Claim Of Guru Nanak?

[Mr Sardar]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2299609665370606339#

 

Dr. Sir Mohd. Iqbal said, after reading Japji, "that Guru Nanak understood Islamic faith better than any learned Muslim." source:http://www.sikhreview.org/pdf/march2003/pdf-files/editor.pdf this quote is said quite alot

 

 

For those who are well-versed with gurbani and it's style see anything similar:

 

 

The real work belongs to someone who desires God

and has severed himself from every other work.

The rest are like children who play together until it gets dark

for these few short days.

Or like someone who awakes and springs up, still drowsy,

and then is lulled back to sleep (...)

If you are wise, you, yourself,

will tear up your slumber by the roots,

like the thirsty man who heard the noise of the water.

God says to you, "I am the sound of water

in the ears of the thirsty;

I am rain falling from heaven.

Spring up, lover, show some excitement!

How can you hear the sound of water and then fall back asleep!"

 

Rumi, Mathnawi VI, 586-592, quoted in: Helminski, Kabir (2000). The Rumi Collection. P.63.

 

By God, don't linger

in any spiritual benefit you have gained,

but yearn for more - like one suffering from illness

whose thirst for water is never quenched.

This Divine Court is the Plane of the Infinite.

 

Rumi, Mathnawi III, 1960, quoted in: Helminski, Kabir (2000). The Rumi Collection. P.96.

 

The thirsty man is moaning, "O delicious water!"

The water is calling, "Where is the one who will drink me?"

This thirst in our souls is the magnetism of the Water:

We are Its, and It is ours.

 

Rumi, Mathnawi III, 4399, quoted in: Helminski, Kabir (2000). The Rumi Collection. P.108.

 

There is a similarity between shabad hazare http://www.3ho.org/kundalini-yoga/tantric-numerology/personal-sadhana/shabad-hazaray.pdf and even one of rumis works which I once came across.

 

A modern day sufi wrote about Guru Nanak aswell here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/24369178/Tasawwuf-the-Spirit-of-Sufism

 

I personally believe to proove this we would have to go or ask people there in egypt, syria, and other islamic countries to show us what nanak did there was he someone who started his own faith or a sufi who practiced the doctrine of islam. Also sufis do tend to use the mystic works of previous sufis before them aswell. If you present gurbani to a muslim they will say that this is Islam the only biggest difference being reincarnation a teaching which alot of sikhs are doubting if we can proove it then why not teach it to muslims, and there are sufis who did believe in reincarnation aswell. If Guru Nanak wanted to start his own religion why would he not preach it to those people rather then create mosques and teach islam to them maybe from rumi's perspective.

[Mr Sardar]

 

Due to the moghuls the hindus had this "allergy" of muslims so we would have never understood sufism. Many sufis tried however failed and muslims in those times had an "allergy" to hindus so they would have not understood bhagti vaishniaism however the shabads which maharaj sang was subjective to those set of people, but they were more distinct from the bhagati movement quite a different from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara

[Mr Sardar]

"Langar, a Persian word, means 'an almshouse', 'an asylum for the poor and the destitute', 'a public kitchen kept by a great man for his followers and dependants, holy persons and the needy.' Scholars trace the word langar to Sanskrit analgrh (cooking place). In Persian, the specific term langar has been in use in an identical sense. In addition to the word itself, the institution of langar is also traceable in the Persian tradition. Langars were a common feature of the Sufi centres in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. Even today

shrines of Sufi saints, run langars, like Khwaja Mu'in ud-Din Chishti's at Ajmer, Khwaja Qutub ud-Din Bakhtiar Kaki and Nizamuddin Auliya's at Delhi.

 

Serving of food has been a rich tradition in Indian and Persian Sufism, especially of the Chishti Order. There is extensive use of food imagery and metaphor in Sufi writings. Sugar and other sweet foods represent the sweetness of piety and community with God, while salt symbolizes purity and incorruptibility. Food is regarded as sacred and is treated reverentially. Through the pronouncement of the Provider's name during the food-making process, the food is imbued with spiritual and healing power, which is shared by those who eat the food. The transformation of the raw food to finished food is used as an analogy for Sufi spiritual development.

