Jungee

Guys...chase dynamic banda...he's got the full video, i'm sure he wouldnt mind uploading it. also he has another video, i think its pre 1984, namadhari smagam in delhi (i think), very beautiful. brings tears to my eyes everytime i see the elderly babe show there form of love to Rab, its very touching. but mind you, the video is almost 2 hours long...so it may be a couple of gigs to download....

ne0 answers to your questions... 1. No 2.No ...they spoke in a very hostile and rude way 3. some of the mob sparked it off. also like sAdmin says...let the Uk Authority handle this, they have confiscated all the videos on the premises, so i am unable to get a copy. i wasnt in the building when it happened, but my 8 year old cousin sister was, my puaji and bibi were. this is only the beginning, but many people are gonna get charged as the mayor and local labour mp were there, who also got injured. for the local police this is a top priorty case, as they are also linking some of the attackers to terror organisations. nuff said. i am not gonna post on this any more.... let the mob justify there cowardly actions , and let the so called self appointed khalsa/sangat/ panth pump them up...until they kill someone or till they get sorted kautliya style!!!

Contrary to what is being said on the web forums.....Majority of the accounts are lies being spread by the so called 'Khalsa' of panthic weekly/ Coventry. This incident didn’t happen in the gurudwara, but in the community centre room which has been given to the local elders to use. The elders weren’t pissed!!!! and they never initiated the attack. If your a Punjabi from the older generation, and you see youngsters talking to you in a hostile and rude way, your not gonna just sit quietly and not say nothing. From what the unbiased statements that have been given to the police, have said is that small children were in the room too, plus some auntis. ( you can just imagine the terror they must have felt when they saw these cowards attack them) From what I have been informed by the CID Branch in Warwick, 1 person has been arrested and charged, plus had his house raided where they found some illigal items ( i haven’t been told what), plus 5 are at present in custody waiting to be charged. Now the reality is that at present the so called Khalsa youth who are being brainwashed by some thugs have attacked a group of elderly people, put several of them in hospital, including 3 in surgery for serious injuries. If any of them dies, who is to blame… Whatever the so called peaceful protest was about, the out come has come out in a very negative way, making the youth who supposedly are religious look like a bunch of KALIBAN cowards. All this incident has done is destroy any ekta that there was and tarnished the Sikh image more. where did all the integrity and honour that they all keep talking about go, i thought violence was always the last resort, not the first. And please don’t cheapen our Sikh history by comparing these bozos to the warriors of past. I am sure they wouldn’t attack a group of elders, especially as a mob!! I hope those lambs dressed in lions clothing get there just rewards and may there family members be ashamed of there behavior. I will do ardas that they all get punished for there crimes plus may they grow a brain as they get older or sikhi will be destroyed in a generation of two. At present I am ashamed to consider my self a Sikh of the sangat. My Guru would never encourage this. Everybody is complaining about the committees, but I think that the so called Sikh organisations and jatha out there are equally to blame as they too are being misled and being misinformed by hypocrites who don’t practice what they preach.

Just been informed by a colleague of mine in the west midlands police that a group of youths attacked a group of elderly men who were in the community centre of the local Gurudwara in Lemington Spa. Everything got caught on security Cameras and CCTV, and most of the attackers have been identified. There reason for attacking is unknown, but it has been suggested it may have had to do with the diwali celebrations that the Gurudwara was having. Now my main concern is besides the gurudwara being desecrated, most of the elderly men who were in the 70’s and 80’s got rushed to hospital, for very serious injuries. These attackers did wear turbans, did have beards and some also wore blue banea, they were armed and also yelling in a very hostile, and threatening manner. Many aged between 18 to 30 I cant put all details on this forum write now, but just wanted to make the cyber sikh community aware of these so called Sikhs who represent certain Sikh organisations here in the UK.( Boss, Akj, Taksaal, Nihangs), who preach one thing, but there actions portray another message. Most of you will know who they are. Just don’t be surprised when this incident appears on the news stating ‘Fanatical/ Confused Sikhs’ …… Please can these attackers be named and shamed..... I'll start with a certain person called Ubi Singh from coventry, in his 40's who socialises with teenagers and creates a lot of hatred/confusion amongest them,who always incites violence, towards holy places, women children and elderly in the name of Sikhi!!!!

There a complete ripoff of a bowie knife...but a cheaper version. if your thinking of buying knifes like that, i would recommend a gutting or bear knife. very practical, safe to use, keep, maintain, et al. dont just buy it cause it looks good. Try to learn how to use, other wise whats the point of wearing it, other than for a ritualistic purpose. ( peeps should consider learning shastervidya, pak serak, or sayoc for practical close quarter and projectile training....it always comes in handy when you go fishing, or when your gutting a rabbit, chicken or lamb... :twisted: .) just my two sense...

