sikh_fauge

bro, who is immam ali? lets not get into a dispute mr singh, we're all brothers on the same path hunah GROUP HUG!

Q.3: 118-120 O you who believe! Take not as (your) bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends, etc.) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since hey will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from heir mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made clear to you the aayaat (proofs, evidence, verses), if you understand. Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e., you believe in the Tawraat and the Injeel, while they disbelieve in your Book (the Qur’an)]. And when they meet you, they say, ‘We believe.’ But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: ‘Perish in your rage. Certainly Allah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets).’ If a good befalls you, it grieves them, but some evil overtakes you, they rejoice at it…

Its brilliant they treat u with so much love when ur celebrating with them..but how many of them go to the gurudwara and rejoyce at the birth of guru gobind singh ji? There are countless muslims who were our brothers..past and present..and they helped singhs alot (namely shias)..i love them as my own..no dispute..but this doesnt have a reflection on islam or its teachings. Please send me quotes on islam accepting other faiths? especially those after the prophet. Also are shias u talk so highly of the same shias who beat themselves to death?? Could u explain this to me please..and where in koran it is written they should perform this? If there is no koranic support, then how do we know everything else they beleive in is derived from islam? Maybe like nirankaris, these guys have their own relegion..sort of like a blend of what they feel like following

Why are u so hell bound to preach about islam to us and how brilliant it really is? Ur acting real insecure and suspicously to me. At the end of the day; jew muslim christian hindu sikh or buddhist..i dnt give two tattis..most my best mates are muslim. Its about love and devotion to god. Im glad uve met nice muslims out there; but that doesnt reflect the teachings of the koran (from the countless references made to kaffurs and people who reject the teachings from the semetic faiths.) At the end of the day i wish muslims were open minded as shias, but 90% arent..and im not about to change that for them. Instead i focus on my own connection with waheguru..the rest is his play

In the same way the khalsa is the embodiment of the gurus; the muslims in world follow the words of the their prophet and hence reflect his teachings. Even the most tolerant sect of ahmidyas in punjab in essence claim sikhi is just an offshoot of islam. I think u need to wake up and smell the coffee; the mentality of muslims, in general, isnt as pleasant as u think..it never was with hindus in india..it never was with the mughals before that..it never was with the gurus and the khalsa..and it continues to be intolerant to this day and age; the immigration of thousands of sikhs from islamic countries can be seen today (as well as other non muslims.).where there is muslims, there is ultmiately conflict..its sad but true..this is their faith (exception being some sects which love godly men)..dnt spend so much time focusing on ur muslim brothers lalleshvari, jst focus on ur own spirituality.

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him and he will be one of the losers in the Hereafter. (Quran, 3:85)

I dont understand how people who follow these teachings (fair enough) can truley embrace other faiths. The condition those shias laid onto u, is that u have to mourn with them. Had u not turned up to that event would they have called u brother?? Mr singh keep the quotes coming..i like reading other relegious hyms,etc

Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but he is the Messenger of God and the last of the prophets... (Quran, 33:40)

But whoever turns away from the Quran,1 he will have a hard life, and We will raise him up blind on the Day of Judgment. (Quran, 20:124)

And if you are in doubt about what We have revealed (the Quran) to Our worshiper (Muhammad ), then produce a chapter like it, and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides God if you are truthful. And if you do not do it, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones. It has been prepared for disbelievers. And give good news (O Muhammad) to those who believe and do good deeds, that for them are gardens (Paradise) in which rivers flow.... (Quran, 2:23-25)

'And do not marry idolatresses until they believe.' Soorah al-Baqarah, Aayah 221

P.S the prophet mohammeds relationships with those women doesnt have any reflection on his teachings/beleifs. In the koran, and i shall post it later, a muslim is taught to treat other women i.e non muslim, like a slave. Hence these wives of his were mere sex partners nothing more nothing less.

Veera, in reference to number five (point above) does that mean they only accept u on the condition that u mourn with them (over their prophets/saints)?? What u have to remember there are millions upon millions of muslims (sunni) who do not regard shias and sufis as muslims; parallel to sikhs not accepting nirankaris,etc because they go against the basic tenants of guru gobind singh jis last rehit to the sikhs. These individuals, as far as im aware- and have been informed by other muslims- arent 'proper' muslims and they dnt represent the prophets teachings i.e the koran, and the haddith. Also, the gurus didnt mock islam ur right, but to an extent..guru nanak dev jis visit to mecca clearly illustrates that the lord cannot be found in the west,etc (which has become a practise of muslims); also that praying out of ritual/routine is of no avail (which is another norm with muslims nowadays, and alot of sikhs.) But to counter this point, guru gobind singh jis zafarnama is being taken out of context a) because aurangzeb had lied about keeping peace b)because he had sworn on the prophet c)aurangzeb was a known scholar and respected man on islam. It was this hypocrisy of aurangzeb that guru questioned i.e despite proclaiming his faith to the people, and declaring his love of islam, he still stooped as low as to lie even when he swore on the prophet and the koran. Also, as i mentioned, guru gobind singh jis bichittar natak in dasam granth (which alot of people ignore) explains basically, the history of relegion. I dont agree sikhi is the only way..rab apai melondha..it isnt for us to decide who he brings into himself. However i feel sikhi picked up from where other faiths left off; not because they were false (to an extent) but because they had lost their basic essence of existence. Sikhi for me is the only concise faith; and FOR ME, the clearest path to salvation. In addition it is the ONLY faith which practises tolerance; why? because it is embodied in our teachings from the gurus, and not something which has evolved over time (which is what shias are.)

