SikhKhoj Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/displayPageContent.jsp?ID=2953&page=57&CategoryID=1&Searched=nirankari+anand Read from page 50 to page 63. What are your opinions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Marriage If anyone's daughter is not engaged seek a partner for her and perform the marriage. If the man is not a Sikh have him become one. Celebrate a marriage only by using the Anand order.'' At the time of marriage donate 11/4 rupees as an offering. Do not accept food from anyone who has a marriage performed by a Brahman. [17, 60, 80, 91] http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/sikh-rehat-maryada/daya-singh-rahit-nama-p3.html But then what is this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 The question is, what is the 'Anand order' exactly? If it wasn't around fire, when and how did it become part and parcel of Sikhi? How was it done prior to it? Certainly circumabulating around Guru Granth Sahib wasn't part of Sikhi until after 1708. There were not that many Birs and the Sangat was (unlike now) very diverse. I don't think Sikhs came from Kabul or Assam to get married around Guru Granth Sahib birs. Have you also heard of Guru Nanak writing Ik Oankar on a sheet and doing laavan around it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Have you also heard of Guru Nanak writing Ik Oankar on a sheet and doing laavan around it? I have heard it only 4-5 years back but O do think it is more of new century invention Just like suddenly we are hearing saakhi that Bhai mardana ji was told to keep kes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Yes, I also heard about Bhai Mardana being asked to keep his hair. But I find it hard to believe that Guru Nanak Sahib or any other Guru got married by Brahmans and their ceremonies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Yes, I also heard about Bhai Mardana being asked to keep his hair. But I find it hard to believe that Guru Nanak Sahib or any other Guru got married by Brahmans and their ceremonies. As a child I was very fond of Saakhi's but I never heard anything like bhai mardana being asked to keep hair or Guru nanak just wrote Ik onkar on sheet an did laavan As far Guru' marriages are concerned I too find it hard to believe that Guru's were married by Brahmans , Also Singh's used Guerilla technique of warfare and lived in Jungles I also find it hard that they were married by Brahmans as any Brahman could had easily told about the hideout to Muslims 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I think the importance is on what bani is recited during the marriage, and not the various rituals themselves.. So in essense it does not mater whether you circumlate the Guru Granth Sahib or a fire as they did in the old days.. what matters is that Gurbani is read along.. the remaining rituals is just for social reasons... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I think the importance is on what bani is recited during the marriage, and not the various rituals themselves.. So in essense it does not mater whether you circumlate the Guru Granth Sahib or a fire as they did in the old days.. what matters is that Gurbani is read along.. the remaining rituals is just for social reasons... But why Fire? what importance does it hold for us?.It looks to me Sikhs never separated themselves from Hinduism as they never consume beef and kept Their hindu rituals alive 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted June 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Valid points KDSingh. Especially about Singhs and their guerilla warfare. Amardeep, shouldn't we strive to maintain proper Gur Maryada? I think Anand Sahib was read, hence 'Anand Viah' or 'Anand Karaj'. First marriage recorded in modern times using Guru Granth Sahib was done without the pherey. Only after that did they introduce the pherey, maybe to gain more acceptance from people as they were usually against it. (adding pherey made the ceremony more similar to fire one and made it easier to accept it?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 I dont know much about sikh weddings and i've never attended one but is'nt it the Lavaan that are read, and not anand sahib? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted June 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yes Raag Suhi M4 is read, no Bani named Lavaan exists. But I think Anand Sahib was read too, hence Anand Viah but thats just my opinion. If I am not mistaken I once read in a Puratan work 'anand bina viah nahi karauna' so that made me think if it was referring to the Bani or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 In prem sumarag a wedding is called Sanjog(union of souls) rather than viah so could'n the above "anand bina viah nahi karauna" be interpreted in this light, ie without the anand of the two souls a wedding should not take place? Not to be taken literally but poeticly ie. confirming that weddings are of spiritual and higher nature than what we see in the islamic tradition where weddings more have to do with base instincts 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted June 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Sanjog is a nice word, but there is nothing wrong in calling the actual ceremony 'viah'/marriage. The quote I posted might be bit different, I just posted from my memory, but it is along those lines. I agree that it could be more metaphorical. But since Anand Sahib was and is recited on each occassion of 'happiness' such as birth, why not marriage too? Just wondering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) The lavans are to be recited according to the prem sumarag. it also says the word viah is used by worldly people whereas in the khalsa tradition is it to be called Sanjog Edited June 11, 2011 by amardeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I don't know if thats true though, because I saw rehatnamas saying Viah too. Prem Sumarg seems to be an early manuscript but there are some Brahmanic influences, right? have you read whole of the prem sumarg? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 yes and i did'n see much brahmanic influence. Its actually very much against goddess worship etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I don't know if thats true though, because I saw rehatnamas saying Viah too. Viah is a shortened form of the full word which is 'vivah'. Puratan Itihaas tells us that Guru Nanak Sahib took laavan around a Pothi Sahib of Gurbani (my mind fails me, could have been just JapJi Sahib - will have to find time to look through some granths). This tradition continued until Adi Granth Sahib Ji was given by Guru Arjan Sahib, and later Guru Graanth Sahib Ji. Many Sikh families have Hindu ancestry, even going back just a couple of generations. This explains why some rituals carried over like going round fire etc. Things got really mixed up during the raaj of Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji and the period of turmoil just after. Too much maya does weird things to apney. Anand Sahib is called that because it brings Anand, not because it is to be used during happy occasions. Anand Karaj is called that because, well you know how apney love weddings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Marrying around fire is still there, Amardeep. Matheen, Vivah is more used by Hindi speakers (altough I heard it on Punjabi TV, punjabis hardly use that word). I assume Guru Nanak Sahib started keeping pothi lateron. Guru Ji married between the age of 15 and 18 and had hardly uttered any Bani (Aad Bani, against Janeu etc but not that much). Doesn't make sense of turning around Adi Granth if there were only a handful birs. How did Sangat of places other than Amritsar marry? Yes much Hindu influence to Hindu Sikh intermarriages and many Hindu families raising first born as a Sikh (nowadays I see some mona Sikh couples keeping same trend - which is not bad) Anand Sahib is for Anand, but it doesn't change the fact that its recited on every happy occasion in ones life. Actually I was thinking and Guru Angad Sahib and Guru Amar Das married according to Hindu rites. Guru Angad married at age 16 and Guru Amar Das met Guru Nanak when he was more than 60. Guru Nanak Sahib weren't Hindu any time in their life so I guess they did pherey around mool mantar or so. And from fourth Guru onward, laavans existed. In between I think there was no real ceremony, just going to Dharamsala and doing ardaas? We need to research more on early history (between Guru Nanak Sahib and Guru Arjan Sahib). Has anyone read the pothi written by Guru Har Rais (adopted?) daugter (Rup Kaur?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.