Ecocide of Panjab The Sikh Community and Youth Service (SCYS) has organised a lecture about the on-going environmental destruction occuring in Panjab. ECOCIDE of PANJAB Awareness Raising Seminar Saturday 15th October 2005 - 2.00pm SCYS UK, 348 Soho Road, Handsworth, Birmingham B21 9QL (Free parking available opposite SCYS UK in Kwik Save Car Park) You are invited to attend a special awareness raising seminar with presentations by guest speakers followed by question and answer sessions. This is being hosted jointly by the SCYS UK (Sikh Community & Youth Service UK) and DEEP (Defenders of the Environment and Ecology of Panjab) and will be attended by several Environmental campaign groups including Green Party, Green Peace, Friends of the Earth and Punjabi Sath. The aim of the seminar is to highlight the loss of biodiversity and destruction of the natural ecosystems in Panjab. This is as a result of industrial agricultural practices such as the use of chemicals, fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides. The current water crisis is also having a severe impact on the natural environment, biodiversity, ecology, aquatic ecosystems, river habitats and wetlands of Panjab. The main purpose of this seminar is to increase support from all communities to raise these issues in forums and networks in the interest of the protection of the land and waters of Panjab. We would be grateful if you could inform us if you will be attending so that adequate catering arrangements can be made. For future bookings on lectures relating to Panjab’s environmental issues please contact Pardeep Singh Rai (Environmental Lecturer) Tel: 0793 200 4815 Email : panjabdeep@yahoo.co.uk DEEP - Defenders of the Environment and Ecology of Panjab Coordinator of the Environment Advisory Group of the Panjabis in Britain All Party Parliamentary Group ::Panjab's Water Dispute:: The Energy Research Institute, a New Delhi think tank, says that already in an agriculture-based state such as Panjaab in the north, 98 percent of ground water has been exploited. The Forum for Bio-Technology and Food Security adds that if the trend continues, the once fertile Panjaab- once known as the country's granary - will turn into a desert. FORCING A DESERT UPON THE LAND OF FIVE RIVERS International environment agencies have cautioned that Panjaab , the land of the five years, could become a desert by 2025. The water table in Panjaab is at 30 meters deep and even 80 meters in some areas; each year it loses over a metre. Panjaab 's economy is largely dependent on Agriculture. It has been the bread basket of India . In the 1960's it solved the nation's long suffering food shortage problem by achieving the highest yields per acre of wheat production. However current forecasts paint a dismal picture of impending desertification. The Panjaab State has not been allowed to diversify its economy to non agricultural alternatives. Whilst the Indian nation's dependency on Panjaab may be overcome by diverting agriculture demands to other states, the Panjaabi farmer is becoming destitute and poor. The Panjaab State could go into irreversible decline. WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? Panjaab lacks autonomous decision making, the state is subject to Indian Government's policies which also determine investment strategies. While this relationship may be acceptable as any other relation between a state within a union nation, serious concerns arise as to why Panjaab has been the subject of neglect and indeed deliberate policies to erode its economic status. The facts speak for themselves - 1. The Panjaab State was forced to rely on agriculture. 2. The State has harnessed about 98% of its agriculture potential; 95% of which is dependent on irrigation - 60% of this is from groundwater, i.e. water pumped from ground. 3. Panjaab was not allowed to invest in alternate industries to reduce pressure on its agriculture, and thereby create jobs for new graduates. 4. Panjaab farmers have been forced to grow rice due to the small margins imposed by the central government on other crops. Rice demands considerably large amounts of water, almost all of which is pumped from the ground; hence increasing the depletion of the water table. 5. Unlike western countries where farmers are subsidized to rotate cropping, the central government has prohibited such subsidies. This has forced farmers to use every inch of their land to its fullest capacity, resulting in water and mineral depletion. 6. The central government has forced diversion of Panjaab 's river waters to other states. REMEDIES 1. Let Panjaab decide on subsidies or crops consuming less water. 2. Better water management. Let the Panjaab State have a say in its economy 3. Let Panjaab diversify its economy 4. Subsidies to farmers to keep land free of cropping. However it is unlikely that the Indian government will take any of these steps , unless International pressure is imposed through organisations like the UN. The environmental and water crisis in the Panjab Several decades of Green Revolution agriculture - the intensive use of water and chemical pesticides and fertilisers on hybrid crops to increase crop yields - has degraded much of the land and water in north-western India , making it difficult for people to live there. Pardeep Singh Rai Panjaab, the famous land of five rivers, is a semi-arid landlocked region in the north-western part of South Asia . The very existence of this vulnerable region depends on the waters of the five rivers, all tributaries of the Indus River . This highly productive region is known as the breadbasket of both India and Pakistan , and it was here that the Green Revolution was considered a success. But various practices have led to the environmental degradation of the Panjaab. Industrial agriculture, involving the excessive use of pesticides and fertilizers and intensive irrigation, was implemented in the region through pressure from the government and multinationals. The planting of rice, a non-traditional crop in this semi-arid region that requires intensive irrigation, is causing an environmental crisis. The International Rice Research Institute has questioned to what extent rice cultivation should be permitted in the Panjaab. Price ceilings on agricultural produce and restrictions on its export imposed by the government on Panjaabi farmers have prevented them from planting other crops that use less water. Despite the intensive irrigation, river water is diverted to less productive regions in Haryana and Rajasthan, leaving the Indian Panjaab with only about one-quarter of the water from its rivers. This diversion means that the Panjaab does have the water it needs for irrigation. Panjaabi farmers have had to dig tube wells to extract groundwater and have done so beyond sustainable levels. The construction of dams on the Panjaabi rivers has served the elite only and has altered both the volume and the course of the rivers. Many are now dry sand beds, especially the smaller streams. As a result of all these practices, in just four decades, the Panjaab is extensively degraded. Groundwater depletion Groundwater has been pumped out at a much faster rate than it has been replenished. As a result, farmers have deepened their tube wells, and the entire irrigation process has become much more expensive. In future, village wells might dry up as they depend on the same aquifer. This would cause immense hardship to rural people who have little or no piped water supply. The annual State of the World Report produced by the World Resources Institute in Washington , DC , estimates that the gap between water usage and the aquifer's sustainable yield is so high that the aquifer under the Panjaab could be depleted by the year 2025. Degradation of watersheds Deforestation along the banks of the rivers is also having a dramatic impact on the aquifers under the Panjaab. Because of less rainfall because so many trees have been cut down, they are not being recharged. In addition, because of the accompanying soil erosion, about 60% of rainwater is lost due to runoff. Water pollution Aquifers become polluted when they are recharged with irrigation water contaminated with agricultural chemicals and fertilisers. During the monsoon, heavy loads of silt, along with large quantities of dissolved salts, nutrients, organic material and bacterial contaminants, are washed off the land into the aquifers. Water logging Due to increased mechanisation and inadequate drainage, seepage from unlined canals and over-watering of fields have raised the underlying water table. This has led to increased health (especially malaria) and environmental problems. Salinisation In the drier climate of the Panjaab, water evaporation near the soil surface leads to a steady accumulation of salts in the land that eventually results in kalar (soil affected by salt) and reduced crop yields. An estimated 21% of irrigated agricultural lands in the Panjaab are affected. Loss of aquatic habitats Streams and ponds are now running dry, affecting aquatic and wetland habitats and resulting in reduced biodiversity. Desertification The land has been intensively cultivated at the expense of grazing and traditional long fallow periods. Few conservation measures have been followed. In this semi-arid region, moreover, wind erosion is also a serious threat to water balances. Global warming The Himalayan glaciers that feed Panjaab's five rivers have been receding faster than in any other part of the world. In addition, changes to the monsoons are likely to reduce the water sources of the Indus River system and directly affect the people of Panjaab. The very survival of the Panjaabi people in a sustainable environment is at risk. Continued excessive use of groundwater for agriculture in India and Pakistan could well result in the Panjaab becoming a desert in the early 21st century. Before this, however, water scarcity might well lead to confrontation and armed conflict between India and Pakistan , which both have nuclear weapons, with disastrous consequences for the Panjaab, particularly for the poor and the environment. The socio-political problems plaguing this region need to be tackled. Moreover, integrated water resource management in the Panjaab must encompass the needs of the poor, women, landless and tenant farmers. Irrigation should be made more efficient by adopting micro-irrigation techniques, and crops that need a lesser amount of water should be planted. Programmes governing the use of water need to incorporate ecological sensibility, and need to start at the village level to develop holistic solutions that meet people's needs. www.therefugeeproject.org Pardeep Singh Rai works with Defenders of the Environment and Ecology of Panjaab. This event is being supported by the Nihangs who train with Niddar Singh, in the West Midlands, and they urge everyone who cares about the state of punjab to attend the seminar. As there is no akhara training on saterday in WM, can all the Students please try to attend!!! This issue will effect the welfare of the Dal Panth and all residents of Punjab. its 2- 6pm...see you all there

