Morpheous

Kawal brother, here's some links for you http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...sri+akaal+thakt http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...sri+akaal+thakt http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...sri+akaal+thakt If you want to dicuss further, i think you should open a fresh thread as i think me and you have gone off on a tangent(ie, the original name of the thread concerned Maharaj Ji wearing a hat) From you above posts i would you think about; 1. Has the institution been the same since the 6th Guru - what is 'same'? 2. Who is the current Jathedar of the Sikhs? 3. Read above threads they might broaden your horizons. Gurfateh Harpreet

The order given from Akal Tahkt in Guru Ji's time NOT the same INSTITUTION as the SGPC. Just because the location is the same, does not mean the institution is the same. In relation you perception of 'deep', i wonder what people did prior to the SGPC Sikh Rehit Maryada to contemplate the 'deeper' meanings of Sikhi? Gurfateh Harpreet PS Sikh_fauge - point taken, apologies to forum, sorry.

Singh, you say 'try to understand the depth and logic of sikhism' Rather ambigious, what exactly do you mean ? 1. Understanding - through learning the languages and deep contemplation 2. Understanding thorugh historical sources - from which you can analyse the actions of Sikhs(which Kawal, can help you improve your sikhi - hence one of the reasons why we has stories with morals). 3. Understanding through bhagkti ? 4. Understanding through living, making mistakes and learning? What type of 'deep' understanding are you referring to? If your referring to SGPC type understanding - then im afraid the term 'deep' is somewhat used in a loose sense, the institution has come around only recently( ie it was not around at the times of the Human Gurus), if you want to understand the depth of sikhi then you may want to look at the orders which were institutionalised by Guru Gobind Singh ji, please read the threads in the Sikh Samparadaya section. Gurfateh Harpreet

I think it means intentionally damaging the reputation of x. Sort of like the legal definition of 'defamation'? im probably way out! Gurfateh Harpreet

its all about raag kirtan

what is panch(5) pardhaan ? in Japji Sahib ?

Does a Sikh need to keep hair ? I think you should really ask yourself; Do you need your hair to learn about spirituality ? Secondly, Jaidev(A bhagat to whose Bani you bow to) had a bhodi. Gurfateh Harpreet PS. before the flood of criticism, im not stating that hair is unimportant. Please read comments carefully.

What are the importance of the following numbers in Sikhi 1 3 5 10 11 ?

A wise man once told me that naam Simran is occuring within us alll the time, the common definition given for naam simran is remeberance. What was explained to me that simran is along the lines of 'thirst and inspiration'. Romeo was always doing simran of Juliet He had a thirst for her! He wasnt actively telling himself to think of her, it was inspired from within. He wasnt sitting and forcing himself to remember Juliet, infact it was the other way around, he couldnt get her out of his mind! Your atma is continuing to do simran of the existance all the time, the key is to link your mind to your atma, then your mind will be doing simran 24/7, the same way Romeo was doing simran of Juliet. It is not done, it is being done - it isalreadly happening - No force, No words. You(the reality) are already immortal, you just havnt realised it. You are already deathless! When you realise this your sorted! Think about it ! Get a picture of when you where a child, and then look in the mirror. They are two bodies, different in shape and size - they are always changing Your mind, again is always changing(ie your mind in that picture is different to your mind now). Your mind and body are always changing (the atoms are made, destroyed and so on). However in saying this alone it would seem that the person in the picture and mirror - are 2 different people, because they have a different mind and a different body. How silly does that sound ? There must be something linking the Two different bodys and minds - because otherwise your just an object which has had 7 different bodies and 7everal different personalities! what is it that links all this together ......your atma! So in reality you are the atma! Time is the distance between 2 changes. Your mind is changing, your body is changing but your atma remains the same! Hence your atma is beyond change - therefore TIMELESS. You(atma) are timeless! Aaad sach, jugaad sach, Nanaak hosee bhi sach. Gurfateh Harpreet Ps its really hard to explain in words, so much easier with diagrams and graphs ! apologies if it is not very comprehendable !

Hmmm Har-e Har-e nit karahi raasna kahoo kachu nah jaanai, Chit jin kar hir la-i-aa ma-i-aa bolan pa-ay ravaanee Anand Sahib

Gurfateh people, is Sant Ji Shaheed or not ? Gurfateh Harpreet Ps. Admin, i searched the site, there soo much on Sant Ji, you got any links regarding his 'shaheedi'.

