HSD1

If you are trying to insinuate that I brought it up or encouraged them then you couldnt be further from the truth. Seeing as my grandparents were victims of Partition I'm not overly keen on the idea of shared 'clans' with people who caused us so much harm. I also dont read those stupid British 'anthropoligical' books on caste like you do or try and find common cause with people of the same caste wherever they may be lol. Again, I was calling muslim punjabi jatts innocuous when they go on about caste in their life. They dont seem bothered about anyone else's caste and dont use it as a crutch for a superiority complex or persecute others. I was asking why there is a difference. Read what I posted above again. Do you think the recruiters target us, or that there are go betweens from our own community who run after them and desperately try and drag them in to keep us relevant? You think that the average recruiting officer knows the difference between Sikh Gurdwaras? Of course not, they have their hands held by our lot. If the Police and Army were serious about recruiting Sikhs do you honestly think Ramgarhias and Ravidassias would say no? Do you know any Gurdwaras that have turned them away? Also a lot depends on the person who joins. Not every Sikh who joins the police or army is a jatt nutter. But as long as Sikhs give a warped idea to their own lot about what power and responsibility entails, most of those in the Army and Police will be these unhinged stormtroopers. I'm not being defensive. Facing up to a lot of abuses by those in power in Gurdwaras here or back home in the police is something we should do. But what you need to know is that most of the victims of this are what you would call 'Jatts' and that these people lack the sense or worldliness to comprehend being shafted. The pervy 'religous' young adults and the arrogant/hypocritical amritdharis are what I've been told about by people who saw those things in a West London Gurdwara. The rest I've seen myself at the local Singh Sabha apart from the old Singh marrying old goris thing. That happens to about half a dozen Singhs that I know of in the local town. In one case it led to a pretty shitty situation for the Sikh family that I wont go into on here as people will guess who I'm on about. I'll PM you if you really want to know. The Singh Sabha one looks like a neo-Dickensian workhouse on some days. No, not really, I dont put women on a pedestal especially if I dont know them. So let me get this right, they are well educated but they go out with real chavs? OK mate, you must live in the retarded part of the UK or something. I only know freshies and real guttersnipes who do that kind of thing and that's because they are desperate or thick. Maybe you're just so ugly that they'd prefer a drug addict with no teeth? Or maybe it's because they're Jattis so they want a Baldrick to understand them on their level, not a genius like yourself? Joking aside, it's not a major thing to get worked up about. Another thing is how Sikhs like to say what they think non-sikh people want to here. Being racist, slagging off their family and culture, giving gory details of things that happened to people they know etc. For some non-sikhs this a major turn off. I know that for some non-anglos it has made them readdress their own attitudes and mentality to the world as well as making apprehensive of knowing Sikhs. But Sikhs dont seem to get it. It's why starting a job or going anywhere and coming across another Sikh can be a major headache. They think you'll blow open the bullshit walls they've built around themselves. I couldnt care less, but some of our own lot get that wild look in their eyes lol. On a macro level, other people see through this and dont want to babysit us. It's one of the reasons why East Punjab hasnt attracted the kind of investment or relationships with countries who could do it some good. Instead they end up working with the same 'historical abusers'. Look at the result - Ludhiana has the highest level of pollution in any city in the world even though the industrialists and govt there spent a lot of money on foreign 'advisory' firms and 'specialists'. These people were happy to take the money but not do the work to a reasonable standard, but Sikhs still love them. You can guess which country these advisors came from. They wont lose any sleep how messed up Ludhiana is. And before you say what about China, bare in mind that if you divide the economic output of the city by the level of pollution measured in units, you get a far far lower figure compared to the Chinese. Sikhs can chalk up another admin cut up due to our own stupidity and laissez faire attitude to our own people paired with a unwavering devotion to those who just want to abuse us. It even happens in the UK itself - the bill for the new Southall Gurdwara ran into many millions due to an massive fee paid to an architecture firm. A firm who employ a gora who is married to the daughter of a Southall Gurdwara committee member... The schadenfreude that exists in intersikh relationships is ridiculous too. When it comes to outsiders they act completely in the opposite way. The older generation are a like a domineering matriarch/patriarch who makes sure the samosas are piled higher than a Nihang's turban when guests are around, but belittles and retards their own children's life experiences. The chalakness that SIkhs are so proud to display isnt even that sly when you compare us to some others. FFS going on about how chalak you are is a clear sign you arent chalak. All these SIkhs who spend their lives screwing over other SIkhs spend a lot of time having to look over their shoulder as their actions usually come back to haunt them. If they were truly chalak they would know that short termism and selfishness isnt going pay dividends. It is also leads to a warped attitude attitude to people around them. Sikhs are always 'bad', therefore non-Sikhs are 'good'. This mentality has led to a lot of trouble due to exposure and naivete and we seem to be keen on carrying it on. At the end of the day there are bad and good people in every race. Sometimes the bad ones exist in high enough numbers to be statistically significant - a sign of an issue in the community/nation/race. The thing is that doesnt entirely explain the way in which these police convinced themselves to murder children/women/innocent men. None of the victims were nasty to the police and the policemen were family men. What can cause them to have that ability to butcher on a whim and display anger like turning on a tap against people that cannot on any level be described as guilty or threatening? Where is this all coming from? Who is filling their heads with this? Also, some Sikhs are much nicer after they've had a drink. The bottle can be a better friend that most Sikhs lol! jk I'm not denying it's Jatts committing these crimes. But the victims are Jatts too and in the traditional monkey-see-monkey-do these actions filter down to poor Jatts and non-Jatts too. Why has that 'Jatt Sardar' mentality become commonplace in the last 150 years? Why is it still so virulent when Sikhs are removed from other Jatts and Sikh population centres? You say this is a Jatt issue, but the vast majority of the Fauj-i-Qilajat were from 'Jatt' backgrounds back in the day and they had an outstanding reputation for being fair, keeping order and not disrespecting locals or stealing when sent away from home. Why is it that families that produced kids who could maintain the high standards of the Fauj-i-Qilajat suddenly started producing people who have been killing and hurting ordinary Sikhs since 1849? It may have peaked in the 80s, but it happened before and still happens now. This shows it is far more embedded than more 'cosmetic' problems. Is it a pattern repeated throughout British ex-colonies? I was reading an autobiography by a famous Jamaican who travelled throughout Europe in the 1920s. One thing he mentioned is how he had a friend who was a black boxer in England that had married a white English woman. Everywhere he went he was attacked by English blokes who saw him with here and thought they could take him on. He usually had to knock them out and leg it. The author contrasted this with his native Jamaica where British police and soldiers raped women and even killed them regularly. It wasnt uncommon to come across bodies of women that had been attacked and killed in the forests there he said. Today most Jamaicans look upon the British rule as one of peace and prosperity. Is a similar thing stalking the Sikh conscience? But the British have gone anyway. Yet this still happens. Why is it still going on? Just because someone gives orders for it to carry on, doesnt mean they have to be followed. 'I was just following orders' doesnt cut it. It's almost as if the perpetrators want to do this. Like it proves something. Like they are living up to something or achieving something. Like they get some kicks out of the exploitation. I also wouldnt agree that there are universally accepted standards of civilised behaviour. The atrocities from both sides in the War on Terror, the communal violence in many parts of the world and brutality show that it's quite common. The thing is that for Sikhs we were a people who by all measures should be dead as a nation. We should have gone the way of all the other people who crossed big empires like the Mughals and Afghans. But we won even though we were the little guy and we had a pretty fair, communal and relatively equal system for the times after. A lot of people when they talk of freedom, equality and human rights only want that to apply to themselves or use it as a stick to beat others they dont like. Our standards arent quite the same as everyone elses though there are exceptions. But the Khalsa has never relied on anyone else to tell it what to do to be successful or the right thing. I am sure many Afghans/Mughals/Brits spoke about freedom and how great their systems were whilst trying to fight us. It doesnt take a genius or a massive understanding of Sikhi to see through it all. Why have some of us gone and just taken a massive dump on that heritage? Why are those standards warped and twisted to justify the kind of crimes we slag others off for like the Germans or Russians? I think some Sikhs have their heads in the clouds here or dont understand mathematics - it's not a couple of people or randomised or explained as a minority of bad apples - there are tens of thousands dead, possibly hundreds of thousands.