Ecocide of Panjab The Sikh Community and Youth Service (SCYS) has organised a lecture about the on-going environmental destruction occuring in Panjab. ECOCIDE of PANJAB Awareness Raising Seminar Saturday 15th October 2005 - 2.00pm SCYS UK, 348 Soho Road, Handsworth, Birmingham B21 9QL (Free parking available opposite SCYS UK in Kwik Save Car Park) You are invited to attend a special awareness raising seminar with presentations by guest speakers followed by question and answer sessions. This is being hosted jointly by the SCYS UK (Sikh Community & Youth Service UK) and DEEP (Defenders of the Environment and Ecology of Panjab) and will be attended by several Environmental campaign groups including Green Party, Green Peace, Friends of the Earth and Punjabi Sath. The aim of the seminar is to highlight the loss of biodiversity and destruction of the natural ecosystems in Panjab. This is as a result of industrial agricultural practices such as the use of chemicals, fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides. The current water crisis is also having a severe impact on the natural environment, biodiversity, ecology, aquatic ecosystems, river habitats and wetlands of Panjab. The main purpose of this seminar is to increase support from all communities to raise these issues in forums and networks in the interest of the protection of the land and waters of Panjab. We would be grateful if you could inform us if you will be attending so that adequate catering arrangements can be made. For future bookings on lectures relating to Panjab’s environmental issues please contact Pardeep Singh Rai (Environmental Lecturer) Tel: 0793 200 4815 Email : panjabdeep@yahoo.co.uk DEEP - Defenders of the Environment and Ecology of Panjab Coordinator of the Environment Advisory Group of the Panjabis in Britain All Party Parliamentary Group ::Panjab's Water Dispute:: The Energy Research Institute, a New Delhi think tank, says that already in an agriculture-based state such as Panjaab in the north, 98 percent of ground water has been exploited. The Forum for Bio-Technology and Food Security adds that if the trend continues, the once fertile Panjaab- once known as the country's granary - will turn into a desert. FORCING A DESERT UPON THE LAND OF FIVE RIVERS International environment agencies have cautioned that Panjaab , the land of the five years, could become a desert by 2025. The water table in Panjaab is at 30 meters deep and even 80 meters in some areas; each year it loses over a metre. Panjaab 's economy is largely dependent on Agriculture. It has been the bread basket of India . In the 1960's it solved the nation's long suffering food shortage problem by achieving the highest yields per acre of wheat production. However current forecasts paint a dismal picture of impending desertification. The Panjaab State has not been allowed to diversify its economy to non agricultural alternatives. Whilst the Indian nation's dependency on Panjaab may be overcome by diverting agriculture demands to other states, the Panjaabi farmer is becoming destitute and poor. The Panjaab State could go into irreversible decline. WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? Panjaab lacks autonomous decision making, the state is subject to Indian Government's policies which also determine investment strategies. While this relationship may be acceptable as any other relation between a state within a union nation, serious concerns arise as to why Panjaab has been the subject of neglect and indeed deliberate policies to erode its economic status. The facts speak for themselves - 1. The Panjaab State was forced to rely on agriculture. 2. The State has harnessed about 98% of its agriculture potential; 95% of which is dependent on irrigation - 60% of this is from groundwater, i.e. water pumped from ground. 3. Panjaab was not allowed to invest in alternate industries to reduce pressure on its agriculture, and thereby create jobs for new graduates. 4. Panjaab farmers have been forced to grow rice due to the small margins imposed by the central government on other crops. Rice demands considerably large amounts of water, almost all of which is pumped from the ground; hence increasing the depletion of the water table. 5. Unlike western countries where farmers are subsidized to rotate cropping, the central government has prohibited such subsidies. This has forced farmers to use every inch of their land to its fullest capacity, resulting in water and mineral depletion. 6. The central government has forced diversion of Panjaab 's river waters to other states. REMEDIES 1. Let Panjaab decide on subsidies or crops consuming less water. 2. Better water management. Let the Panjaab State have a say in its economy 3. Let Panjaab diversify its economy 4. Subsidies to farmers to keep land free of cropping. However it is unlikely that the Indian government will take any of these steps , unless International pressure is imposed through organisations like the UN. The environmental and water crisis in the Panjab Several decades of Green Revolution agriculture - the intensive use of water and chemical pesticides and fertilisers on hybrid crops to increase crop yields - has degraded much of the land and water in north-western India , making it difficult for people to live there. Pardeep Singh Rai Panjaab, the famous land of five rivers, is a semi-arid landlocked region in the north-western part of South Asia . The very existence of this vulnerable region depends on the waters of the five rivers, all tributaries of the Indus River . This highly productive