 

The virtuous are those who give food — however great be their want of it — unto the needy, the orphan, and the captive, saying, in their hearts, "We feed you for the sake of God alone: we desire no recompense from you, nor thanks: behold, we stand in awe of our Sustainer." "

 

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22308565@N07/2150577092/

 

 

Also to add this sakhi which is seen in many places, which many sants mahapurkh refute most jathas give the maryada to be veggeterian when you take amrit:

 

When the Guru visited Kurukshetra in Haryana, a big fair was being held at the holy tank to celebrate the solar eclipse. There were a large number of pilgrims all over the country. On his arrival at the fair, Guru Nanak had Mardana cook them a meat dish of a deer presented to them by one of his followers. Upon finding that meat was being cooked on the holy premises, a large angry crowd gathered in anger to attack the Guru for what they thought amounted to sacrilege (Bhai Mani Singh, Gyan Ratnavali, pg. 123). Upon hearing the angry crowd Guru Nanak responded;

 

"Only fools argue whether to eat meat or not. They don't understand truth nor do they meditate on it. Who can define what is meat and what is plant? Who knows where the sin lies, being a vegetarian or a non- vegetarian?" (Malhar)

 

Also Bhai Mardana a muslim remained always with Guru Nanak. When the quran says:

 

"O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them. Qur'an (3:118)

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/009-friends-with-christians-jews.htm

 

Additionally we are today from studying janamsakhis also questioning the existence of bhai bala and now many sikhs are saying there was no bhai bala but a later addition by hindus to hindunize the faith. If such a thing could happen what other forms of alteration in our history are possible?

 

http://www.sikhism101.com/node/231

 

 

If a muslim was to tell us Guru Nanak is a muslim and or sikhism has been created out of Islam it would offend us all but can we really debate that? We could Say Islam was created from pre-existing religions before it.

 

Muhammad's haddith says that heaven has been made haram for everyone except those who follow him. So anyone not following his path will go to hell.

 

India has always had a problem with people taking there women from the time of ram and sita. These moghuls would capture women this is what created some of the biggest tension between sikhs (hindus) of that time and muslims which even led to the creation of the sikh empire ontop of afghanistan. The whole issues of concubines began as a means of looking after women who had been captured in war where compared to other factions who would rape women.

 

 

God has forbidden the believers from backbiting

 

O you who believe! Avoid much suspicion, in deeds some suspicions are sins. And spy not neither backbite one another. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would hate it (so hate backbiting). And fear God, verily, God is the one who accepts repentance, Most Merciful. Quran (49: 12)

 

 

 

ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਰ ਮਲੁ ਮੁਖ ਸੁਧੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਚੰਡਾਲੁ ॥

पर निंदा पर मलु मुख सुधी अगनि क्रोधु चंडालु ॥

Par ninḏā par mal mukẖ suḏẖī agan kroḏẖ cẖandāl.

Slandering others is putting the filth of others into your own mouth. The fire of anger is the outcaste who burns dead bodies at the crematorium.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji SGGS ANG 15

 

 

Islam also having listed satan as an enemy also talks about Nafs, sufis always focus on the nafs.

 

Characteristics of nafs

 

In its primitive state the nafs has seven heads that must be defeated

 

False pride (Takabbur)

Greed (Hirs)

Envy (Hasad)

Lust (Shahwah)

Backbiting (Gheebah)

Stinginess (Bokhl)

Malice (Keena)

 

Gurbani refers to Indian theology of 5 thieves kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, hankar

lust, anger, greed, wordly attachment and pride/ego.

[Mr Sardar]

I think this is what rejected islam.

 

ਆਸਾ ॥

आसा ॥

Āsā.

Aasaa:

 

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕਹਾ ਤੇ ਆਏ ਕਿਨਿ ਏਹ ਰਾਹ ਚਲਾਈ ॥

हिंदू तुरक कहा ते आए किनि एह राह चलाई ॥

Hinḏū ṯurak kahā ṯe ā▫e kin eh rāh cẖalā▫ī.

Where have the Hindus and Muslims come from? Who put them on their different paths?