Foolish are those who forget their lord god and creator. Take such foolish comments with a pinch of salt..but when shit hits the fan, just make sure ur prepared!

Truth has no label; truth has no colour or caste; lets not turn into brahmins and start saying we are the only way, and only we can acheive salvation,etc. Salvation can be acheived by numerous ways, in the same way 1+1=2 and 2x1=2. However sikhi, for ME, is the most concise and clearest way of acheiving salvation. And at the same time, i do beleive it is one of the only paths which allows us to acheive union with god whilst alive. But this is my personal view. Even the bhagats and pirs who wrote hyms in the guru granth sahi ji, practised paths which one can only describe as truthful (they rejected rituals/empty practises from their respected faiths i.e hinduism and islam. For e.g bhagat kabir ji rejected circumcision and said it was unholy and against gods will; thus going against the prophets sunnah/way of lviing.) As for taking amrit,etc..for us to be called sikhs- all we have to do is be willing to learn/seekers of truth..but for us to be khalsa i.e pure ones, amrit is a NECESSITY. Without delving into the whys,etc all im going to say is our GURU, took amrit and knelt before the panj pyarai..shame on those who think we are higher than the guru, so as to avoid taking amrit. Waheguru

Gurfateh. The gurus united hindus and muslims under the branch of sikhi. However this path of sikhi would be one which makes no distinction among human beings on the basis of faith. And we dont; sikhism isnt a faith, IT IS a way of life/way of living/lifestyle. However sikhi existing and being a seperate entity doesnt in any way mean we divide ourselves from humanity (unlike the hindus and muslims of the gurus time, and even today); far from it, sikhi brings us closer to gods creation and teaches us to love all devotees and beings of god. 'call him a relegious man, who makes no distinction amongst mankind'-guru nanak dev ji. As for sikhi being an offshoot or reinforcement of hinduism; i disagree. Although there is alot of similarities; the message of the gurus was from sachkhand (gods abode); hence it was not derived from any faith; however i agree there is alot of similarities with christianity and hinduism, and even more so with islam. Gurfateh

Gurfateh. Where can i find the poems of bhai gurdas ji in his reference to the prophet mohammed? Although i totally agree with some of my brothers comments about sikhi being about love and loving gods saints (REGARDLESS of what faith they practised to acheive that status) however i do feel sikhi picked up where other faiths left off. If sikhi was an addition to the already existing faiths, with no special attribution, then there would be no point in sikhi existing. If we read the bani in dasam granth guru gobind singh ji clearly states that the prophet and other saints prior to his arrival were engrossed in ego,etc. Hence this is reflected in the koran and its followers (not all muslims, shias and sufis being the general exception.) And can someone explain why he isnt mentioned with respect in sggs unlike the numerous saints of hinduism? Also i think we have to be understanding in regards to the people who have made this website; the situation between pakistani muslims and sikhs in the uk isnt brilliant; and with the constant propaganda and anti sikh slogans both inside and outside mosques such a website on sikhi slandering islam was only a matter of time. Its just frustration on the sikhs part who made this website. Lets not hate them, instead understand where theyre coming from. Waheguru

I totally agree with ur views to an extent penji. And although ur analogy in regards to bani and the guru is excellent, i dnt think its true. Why? Because in sukhmani sahib and rehraas sahib..and even jap ji sahib..we are told to contemplate and act upon the virtues of god..we are told to sing his divine virtues and praise him..we are told to reflect up on his word..since bani is the word of god, and is the praise of god,etc it goes without saying that we should read our bani all the time. Because this is worship. In addition, our gurus sang bani/jap ji/rehraas/arti/kirtan sohila..are we that above the gurus that we cant even do the same?? Bani has a subconscience affect..on the mind and soul..its benefits are amazing..but sometimes unknown to the reader..in essense bani is like naam jap...because we are always glorifying waheguru and the gurus (who are the reflection of god.) We cant replace bani..and a guideline of reading bani,as the gurus did, on a daily basis is esential..however i agree, with an indirect point, that we shouldnt focus on it so blindly that it becomes a ritual..we have to take in/contemplate on the word i.e bani..and practise it in life. Lets read bani because we wont spiritual elevation, not because a bakhandi singh tells us (i think it what u mean, and i agree.) And khalsa has been given that authority to be guru..this is evident on the vaisakhi of 1699..and although some khalsa are not so, it is not in our place to make such judgment..all we can do is have faith in them..or perhaps become khalis ourselves so we become an inspiration. Bul chak maaf