region is known as the breadbasket of both India and Pakistan , and it was here that the Green Revolution was considered a success. But various practices have led to the environmental degradation of the Panjaab. Industrial agriculture, involving the excessive use of pesticides and fertilizers and intensive irrigation, was implemented in the region through pressure from the government and multinationals. The planting of rice, a non-traditional crop in this semi-arid region that requires intensive irrigation, is causing an environmental crisis. The International Rice Research Institute has questioned to what extent rice cultivation should be permitted in the Panjaab. Price ceilings on agricultural produce and restrictions on its export imposed by the government on Panjaabi farmers have prevented them from planting other crops that use less water. Despite the intensive irrigation, river water is diverted to less productive regions in Haryana and Rajasthan, leaving the Indian Panjaab with only about one-quarter of the water from its rivers. This diversion means that the Panjaab does have the water it needs for irrigation. Panjaabi farmers have had to dig tube wells to extract groundwater and have done so beyond sustainable levels. The construction of dams on the Panjaabi rivers has served the elite only and has altered both the volume and the course of the rivers. Many are now dry sand beds, especially the smaller streams. As a result of all these practices, in just four decades, the Panjaab is extensively degraded. Groundwater depletion Groundwater has been pumped out at a much faster rate than it has been replenished. As a result, farmers have deepened their tube wells, and the entire irrigation process has become much more expensive. In future, village wells might dry up as they depend on the same aquifer. This would cause immense hardship to rural people who have little or no piped water supply. The annual State of the World Report produced by the World Resources Institute in Washington , DC , estimates that the gap between water usage and the aquifer's sustainable yield is so high that the aquifer under the Panjaab could be depleted by the year 2025. Degradation of watersheds Deforestation along the banks of the rivers is also having a dramatic impact on the aquifers under the Panjaab. Because of less rainfall because so many trees have been cut down, they are not being recharged. In addition, because of the accompanying soil erosion, about 60% of rainwater is lost due to runoff. Water pollution Aquifers become polluted when they are recharged with irrigation water contaminated with agricultural chemicals and fertilisers. During the monsoon, heavy loads of silt, along with large quantities of dissolved salts, nutrients, organic material and bacterial contaminants, are washed off the land into the aquifers. Water logging Due to increased mechanisation and inadequate drainage, seepage from unlined canals and over-watering of fields have raised the underlying water table. This has led to increased health (especially malaria) and environmental problems. Salinisation In the drier climate of the Panjaab, water evaporation near the soil surface leads to a steady accumulation of salts in the land that eventually results in kalar (soil affected by salt) and reduced crop yields. An estimated 21% of irrigated agricultural lands in the Panjaab are affected. Loss of aquatic habitats Streams and ponds are now running dry, affecting aquatic and wetland habitats and resulting in reduced biodiversity. Desertification The land has been intensively cultivated at the expense of grazing and traditional long fallow periods. Few conservation measures have been followed. In this semi-arid region, moreover, wind erosion is also a serious threat to water balances. Global warming The Himalayan glaciers that feed Panjaab's five rivers have been receding faster than in any other part of the world. In addition, changes to the monsoons are likely to reduce the water sources of the Indus River system and directly affect the people of Panjaab. The very survival of the Panjaabi people in a sustainable environment is at risk. Continued excessive use of groundwater for agriculture in India and Pakistan could well result in the Panjaab becoming a desert in the early 21st century. Before this, however, water scarcity might well lead to confrontation and armed conflict between India and Pakistan , which both have nuclear weapons, with disastrous consequences for the Panjaab, particularly for the poor and the environment. The socio-political problems plaguing this region need to be tackled. Moreover, integrated water resource management in the Panjaab must encompass the needs of the poor, women, landless and tenant farmers. Irrigation should be made more efficient by adopting micro-irrigation techniques, and crops that need a lesser amount of water should be planted. Programmes governing the use of water need to incorporate ecological sensibility, and need to start at the village level to develop holistic solutions that meet people's needs. www.therefugeeproject.org Pardeep Singh Rai works with Defenders of the Environment and Ecology of Panjaab. This event is being supported by the Nihangs who train with Niddar Singh, in the West Midlands, and they urge everyone who cares about the state of punjab to attend the seminar. As there is no akhara training on saterday in WM, can all the Students please try to attend!!! This issue will effect the welfare of the Dal Panth and all residents of Punjab. its 2- 6pm...see you all there