 

ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਚਿ ਬਿਚਾਰਿ ਕਵਾਦੇ ਭਿਸਤ ਦੋਜਕ ਕਿਨਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੧॥

दिल महि सोचि बिचारि कवादे भिसत दोजक किनि पाई ॥१॥

Ḏil mėh socẖ bicẖār kavāḏe bẖisaṯ ḏojak kin pā▫ī. ||1||

Think of this, and contemplate it within your mind, O men of evil intentions. Who will go to heaven and hell? ||1||

 

ਕਾਜੀ ਤੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਤੇਬ ਬਖਾਨੀ ॥

काजी तै कवन कतेब बखानी ॥

Kājī ṯai kavan kaṯeb bakẖānī.

O Qazi, which book have you read?

 

ਪੜ੍ਹਤ ਗੁਨਤ ਐਸੇ ਸਭ ਮਾਰੇ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਖਬਰਿ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

पड़्हत गुनत ऐसे सभ मारे किनहूं खबरि न जानी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Paṛĥaṯ gunaṯ aise sabẖ māre kinhūʼn kẖabar na jānī. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Such scholars and students have all died, and none of them have discovered the inner meaning. ||1||Pause||

 

ਸਕਤਿ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਕਰਿ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕਰੀਐ ਮੈ ਨ ਬਦਉਗਾ ਭਾਈ ॥

सकति सनेहु करि सुंनति करीऐ मै न बदउगा भाई ॥

Sakaṯ sanehu kar sunaṯ karī▫ai mai na baḏ▫ugā bẖā▫ī.

Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny.

 

ਜਉ ਰੇ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਮੋਹਿ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕਰੈਗਾ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਕਟਿ ਜਾਈ ॥੨॥

जउ रे खुदाइ मोहि तुरकु करैगा आपन ही कटि जाई ॥२॥

Ja▫o re kẖuḏā▫e mohi ṯurak karaigā āpan hī kat jā▫ī. ||2||

If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. ||2||

 

ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕੀਏ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਜੇ ਹੋਇਗਾ ਅਉਰਤ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੀਐ ॥

सुंनति कीए तुरकु जे होइगा अउरत का किआ करीऐ ॥

Sunaṯ kī▫e ṯurak je ho▫igā a▫uraṯ kā ki▫ā karī▫ai.

If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman?

 

ਅਰਧ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਛੋਡੈ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਹੀ ਰਹੀਐ ॥੩॥

अरध सरीरी नारि न छोडै ता ते हिंदू ही रहीऐ ॥३॥

Araḏẖ sarīrī nār na cẖẖodai ṯā ṯe hinḏū hī rahī▫ai. ||3||

She is the other half of a man's body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu. ||3||

 

ਛਾਡਿ ਕਤੇਬ ਰਾਮੁ ਭਜੁ ਬਉਰੇ ਜੁਲਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੈ ਭਾਰੀ ॥

छाडि कतेब रामु भजु बउरे जुलम करत है भारी ॥

Cẖẖād kaṯeb rām bẖaj ba▫ure julam karaṯ hai bẖārī.

Give up your holy books, and remember the Lord, you fool, and stop oppressing others so badly.

 

ਕਬੀਰੈ ਪਕਰੀ ਟੇਕ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਤੁਰਕ ਰਹੇ ਪਚਿਹਾਰੀ ॥੪॥੮॥

कबीरै पकरी टेक राम की तुरक रहे पचिहारी ॥४॥८॥

Kabīrai pakrī tek rām kī ṯurak rahe pacẖihārī. ||4||8||

Kabeer has grasped hold of the Lord's Support, and the Muslims have utterly failed. ||4||8||

 

 

In islam the koran has said: "Why are not signs sent down to him from his Lord? Say: "The signs are only with Allah (qul innama al-ayatu AAinda Allahi), and I am ONLY a plain warner (wa-innama ana natheerun mubeenun)." S. 29:50 Hilali-Khan

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/only_warner.html

 

 

"And, indeed We have sent Messengers before you (O Muhammad «peace be upon him»); of some of them We have related to you their story, and of some We have not related to you their story." (40:78)

 

"And We sent not before you (O Muhammad «peace be upon him») but men to whom We inspired, so ask the people of the Reminder (Scriptures) if you do not know. And We did not create them (the Messengers, with) bodies that ate not food, nor were they immortal." (21:8)

 

"Verily, those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His Messengers saying, ‘We believe in some but reject others,’ and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment." (4:150-151)

 

"Verily, We have inspired you (O Muhammad «peace be upon him») as We inspired Nooh (Noah) and the Prophets after him."