Gurfateh Here's something i found - very interesting article - by .......you guessed MS Cheema Symbolism of the Kara A symbol is an object which signifies another object, an idea or a sign, usually representing something abstract. Symbolism in human life is analogous to the presence of air in the atmosphere. The atmosphere will not only be useless but meaningless to us in the absence of air. Life cannot be sustained without air, yet ordinary people seldom realise or appreciate the importance of air and attach little value to it. Similarly, symbolism, though an integral part of human life, is seldom appreciated by many of us. All cultures and human behaviour are thoroughly charged and fully replete with symbolism. Society is peculiarly subject to the influence of symbolism in the fields which are emotionally charged, such as politics(flag colours, etc.) and religion (crosses, domes, etc.) The etiquette of a society, bowing to superiors or saluting, etc., are nothing but symbolism. A child, prior to learning some phonetic symbols, communicates by signs. It puts forward its arms so as to invite somebody to pick it up. The psychologist confirm that phonetic symbols, (the languages), are symbols of human behaviour. The different shades of meaning attached to a word further exhibit symbolism, e.g. light is a symbol for knowledge, wisdom or truth while darkness is a symbol for death and mourning, and white is a symbol for purity and virginity, etc. The commercial world exploits symbolism very deliberately. In England a barber has a red and white pole, a pawnbroker has three golden balls outside his shop. Look at your watch, it is a certain and accordingly the company has put some symbols on it. Likewise various firms put different symbols on their products. How these symbols make us buy their goods can be explained only be expert psychologists. Certain symbols, for example, phonetic symbols (languages), are meaningful to almost everybody and thus useful to them. However some symbols such as religious symbols, are not intelligible to most of us, but are meaningful and useful only to the experts. A single word often carries wider and deeper meanings (by symbolism) than the simple word itself. For example, the words Negro, European, Indian, etc., are intelligible to everybody, but Homo Sapient is intelligible to some only. To those few, it is more meaningful than each of the simple words, as it represents not only all of them, but more than that. Similarly, religious symbols are not only difficult to understand, but they have an extremely wide and deep connotation and hence they are enormously useful in the religious life. As the use of symbols contributes to the success of commercial products, similarly religious symbols contribute to the progress of religion. To and ordinary Christian, a cross is a reminder of Jesus and his crucifixion but historian would say that the symbol of the cross has appeared in various cultures from time immemorial and it has undergone many changes and adaptations. It never disappeared completely, as it was meaningful and useful to the spiritual aspect of human life. A double-edged axe symbol was used by the prehistoric Egyptians as a sign of power and divinity. Later on, this symbol underwent a lot of changes, and finally appeared again in the Sikh religion in the form of the Khanda ( a double-edged sword) and, curiously enough, it represented the same thing Power and Divinity. Historians further confirm that wisdom is revealed to wise people through symbols, Art, literature, poetry, religion, etc., which deal with the unconscious, are full of symbolism. One of the latest approaches to the study of the unconscious mind is through symbols. Religious faith is deeply tooted in the unconscious, and the unconscious is accessible only through very complex symbols. Hence symbolism is inseparably linked with religion. The Sikh Bangle It was customary in India (and still is) for the sister to put a "Rakhi"* on the wrist of her brother signifying her affection and her dependence on her brother in times of danger. *Rakhi, a multi-coloured and richly decorated woollen flower, which is tied round the wrist of a brother by the sister. Usually brothers reciprocate this gesture by pledging not only physical protection to their sisters in the times of danger but also monetary gifts. The festival falls in August every year. The brother would prepared to sacrifice his own life and to save the honour of the country and that of his sister from invaders and tyrants. The ceremony usually took place at the time of the brother's departure for adventure or for a campaign. This implied that the females were weaker than the males and that they had to be protected by the males. When Guru Gobind Singh baptised his Sikhs (1699) he discontinued this practice among Sikhs (male or female) to wear a steel bangle (Kara) instead of a 'woollen Rakhi.' The idea was that all males and females are not only equal but also strong enough to defend themselves. All the Guru's followers, irrespective of sex, were trained to fight in self-defence and to help the oppressed. Thus this steel bangle, unlike the woollen