LOL....I do love the way gurmukh singhs articles has been researched, and the way he as a true journalist shown a very unbiased view of nihangs. I also must applaud the fact he has great knowledge in the Nihang maryada, and Nihang History...and they way he has supported his accusations towards these so called nihangs/nangs in the the Uk. overrall a very balanced article... any way.... LIFE GOES ON.... and the confused stay confused in this tamacha of ignorance.

'WE ARE THE RIDERS OF GURU GOBOND SINGH!!!' for anyone to understand the Nihangs (or anybody elses) cup of tea, one must first empty there cup first. approach them with unbiased views, and then you will receive sensible answers. approach them aggressively/ childishly, you will recieve no true answer. from what i can see, when one stands tall in the world like a rooted tree , the rest of the world will try to uproot them because they do not understand them. the common reaction in every incidence is either fight or flight.....so if we used the nash equilbruim theory...and work together to achieve the same end result, whilst putting our differences aside....the world will be the khalsa's oyster..... and then the Riders of Guru Gobind Singh will be Nihaal.... end of the day...everybody takes something back from each camp..some good, some bad. but hey on the positive side..at least peopel are talking about the Camp... its getting free PR to the whole world.....hopefully this will intice the curious to attend the camp next year...and see for them selves what is the truth and what has been fabricated but certain groups.... Campers...... 'DO IT LIKE THEY DID IN 1699'

LOL.. in a nut shell...Rustum was a very famous persian wrestler that i am presuming Guruji was a fan of. another famous wrestler was Mouhamid Gama..who came a few years later who was also known considered Rustum II. cuase he destroyed the english in wrestling. like i said in a nut shell....i will go in more deatil at a later stage...unless DB can expand on this now.

1 question...niranjana...the book where u made ur quote from...what edition is it. most of it was typed out by his students..and the one which is being circulated in the public...which i am assuming is the 4th edition and not any higher..has many mistakes in it. currently the version in the akhara is the 9th edition...and there are a lot of changes,insertions, and extractions from the book. at present i personnaly wouldn't rely on the book u have as gospel..... just be patient ...the new book will be out by holla

Phat Akali tu Bas Kaar...go eat ur Prontha... kaur listen...from what i can see u aint lost faith...if ur willing to seek help to the questions u have.. that in it self is faith. dont be looking out for answers....look within urself.... have faith in urself. listen.... dont wanna sound like a self help guru..I'v been where u have...probably will be there again in the future.... life is like a sine wave...we all have our ups and down..... U just got to find something that will uplift u.... be it raag, be it chocalate, or even playstation..what ever puts a smile on ur face and makes u feel boosted to be who u are..is cool. I personally find bhangra, women, cartoons, and sangat which excepts me for me...uplifting... ok...I'll leave it there, the religious crew can take it from here.......just chill and let the world be ur oyster...... watch a def jam comedy stand up or somethin...or listen to some Nihang Jaikare to reallly boost u...u'll be gaurenteed to have darshan of guru ji then. p.s phat akali..ur actually refering to the theory of religion and the developement of society there and not faith when u made the above comments....if we didnt have faith in anything...u wouldnt have that cooker to cook the paronta, the electricity/gas to heat it, and the equipment to produce the flour.....and so on and so on..pass ur A levels go to uni...and then We'll see how ur faith shoots up in regards to ur mum cooking, guruji, and freedom :twisted:

