~! Danger of Bhausaria Mindset in the Panth !~

[jaikaara]

Kaur is a 'apbransh ' of Kunwar which was used by Rajput females along with their name ..Kunwar means prince.

Mata Sahib 'Devaa' is used these days and so is Mata Sahib 'Kaur' was Mata Sahib Devi is what i have heard .

Another important aspect of 'Bhasauria' mindset is their popularisation of not only the wearing of a keski for females but also making 'Kaur' second name for amritdhari females compulsory as well. No Rahitnama or document to my knowledge mentions the need for females to append the epithet ''Kaur' to female first name. We do not see any evidence of command of tenth Guruji in this regard although there are injunctions for adopting 'Singh' second names for male amritdharis. It is only in the Rahit statement of the Panch Khalsa Diwan of Bhasaur that we see injunction to give Singh second name to males and Kaur to male initiates. We are aware that Kaur female Sikh names began to appear around 1750 AD in families of Misl heads. However there is no evidence that these females had taken Khande di Pahul or Kirpan da Amrit or for that matter were given Kaur name at birth and no Amrit at all.
It is not surprising that Jat rulers of Rajsthan who had marital relationships with Sikh Maharajas have to this day female names of their daughters with Kaur second names.
Till the end of 19th century most ordinary sikh families with Singh male names had no females with Kaur second names. Mostly ruling Sikh families had Kaur females in their familes, not the ordinary Skhs.
Baba Ram Singh Namdhari for the first is known to have initiated Sikh females at par with males in 958 at village Siarhd in Malwa area. However, the female names after being baptised stay as original without any Kaur appended to first name. His letters written to these baptised females from Exile in Burma have no Kaur epithet appended to their first name.

[BhagatSingh]

So Mata Bhag Kaur is really Mai Bhago?

Did women go through amrit sanchar?

[Anandpuria]

There are as mentioned above, examples of females with Kaur second name before 1699 as well as after 1699. However, it is hard to find initiation by Khande di Pahul. At all the Takhats females were given 'Kirpan da Amrit, in which a single Gurmukh Sikh prepares and delivers Amrit with a small kirpan and does not recite all the Banis specified for Khande de Amrit. The blade of the Kirpan is not used but the handle.

At Hazoor Sahib and Patna Sahib this is the practice I believe even now. In Rahitnama Prem Sumarg, for a female, after Khande da Amrit epithet 'Devi' is suggested to be appended to her first name.

The Khalsa Dharam Shastar a large Rahitnama document prepared by Avtar Singh Vahiriya of the Amritsar Singh Sabha headed by Khem Singh Bedi gives details of the Kirpan da Amrit for females.

[Anandpuria]

Bhagat Singh ji

Not before 1857, when Baba Ram initiated females giving them Khande di Pahul for the first time. Others like Bhasaur and other Singh Sabhas began giving Khande di Pahul to females as well, identical with males. Unlike Baba Ram Singh who did not ask second name Kaur to be given to baptised females, Singh Sabha Sikhs followed Bhasaur injunction to give Kaur name to baptised females from then on from the beginning of twentieth century

[kdsingh80]

Bhagat Singh ji

Not before 1857, when Baba Ram initiated females giving them Khande di Pahul for the first time. Others like Bhasaur and other Singh Sabhas began giving Khande di Pahul to females as well, identical with males. Unlike Baba Ram Singh who did not ask second name Kaur to be given to baptised females, Singh Sabha Sikhs followed Bhasaur injunction to give Kaur name to baptised females from then on from the beginning of twentieth century

There are as mentioned above, examples of females with Kaur second name before 1699 as well as after 1699. However, it is hard to find initiation by Khande di Pahul. At all the Takhats females were given 'Kirpan da Amrit, in which a single Gurmukh Sikh prepares and delivers Amrit with a small kirpan and does not recite all the Banis specified for Khande de Amrit. The blade of the Kirpan is not used but the handle.

At Hazoor Sahib and Patna Sahib this is the practice I believe even now. In Rahitnama Prem Sumarg, for a female, after Khande da Amrit epithet 'Devi' is suggested to be appended to her first name.

The Khalsa Dharam Shastar a large Rahitnama document prepared by Avtar Singh Vahiriya of the Amritsar Singh Sabha headed by Khem Singh Bedi gives details of the Kirpan da Amrit for females.

