paapiman Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Another lie, what is your proof besides hearsay? Baba Mani Singh jee was. You proved it for me. Edited May 15, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I challenged you for something? You will perhaps not accept it because you still haven't found a single proof for DDTs 8 wives claim etc. And Mani Singh was not a Taksali. Even if you claim he was, one name does not suffice, give me historical sources that say all Jathedars of DDT (no proof that it existed pre 1900) were Head granthis of Harmandar Sahib. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramgharia Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 So, why did Baba Ghaniyaa jee not fight the tyrant Mughals, but instead served them? If there was only one maryada (for example Nihang maryada), then he would have had no option, but to fight with them. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh at that time how many sampradayes were there? if we all are a part of khalsa. and we should follow only one rehat maryada. for panth ekta we should have one maryada. all guru nanak namleva sampradayes should follow one rehat maryada belive in only guru granth sahib not in any dehdhari guru(like namdhari belive) and give women equal rights( like ddt belive that wife should bow down to her husband as god) belive in proper panj kakar ( like AKJ beliveing in keski as a kakar) should not follow hindu rituals ( like giving bali, doing arti like hindus,) shold not bow down to idols( like many siks go to hindu tempals) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I challenged you for something? You will perhaps not accept it because you still haven't found a single proof for DDTs 8 wives claim etc. And Mani Singh was not a Taksali. Even if you claim he was, one name does not suffice, give me historical sources that say all Jathedars of DDT (no proof that it existed pre 1900) were Head granthis of Harmandar Sahib. Bro, I am not a Taksali or a scholar. It will take me time to find answers to your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) I challenged you for something? You will perhaps not accept it because you still haven't found a single proof for DDTs 8 wives claim etc. A proof was provided to you, regarding Satguru jee's multiple wives. http://sikhism.about.com/od/guruharrai16301661/p/Guru_Har_Rai.htm I am assuming, who ever wrote the above article, must have researched. It mentions - "several records". Anyways, I will try to find, at least one of those records. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 15, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Bro, I asked you about Sri Dasam Granth Sahib? Answer the above, bro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 There is also debate as to whether the full Dasam Granth can be attributed to Guru Ji or not... Certainly some can but some is in question also. People who belong to cults, are the ones who are questioning about Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. Khalsa/Sikh panth is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 People who belong to cults, are the ones who are questioning about Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. Khalsa/Sikh panth is not. I didnt say Dasam Granth.. I said 'some' parts of it. And also the intentions of those parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post shastarsewak Posted May 15, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) ; Edited May 17, 2015 by shastarsewak 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 I challenged you for something? You will perhaps not accept it because you still haven't found a single proof for DDTs 8 wives claim etc. The reference has been provided in Gurbani Path Darpan. The fact that Satguru jee married 8 sisters (daughters of a king), is mentioned in Baba Mani Singh jee's Gurbilas. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 I didnt say Dasam Granth.. I said 'some' parts of it. And also the intentions of those parts. That's like saying - I believe in SGGSJ, but I don't believe in some parts of it, like Bhagat Gurbani, Sri Raagmala, etc. Khalsa jee, always be on the safe side. God will easily forgive you, if you believe in some bani, which turns out to be non-Gurbani. But, if a person who disbelieves in any of Gurbani, will be in trouble. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 That's like saying - I believe in SGGSJ, but I don't believe in some parts of it, like Bhagat Gurbani, Sri Raagmala, etc. Khalsa jee, always be on the safe side. God will easily forgive you, if you believe in some bani, which turns out to be non-Gurbani. But, if a person who disbelieves in any of Gurbani, will be in trouble. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh So what do we do when one is in conflict with the other? I remember reading an article online that shows a huge contradiction between SGGSJ and Dasam Granth. They both can't be right... Some sects put Dasam Granth in even level with SGGSJ which is wrong. Gurushio was given to SGGSJ only so that means Dasam Granth while important writing... Is not to be final authority on anything. They also compared writing styles in Dasam Granth and while banis like jap sahib are obvious other writing like chitropakyan is not able to be attributed to Guru Ji. Even then it's being used in wrong light by groups like DDT to put women in lower light when that's not what it's saying. It's very obvious what it's saying: 1 Oppress any group ( in this case women) 2 they will still find a way to have their own needs and desires met 3 the only way they can do that is to manipulate who is oppressing them ( in the case of those stories the men) 4 the only answer is to restore balance of power through equality But anyway the style of writing was completely different when it was analyzed and that's why it doesn't seem authentic to some. Also Dasam Granth was compiled after Guru Ji left his physical body. It was compiled by others and not Guru Ji himself. It would have been too easy to insert extras by someone who wanted their own opinion heard. So I will say again: it's important historical writing but it's NOT our Guru Ji m. Only SGGSJ is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) So what do we do when one is in conflict with the other? I remember