 

(4:163)

 

"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets." (33:40)

 

The sufis believed that krishna and buddha were prophets hence they took there teachings and created mysticism from that creating there own poetry. So bhagat bikhian did jaap of har he believed lord krishna was a prophet. As did sheikh farid take aspects of jesus gospels incorporated into his bani. Baba Kabir rejected islam and followed guru ramanand as he seemed to dislike the idea of concubines. I know these things may strike offensive but alot of this aspect of borderline nature of sufism of sikhism has confused alot of sikhs in majority and the panthic scholars themselves do not fully understand so it is better that we look into it to finalise the understand for future generations before muslim preachers take advantage of our lack of knowledge of this subject and convert us and if we are wrong which we all doubt then to claim a separate religion from what the sufis are saying then we can atleast know why. Also did the sufis keep concubines? Additionally the word turk generally reffered to people from uzbeikstan, turkey those who were cold blooded killers and rapists such as the moghuls these people also killed many muslims unless at that point of time the two terms were synonymous. Sorry that statement I made earlier I forgot to state is not my own it was the ahmedia kalifas statement I am aware maharaj says do not call the vedas or katebs false, false is he who calls them false and does not contemplate on there spirtual knowledge. Alot of us are bitter with islam after what jhangir, aurangzeb and muhammad ali jinnah after creation of pakistan did but even forceful conversion to islam is not allowed for them however if as sikhs we are going to move forward with our own religion we have to at least establish dialogue of faiths so as to do our own parchar to them. Sorry the quote is slightly wrong bhul chuuk maaf karna.

[Mr Sardar]

http://jaiyan.khosa.org/a-research-paper-on-guru-nanak

 

 

"From Whom and From Where

Guru Nanak had six paths in which the goal at the end of the path was a union with God. McLeod (1968) describes this path as being, first, the interior religion: the emphasis on religion as an inward experience; second, loving devotion to God: love is the basic expression of religion; this is similar to the Bhakti movement within India at the time; third, nam simaran: the loving of the Name and not just simply the repeating of it; forth, natural results: a movement closer to God through meditation and to the final absorption of the man into Him; fifth, the ascent to higher and higher levels of understanding and experience, and lastly, the Ultimate: the blending of the individual light in the Light of God. This merging, or becoming at One with All There Is, is difficult to distinguish from some other teachings at the time; from Nath yogi’s and from some Sufi sources (McLeod, 1968, p. 207-226). Many scholars have indeed brought this up before; McLeod’s The Influence of Islam Upon The Thought of Guru Nanak seeks to look into what conclusions we can draw, if any, about an Islamic or Hindu influence upon Guru Nanak’s teachings and thoughts. Also, Nikky-Guninder Kaur Singh (1992) analyzes McLeod and points out that his main suggestion is that Guru Nanak’s thoughts were “strongly influenced by the Sant or Nirguna tradition of Northern India” (p. 342).

 

The Sant Tradition, according to McLeod (1968), was a combination of traditions which drew influence from Vaisnava Bhakti (divine love directed to one of the ancient incarnations of Visnu), tantric-yoga similar to the Nath sect of yogis, and Sufi orders. Singh (1992) states that McLeod does not emphasize the marginal influence of the Sufi order, but asserts that “it was this Sant tradition which provided the basis of Guru Nanak’s thought” (p. 342). Looking further into the actual writings of McLeod reveals that, yes, even though he believes that the most striking feature of Nanak’s religious environment throughout his life was that of the Bhakti movement, it “should not imply any denial of the originality of Guru Nanak’s thought” (McLeod, 1968, p. 316). His analysis goes deep into relating the specific teachings of Guru Nanak with those of Punjabi Sufi’s at the time, with whom the author points out were different from the Classical Sufi’s such as Junaid, Hallaj, Ghazali, and Rumi. McLeod also points out that if “this particular type of Sufism exercised an influence upon Guru Nanak, it would [have been] a mediated Sant influence rather than a distinctively Sufi contribution” (p. 317). For example, Guru Nanak’s discipline doctrine of nam simaran, as noted above, does not correspond to the Sufi technique of dhikr, or the repetition of the name Allah. Moreover, Guru Nanak’s doctrine of Hukam, discussed in the previous section, is obviously an Arabic word; however, that which it expresses is not (p. 313). It is obvious that within the society that Guru Nanak lived, he would have come across many different types of religious figures and ideas. So, it can be said that Guru Nanak was able to take what was around him and express it in a way that was unique to him."