I'm not on about some jihadi wannabe inbreds that you chitchat with down the local chicken shop. I'm on about off the boat freshies. They're always on about Jatt clans this, Jatt clans that and it's all rather innocuous. Why is it that Sikhs have turned caste into such a battlefield and a crutch to feel good about themselves but our Pakistani brethren dont? Have you ever borrowed anything off one of these freshies? They refuse to take it back and do that typically Punjabi cultural thing of making sure you keep it. A rather cute game. Sikhs on the other hand, wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire. You're not my caste/creed/jatha/nationality etc! they would say. Why is it that Sikhs dont feel like they are getting ahead unless someone else is getting screwed over? What is wrong with Sikhs? Why are Jatts from across the border not as psychotic? They target Sikhs for employment. You know why. There are people in these ghettoes who have ties to the army and recruiters and can act as a go between for both sides. If your average Ramgarhia or Ravidassia committee could speak good English and have contact points with the recruiters they would happily do this too. But I will give it to you that Sikhs do lay out the red carpet for this. The committee probably quite like the thought of other Sikh's kids going off and dying whilst their own kids rinse the Gurdwara funds. But hasnt that been the case since 1849? As for what you saw in a Singh Sabha, let's be honest, if that's the worst you have seen then you dont go that often. Amritdharis moaning about eating food made by moneh, before they go off to use a toilet after an English crackhead was in there. The younger amritdharis touching each other up. Old SInghs marrying old goris who came there for the free food and couldnt believe their luck coming acrossing these widowers with their factory pensions and savings from decades of hardwork. Once the Singh pops his clogs, she gets the money, his house, his land and do you think she will give anything to her stepchildren? Hell no! She makes sure her middle aged 'hardworking' 'salt of the earth' kids get everything instead. Assorted weirdos coming to Gurdwaras now. Sitting in front of the Guru and having to see chavvy jackals sitting there with their eyes bulging at the golak, waiting for someone to put some money in that doesnt go through the slit. Being told by the oldboys not to scare away the goreh, then having to watch him wail and cry when someone tells him that someone has pinched his shoes. Walking into the langar hall and seeing a depressed soulless freshy with a thousand yard stare who looks like he cant understand where it all went wrong. Next to him is a moti chav sitting there trying to use her roti and sabji like a fajita, moaning that 'you guys should invent better plates to eat this kind of stuff!'. Her boyfriends stare just getting wider and more depressed each time she opens her mouth with another pearl of wisdom. Girls going out clubbing and being well known slags - then turning up the next day with her chuni in the Gurdwara to spend a few hours and going 'Waheguru, Waheguru, Waheguru!' Anyway how did you know they were jattis? If people are going to go on about fair skin, how great Britain is even if they've never been abroad and all the other stupid things Sikhs talk about without thinking of the effect it might have. Our lot marrying chavs is quite common if they are freshies. Our lot are told that Britain is the golden country and that they have to do anything to stay here. The pressure back home on them is ridiculous. They come here and no matter how bad it is, they think its great. Even if they end up on a sink estate living out a real life version of Shameless. If the girls were born here, then there is that other topic where we discussed this, this topic probably isnt the place. I guess if you were talking about something else than what you say would explain it all. But it just sounds like the usual fundamentalist cop out. How much Sikhi does it take for a grown man in the police to know that driving down a road and seeing a woman walking home isnt an excuse to jump out and rape her. Then drag her over to a well and chuck her in, then go and book her relatives for her rape and murder. Beat her family up, shake them down for money throw a couple in jail. All in a day's work. Then go down the Gurdwara and have a prayer and donate a bit of money. How committed to Sikhi do you need to be to know that taking a boy off a field for no reason is wrong? Taking him to a safehouse, keeping him for a few days with hourly beatings and any other torture that the Sikh cop feels up to. When the boy, many werent even teenagers let alone men, is broken and clearly not a Khalistani why does the Sikh policeman still beat and torture him? How can he justify it? Is this His hukam? Is this the boy's karma of a past life? Are his parents at fault and bad Sikhs? When the bewildered child who doesnt know why he is there and what he has done to bring this upon him looks up at the Sardar and asks for mercy for whatever it is that may have made this fellow SIkh hate him or bring this upon him, why is the Sikh with the power not capable of an ounce of mercy? How much Sikhi does it take for the Sikh cop to not ask him 'do your parents have hidden money or are they well off?' When he responds 'of course they dont', how religous does the Sikh cop have to be so that he doesnt think 'that's too bad', before bludgeoning the lad to death (quick deaths are no fun for the average Sikh cop) and disposing of his body in a cremation that none of his family will know about. Sadly our answer to all of life's problems is just more religion. The fact that many of these Sikh cops were amritdharis, had no family history of being in the police and yet were willing to be police and do all sorts. How much Sikhi does it take to know that taking an innocent's life is wrong? To avoid a long arsed discussion where Punjabi culture or caste get blamed for everything let me get this back on track. Why is that Sikhs go on about how the faith gives equality to women and Sikhs historically fought to prevent the use of women as war booty, yet Sikhs who know this are willing to use rape not just against 'insurgents' but any woman they like the look of. Why is it that religous Sikhs do that weird thing where they tell you their opinion as if it is fact and sit there with a cheshire cat smile on their face and that look in their eyes - a look that I havent seen in any other race apart from Anglo toffs when they want something off you or when they are trying to get you do something that probably benefits them far more? If you disagree with that type of person, heaven help you. Why is it that Sikhs commit such crimes to poor people who they think stand in their way or are against the 'sarbat da phalla' of their masters? I know religous Sikhs in the UK who work for the UKBA and they are some of the most villainous people you would ever meet. They know plenty about their religion. Sikhs in the 80s knew plenty about Sikhi. Even if they didnt, on a human level they shouldnt have done what they did. There are probably retired Gestapo officers with cleaner records. Why is there a transplanted dark heart still pumping poison through our nation's body? Why is the sickness not fought on a conscience level?

