dalsingh101 Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Okay guys, need some help translating the following two lines. The first represents the line as it is in the vaar (according to Prof. Sahib Singh), the second version is apparently a common mistaken interpretation. 1) ਗੁਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ 2) ਗੁਰ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਇਓ ਕਾਲ ਕੋ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ What does ਮਨਾਈ mean exactly? What is interesting is that Pandit Narain's steek has the line as follows: 3) ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਸ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ with the extra ਦਾਸ. He further elaborates: (ਉਸੀ) ਗੁਰੂ (ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਨੇ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਸਰੂਪ ਵਿਚ) ਖੰਡੇ (ਦਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕਾਉਣ) ਦੀ ਵਾਰੀ * ਕਾਲ (ਪੁਰਖ) ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ 'ਮਨਾਈ' ਕੀਤਾ ਸੀ। *ਕਾਲ ਪਦ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ, ਸਮਾਂ ਨਹੀਂ । ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ - ਅੰਤਿ ਕਰਤ ਸਭ ਜਗ ਕੋ ਕਾਲਾ ॥ अंति करत सभ जग को काला ॥ At time Thou destroyest the universe; ਨਾਮੁ ਕਾਲ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਜਗ ਡਾਲਾ ॥ नामु काल ता ते जग डाला ॥ Therefore the world hath named you KAL (the Destroyer Lord); ਸਮੈ ਸੰਤ ਪਰ ਹੋਤ ਸਹਾਈ ॥ समै संत पर होत सहाई ॥ Thou hast been helping all the saints; ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸੰਖਯਾ ਸੰਤ ਸੁਨਾਈ ॥੯॥ ता ते संखया संत सुनाई ॥९॥ Therefore the saints have reckoned Thy incarnations Can people help me with literal translations of versions 1 and 2 above? Edited May 14, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Its not Bhai Gurdas II. Someone wrote it much later and put it into the vaars of Bhai Gurdas. Then without thinking we assumed that it is by Gurdas the second, without any proof. This was probably written post 1740. Some historians say the author is Kuer Singh, which might be possible, but I have not seen any proof proving it so far. Internal proof: ਯਹ ਬਾਰਹ ਸਦੀ ਨਿਬੇੜ ਕਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਫੜੇ ਬੁਲਾਏ ਬਾਰਹ ਸਦੀ ਨਿਬੇੜ - 12th century Hijri had passed. Quick look at wikipedia shows that 1194 Hijri corresponds to 1780 AD (meaning that the creation of this vaar is even later). If we believe this internal evidence, then we can not believe that the author was Kuer Singh since he died in 1765 AD. Edited May 14, 2011 by SikhKhoj 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 No ideas on these folks?? 1) ਗੁਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ 2) ਗੁਰ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਇਓ ਕਾਲ ਕੋ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ Well, ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ seems to be literally 'time of the broadsword' could it be that ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ, means the 'time of Kalka's broadsword'?? Plus what would be the difference between ਮਨਾਈ and ਮਨਾਇਓ?? MK gives us the following for ਮਨਾਈ: (1) ਮਨਾ ਲਵਾਂ, ਰਾਜ਼ੀ ਕਰ ਲਵਾ। (2) ਮਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਹਾਂ, ਸੁਖਦੀ ਹਾਂ। (3) ਸਮਝਾਂ, ਮੰਨ ਲਵਾਂ, ਪਰਵਾਨ ਕਰੇ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਪੈ ਪਾਇ ਮਨਾਈ ਸੋਇ ਜੀਉ॥ {ਸਿਰੀ ੫, ਅਸ ੨੯, ੧*:੧ (73)}। ਸਖੀ ਇਛ ਕਰੀ ਨਿਤ ਸੁਖ ਮਨਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਸ ਪੁਜਾਏ॥ {ਗਉ ੫, ਛੰਤ ੪, ੩:੧ (249)}। ਜੇ ਭੁਖ ਦੇਹਿ ਤ ਇਤਹੀ ਰਾਜਾ ਦੁਖ ਵਿਚ ਸੂਖ ਮਨਾਈ॥ Possible translation of above: 1) to make acceptable, to reconcile oneself 2) ???? 3) to understand, (ਪਰਵਾਨ) accepted, approved As a stab in dark (no pun intended), how about: ਗੁਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ The Guru made it understood that simran is to be accepted during the time of Kalka's broadsword(???) Bindra translates it thus: "The Guru (in his Tenth Form) entreated the Shakti, the Integrity, by bequeathing the nectar through the Broad Sword" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 (2) ਮਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਹਾਂ, ਸੁਖਦੀ ਹਾਂ। is something that Bibian often do at Gurughars. Like Guruji gift me a son and I will charauna 500rs. Translation doesn't make much sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 ਗੁਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ How about Accept the Guru's [ordained] simran during this time of Kalka's Khanda? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 You are just trying to translate it to make it in accordance to Gurmat. What about 'The Guru meditated to please Kalika during the time of the broadsword'. This was written in late 18th century so doesn't mean it is all authentic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 You are just trying to translate it to make it in accordance to Gurmat. What about 'The Guru meditated to please Kalika during the time of the broadsword'. This was written in late 18th century so doesn't mean it is all authentic. I'm not trying to 'fit' it with meaning. I'm trying to understand it correctly and I'm beginning to suspect that I haven't got the linguistic skills to do this. When you check google other translations come up: From this site: (The tenth) Guru anointed the sword as the goddess to be worshipped; 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 Okay, best of luck. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 Okay, best of luck. Thanks. If you have any epiphanies on the meanings, please do share people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) ਗੁਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ In the time of the sword of Kalka, [those who] accept the Guru's ordained meditation ਪੀਓ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਖੰਡੇਧਾਰ ਹੋਇ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ। [and] drink the water of the flowing sword become at peace ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Any feedback? Edited May 21, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) ਗੁਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥ In the time of the sword of Kalka, [those who] accept the Guru's ordained meditation ਪੀਓ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਖੰਡੇਧਾਰ ਹੋਇ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ। [and] drink the water of the flowing sword become at peace ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Any feedback? Can it be Padched into "ਗੁਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਕਾਲ ਕਾ ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ॥" The meaning completely changes from Kalka's khanda into Kaal's Khanda. Edited May 21, 2011 by Mithar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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