 

 

http://www.haqqanisoul.com/forum/topics/guru-nanak-was-a-muslim

 

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/sikh/T39CRAD3PHADA9GBE

[Mithar]

We as Sikhs are indirectly following a proportion of haddiths of the prophet muhammad

Sarbat, please explain how are Sikhs following the Hadiths?

[laalsingh]

Are you doing it full time?

[Mr Sardar]

Question is through any history does it state Guru Nanak ever giving salat/namaz at all? He must have read the quran at least once.

 

http://www.haqqanisoul.com/forum/topics/guru-nanak-was-a-muslim?page=1&commentId=2963414%3AComment%3A84880&x=1#2963414Comment84880

 

That chola/juba has shahada and sura-al-fatiah which is similar to mool mantar.

 

In syria a mosque has been built where guru nanak went it is called walli hind

 

When he went to hindu places he got the hindus to stop doing idol worship with muslims he joined them more towards there own faith.

 

"It has been learned that a platform of Nanak Wali still exists in honour the vist of the Guru in the Suburban area of Cairo. [sikh soldiers] saw a platform towards the south of the town of Kaikai which was stated to be the place where the Master had met with the Sultan and that the Sikh soldiers had congregation and sacrement there".

 

Prof Chahal, - Sikh soldiers had fought in Egypt where they had reportedly found a stone in memory of Guru Nanak. Where is that stone and why didn’t they raise any such monument there?”

 

If it is proved that Guru Nanak had visited Turkey, then it would authenticate some Janamsakhis which claimed that after Mecca, the Sikh guru visited Egypt and then from Kahira, he went to Palestine, Syria and Turkey.

 

It is also believed that "from Arabia Guru Nanak reached Egypt and then travelled through North African countries."

 

The style of gurbani such as dohra is similar to sufis before him. Another thing would be is the verification of the gurgaddi of Guru angad dev ji where do we have it stated this occured sikhism from persian history refutes this event.

[Mr Sardar]

On 5/1/2011 at 6:58 PM, sarbatdapala said:

Okay as for aisha age that was something done in that time the age is disputed ask what age your great grandparents got married keep asking generation up and up and up it get's younger and younger. It sounds wrong but some of the guru sahiban married there wife when there wife was 11. Mass murderer he killed jews in wars, they were attacked- we would say he started it but other islamic scholars say they were attacked and defended themselves.

 

 

So if others do sin, that makes it okay to commit sin? what kind of logic is that? Oh, I forgot that is Islamic logic. Our Gurus were also living in a time period when pedophilia was common place. You say, the wives of our Guru were young, well so were the Gurus when they married. The age difference between the Gurus and their wives was only a few years if not the same age, that is not pedophilia. Not just our Gurus, even the founders of other religions did not commit pedophilia even though pedophilia was common during their time period. Buddha never committed pedophilia, Jesus never committed pedophilia. Mohammad did commit pedophilia.

 

 

On 5/1/2011 at 6:58 PM, sarbatdapala said:

If you ask a muslim about sikhs in guru gobind singh ji's time and sikh raj- they probably think we didn't like the idea islam does not allow drinking and as the punjabis we are we went to beat the living tatti out of them which is misunderstood history and are comparing sikhs of that time to those of this time who like to drink, do drugs, rave and do every act of hedonism/satanism and not many muslims have read sikh history and just like you don't expect a sikh to read islams history why would you expect a muslim to read ours. Even though guru sahib taught us to study other faiths. Most muslims have misunderstood islam just like most sikhs have and only take a few points away and there are alot of sikhs who think the meaning of sikhism is to kill muslims and hate muslims the only thing they see is the photos of shaheedi and see how sikhism is just about being against muslims.