So if killing 83 people doesnt get you promoted, what will? This is ridiculous, yet unsurprising. 'In Sikh Punjab, police murder you In Khalistan, you murder police!' Eh? Jatts in Pakistan dont murder their own people. Also if jatts listened to other jatts, they wouldnt murder innocent jatts. If anything this is typical Sikh idiots thinking doing their typical thing. 'Oh me so mighty, me so righteous, everyone in my way must die!' Been happening since 1849, wont end as long as people can blame things like Punjabi culture or god knows what other lame excuse their fundamentalist brains come up with. But these SIkhs were raised in SIkh homes. They have turbans and beards ffs! Plenty of Kharkoos who were moneh wouldnt be good enough for people like you. So how do you explain that these sellouts are raised in Sikh homes? What is that is turning them away and who is responsible? One thing I would like to add is that this issue isnt just about the 1980s. My Granddad told me that when he ended up in EP after Partition the police used to shake people down for gold and in the 50s/60s would kill people by chucking them in wells or just beating them up. They never had this problem in West Punjab. EP was always considered a more 'backwards' part of the Punjab, the people there reflect that. Unfortunately its spread to the West as well. Just look at the UKBA. Give a Sikh a uniform and some authority and you got yourself a stormtrooper that would make your average Waffen SS soldier scared. Hardinge really did break the Khalsa.

