਦੇਵ ਭੇਵ ਨ ਜਾਨਈ ਜਿਹ ਬੇਦ ਅਉਰ ਕਤੇਬ ॥ Dev bhev na jaanayee jih beda or kateb The mystery of God is unknown to any demigod and it is also indescribable by the scriptures -- Vedas, Qran, Bible etc. (Guru Gobind Singh Jee, Jaap Sahib 82) ਸਵ ਬਿਰੰਚਿ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਮੋਨਿ ਜਨ ਗਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਾਹਿ ਗਤਾ ॥ Siv biranch aru sagal moni jan gahi na sakaahi gataa: Shiva, Brahma and all the silent sages cannot understand the state of the Supreme Being (sggs 498).

N30 singh ji I have respect for damdami taksal. But for getting sikh message Gurbani is the guide. gurbani is quite clear on their status with respect to akal purakh naanak nirbha-o nirankaar hor kaytay raam ravaal. O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him. kaytee-aa kanH kahaanee-aa kaytay bayd beechaar. There are so many stories of Krishna, so many who reflect over the Vedas. ang 464, SGGS ji dasam granth goes in detail about these avatars. guru ji has described these two demigods as avtar of Vishnu.In return Vishnu is creation of akal purakh. janam maran tay rahat naaraa-in. ||1|| rahaa-o. The Lord is beyond birth and death. ||1||Pause|| kar panjeer khavaa-i-o chor. You prepare sweet treats and feed them to your stone god. oh janam na marai ray saakat dhor. ||2|| God is not born, and He does not die, you foolish, faithless cynic! ||2|| sagal paraaDh deh loronee. You sing lullabyes to your stone god - this is the source of all your mistakes.) so mukh jala-o jit kaheh thaakur jonee. ||3|| Let that mouth be burnt, which says that our Lord and Master is subject to birth. ||3|| janam na marai na aavai na jaa-ay. He is not born, and He does not die; He does not come and go in reincarnation. naanak kaa parabh rahi-o samaa-ay. ||4||1|| The God of Nanak is pervading and permeating everywhere. ||4||1|| ang 1136, SGGS ji Bhagat kabir ji writes poojaa kara-o na nivaaj gujaara-o. I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers. ayk nirankaar lay ridai namaskaara-o. ||3|| I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3|| naa ham hindoo na musalmaan. I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. alah raam kay pind paraan. ||4|| My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4|| ang 1136 SGGS ji

please quote Gurbani where it is written 1) That krishna is an avtar and avtar of whom? Trinity of brahma , vishnu and mahesh has not same status in sikhism as in hinudism. In Hinudism they are supreme and there is no power above them. in sikhism they are creation of akal purakh. Harjas kaur You are not same harjas kaur as you were a couple of years ago. You have been initiated with Hindu thought.

Does according God's status to these demigods a deeper philosophy you believe in. ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਡੋਲਹਿ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਾ ॥ ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਅਕੁਲੁ ਨਹੀ ਚੇਤਿਆ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਸਿਉ ਲਪਟਾਨਾ ॥: Devee devaa poojahi dolahi paarbrah nahee jaanaa. Kahat Kabeer akul nahee chetiaa bikhiaa siyu lapataanaa: O man, you worship gods and goddesses, but you do not know the Supreme Being. Says Kabeer, you have not remembered the Lord who has no ancestors; you are clinging to your corrupt ways (Ang 332). ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥: Devi devaa mool hai Maya: Maya is the origin of demigods sggs 129 I do not worship those who have not been able to go beyond maya.