These type of posts really surprise me .Large number of of orthodox sikhs believe that they are following gurmatt but actuaaly they are following customs which were introduced in 19th century

[Koi]

There are as mentioned above, examples of females with Kaur second name before 1699 as well as after 1699. However, it is hard to find initiation by Khande di Pahul. At all the Takhats females were given 'Kirpan da Amrit, in which a single Gurmukh Sikh prepares and delivers Amrit with a small kirpan and does not recite all the Banis specified for Khande de Amrit. The blade of the Kirpan is not used but the handle.

At Hazoor Sahib and Patna Sahib this is the practice I believe even now. In Rahitnama Prem Sumarg, for a female, after Khande da Amrit epithet 'Devi' is suggested to be appended to her first name.

The Khalsa Dharam Shastar a large Rahitnama document prepared by Avtar Singh Vahiriya of the Amritsar Singh Sabha headed by Khem Singh Bedi gives details of the Kirpan da Amrit for females.

Would it be possible for you to post the original text here?

Many thanks

[BhagatSingh]

Bhagat Singh ji

Not before 1857, when Baba Ram initiated females giving them Khande di Pahul for the first time. Others like Bhasaur and other Singh Sabhas began giving Khande di Pahul to females as well, identical with males. Unlike Baba Ram Singh who did not ask second name Kaur to be given to baptised females, Singh Sabha Sikhs followed Bhasaur injunction to give Kaur name to baptised females from then on from the beginning of twentieth century

Tell me more. Tell me about the changes that happened in the sikh community from pre-British Raj to post-British Raj.

[savinderpalsingh]

yes its mai bhago not mata bhag kaur

the senior kid of a king is called "Tikka sahib" who is to proceed and be next king

Kaur is for his 2nd kid , who has rights to everything but rulling .

thats why maiyan are called Kaur as 2nd kid, it does not mean princess in any way

i was just reading this is hazuri maya prabodh , nicely written and explained

Edited November 12, 2014 by savinderpalsingh

[savinderpalsingh]

There are as mentioned above, examples of females with Kaur second name before 1699 as well as after 1699. However, it is hard to find initiation by Khande di Pahul. At all the Takhats females were given 'Kirpan da Amrit, in which a single Gurmukh Sikh prepares and delivers Amrit with a small kirpan and does not recite all the Banis specified for Khande de Amrit. The blade of the Kirpan is not used but the handle.

At Hazoor Sahib and Patna Sahib this is the practice I believe even now. In Rahitnama Prem Sumarg, for a female, after Khande da Amrit epithet 'Devi' is suggested to be appended to her first name.

The Khalsa Dharam Shastar a large Rahitnama document prepared by Avtar Singh Vahiriya of the Amritsar Singh Sabha headed by Khem Singh Bedi gives details of the Kirpan da Amrit for females.

is it possible to view khalsa dharam shastar by avtar singh vahiriya ? online?

Edited November 12, 2014 by savinderpalsingh

[Anandpuria]

savinderpalsingh ji

I am sorry to say that I gave the name of the document wrongly as 'Khalsa Dharam Shastar'. The correct name of this book is 'Sikh Dharam Shastar'. I have given here below a paragraph refusing Khande di Pahul to females. There are several pages given and also footnotes on this topic.

Avtar Singh Vahiriya

Sikh Dharam Shastar, Part III, page 122

12. ਖੰਡੇ ਦੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਦਾ ਅਧਿਕਾਰੀ ਕੌਣ ਹੈ