Hopefully reading all those banis will help control ur anger paji.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa. Wheguru ji ki fateh. Someone please explain to me, what is a hindu?? Hindu is a nationality i.e hindustan. Forgive me if im wrong, but wasnt this a term given to the kaffurs i.e non muslims by mughal invaders?? Moving to my real point..someone please explain this to me..how can someone copy truth? Because by saying the gurus message was indeed a reformation of hinduism and islam, this is what we are implying. And to me, its absurd. Truth is everlasting..always will be truth..always has been..and will forever be truth..hence the message of the almighty will always be truthful since it has been ordained by him. Hence the term prophets/messengers of god/saints,etc. They all see/feel the truth, and in their vision (something we have no experience of) they are revealed all the truth. Sikhi is no different..the gurus came from the abode of god. Guru nanak dev ji continously stressed this point..he was infact ushering the words of god i.e god was speaking through him. He was but a tool to teach students wanting to seek the higher truth (without all the distractions in between, which other relegions focused on.) Guru gobind singh ji further empahsized this by saying (in bichittra natak) that he was a son of god..sent to this earth to continue and preach the relegion of guru nanak dev ji. That he was in gods abode when he was asked to finish this path..this direct route to akal purkh. Also, guru ji made it clear that, unlike other messengers of god, he didnt let maya allow his message to be distracted hence sikhi was the full truth. Infact a western philosipher has stated other faiths contain truth, but sikhism is the WHOLE truth. Hence sikhi overlaps with all faiths. The fact guru ji was born into a hindu family..or that he was from india..or that his best companions were muslims, is completely irrelevant. Guru nanak dev ji and his sucessors were something beyond us mortals..if we call them hindus..or muslims..or even sikhs..we are gravely mistaken. They came to bring us out of the darkness i.e GU-RU..hence they are the teachers..we are but the mere students. There are countless banis/shabads to reiterate this point im making..i suggest people read chopai sahib or dasam granth (for concise clarification) on this matter. To call sikhs hindus, or muslims, is an insult to the decades of work the gurus took to complete this message..and just illustrates how far from understanding sikhi we really are. Bul chak maf karna ji

NARSINGHA- MATE U DO KNOW THAT IN BANI BHAGAT KABIR JI CONDEMMED THAT PLANT U ARE PROPAGATING IN UR AVTAR SECTION. IM CONFUSED. WHATS THE DEAL??

iam totally inspired at sukhbir and other singhs level of intelligence here! waheguru! to the paaji above-i think the reason people want a reply on here is so we can all see whats going on i.e it is a forum and we all want to learn new things. thats all. i can see ur point.that hindu gods were used to inspire men.but was the a battle against mughals,or muslims?? iam from muslim descent. would hindu gods have inspired my ancestors?? why isnt there any glorification of prophet mohammed (pbuh) in dasam granth?? this would have inspired many muslim brothers also (infact,sikhi would have flourished even more to the masses!) if sikhi is a universal faith,then why do u need to be inspired by hindu gods in this day and age?? isnt bani enough i.e chandi di var?? and also,u speak of bhang,and its role in pain killing,etc. we live in the uk. theres medicine for that stuff now-and u dnt get nasha! besides,i doubt guru ji took any intoxicant,along with his warriors,to fight oppressors! that would defeat the whole purpose of KHALSA i.e purity. would it not? i cant imagine guru tegh bahader and his disciples takin drugs before being boiled alive,etc. im not flaming u paaji- im just interested to know why guru ji would all of a sudden glorify hindu gods (when in guru gobind singh ji says he doesnt see them/recognise them) and why intoxicants would be allowed. im just confused. so does that mean 1400 pages of bani prior to dasam granth are wrong? or needed altering? is there any possibilty it may have been altered? and who wrote dasam granth?? was it guru ji himself? or his warriors? p.s i want to learn shastar vidiyai. i beleieve the new class in london will be held in slough. right? if so,can i learn,without being a nihang sikh? fateh

as much as people annoy me,i try hard not to get angry. especially with my sikh brothers and sisters. so lets please not attack one another,just because we beleive different things. also,theres no use in asking eachother that we have respect,and be open minded,when -at the same time- we mock the other persons beleive (however indirect or harsh) lets just remember we are all gods children; we are all sikhs; we all wish to seek truth. this doesnt necessarily mean it will be in the same shape or form. lets have respect and tolerance. this isnt a fascist islamic website-there is no kaffur and beleiver- lets not fall into this trap. p.s thanx for the links-i shall look them up!

paaji,i dont want to sound rude,but ive got exams! ive been considering the rehit of nihangs very deeply, basic info like this will be extrememly helpful if u could provide it. thank u!

could the nihang paajis on this forum please provide me with quotes from bani which glorify or accept the use of a)bhang b)promote the killing of animals for meat c)give goats a higher level than gods other creatures thank U! and keep the peace please