Maha singh ji I have given quotes from Sikh scripture. Please let me know wherein sikh scriptures these Demigods are advised to be worshipped. Do not rely on harjas kaur only. We are not a derivative religion. Have you read Bhai Gurdas ji di vaar maria sikka jagat vich nanak nirmal panth chalaya

Guru sahib on status of these demigods ਕਯੋਂ ਕਹੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧ ਹੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜ ਤੇ ਬੱਧਕ ਬਾਣ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਅਉਰ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਉਧਾਰਤ ਜੋ ਕਿਹ ਤੇ ਅਪਨੋ ਕੁਲ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥ कयों कहु क्रिशन क्रिपानिध है किह काज ते ब्धक बाण लगायो ॥ अउर कुलीन उधारत जो किह ते अपनो कुल नासु करायो ॥ Krishna himself is considered the treasure of Grace, then why did the hunter shoot his arrow at him ? He has been described as redeeming the clans of others then he caused the destruction of his own clan; 33 swaiye, Dasam granth Also Guru ji advises us ਕਹੂੰ ਲੈ ਠੋਕ ਬਧੇ ਉਰ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੌ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਕਹਯੋ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਸੀਤ ਕੈ ਬੀਚ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ कहूं लै ठोक बधे उर ठाकुर काहूं महेश कौ एस बखानयो ॥ काहूं कहयो हरि मंदर मै हरि काहूं मसीत कै बीच प्रमानयो ॥ Someone has tied the stone-idol around his neck and someone has accepted Shiva as the Lord; someone considers the Lord within the temple or the mosque; ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨੇ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਯੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਹੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਨੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਉ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੨॥ काहूं ने राम कहयो क्रिशना कहु काहूं मनै अवतारन मानयो ॥ फोकट धरम बिसार सभै करतार ही कउ करता जीअ जानयो ॥१२॥ Someone calls him Ram or Krishna and someone believes in His incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only the One Creator.12. 33 swaiye , Dasam granth

Gurbani considers krishna as an avtar of Vishnu. Vishnu per hinduism is one of the supreme Lord. Sikhism rejects that. per sikhism Supreme Lord is akal purakh. Sikh scriptures describe Krishna as an Avtar of Vihsnu and not of Akal purakh. Krishna was one of the avtar of vishnu. This what guru sahib says in Dasam granth about God. ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਕਹੂੰ ਨ ਤਾਹਿ ਲਖਾਯੋ ॥ किनहूं कहूं न ताहि लखायो ॥ None hath been able to comprehend Thee, ਇਹ ਕਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲਖ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ इह करि नामु अलख कहायो ॥ Therefore thou hast been called `Alakh` (Incompre-hensible); ਜੋਨਿ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਆਯਾ ॥ जोनि जगत मै कबहूं न आया ॥ Thou dost not take birth in the world; ਯਾਤੇ ਸਭੋ ਅਜੋਨ ਬਤਾਯਾ ॥੧੩॥ याते सभो अजोन बताया ॥१३॥ Therefore all called Thee `Ajon` (Unborn).13 Chaubis avtar, Dasam granth ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥ आदि अजोनि कहाइ कहो किम देवकि के जठरंतर आयो ॥ तात न मात कहै जिह को तिह कयों बसुदेवहि बापु कहायो ॥१४॥ He ( krishna) is said to be unborn and beginningless, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki ? He , who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father?14. 33 swaiyes , dasam granth sahib ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥ जो चउबीस अवतार कहाए ॥ Those who are called twenty-four incarnations; ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਿਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥ तिन भी तुम प्रभ तनिक न पाए ॥ O Lord ! they even could not realise thee in a small measure; ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਭਰਮੇ ਭਵ ਰਾਯੰ ॥ सभ ही जग भरमे भव रायं ॥ They became kings of the world and got deluded; ਤਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯੰ ॥੭॥ ता ते नाम बिअंत कहायं ॥७॥ Therefore they were called by innumerable names.. Chaubis avtar , Dasam granth ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥ आदि अजोनि कहाइ कहो किम देवकि के जठरंतर आयो ॥ तात न मात कहै जिह को तिह कयों बसुदेवहि बापु कहायो ॥१४॥ He ( krishna) is said to be unborn and beginningless, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki ? He , who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father?14. 33 swaiyes , dasam granth sahib Our Gurus did not have different opinions about status of these demigods. Moreover on ang 1082 there are various functional names of God. That does not mean that God came down to this earth as these deities.