The following provides some more information about the event. It is Open to all. Designed for University Students and Graduates. This is a Platform for a Highly Intellectual Dissussion. Plus all Students which Attended Sikh Student Camp 2005, will be allowed in at Half Price. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Oxford & Cambridge Sikh Alumni Association cordially invites you to its panel event on Saturday the 10th of September, 2005 at Herbert Smith LLP, Primrose Street, London, EC2A 2ED Our panel consists of prominent Sikhs in the UK from a diverse range of fields including the Media, Politics, Business, Academia and Culture & Heritage. The event will follow the format of the BBC’s popular ‘Question Time’ programme, and will be hosted by Amandeep Dhaliwal, a journalist with the BBC. The interactive debate will cover various topics of relevance to Sikh Community in the UK and it is hoped that the forum will provide food for thought for all those present, as well as an opportunity to meet with alumni, friends and guests. Details: This event is being held in conjunction with the newly formed University of London Sikh Alumni Association (UoLSAA), and is open to Oxford, Cambridge and University of London Alumni, their guests and friends of the associations. This evening is kindly been hosted by Herbert Smith LLP, a large law firm in the City. There will be a reception with light refreshments from 6pm, followed by a performance before we are seated for the panel debate. The event will conclude by ~8.30pm. The dress code is jacket & tie or traditional. The ticket price for the event is £10 per head. Please confirm your attendance by sending a cheque, payable to "OCSAA" to, Daljit Sidhu, 4 Cranmore Avenue, Osterley, Middx, TW7 4QW. Our guest panel: · Chief Guest - Dr Indarjit Singh OBE Dr Singh is the most widely known voice of the UK Sikh community. He edits the highly respected ‘Sikh Messenger’ and is Director of the Network of Sikh Organisations (UK), with more than 80 affiliated organisations. He regularly represents Sikhs at the Commonwealth Service, the Annual Remembrance Day Service at the Cenotaph and on similar civic occasions. He is also a leading figure in the national and international inter faith movement, a Patron of the World Congress of Faiths and an Executive Committee member of the Inter Faith Network UK (and one of its founder members and first officers). In 1989, Dr Indarjit Singh became the first non- Christian to be awarded the UK Templeton Prize ‘for the furtherance of spiritual and ethical understanding’. In 1991 he received the Inter faith Medallion for services to religious broadcasting. He was awarded the OBE in June 1996. · Politics - Councilor Sonika Nirwal Sonika Nirwal grew up in the heart Southall before reading her undergraduate in Social and Political Sciences at Cambridge. She became a Councilor by the age of 27 and since then has built up a range of experience in local government having managed a variety of projects as a local authority officer and as a principal consultant for the IDeA (Improvement and Development Agency). She is an elected member of the London Borough of Ealing where she chairs an executive committee and is involved in the council’s scrutiny function. · Culture & Heritage - Mr Harbinder Singh, Director of the Anglo Sikh Heritage Trail (ASHT). Harbinder Singh has been instrumental in setting up the ASHT, a project of the Maharajah Duleep Singh Centenary Trust. MDSCT was first established in 1993, the centenary year of the death of Maharajah Duleep Singh, with the objective of highlighting and promoting Anglo Sikh Heritage. Since then it has engaged in a series of initiatives, including the ‘Arts of the Sikh Kingdoms’ exhibition in collaboration with the V&A; the annual ‘Portrait of Courage’ Lecture at the Imperial War Museum; the Jawans to Generals’ Exhibition, in collaboration with English Heritage and numerous other projects, including the commissioning of a statue of Maharajah Duleep Singh, the first major piece of Sikh art outside India. · Academia -. Dr Jeevan Singh Deol Dr Deol was a research Fellow in Indian History at St John's College, Cambridge before moving to the School of African and Oriental Studies (SOAS) in Londonwhere he now lectures. Dr Deol specialises in Urdu language and literature, Punjab history; Sikh religious history, Punjabi literature and manuscriptology, Mughal history, terrorism and security issues and has written on security and faith issues for The Times and The Independent. He is currently a regular contributor to the 'Today' programme's 'Thought for the Day' slot. He is one of the founding members of the UK Punjab Heritage Association, a voluntary organisation dedicated to preserving and promoting the material heritage of the Punjab in the UK and abroad. · Business & Commerce - Mr Ravinder Singh Gidar Ravinder grew up in West London after coming to the UK from the Punjab in 1965 with his parents. A couple of years after graduating as a Pharmacist in 1981, he decided to go into business at the age of 23. By the age of 30 he was running a chain of Pharmacies in the South East. In 1992, Ravinder then moved into the care business after completing a Post Graduate diploma is Community Care, and in the last 8 years has built up a company of 400 beds within 6 care homes. With businesses worth in excess of £40m, Ravinder attributes his success to the basic principles of leadership which are clearly taught in Sikhism. · Media & Education- Miss Sukhraj Kaur Randhawa Sukhraj grew up in Wolverhampton and read English at Oxford, graduating in 2001, after which she completed a PGCE in Secondary English and Drama. While teaching Sukhraj has been pursuing a writing career, contributing articles to Punjab Darpan as well as gaining experience while working with Vogue. Her prize-winning article on arranged marriages was short-listed for the Catherine Pakenham Award in 2003 and was published by the Sunday Telegraph. In 2004, Sukhraj won the Vogue Talent Contest writing award and her published story is in production to be turned into a short film. Sukhraj is currently combining teaching and freelance writing, with an MA course. · Law - Mr Manjit Singh Gill QC Manjit Singh Gill appears in the 'Legal 500' and is the editor of the Immigration and Nationality Law Reports. His chambers was the first truly multi-racial barristers' chambers in the UK formed over 30 years ago specifically to combat discrimination and protect civil liberties. Mr Gill has conducted several high profile cases ranging from the Conspiracy to Murder the Indian Prime Minister in 1985 to the House of Lords' decision in 2004 on the indefinite detention without trial of suspected terrorists. He has worked on Sikh human rights issues for over 22 years and in that time has attended several UN conferences to lobby on human rights issues affecting Sikhs resulting, in particular, in amendments to the 2001 UN Declaration on Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance specifically to cater for Sikhs. Discussion Topics You and your guests are invited to submit questions which you consider to be pertinent to the discussion. Example topics are given below but these are only guidelines. Please submit questions when sending your cheque using the form below. Example topics: Sikh Image in the West - How has the British media portrayal of Sikhs been impacted by the ‘Behzti’ play, September 11th and the London Bombings? How influential is the Sikh media in steering Sikh community opinions? Which Sikh institutions exist to interact with the mainstream media and represent our interests? Social Issues - What forums do we have in place to discuss pressing social issues that exist today and those that may become important in the future, for example, alcohol and drug abuse, homosexuality, abortion? Is the Gurudwara a suitable place for such debate? What is the role of Sikh/Punjabi media and the internet in addressing social issues? Unity of direction as British Sikhs - Where should we look for direction on religious/social/political issues? Are these ‘directing’ institutions united in their views? Should the source of this unity be the Akal Takht Sahib or should it be host nation based for diaspora Sikhs? What are our aspirations as a community within British society? Submissions: Tickets and directions will be mailed out closer to the event for which the dress code is jacket and tie or traditional. Tickets will be posted in due course. If you have not received your tickets by 5th September 2005, please contact us on 0790 382 0 382.