Rakhi, became the symbol of freedom and equality of the sexes, and the Sikh women no only derived courage, but also shared the national struggle with their brothers. The Guru's idea of making his female followers brave, fearless and courageous was demonstrated by several Sikh women. Mai Bhago, Dharam Kaur and Sahib Kaur were some of those, who not only fought shoulder to shoulder with their brothers, but also commanded the Sikh platoons. The Kara thus led to a great awakening in Society and boosted the morale o f Sikh men and especially women, who no longer remained weak (Abla) but became as brave as lions (Singh). Leaving aside the historical background of the bangle, let us now consider the philosophical and psychological interpretation of this symbol. It is circular in shape. The circle is one of the most important and oldest of symbols. It is known as 'Mandala,' a word borrowed from Sanskrit. The psychologists consider the Mandala to be one of the most important Arch-types which shape our conscious and unconscious behaviour. Philosophically it is highly significant. It is a symbol of strength and integrity, a symbol of obedience, equality, oneness, universality and eternity. Structural engineers know that the round shape is the best shape for strength, as it distributes a blow of strain. They increase the strength of the weak part by corrugating it. The roundness of the skull shows nature's ingenuity in protecting our brain, the most important organ of our body. A round object, if it is weak, cannot keep its roundness when subjected to strain. For example, the wheels of a car remain round to the degree to which they are strong and inflated. Any wheel weaker or short of air will lose its roundness. As long as it is round it continues to bear the strain and pressure. No wonder most of the Sikhs when subjected to torture and coercion maintained their integrity of character. Bhai Taru Singh happily preferred the removal of his skull to the removal of his Keshas (hair), Bhai Mani Singh happily bore the torture of being but to pieces joint by joint. Baba Banda Bahader's flesh was pulled off from his living body with hot pincers but he did not renounce his faith. In mathematics the round symbol is called Zero (0) which is again significant. Divide a number by zero: (X/0=infinity) and it becomes infinity. That is, the Mandala can raise a small quantity to infinity. In the above example, the value of X, whether it is big or small, is immaterial as long as it is being raised by the 'Mandala'. Thus the wearer of the steel bangle should never worry whether he is great or small, what he should be careful of is that he should be supported by the attributes of the 'Mandala', his zeroness, and his humble nature. This attribute is further illustrated by the mathematical fact X^0=1. When the power of a number is regarded as zero (0) it becomes one. That is, when a Sikh combs his hair in the morning and in the evening, he raises his right arm above his head and the bangle goes about his head. His power is symbolically raised to zero (0), or in common words, he says, "O Almighty God, Wonderful Lord (Wahe Guru) you are omnipotent, I am nothing, I am puny, I am zero, and his value become one. Who is only one? Who has no rival? None but God!" So, he loses himself or his ego and thus enjoys the elixir of 'Name,' and becomes one with God- a way to unite him with God. Once again the tying of a turban round the head symbolise the same effect. The bangle is called 'Kara' and another associated word is 'Kari,' which means link, so it is a symbolic way of linking with God. 'Kara' also means strict and the associated word 'Kari' also means handcuff (Hath Kari). Looked at from this angle, the bangle on the right hand shows one's discipline. That is, one is not free to do anything one likes, but one has to remain under some wholesome restrictions. Like a true Christian one says, "Under wholesome restrictions I find perfect freedom." This sounds a bit paradoxical, but so is most wisdom paradoxical. It is steering between two dangers that is why the master sprinkled the elixir (Amrit) into the eyes of his followers, so that the Khalsa (True Followers) are enabled to receive the divine vision. A person is free to the degree to which he is responsible. An irresponsible person would find himself in trouble sooner or later. He cannot remain free and escape the law of a responsible society. For example, a careful and responsible driver who obeys the set rules driver, who does not obey rules or who does not know the rules, or who is a learner, is always under a strain and cannot drive freely. In Islam 'Musalman' means a person who submits himself to the will of God. Thus the bangle on the right wrist of a Sikh enables him to have the good qualities of a true Christian, a holy Muslim and a pure Sikh (Khalsa) merged into one. What a wonderful gift from our unfathomable Master, Guru Gobind Singh! Some of the Sikhs give a wrong meaning to the Verse "SATGUR SIKH KE BANDHAN KATE" (The master frees his disciple from restrictions) and hold that we should not have any restrictions. The master does it, he makes his follower free from