sikh_fauge

This is an excellent topic..i agree with veera above..amrit is no doubt a beautiful thing..as i commented earlier, it is for the elite of men..(In my view)..the khalsa are the form of the guru..and the guru is the khalsa. However, since khalsa are few in number (as saints always say, infact gurbani states that there are few sikhs in this world) doesnt it then void amrit? since most of us will still be ignoring all of gurus message.. I agree we should take amrit..our guru did after all..but guru ji also said many things, as embodied in the guru granth sahib, and the sarbloh/dasam granth, but do we follow all these other things to the "t"? This is where im confused..amrit is no doubt a blessing..and something we should all strive to take..but from historical sources, it seems, the amrit ceremony (khande de pahul) was always reserved to those fit enough to take it..many sikhs were turned away. But at the same time, i feel if someone wants to seek shelter under the guru, and is willing to listen to his hukkam, then its his/her perogative..isnt it? Or does it become a ritual..i.e. dnt worry about 90% of gurbani..or dnt focus on ur virtues..infact dnt worry about naam or meditation..jst take amrit..u'll be fine (which is what some preachers say.) (im not arguing/debating, this is me just thinking out aloud, in the hope someone can clear my confusion!) Gurfateh

(im sorry if i sounded rude, i was writing someone an email!)..im honestly confused about amrit now..some people tell me its a requirement..others tell me its for warriors..others tell me its a passport to paradise..others tell me its this, its that,etc..and its confusing. i know people will say, then follow gurbani, but does gurbani actually talk about amrit (khande ke pahul, which is what we are all referring to i assume)?? because as far as im aware..it doesnt

What about someone whos scared to give their head to the guru (as did the panj pyarai) but who live as gurus sikhs (naam jap, vand shakna, kirt karna,etc along with virtueous qualities) on a daily basis..but dont necessarily have the warrior aspect..are they not sikhs veera? I find it hard to beleive there was no naam before amrit..

p.s notice how all of them are so good looking? lol

absolutely beautiful!

omg!!! hey ive got a germanish surname..might mean my ancestors were nazi! nayheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

and what im trying to point out, is that (with the support of numerous shabads by guru nanak dev ji) that it isnt so hard (for people with different levels of consciousness i guess) to take amrit and not care about the rehit or about how to live with purity on the inside..there was countless paths in india already which did that..focus so much on the outside, that the inside was ignored. dont u think,as sikhs, we should have a balance? if a person is working to be a better person; working to establish or strengthen his virtues; seeking shelter under the gurus guidance; following the MAIN principles of sikhi i.e. kirt karna, naam jaapna, vand shakna, but just because he hasnt taken amrit, he is then not a sikh?? again, this is where our understanding is different..to me, a khalsa (baptised sikh) is a warrior saint..its definitely something supernatural..but not the be all end all for spiritual growth to me amrit is a declaration..a passport if u will..and its most definitely something beautiful (which i cant describe since i havent had the pleasure of tasting it)..but i cant see how a persons love for the guru can be confined to an initiation ceremony..of course, it means ur giving ur head down for the guru..but how about those people who live each day for the guru? if i want to be initiated through charan pahul, where can i do it??

i guess we have different interpretations on what a khalsa sikh is. veera, did bhai mardhana partake in charan ke pahul? infact, all followers of the guru?? im not too sure, please clarify (with evidence/sources)

(i wasnt being sarcastic btw)

keep em coming! i learn so much from u guys sachi

i disagree..how can sikhs be confined to khalsa warriors? when u take amrit from khande de pahul u become a warrior..not a plastic warrior who carries a plastic knife..but a warrior (this is my personal view anyways) henceforth, anyone can be a sikh..someone hungry for the truth..spritually hungry,etc etc..therefore it cannot be confined to just amrit..how about all the virtues and teachings the gurus before guru gobind singh ji bestowed on their followers? as sukhi_v said, we should focus on our virtues..this analogy of amrit being enrolment to a school is quite popular, and is very catchy..but it comes to no avail when u join a school who u arent fit enough to join! in my eyes khalsa sikhs are the elite of mankind..hence why so many were turned away in the past (when they requested to be baptised) and i shall be but the dust of the feet of these kings among men, until i have reached a stage where i feel iam responsible enough to carry the nishan sahib of guru gobind singh ji