I grew up in the UK and what you say is pretty much what a lot of people from working class backgrounds go through. But is it really Punjabi culture at fault here? If you were to go to East Punjab today, a lot of the people there are nothing like the puritanical image our elders hold up as a guide to Punjabi culture. In fact anything you see there would make you question everything you were told about Sikhs and Punjabis as a nation growing up. 'Higher caste' Sikhs still are very Punjabi in the UK but they dont seem to have the same hangups or fears the majority of older Sikhs here do. Probably because they are more successful and dont have the same fear of being assimilated as us 'rednecks'. Of course this is just anecdotal, I dont know where you're from or if you can relate. Why certain elders are more highly strung about this stuff than others, I dont know. The way I see it is that our parents and elders when faced with living in another country will do pretty much anything to get their kids to act in a certain way. They'll bring religion, culture, family, honour etc into it - anything and everything to get their own way. The fact that it seems hypocritical or stupid is lost on them, especially as their tunnel vision doesnt let them see it any other way. You say Punjabi culture is very patriarchal, which some families can be, but a lot of families arent so strict or practice that 'all under one roof' thing some Asian families do. In fact a lot of honour killings in the UK are carried out on the orders of a Sikh matriarch. Not something that Punjabi culture has ever had a history of. Sikh girls in London go out drinking in groups and go clubbing nowadays etc, just like the boys tend to. Not all girls do it, but then again not all boys are hard drinking nutters or get free rides off their parents. The older generation used to have this way of thinking that boys with non-Sikh girlfriends could at least raise their kids as Sikhs. Girls on the other hand, wouldnt. In a lot of cases it seems they were right. But times and attitudes change. Mixed marriages are more common and many Sikhs see their kids marrying middle class goreh (regardless of whether it's the son or daughter) as a step up and a sign of acceptance in the UK. Some of these are very religous, or what would be described as Punjabi. They arent bothered if their grandkids arent going to grow up Sikhs, they have sacrificed that for integration. In reality, religion is just another thing to be try and be good at so they have the bragging rights, a bit like how you describe your aunt. Most other people dont care, but for these zealots they have to go that extra mile to seem perfect or at least a cut above the rest. Nothing to do with Sikhi or Punjab but more just people's own personalities. A lot of our own lot get turned off their religion due to other factors like religous infighting and the fact they will never be good enough for some jathas/groups. Plenty remain proud Punjabis without caring about caste, this is how a lot of kids from Punjabi xtian converts have been brought back in to our wider family. On the other hand, plenty of religous Sikhs who brag about how westernised they are and how removed they are from Punjab still care about caste when it comes to day to day things. Being Punjabi isnt all that bad either, we can be a good bunch if we put the effort in, especially compared to some other races. If you feel stifled, the best thing is to talk it out with those who you feel are getting on your case. If you think they will listen. As for the whole 'no hindu, no muslim' and equality thing, I think that's up for interpretation. It's not about revering religion, it's about seeing the human behind the religion or skin colour/political persuarsion. That means the same standards for all and making them practice what they preach if they consider their background is so great. If we were to revere other religions just for the sake of equality we would be in pretty dark territory fairly quickly. A lot of people from any background use religion as a smokescreen for all kinds of crimes like paedophilia and bigotry. But that's my take on it, plenty of other Sikhs see all religions as the same, even if they know nothing of them. To summarise my comment, I would say: 'Dont let the b*st*rds grind you down'. People are fickle and use all sorts of stuff to justify the way they are. Culture is what you make it.