bondage but by making him responsible. They forget the Verse "BANDE SO JO PAWE VICH BANDI" (True Humans are those who accept discipline). Thus to free us from bonds or temptations, we must accept responsibilities or wholesome restrictions. Thus, the bangle demands that the wearer should surrender unconditionally to the Almighty. Even in the highway code, the triangles warn, rectangles inform but circles command. Thus the master demands from us responsibilities. Let us discuss another property of the circle. That is the constancy of it radius which is the distance of any point on the circumference from the centre. It reminds us of the equality of mankind and speaks against any kind of discrimination, of colour, creed, caste, class or religion etc. A true Sikh wearing a bangle will keep in his mind that all human beings are equal inn God's court, as they are all children of God. It enables him to transcend all the divisions which separate man from man and makes hatred, jealousy and prejudice, etc., or in other words, it blesses him with unbiased and scientific outlook. My dear wearer of the bangle! Remember all people are at an equal distance from God wherever the stand in the world. Our master would never bless a person who generates hatred on the basis of caste, colour creed, nationality or any other distinction. "The father is one and we are all children of one father." (EK PITA EKAS KE HAM BARAK.) Furthermore, the circumference of a circle shows its continuity as it has no starting or ending point. The never-ending natural processes work in a cycle of carbondioxide and oxygen, the water cycle, the nitrogen cycle, etc. Thus it brings the wearer of the bangle into contact with Eternity and it reminds him of the infinity of his master. It gives him boundless self-confidence. The collar around a dog's neck reminds the public that he belongs to somebody who is responsible for him. They dare not maltreat him, particularly if the master is strong and is likely to remain strong in the future. What about the dog whose master is infinite, omnipotent and unfathomable? A person who wears Guru Gobind Singh's collar is really great because his master is great. The `Mandala' (The Circle) appears on the Olympic flag as well, representing the unity of mankind and that of the five continents. Olympic Games themselves represent sportsmanship and struggle for its own sake. The Olympic Motto is `Participation is more important than winning. The bangle reminds a Sikh that 'struggle' is the meaning of Life victory or defeat is in the hands of God.' It reminds a Sikh of whit Guru Nanak said, `He is the doer of everything, man is powerless (KARE KARAI APE AP, MANAS KE KICHH NAHI HATH.) The wearer of a bangle is constantly reminded of this philosophy. How happy is the person who leaves the fruit of his labor in God's hands! He would never grumble. Let us consider everyday life in the machine age. If we eliminate the wheels from machines, the whole edifice of modern civilisation would tumble down like a house of cards. In other words. The progress of man depends upon this circle. No wonder that some people attribute the meaning of progress to the 'Mandala.' Even the Indian National flag displays the same symbol (Ashoka-chakra) on it, hoping that the prosperity of the nation will be perpetual. How great is Guru Gobind Singh who has placed the symbol of prosperity into the hands of the Sikhs! No wonder the Sikhs are the most enterprising community in India and perhaps abroad. Forming only 1.2 percent of India's population their services in industry, contribution they make is larger than their numbers warrant. They have a marvellously inspiring history. The Mandala in the Realm of Religion Specialists in comparative religion, psychology, literature, art and anthropology confirm that the mandala symbol has been very persistent in the history of religion. In ancient China, for instance the symbol represented one supreme power, the Great Architect of the universe. The celestial world and heaven were represented by the Egyptians and by the Maya by round symbols. In Rome, the Romans used domes as a symbol of imperial power and divinity. In the church of Holy Wisdom (Hagia Sophia) in Constantinpole, the dome symbolises the Glory of God (Encyclopedia Britannica). If you study the symbol of the Christian (Cross) it has appeared in various forms and psychologists regard it as a for of Mandala. In Islam, domes and arches exhibit the symbolism of Mandala. Hindu religion is full of Mandala, e.g. Swastika is a form of Mandala. The snake around Shiva's neck is also symbolic of a Mandala. From the study of various religions and their symbolism one is thoroughly convinced about the spiritual significance of the ring. Naturally, any religion in the absence of divinity cannot claim to be perfect. Thus, the bangle constantly reminds the wearer of the Supreme Divine Power. Hence Guru Gobind Singh, the bestower of the bangle, has exalted the Sikhs by giving them this marvellous symbol which humanity as a whole may aspire to wear. END Oh well, if anyoe ever asks you why you where a kara....... you should have alot more answers now!