The way I'v been taught is to basically use it for lacerations, cupping limbs( wrist, forarm, neck et al) within range. i find it favourable using it for horizonatal blows to a limit of + and - 30 degree strikes towards the stomach region, But the way i have seen Ustad Niddar Singh Use it is at a Higher level, to actaully understand the movements one has too record the movments on camera and then watch it on slow play to catch all the moves. for more indepth info contact Ustad Niddar Singh, or Akaal Arms...they will definatly know the full use of this particular shaster. you can also try asking krishna...as this particular weapon is used in south asia amongest escrima, kali, serak, and sayoc fighters. Hope that helps.

I wonder what those Nihang Haters are Feeling right now towards the Dal? Hopefully Realization of the Bigger Truth

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050813/saturday/main2.htm Mission Possible Rubinder Gill catches up with 12 young minds, who worked for the moon and got it. Space-age students: The victorious Budha Dal Public School team which designed a city for the moon THIS school run by Nihangs has done the country proud yet again — by planning a prize-winning settlement on the moon. Budha Dal Public School, Patiala, run by the Nihang Dal of Baba Santa Singh, aced the field for the second time running at NASA’s Settlement in Space on Moon competition at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida, USA. The 12-member team, representing Asia at the meet, hit the bull’s-eye again, much to the amazement of fellow competitors. For the team it was just reward for all the sleepless nights, turmoil and practice they had endured. Eight boys and four girls along with their two advisers also metamorphosised on the way — from preparing for the competition to winning it. The competition was held from July16 to18 and the team returned to India on August 1. Kamalpreet Sohi, Navneet Kaur, Rahul Saini, Amteshwar Singh, Saurabh Anand, Aayush Rai, Manpreet Kaur, Samrat Singh, Sahil Arora, Navninder Singh Saini, Harleen Kaur and Ikwinder Chadha, along with their teacher Anita Singh learnt to work as one unit as they spent two months together before the competition. Families, classroom studies, hobbies, entertainment and even sleep took a back seat as they slogged with their plans and counter-plans. The team took over the school conference room, studying and sleeping there. Families chipped in with home-made food, keeping them well-nourished. Confined proximity was good for brain-storming sessions with Anita acting as a guiding hand. "Proximity also meant some ego troubles, but they all seem nothing now," the 12 talents tell you now. "It was all worth it," they chorus. Patiala to Balderol The distance may have been immense but their imagination travelled it easily. Balderol — that was the settlement they had to plan on the moon. A rough outline, called the Request for Proposal, was given to the participants. It said the settlement was for mining and would have 15,500 people. The deadline was 43 hours after which they had to convince the judges of their design in a 35-minute presentation, followed by a 10-minute question-answer session. It was not only about science and technology but also human factors and relations, business transactions and optimum use of resources. Collaborating with Whitney High School, California, the countdown started. Planning things on the moon is no easy task. With one-sixth the gravity of the earth, things can be difficult for earthlings. You jump six times higher on the moon, mistakenly thinking yourself to be Superman. But hazards unthinkable on the earth abound on our planet’s satellite. Hostile atmosphere, no oxygen, space debris and lunar dust all have to be taken care of. The team got down to the task, dividing itself into seven departments — structures, operations, human factors, automation, business, schedule and cost and special studies. The company was named Vulture Animation. All departments got down to work. A site was selected on the lunar surface to make the settlement. Protection from space debris and availability of sunlight were taken into account. It was set on the outer edge of Copernicus crater. That side of the moon has sufficient sunlight through out the year. Solar panels were set up. Balderol was to run on solar energy. The structure designed was in the shape of a dome, the most stable structure. The fibres used had to be resistant to the lunar environment. Calculations were made with tables provided by NASA. There were domes within domes, housing different sections. A whole city was planned inside the dome. Houses had the facade of suburban Indian houses, for building them lunar dust was packed and used in form of bricks along with PVC. (Lunar dust is a strong building material.) Hospitals were planned, parks designed and other forms of entertainment worked out. Three-dimensional and interactive games were also there to keep the population entertained. Use of robots All the work was to be done by robots. After all if mankind is settling on the moon, they couldn’t be expected to carry out menial tasks. Gardens were planned on rooftops, to make optimum use of available space. The lunar hanging gardens. Different types of robots were to work on Balderol. From mining robots to household robots. Like humans, robots had to have protective gear, to shield them from heat and tough environment. The terrain was tough and the mining outposts were far away from the residential dome. Farming and horticulture were planned to feed the settlement. They were placed under a separate dome. The tier system was used to save space and water. Anyway, everything was to be recycled. The time frame for building Balderol was 12 years. Costs of different material to be used were calculated, including the inflation expected during the years it took to build it. To top it, the Request for Proposal said Balderol was to be built 40 years from now. The team had to start from what the scenario would be 40 years hence. A leapfrog into space age. The mission was completed when the team was able to convince the judges that their plan was the best to work for Balderol. Data gleaned and gathered from various sources was used. Information from NASA’s missions to Mars and the moon came in handy. The students also browsed books and depended on the Internet.