The thing is if I log out it goes back to normal. Has something happened to my account?

It looks like this still. I tried adding a screenshot but I cant see if it uploaded.

Problems are still persisting, what is going on?

It seems its only SikhAwareness that is like this. Sikhsangat is fine. All the other sites I go on seem fine too. It's like someone's removed the Javascript for the board and I'm seeing a stripped down version.

Well there is no background on mine (it's white not blue now) and I cant quote anyone either. Am I on moderation?

Is this page displaying weird for anyone?

Sikh political thought has been a joke for two centuries now. For a whole load of reasons that we can discuss another time. But Chatanga's point is mired in the constant referencing to backsides. It's not helping him or you. What I think he's trying to say is that replacing Britannia with Americana like we have in the West or Hindustania like they have at home isnt going to help. We're just moving in with another foster parent and their fortunes are our own. Nice when things are going well, but when it sinks, we hit the bottom first and cushion their fall like we did when Britain fell apart. The recession and America's reversals and withdrawals have already had an effect. We can see European countries reverting to their pre-WW2 mentalities- to the obvious detriment of Sikhs in formerly safe countries. India may be on the way up now but it's growth is to be expected now that the British are no longer there to cream it all off. It's hardly the runaway success of China. Many nonSikh Indians love the Brits still and the colonial infrastructure will creak on until someone kicks the door in. Then there is the other side of being in these relationships - cultural contamination. Racism and dodgy converts/deras in the West or dodgy deras/mixed religion and Indian on Sikh violence in India. Neither are better options. The growth of Punjab and the diasopara isnt about being a part of India's overhyped and probably ineffective modernisation. It's about achieving a position of strength that Sikhs havent enjoyed since the 1840s and that our Gurus and so many of our ancestors fought for. Whether India or the West disappear in a black hole or learn to shit gold bricks, who cares if we have sorted ourselves out? This is the point of unity. Not deciding who's ass tastes nicer. They do it because our elders love commodifying the youth.