The next question is WHY THE HELL SHOULD HE. (if is a he or she, or anything with ears)

Chill out Orchids man, leave the judging to rab. Gurfateh Harpreet

Arsenal are the most sikh team in the league They could have one the treble But they though no, Vand ke Chaakhau Gurfateh he he

:yo:

Mr L! what ever happened to accessiblity to Gurbani ? You need all these languages to interpret the message of the Guru ? I thought the 1 reason for the SGGS was to free us from pundits! no we have to ask Scholars of 6 languages for Gurbani interpretations? Although a justification could be that over the years we have gotten more ignorant and very lazy, hence 6-7 languages was a norm for Guru Ji's time? Are say that many years ago the taksaals were a lot more knowledgeable? If so, we as a 'panth' have really messed things up! Mr L ? Harpreet

Good Afternoon When there is you, there is no he. When you die(ego), all is he, then you may experience Ik onkar. Does 'god' need you to worship 'him' Ms Hayes ? Harpreet

First Mr S i would like to apologise if i have come across as a 'nit picker'! :wink: In relation to kalyug matter, the reason for the point i made before was due to the fact that alot of people on this forum do believe it is kalyug, i just wanted to see what you thought of it all. From the above post i understand from your point of view that; Kalyug begins, when NOBODY knows the true essence of the teachings. okie ? :thumbsup: :down: ? I would also like to thank for your prompt reply, i must say your previous post was very intriuging, please could you tell us more about the 'breath', its importance, and how we can use it to help us link to our 'reality'. Please add more Mr S, this is very fascinating !..... Can you tell us about love and its role(in life)? I really do believe that from what you have posted above that you do have a good grasp for the essence of sikhism already - please note, i do emphasize that this is my opinion, others may not agree. I would now like invite you to tell me the Essence of Bhuddism(from what you have perceived)........take as long as you want Sukinderpal...... For others in this forum, the reason why we must seek knowledge of this kind is because it can be very useful for us if used correctly. Nowadays it is common practice for many Sikhs to 'tolerate' all other forms of religion(if you want to call it that), but deep inside they feel that theirs is the best! What im trying to say is that Gyan is Gyan, Gyan from the Nectar(which is inside of every person) is beautiful regardless of if a Sikh,Muslim, Christians, etc.... AMRIT IS AMRIT, we have a habit of drinking Amrit from 'our own cups' exclusively. Imagine this, there are 3 glasses of Water(respresenting Amrit) on the table, normally, a Sikh will only drink out of a Sikh glass(Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj), the Muslim doesn't want anything to do with the SIkh glass, he has his own glass(Prophet Mohammed(PBUH))! Similary, the Christian does'nt want anything to do with the the other to glasses, because his glass has got Jesus written on it ! :bling: The true fact of the matter is that when you tip the glasses over the waters are the same and they merge together. So to conclude the water is the same, dont be afraid to drink out of the others glass. :yo: Looking for to your replys Mr S Gurfateh Harpreet

ignore the first post i pressed submit by accident, it is incomplete, also the last line of the above post, sorry Admin i keep clicking on the wrong buttons.

Ive read your above posts in respect to the last paragraph i fail to see the how our views differ, all i did was show you the link between Dhyan and Zen?! Also in regards to kalyug, i dont understand what your trying to say, you say we are on te end of a good era because there are still people who can interpret the meanings correctly.... well yes i agree you then go on to say that..... Kalyug is ...when....'People will then start to prefer the words of poets, and philosophers and sweet sounding words of the many gurus and sants and leaders of this cult or that.' are you suggesting that people havnt STARTED doing that already ? yes they have.......! Explain please i would love to learn about more about this Doesnt this fit in with the story about the spiritual personal walking into the jewellery shop ? Also i need you to explain this but then you say yes or no to duality? :roll: Mr S, you seem to say stuff like then you say I get the feeling you do not want to debate but just preach, if you want to do that then i am very interested in your sermons! To be honest i do't want tp debate on your level, im too thick and do not have wisdom from Gurbani to share with you on a deeper level, from what little i do know, it seems as; Buddha and Nanak got their Amrit from the same pool. please answer the above questions, i will be grateful! Gurfateh 'never born, never died' H I think the 'Essence of Sikhism' topic sh

Hmm, well i would like to suggest that you read the Paradox of Evil, by MS Cheema, heres the link, it takes not time to download! http://www.sikhifm.com/sikhismevil.htm This should give you some more information karma, free will, choice etc No. Welcome to kalyug my friend! :roll: You might want to read osho's discourse on the jap ji sahib; http://www.oshoworld.com/onlinebooks/BookX...e%20vol%201.txt its a very nice read ! Hence why Guru Ji precribes the us meditation on breath, Jap Ji Sahib, 'Dihan Karo bibhut' - actually there are 3 different meditation techniques f you read the line carefully, Dhyian itself is beutiful, Dhyan = Chen = Zen Gurfateh Harpreet

Well Guru maharaj ji does say that the path is 'Kaneo tikkhi valo nikki', 'sharper than a sword and fine than a hair'....... Maya(anything that distracts us from our REALITY) is infested in our minds, if you want clear instructions how to overcome hardships and have something clearly laid out fo you then i would say; Learn Gurmuki asap! And go to the source, Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. The Essence of Sikhism? go to the root - the 'mool'; Mool Mantra is a good place to start - mp3 format please download as listen, tell me what you think. http://socs.qmsu.org/sikh/audio/cheemaUncl...heemaUncle).mp3 Please post any issues you want to debate Sir, im sure they will reply in thier masses !

Law exams (2nd year!)- oh deary! :yo: Balle Balle !