I agree alcohol is a nono, but excellent for use in the right circumstances. Same with cannabis. Infact with everthing in my eyes. Its just a matter of practicality, common sense, and intention.

excellent post veera! i think the key is that everyones relationship with guru and waheguru is their own..its no ones business. apart from hukam that we should remember gods name,share with others, and work honestly, i dnt sikh means much more.. all the amrit stuff is for a khalsa sikh..as far as im aware anyways

yes please ellaborate pheena!

thanks admin!

VERY informative! thanks alot brother. much appreciated

gurfateh, i need to make a website because i need to promote my work. i have the contents ready, but how do i go about making a website?? whats the steps i need to take? as far as i know, i need to a)find a host (which one is recommended??) b)find a web designer or make a crappy one maself (anyone want to earn some cash n do it for me? ) c)put my contents in urmmm..i think thats about it!!

I havent come across any gurbani in adi granth which supports growing hair..infact guru nanak dev ji (several occasions) talks about how useless relegious garms are/relegious symbols. Also there is a shabad where baba sheikh farid talks about his pagri, in says along the lines of, "why worry about dust being on ur turban when your head will turn to dust one day". I agree with akalbir that the previous nanaks didnt make the issue of kesh taboo..it was only guru gobind singh ji who made this obligatory. Well this is what i beleive

I agree with this totally! (but its best to love )

From my understanfing, drawof is referring to traditions, and whether following them (of course, certain practises) are valid/applicable to this day and age, and if they fit into todays society; i.e. do we change our traditions to suit today..or do these traditions have to be maintained, at all costs..urmmm..at least i think this is what u mean Im curious about this too..

Lalleshvari..killer post man..made me cry Totally agree with you 100% Gurfateh

cheers bro!

Aside from your private messages to one another; i have to agree with neo. Im far from narrow minded, maybe its just ignorance..but some practises are just traditions which i beleive, personally, are taken out of context. They might have applied to singhs back in the day, but i dont see how it serves a purpose today. But then again, it is tradition i guess. At the end of the day, i think we should all focus on love..and loving god..everything else is just a bad habit drawing us back in maya. Doesnt make us a bad person..just hinders spiritual progression. But to an extent, we are all guilty, so pointing fingers to certain groups,etc is pointless, because "mainstream" sikhs have got alot of short comings too.

lol@ beast. thats the problem tho singh, people live in this fantasy world..they dnt realise when singhs KILLED human beings, they tore their limbs, cut their necks, watched their insides come rushing out like juice in an orange,etc etc..it was pretty gruesome stuff..war isnt a game..people need to understand this..so alcohol, meat, sukha,etc are all permissible in this situations..that goes without saying. thats doesnt mean im sayin its kool on a day to day basis, but people like me want to respect and maintain a tradition, then wheres the harm? no point crying over bambi, when theres human beings suffering at our own doorsteps.

Gurfateh, i totally agree with you sukhi..your absolutely right. I think the author was trying to point out, however, that these days we focus on how the gurudwara looks..and nothing much more than that. I would rather have maharaj sitting with me in the back of an alley..but with beautiful souls, who have nothing but love..nothing but devotion..oozing in warmth and kindness..than have maharaj in a beautiful gurudwara..which, in regards to sangat, is anything but beautiful. More importantly, its the people i.e. the "gyanis" and "sevadaars" who disrespect our guru..i see this all the time..and it upsets me. ALOT. Most the points raised by kanwar i totally agree with. Its just a matter of getting power..taking over. Lallesvari is right..its all about vidiya..knowledge..whatever u wanna call it..then using this both inside and outside of the community.