I think there are two motives that are at play here. The first is aimed at us. Many of the toffs want us to adopt English history pre-1849 as our own - having your own narrative isnt on. Some Goreh love feeling superior and trying to make anything different look out of place. If you do try to emulate them that just fuels their self-righteousness and arrogance and makes them feel their opinions are vindicated and encourages them enough to become even more outlandish and demand more off you. If you dont and try to fight it, you're an outsider/loner/troublemaker/idiot/extremist and have an agenda/want attention/want money/should go home. You cant win either way. The second is to pull the wool over their own proletariat's eyes. Some Sikhs use their history as a crutch or prostitute it to make them feel good or get acceptance etc. Poor white kids learning this stuff are going to feel less bad and get an inflated sense of selfworth, from supposed past achievements, that is divorced from reality. When someone higher up in the class system tells them to do some menial/rural work when they leave school they can tolerate the hardships better. After all it is how things were done in the past and why change a class system that produced such a wonderful empire and a past they all want to live in? That's what happens when you give your people a fairytale and untruthful history. We might even see the re-emergence of some Victorian-esque workhouses, filled with grinning Anglos happy to work, spend their money on beer and then piss it all away against a wall. As for our own lot, I cant wait to see what new low depths we will sink to. I can imagine some Sikhs going over this syllabus and breathing a sigh of relief as long as there is mention of Sikhs in the World Wars. Others will thank their lucky stars that the English came to Punjab and colonised it so they could live here today. Hopefully it will be something new, the last two examples arent as funny to see as they used to be.

History and GCSE History were taught badly when I was at school, it would take a mammoth effort to make it worse. I am really beginning to think that the toffs are trying to dumb down the kids so they can get them back on the fields in a generation. History in this country is always treated with rose tinted spectacles. The Anglo-Saxon extermination of the Native Britons and Romans is not mentioned. Neither is the fact that most people in England thought the Spanish Armada would win - when the English ships returned after the storm had destroyed the Spanish ships Queen Liz 1 decided to have the army lock all the sailors up on their ships and keep them there until they died or agreed to forfeit any pay they had accrued. It got even worse after 1815. Our teacher jumped straight from the defeat of Napoleon to the Indian Mutiny. Pretty much the only event we learned about that involved Empire and we all knew it was because the British had rewritten history to make the Indians look like monsters. Then it was straight onto 1914 were we learned about the evil Germans and how they were always up to something and thank god Britannia was on watch otherwise we might all have houses full of working appliances and Mercedes in the driveways. GCSE History was just a massive slagging off of the 'evils' of communism and fascism. Most of it boiled down to famines and lack of democracy. The exact things the British/French/Americans were forcing on their colonial subjects. Then we learnt how Britain single handedly beat Hitler. No mention of how Mein Kampf praises the British Empire, no mention of Hitler being an Anglophile, no mention of the Red Army who took on 80% of every tank/plane/gun produced by Germany. At one point they gloat about their empire containing a quarter of the world, next they say they were alone and dont mention the human shields from their colonies. We're told about Japanese brutality in Burmese POW camps. Ironically there is no mention of the camps that Britain had in Burma for the previous century. You're told about how Germany built railways in Poland for genocide and war, but at the same time Sikhs should be grateful for the railways built in Punjab by the British. So on and so forth. Half the time the teachers tried rushing through it hoping no one would ask questions and just accept everything being thrown at them. I hope I am around in 20 years time to see what the first generation to have gone through Gove's system look like. I'm giggling already. Having said that the new history syllabus looks like the kind of stuff our coconuts believe anyway.

So I read and asked around and there is no mention of the Ethiopia incident. Either someone made it up or people are getting a bit carried away. Whilst researching, it turns out that Yogi Bhajan told his followers that Guru Nanak went to Sri Lanka on the back of a blue whale. It's such a shame that Sikhs cant see past all the bs and just focus on what Guru Nanak did rather than where he went or how he got there.

The fact that the Sikh/Punjabi Light Infantry were made of the so called lower castes as well as tharkans forming the bulk of the sappers and mechanics/railway workers is telling of who the real lapdogs were - the Sikhs. Ironically the vast majority of freedom fighters were Sikhs from Jatt backgrounds too. Strange no? Maybe this is because Jatts form the bulk of Sikhs so therefore are the ones doing everything good or bad in far larger numbers. If this is really a genetic thing (which would make you both casteists) then it doesnt say much for our future or all the converts who should also display their ethnic characteristics over the top of Sikhi... We always have this stupid discussion. If you want to talk about collaboration and who licked who's arse the most, lets have it out. But lets study it a bit more than just pointing fingers at each other and accusing each other of liking the taste of shit more.