seen the write up and pictures...this will definatly be a must have for your book shelves... it should be out by next spring the latest. its about 300 pages long...so not as big as harry potter. but the book provides pictures of images never before seen by the public eye.!! all i can say is you will not be disappointed!!!!

The baghs name was Ruustam,.. named after a afmousr warrior from the middle east. Mr. Dynamic banda, can you please explain on the histriy of Ruustam. i am at present to busy to give historical bio

lol people all this maryada stuff are Guidelines they are not Gospel written in blood, which you follow to the letter. as they are not applicable in all situations. ask any Akali Nihang living in dal. or actually ask the Budha dal Panj Piare just my interpretation...dont get ur White/blue/Pink kashere in a twist. Question:do u actually believe a colour is the soul tool that decides if u get nirvana!!! Please!!! ?

lol nirajana..just curious..which edition of the book have you got. there are several versions, many with incorrect spellings and details. you shouldnt take everything you read from it as gospel..as it was written initially for the students, with the help of many students typing the booklet, it was designed for the students of the shastervidya akhara, to give them a basic understanding. it was also a tool to filter out the idiots who believed everything they were told or read, without questioning anything or even asking for proof. i could go on to more detail...so if u want private message me, and i'll give you the bigger picture. but the best apprach would be to just ask Nidar Singh in class on saterday in cranford.

a very concise and detailed book. not as many images as warrior saints..but still as brilliant. i really recommend this book to all.

I have been told that a person by the name of yankee attacked a sikh with axe at holla mohalla in anandpur. he gave the person and his colleague several injuries. is this true? also is it true that any body speaking english with a british accent and wearing blue clothing is referred to as a uk NIhang, and all the individuals attacked and injured have been labeled uk Nihangs? and can you also state what the Authentic Punjabi taksaalis view is on the uk nihangs? there are many rumours being spread by some wicked chardikala gurusikh akj/boss individuals. what ever so called truths they are spreading.. are they true? also,I have been in touch with the group which went to holla mohalla for the two week sanatan/punjab/sikhi trip. so far so good, very good feed back with loads of photographs and recordings. thankfully none of them have been involved in any of the disruptions. currently half are with Baba Santa Singh and BabaHari singh with the other half with the chief of punjab and his colleagues ( only for a evening meal) everybody including the punjab police, the Nihang dal, and taksal are preparing for this weekends chardikala tarna dal wedding. which should be a brilliant experiance for all the uk travellers. talk to you all soon, its my turn to do the horse riding competition.( the phujangis are cheating by trying to make me ride a donkey...lol )

If you really are being genuwine about meeting Baba Hari Singh. he is already in Anandpur, he's been there for a month already doing seva, and preparing the langar, degh, and chatka logistics for holla mohalla. he'll be with baba Jageer singh, Baba Prem Singh, Baba Maan Singh, the 'sanatan crew ' .. and Nidar Singh. What ever questions you have, you can ask all of them, including Baba Santa Singh. from my understanding, 'sanatan sikhi is a terminalogy to describe what sikhi was several centuries ago in comparison to todays practices' the word is being propagated to wake up all the sleeping intellectuals, and get them to revive the true sikhi of old. Which is still here but very scarce, as the dirty politicans of today with there unjust and stereotypical views have created so many barriers with other people of different schools of thought. i could go in more detail. but to tell you the truth... its best if you ask people who know more on this topic. the ones that know me, know where i stand, and challenge_ everything, i already explained the big picture about what the purpose of this 'sanatan' word is??? best thing is ask Nidaar singh in person or ask Baba Anoop Singh and Baba Purmann Singh for more details. people are making a mountain out of a mole. best thing is just to find the ekta and dont spend to much time with everything else.... other wise you will miss out on life.

majority of the gang will be guests of the dal..so we may be in the company of Akali Hari Singh, Akali Jageer Singh,Joga, mehtab, and sukha singh of budha dal. if however some of the coconuts need to live a bit 'comfy' to get the 'real' experiance, so be. u need to sort uself out individually. but you may need to let the organisers know.

just bought my ticket... i think they have 3 left..... so anybody else comin...hurry!!!! its quicker to book by contacting them by email ( sanatansikhs@yahoo.com )... the travel agents a pendu. they are also selling tickets for air slovakia..but they are for £500. they have 10 of them.