 

 

I never mentioned Muslims of post Mohammad's period. I am mentioned Prophet Mohammaded directly and his actions. According to the Quran and Hadiths, Mohammaded was a pedophile, had dirty eyes towards women who were not his wives, was a murdering bandit, torturer, mass murderer of unarmed civilians, owner of slaves, approve prostitution, approve wife beating, kill anyone who leaves Islam, rape captured women and even approve captured women to be raped in front of their husbands.

 

 

On 5/1/2011 at 6:58 PM, sarbatdapala said:

Additionally mithar I contributed to your list of sources aswell about those things. The concubine thing was done in that time, hindus did it, christians did, jews did, everyone did it and the arabs were terrible- muslims say that they were supposed to stop it and claim they have been given a prescription to kill it down as well as slavery. Sikhs who went to east africa went mental with slavery, enslaved and raped kenyans what happens when those kenyans raise these matters with our descendants - will they accept sikhi? Sikhs did what aurangzeb did in east africa they took over the area converted people and took women. Or do we expect them to look into it and see that raping women was not allowed in sikhism. And as for slavery plus drinking these were skewed interpenetration of religion. Alot of muhammad's marriages were to very old women mainly alot were widows and provided a source of protection aswell. How many sikhs today would marry a widow even though there are no straight found strict prohibitions on polygamy. There is alot more on that stuff there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_wives

 

 

The concubine thing was done during the times of our Gurus as well, yet the Gurus never had any concubines. If everyone else owns a slave, does that make slavery okay in your eyes??? people during the times of our Gurus owned slaves, yet none of our Gurus were slave owners.

 

As for your claim that Sikhs were also slave traders or owners and rapers of slaves in Africa, show me proof of Sikhs owning slaves in Kenya or raping them. This is a lie. Like most Muslims, instead of owning up to your wrong doings, you point fingers at others in order the deflect the issue being discussed. The fact that Mohammaded raped a 9 year old girl who was playing with her doll during the Suhaag Raat will always prove he was not man of God. Further more, he also had a dirty eye for his own daughter in law Zainab. And this is the man you are defending and justifying??? Our Gurus never did any of those disgusting things. Our Gurus were the purest of beings ever born. They were the Jyot of Vaheguru.

 

 

On 5/1/2011 at 6:58 PM, sarbatdapala said:

Some of the history of sikh guru sahib from muslims is full of insults calling them a dakhu and sikhs would also steal from jizya tax during aurangzeb time to feed poor- aurangzeb went too far as well with poll tax. The system is that muslims have to pay 2.5% charity non-muslims pay less and are protected by muslims. Only muslims can join the army and protect those people offcourse this played out wrong in iran, afghanistan, pakistan, india and bangladesh probably even arabia these people destroyed the livelyhoods of everyone forcing them into islam. In terms of a forceful conversion in Islam it is not allowed to convert anyone to islam forcefully- aurangzeb was a forceful converter. In terms of someone leaving islam it is allowed however if they leave islam they have try to attack islam then they have to be executed.

 

There is criticism of marriage in sikhi from muslims here: http://www.islam-sikhism.info/fem/wife01.htm

 

 

Then how do you explain Mohammaded massacreing the Jews of the tribe of Banu Quraiza? they were given a choice to accept Islam or death. Yet they preferred to stay true to their own faith. Mohammaded ruthlessly had all of them beheaded, their wives and children were distributed amongst the Sahaba as slaves and sex slaves. This isn't Aurangzeb's history, this is prophet Mohammad's history which all Muslims agree to. While the Banu Quraiza were butchered by Mohammad's merciful justice, the other tribes escaped.

 

Also tell me, why did Mohammaed allow rape of captured women??? Guru Gobind Singh Jee never allowed rape of captured women. Infact he instructed Sikhs to not even think dirty thoughts about women even in a dream.