reading an article online that shows a huge contradiction between SGGSJ and Dasam Granth. They both can't be right... Some sects put Dasam Granth in even level with SGGSJ which is wrong. Gurushio was given to SGGSJ only so that means Dasam Granth while important writing... Is not to be final authority on anything. They also compared writing styles in Dasam Granth and while banis like jap sahib are obvious other writing like chitropakyan is not able to be attributed to Guru Ji. Even then it's being used in wrong light by groups like DDT to put women in lower light when that's not what it's saying. It's very obvious what it's saying: There is no contradiction in SSGSJ and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. Sri Charitropakhian Sahib jee is Gurbani. Please check the link below. Nihang Dharam Singh jee has done a good job in explaining the deep meanings of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. https://www.youtube.com/user/SachKhojAcademy/playlists Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 16, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 There is no contradiction in SSGSJ and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. Sri Charitropakhian Sahib jee is Gurbani. Please check the link below. Nihang Dharam Singh jee has done a good job in explaining the deep meanings of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. https://www.youtube.com/user/SachKhojAcademy/playlists Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh It's important writing and might have deep meaning ( none of which is to meant to denegrate women by the way) but it's not on same level as SGGSJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Katha by Nihang Gyani Sher Singh jee on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) ShasterSewak, is it the same Dharmu nung who was reprimanded by Akal Takht Sahib? Edited May 16, 2015 by SikhKhoj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Dharmu Nung is a heretic who was called to Akal Takht but he failed to appear there. Then he was excommunicated from Sikh qaum. Maybe due to pressure these things were reviewed later but I'm not aware of that. Edited May 16, 2015 by SikhKhoj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) To Paapi, Which Gurbilas of Mani Singh are you talking about? Only a few granths are attributed to Mani Singh and these are Bhagat Ratnavli, Gyan Ratnavli and Sharda Puran Granth. Which Granth do you mention and on which page does it talk about Guru Sahibs 8 marriages? Secondly, you lied on here that Dal jathedars would be Jathedar of Akal Takht but I am asking you to prove from pre 1850 literature where the post of JATHEDAR of Akal Takth is mentioned? In Prachin Panth Parkash (1843) Mani Singh is referred to as head pujari not jathedar. Edited May 16, 2015 by SikhKhoj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 To Paapi, Which Gurbilas of Mani Singh are you talking about? Only a few granths are attributed to Mani Singh and these are Bhagat Ratnavli, Gyan Ratnavli and Sharda Puran Granth. Which Granth do you mention and on which page does it talk about Guru Sahibs 8 marriages? In Prachin Panth Parkash (1843) Mani Singh is referred to as head pujari not jathedar. I have not read that book. It is mentioned in Gurbani Paath Darpan. Do you know what a Jathedar means in English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Well then don't quote books you haven't read. Tell me the exact name of the book and page number which mentions 8 wives of Guru Har Rai, a thing which doesn't make sense even if written historically because there are also books claiming Guru Tegh bahadur committed suicide. But it would be nice to see what kind of sources your Gurbachan Singh used. And secondly, show me where the post of 'akal takht jathedar' is mentioned in history. First show me that, then we discuss whether nihang chiefs were also jathedar of takth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Well then don't quote books you haven't read. Tell me the exact name of the book and page number which mentions 8 wives of Guru Har Rai, a thing which doesn't make sense even if written historically because there are also books claiming Guru Tegh bahadur committed suicide. But it would be nice to see what kind of sources your Gurbachan Singh used. Read my posts above carefully. You will find your answer. Edited May 16, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Secondly, you lied on here that Dal jathedars would be Jathedar of Akal Takht but I am asking you to prove from pre 1850 literature where the post of JATHEDAR of Akal Takth is mentioned? Quote ‘At the Akal Takht, Takht Sahib Siri Kesgarh Sahib and Takht Dam Dama Sahib the priests dressed in the Nihang manner. From this it is known that the it was the Budha Dal Jathedar that used to control the organisation of the Takhts. Because it was Budha Dal which looked after all the religious traditions of historical Gurdwaras in the Punjab. Initiating Khalsa and preaching Dharma it did also.’ ‘Siri Akal Takht Sahib Ateh Jathedar Sahiban’, by Giani Kirpal Singh, 1999, Pa. 57 Unquote [1] [1] - http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/article_samparda_nihangs.html Who has lied?? Edited May 16, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Another lie, what is your proof besides hearsay? Quote Baba Harnaam Singh ji Bedi was barred from sewa of Mukh Granthi, a position which Taksali Mahapurakhs had held from times of Baba Mani Singh ji. Unquote [1] [1] - http://www.jathashaheedan.com/jotaksal.php Who has lied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Well then don't quote books you haven't read. Why is it necessary to read the entire book before you quote it? It is mentioned in Gurbani Paath Darpan as a footnote. I trust Srimaan 108 Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa Bhindrawale, who was way way way way higher than you or me (just normal beings). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Dharmu Nung is a heretic who was called to Akal Takht but he failed to appear there. Then he was excommunicated from Sikh qaum. Maybe due to pressure these things were reviewed later but I'm not aware of that. He has great knowledge, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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