The 4 yugs and 4 legs of dharma

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[Matheen]

Veer Ji, if you go to to the link below, you can listen to Katha by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa - it's been split into each Ang so very easy to find what you want as long as you have the Ang no.

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/k...hindran_wale%29

[golestan]

Be Name Khodavand

1. Regarding the motive of Dharma having four legs it is found in may ancient classics of Indian religious literature. Here are some quotes from the Bhagavatapurana:

My dear King, in the beginning, during Satya-yuga, the age of truth, religion is present with all four of its legs intact and is carefully maintained by the people of that age. These four legs of powerful religion are truthfulness, mercy, austerity and charity.

The people of Satya-yuga are for the most part self-satisfied, merciful, friendly to all, peaceful, sober and tolerant. They take their pleasure from within, see all things equally and always endeavor diligently for spiritual perfection.

In Tretâ-yuga each leg of religion is gradually reduced by one quarter by the influence of the four pillars of irreligion-lying, violence, dissatisfaction and quarrel.

In the Tretâ age people are devoted to ritual performances and severe austerities. They are not excessively violent or very lusty after sensual pleasure. Their interest lies primarily in religiosity, economic development and regulated sense gratification, and they achieve prosperity by following the prescriptions of the three Vedas. Although in this age society evolves into four separate classes, O King, most people are brâhmanas.

In Dvâpara-yuga the religious qualities of austerity, truth, mercy and charity are reduced to one half by their irreligious counterparts-dissatisfaction, untruth, violence and enmity.

In the Dvâpara age people are interested in glory and are very noble. They devote themselves to the study of the Vedas, possess great opulence, support large families and enjoy life with vigor. Of the four classes, the kshatriyas and brâhmanas are most numerous.

In the age of Kali only one fourth of the religious principles remains. That last remnant will continuously be decreased by the ever-increasing principles of irreligion and will finally be destroyed.

In the Kali age people tend to be greedy, ill-behaved and merciless, and they fight one another without good reason. Unfortunate and obsessed with material desires, the people of Kali-yuga are almost all s'ûdras and barbarians.

Bhagavatapurana 12:18-25

The idea is that the practice of dharma decreases with each new age.

2. As for your query about the Bhattan de svayye, these verses were sung by the Bhatts in honour of the Gurus of the time. They relay teh belief that the Gurus were the avatars of their time and that Rama, Krishna and the other avataras were past manifestations of the Gurus. This of course bring the question as to why these same avataras are being insulted in dasam bani but that is a different issue.

I hope this was of help

kind regards

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[golestan]

Which claims?

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[golestan]

Well it's quite simple: read it. After all it's a sacred text for Sikhs.

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[golestan]

Be name Khoda

I am not sarcastic. I don't see any sarcasm in encouraging a Sikh in reading his holy texts. Where is the sarcasm in that?

[Matheen]

They relay teh belief that the Gurus were the avatars of their time and that Rama, Krishna and the other avataras were past manifestations of the Gurus.

You got this from the Bhattan de Swaiyye?

edit: Ok, I've seen the English translation. Who does these things?! It is saying nothing of the sort.

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[golestan]

Be name Khoda

Leaving aside the usual personal attacks the argument is actually quite simple. Whilst the Adi Granth provides passages in praise of avatars such as Krishna and Rama to the point of saying that the Gurus were these avataras in previous lives, the Dasam Granth contains passages, specially the Chaubis Avatar section, that are quite derogative regarding these same avataras. If you would care to read the Dasam Granth you might realize what I am talking about.

kind regards

Bahadur Ali Shah

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[Matheen]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

to the point of saying that the Gurus were these avataras in previous lives,

Where is this claimed? Don't say Bhatta de Swaiyye because it doesn't, except in dodgy translations.

Please can you, if possible, not include the BIG images you have at the end of your posts

Or at least make them smaller. The site can't handle the current size - I think you can adjust the size before you post.

[golestan]

Be name Khoda

1. The bhattan de svayye are quite clear about avtaravada and it has nothing to do with translations.