Maybe it'll be like one of those science fiction stories where a robot faced with two conflicting choices overloads their brain and explodes. To be honest for a lot of these old fogeys, their brains went a long time ago. I am not expecting you draw up lists of all 400,000 Sikhs here and to go round their houses and argue with them until they agree with you. Tell your family, tell your friends, let those who want to get involved be stupid. For real, if you think the EDL give a damn about 'Justice for 84' or can even do something about it if they could, or you want to join the UAF to do that typical face saving to preserve our 'status' in the wider community then just bugger off and catch whatever your new bed partners carry. Yeah, I've long suspected Dal is really a gorah. Man is hella racist towards us brown folk lol. BTW which town/s did your family live in the UK if you dont mind me asking?

Sikhs have already talked to them and basically been told that they arent interested in things like Bhullar, Rajaona or Justice for 84 as those are 'sectarian issues'. The reasoning for supporting them is that if we arent with them then we are Nazi loving nobodies. Not exactly endearing is it. You'd have to have your eyes glued shut not to see the haughtiness and champagne socialism the Left has, especially towards Sikhs. Where was the mighty Left when the grooming was going on in the last decade? Oh wait, sulleh votes count more in certain areas. Throwing our weight en masse behind UAF will end badly as they wont give us anything. Neither will the EDL. Best not to get involved. It is a sectarian english issue after all. .

Sounds like something the Jews would do. Smartening up their kids and at the same time giving them a good dose of community. As Borat would say 'Very Nice!'. This isnt about being insular, but just because eating langar is for all doesnt mean everything else is. I guess the teacher would have the discretion to see troublemakers and get them turfed out. If you've seen some of the monitoring of sulleh and the internet honey traps, you would know what I mean, they love this kind of stuff - Chinese people dont tend to be like that. It also depends on the area the Gurdwara/Hall is in.

As long as you get qualified volunteers and some other resources that shouldnt be a problem. Having some old lady just telling everyone to read their books wont cut it. You also have to think about who will be let into these classes. Sulleh would love to come along and chirps with girls or be stupid to drag everyone to their level in their version of classroom jihad. It may be controversial but if these lessons were only open to ethnic Sikhs and mixed race kids it would go a long way to nurturing that inclusive group feeling. I doubt the Jews let it anyone. But I can see the bleeding hearts getting emotional about this.

I think those other guys were probably on their way to the other protest. Probably why they had their heads covered. I know that we arent going to be the EDL lapdogs for obvious reasons, but the UAF can be just as bad. Just because they are left wing doesnt mean they are fighting our corner. As the EDL were squaring off against the UAF, the UAF went behind the Sikh protest and threw bottles at the EDL. They knew what they were doing and were trying to get Sikhs caught in the middle. The left in this country has as many closet racists as the right and many more who have no love of Sikhs. We have to be wary of the typical guilt tripping, shaming and quasi-equality they come out with to get us on side before ditching us after we've outlived our usefulness.

I had to go to my pindh a couple of months ago to visit a relative. There were a couple there. Plenty in Phagwara too. Wasnt really expecting that many.

Nah, I tried goat milk once and it was disgusting so I decided to just stick to blue top. People have recommended buffalo milk to me as well as other ones like almond milk but I thought that's just what people like as they're Italian or our lot who believe in that rubbish about Asians not being suited to dairy products. I never had any problems or health issues with normal milk so it's not something I've looked into too deeply.

Seeing as China has modernised and isnt so receptive of foreigners as they used to be it's no surprise these lot have now set their eyes on India. You wouldnt believe the number of goreh there are in Punjab.

The book on Hari Singh Nalwa by Vanit Nalwa is very good. As is the First Anglo-Sikh War book by Amarpal S Sidhu. War, Culture and Society in Early Modern South Asia, 1740-1849 by Kaushik Roy is supposed to be good as well, but I havent read that one.

If you live near an Italian food shop or Southern European store in London then you might find buffalo milk there, maybe even cheaper than the UK produced stuff.