[Mr Sardar]

On 4/30/2011 at 11:06 AM, sarbatdapala said:

I remember someone said sikhi is better then islam because of even my displayname we have the tendency of sarbatdapala . Jesus taught this, buddha taught this even muhammad taught this at some points as well and krishna probably taught this aswell and sufis taught it as well.

 

No, prophet Mohammad did not teach this.

[Mr Sardar]

On 5/1/2011 at 9:32 AM, sarbatdapala said:

Those times muslims were even against the sufis. The amount of respect Guru Nanak has for islam even makes one think is he a muslim himself?

 

 

NO! you are the only one having these weird delusions of Guru Nanak Dev Jee being a Muslim. Instead of showing us Islamic sources, please show us direct in Gurbani where Guru Nanak Dev Jee says "Mohammad ur rasoolalaah". Surely if Guru Jee was a Muslim, he would have mentioned the name "Mohammad" even once in his Illahi Bani. But he has not mentioned him even once which only proves he gave Prophet Mohammad absolutely no importance. Going to Makkah does not make Guru Jee into a Muslim. Guru jee also went to the holy places of the HIndus, does that make him into a Hindu? Guru jee also went to Tibet, does that make him into a Tibetan Buddhist? the answer is NO! What you fail to realize is that Guru jee went all over the world to do Parchar of Gurmat.

 

Please listen to the Japji Sahib Katha done by Giani Takhur Singh jee for a deep and profound analysis of Guru Nanak Dev Jee and his Bani.

[Mr Sardar]

 

On 5/3/2011 at 8:40 PM, sarbatdapala said:

Also a muslim to quote once said ""Our prophet has said that a true Muslim is he by whose words and deeds not the least of his brother-men may ever come to any harm ..." from http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/knaebel3.html

 

Also as for the comments of mithar on disproving islam please construct a document for the entire sangat with quotes, references to all those points of disproof as well for sangat. Thing is I remembering reading that even the first generation of muslims doubted the prophethood of muhammad however agreed with alot of the things he taught and said even the monotheism so as a walliat he stands to be a true walli (saint mahapurkh however one with questioned attributes).

 

 

He may be a walli, saint Mahapurkh to the low Islamic standards. But Sikhs standards for what constitutes a Mahapurkh is very high. And in no way does Prophet Mohammaded fit the standards of what we consider to be a Mahapurkh.

[Mr Sardar]

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[Mr Sardar]

http://www.iuscanada.com/journal/articles/monument2006.pdf

article written in 2006 most sikhs have not gone to syria, palestine, israel, mecca to discover these sakhis.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0AwYlgpqcoUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=nanak+israel&source=bl&ots=o8Z18nrozK&sig=e7y8nd2SflMf-aMwJIGlSfdjlpM&hl=en&ei=L3G8Td2pBMeLhQfj0-HRBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=nanak%20israel&f=false

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/203-guru-nanak-a-false-prophet.html

How can we explain the similarities and are there any differences between Rumi and Guru Nanak Dev ji?

RUMI

Only Breath

Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu

Buddhist, sufi, or zen. Not any religion

or cultural system. I am not from the East

or the West, not out of the ocean or up

from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not

composed of elements at all. I do not exist,

am not an entity in this world or in the next,

did not descend from Adam and Eve or any

origin story. My place is placeless, a trace

of the traceless. Neither body or soul.

I belong to the beloved, have seen the two

worlds as one and that one call to and know,

first, last, outer, inner, only that

breath breathing human being.

From Essential Rumi

http://peacefulrivers.homestead.com/Rumipoetry1.html#anchor_13849

http://wwwnfiecomblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2009/04/masnavi-mawlana-jalaluddin-rumira.html

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[Guest zulu]

A Muslim belief is that the secret door of the Qaba will open for the last prophet; it opened for Guru Nanak Sahib ji. This is written in Bhai Gurdass ji's vaars. Also written in the vaars is that the Guru saw all teh swargs and naraks, while the prophet could only see a very limited number of them. When one can see everything, rejecting the limited view of someone who cannot see everything is no paap.

could you tell me were exactly this is written, sounds good to read!!

[Maha Singh]

The chapter on Guru Nanank Dev Ji in Panth Parkash also talks about the specific door at the Kabba opening for Maharaj.

[Mr Sardar]

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