(15) ਸੰਸਾਰ ਪੁਰ ਢਾਈ ਜਾਤਾਂ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਜੂਨ ਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਇਕ ਪੁਰਖਿਆਂ ਦੀ ਜਾਤ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਦੂਜੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਜਾਤ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਅੱਧੀ ਜਾਤ ਨਿਪੁੰਸਕਾਂ ਦੀ ਮੰਨੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ । ਪਰ ਇਹ ਕਿਸੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ। ਅਸਲ ਮਰਦਾਂ ਤੇ ਤੀਵੀਂਆਂ ਦੀ ਦੋਵੇਂ ਜਾਤਾਂ ਹਨ ਸੋ ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦਹੁਆਂ ਜਾਤਾਂ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਆਈਨੀ ਫੌਜਾਂ (ਰੈਗੂਲਰ ਆਰਮੀ)ਵਿਚ ਭਰਤੀ ਹੋਕਰ ਜੁੱਧ ਜੰਗ ਦਾ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਕੇਵਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਮਾਤ੍ਰ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਦਿਤਾ ਹੈ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਦਿਤਾ ਕਿਉਂ ਜੋ ਮਰਦ ਦੇ ਮਰਦਊਪਣੇ ਤੋਂ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਪਣਾ ਵਿਰੁੱਧ ਹੈ। ਆਈਨੀ ਫੌਜੀ ਜੰਗੀ ਬਰਦੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਪਹਿਰਨਾ ਤੇ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਦਾ ਕਮਰਕਸਾ ਕਰਕੇ ਸਨੱਧਬੱਧ ਹੋ ਸਿਪਾਹੀ ਬਣ ਕਰ ਜੁੱਧਾਂ ਜੰਗਾਂ ਦੇ ਆਖਾੜੇ ਮੰਡਣ ਦਾ ਕੇਵਲ ਮਰਦਾਂ ਦਾ ਹੀ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਅਰਥਾਤ ਸਿਪਾਹੀ ਬਣਨਾ ਮਰਦਾਂ ਦਾ ਹੀ ਕੰਮ ਹੈ ਤੀਵੀਂਆਂ ਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ। ਸੋ ਖੰਡੇ ਦੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਦੇਕਰ ਸਿਪਾਹੀ ਬਣਾਉਣਾ ਹੋਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਕਰ ਕਾਇਰ, ਕੁਰੂਪ, ਨਿਰਬਲ, ਨਾਮ ਦੇ ਮਰਦ ਭੀ, ਸੂਰਬੀਰ, ਵਰਿਆਮ, ਸੁੰਦ੍ਰ, ਅਤੇ ਸੱਚੇ ਮਰਦ ਸਜ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ। ਸੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਦੇ ਜਾਮੇ ਨੂੰ ਇਸ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਦੇਣ ਦਾ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ ਅਰ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਕੋਈ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਪੰਥ ਵਿਚ ਪਿਛਲੀਆਂ ਦੋ ਸਦੀਆਂ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਪਾਟੀ ਪਈ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਖੰਡੇ ਦੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਦੇਣ ਦੀ ਯੋਗਤਾ ਹੈ। ਖੰਡੇ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਛਕਾਉਣ ਦਾ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਪੁਰਸ਼ ਹੀ ਰਖਦੇ ਹਨ।

The book on Panjab Digital Library can be accessed by following 'Advanced Search' tab and selecting books and then searching for the title or the author etc. The author surname in its database is wrongly spelt as 'Vahiliys' instead of 'Vahiriyia'.

. The copy is rather old and some earlier pages are missing. However, information about Khande di Pahul is in the Part III at around page 120. I have given here a paragraph about the refusal to give Khande di Pahul to females:

Incidentally, Hazoori Maryada Prabodh has an article in Panjabi by a former Jathedar of the Takhat, I think his name is Joginder Singh. He argues against Khande di Pahul to females and occasionally quotes Sikh Dharam Shastar to justify his argument.. I had read this article at the website amritworld long ago.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Anandpuria

[savinderpalsingh]

thanks got the book

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/displayPageContent.jsp?ID=2958&page=3&CategoryID=1&Searched=W3GX

[Guest]

keski is one of 5 k many rehitwan kaur had keski bhausar asked maaphi he was tankhi but on keski he and bhai sahib bhai randhir singh bought tat sikhi back in khalsa too much hindu mat got into sikhi too many woman like hindu without head covered. panth need strict rule by panch khalsa jatha akj jatha now to clean all the gand kanjarpuna in the panth.

[Guest Orochimaru]

Guest how old r u 

[Singh123456777]

http://sarbattkhalsa.weebly.com/kes-is-kakkar-not-keski.html

Read that article

 

From Sri dasam Granth sahib

Nishan-e-Sikhi ast in Panj har kaf Hargiz na bashad azin panj muaf Kara, Karad, Kacha, Kanga bi dan, Bina kesh kes hech ast jumla nishan.