More information on boozer ragi darshan singh khalsaland wrote on 22 October 2009 - 12:22 AM, http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php/topic/47582-ragi-darshan-singhs-lies-exposed-by-jus-punjabi-tv/page__st__12 Unquote I too have heard that he takes liquor every evening. So two sources can never be wrong. This is what i have to say on these Gurnindaks In todays anti sikh newspaper spokesman timid Jagtar jachak gave a statement criticzing Gurcharanjit singh lamba for criticzing Darshan singh ragi. jagtar jachak is a habitual liar like Darshan ragi whose only aim was to disregard truth brought about by Mr lamba while exposing lies resorted to by Ragi darshan singh. It is well known that midget scholar and self made professor Darshan singh is misleading ignorant sikhs by lying about Dasam bani. The fact is this self styled professor has not understood Dasam granth due to limitation on his intellectual capability as he does not understand the meaning of a myth which is extensively used by guru sahib in chariropakhayan. Unable to undwerstand these secular tales which are to impart moral lessons ragi is interpreting those literally and linking to the life of tenth master. Thus fake professor is committing blasphemy and should be hauled up before akal takhat for that. His mole jachak has been applying for head granthi of harmanidr sahib for the last so many years without being successful so far. One of the conditions for becoming Head Granthi of darbar sahib is to have the experience of katha of Dasam granth sahib. The aspirant has to sign a document agreeing to that. Obviopusly Jachak has signed this document and then only he was considered for this post. Here lies the double standard of Jachak. On one side he agrees to do katha of Dasam granth sahib and on the other side when he fails to get the post he hurls abuses at bani of Dasam Pita. What a shameful character with double standards who lies to garner personal benefits. It is a pity that such low grade persons who have no character and moral standards aspire to become head priests of sikhs. How can a liar become head granthi? If likes of darshan singh and his side kick Jachak think that lamba is wrong why do not they present their case especially when JUS Punjabi TV have offered Darshan singh this chance. They will not do that because they know that they are wrong and have been caught by Mr Lamba. Their main aim is to conduct propaganda to mislead sikhs and erode their faith.

Welcome harjas kaur ji.It is good to have Harjas kaur ji on this website. Akali Mihungs were the pride of khalsa army. They were true sikhs who sacrificed lives without a question for expanding khalsa Raj. They were not receiving any pay for their services. They were always in charhdi kala. British called them famnatic ecause they were never ready for making a deal. In 1984( especially after June) Indian Govt was calling amritdhari sikhs as fanatics. They were termed as dangerous in Indian army magazine " baat cheet" and to be kept under watch. Why so? The sole reason was that whereas akalis led by longoiwal for for sale damdami taksal led by bhindrewale was gainst any sell out. So those who do not compromise their principles are termed as fanatics by the forces that are in power.

Latest on ragi's balsphemy against personality of Guru sahib. There was janta di awaaz programme aired by JUS punjabi every Tuesday. Host revealed today that President of JUS punjabi sent a personal invitation to ragi darshan singh to appear on TV and present his views on the charge against him. Darshan singh says that he will think about it in March 2010. What does it mean? It means that he will not contest the charge as it is 100 percent true. THis is called evasive stand.

It takes time for a normal man to realize that they are being led a wrong path. Need of the hour is to blunt his propaganda against Dasam bani. That he was doing taking advantage of his links with sikh Gurudwaras. There is a surge against him on this. In my opinion he will be another kala afghana confined to historical archives in due course of time. We all need to contribute our bit towards this.

singh ji In my view a ragi should not do katha in kirtan. Darshan singh does kirtan with heavy dose of katha. he starts katha in kirtan and then forgets what kirtan he was doing. He was banned from doing kirtan at darbar sahib Amritsar and i8 Gurudwaras of Toronto for this bad habit. He is a good speaker of Punjabi and he thinks he can mislead sikhs with jugglery of words.For money he offered to do propaganda against Dasam granth sahib a bani he was reading all his life in kirtan. I ahve not seen a traitor and akirtghan like him.

As written in previous post it is not out yet. As sson as we get it , it will be posted. The programme was based on the video whose clip has been posted.