CdnSikhGirl Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Read the question properly.If a non Sikh can achieve this state, then it stands to reason this state is still not 'dependent upon' belief in certain granths...even for a Sikh.Reaching the state of Brahamgyani (according to Sukhmani Sahib) is dependent upon considering ALL equally (yes even gender), reamining unattached (yes this means no viewing other humans as God like a physical husband - but instead seeing light of God in all), humble, always in rembrance of God, doing good for others, realizing the truth to reality and the soul, knowing God, doing things for common good etc. Nowhere does it say that belief in any specific granth is required for one to reach this state!In fact, one could still reach this state without ever believing in SGGSJ (as non Sikhs can still find the truth... there is no monopoly on the truth, there is no monopoly on realizing God!)To say that belief in specific granths etc. is a requirement of a Brahamgyani, then we are pulling themeaning of Brahamgyani down to someone who is veresed in certain sects, belief systems, etc. and that is wrong. And we can see it because one sect will not acknowledge people from other sects as Brahamgyani simply because they don't 'believe' in the same rules or granths etc. THAT's not the definition of Brahamgyani... It's not about how many rules one can follow... or which books someone supports. It's about realizing the truth to reality and acting with full qualities of God. Edited May 20, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 If a non Sikh can achieve this state, then it stands to reason this state is still not 'dependent upon' belief in certain granths...even for a Sikh. Reaching the state of Brahamgyani (according to Sukhmani Sahib) is dependent upon considering ALL equally (yes even gender), reamining unattached (yes this means no viewing other humans as God like a physical husband - but instead seeing light of God in all), humble, always in rembrance of God, doing good for others, realizing the truth to reality and the soul, knowing God, doing things for common good etc. Nowhere does it say that belief in any specific granth is required for one to reach this state! In fact, one could still reach this state without ever believing in SGGSJ (as non Sikhs can still find the truth... there is no monopoly on the truth!) So even Nirankaris, Namdharis and Radhaswamis can reach Brahamgyan too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) So even Nirankaris, Namdharis and Radhaswamis can reach Brahamgyan too?ANYONE can find the truth Paapiman. You don't have to belong to a certain sect to reach this state. A Christian, A Wiccan, A Jewish, etc can all reach this state! Nearly every major religion also has a 'mystical' component, those who have realized the truth to reality and espouse all of those qualities mentioned in Sukhmani Sahib.It's NOT about which sect you follow, which books you believe in, which rules you follow... it's about self realization of the truth, and acting as God toward others... acting with humility, helping others, charity, guiding others to see that truth in themselves, treating everyone equally, putting others before self, essentially becoming one with God... there is no difference between them and God anymore as they act fully as God in all their actions and thoughts. Knowing that God is all. Experiencing it for themselves. You don't have to be DDT or Nihang to achieve this! Edited May 20, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) ANYONE can find the truth Paapiman. You don't have to belong to a certain sect to reach this state. A Christian, A Wiccan, A Jewish, etc can all reach this state! Nearly every major religion also has a 'mystical' component, those who have realized the truth to reality and espouse all of those qualities mentioned in Sukhmani Sahib. It's NOT about which sect you follow, which books you believe in, which rules you follow... it's about self realization of the truth, and acting as God toward others... acting with humility, helping others, charity, guiding others to see that truth in themselves, treating everyone equally, putting others before self, essentially becoming one with God... there is no difference between them and God anymore as they act fully as God in all their actions and thoughts. Knowing that God is all. Experiencing it for themselves. You don't have to be DDT or Nihang to achieve this! People who believe that their human guru is greater than SGGSJ, can also reach Brahamgyan? Don't talk about non-Sikhs. That is a different topic. Edited May 21, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 People who believe that their human guru is greater than SGGSJ, can also reach Brahamgyan? Don't talk about non-Sikhs. That is a completely different topic.Yes even them! Truth is not a monopoly to any one religion. The reason I brought up other religions, is that if they too can reach this state, than even those following sects which have a human 'guru' or teacher, can also find the truth. There is nothing blocking them from finding it! Once they find that truth, they may decide that they no longer need to follow any sect or religion at all.The meaning of 'Brahamgyani' is not following a certain sect, not beliving any specific sect's beliefs or rules, or rehets, etc. It's about finding out for one's self the actual underlying truth to the Universe. And nobody is barred from that! Everyone can achieve this! It doesn't matter if you are a pygmy from middle of South America who has never even seen outside civillization, or a high priest in some religion, a beggar on the streetside, or a common person going through lifes challenges. It's about realization, not which group or sect or jatha one belongs to. ANYONE has the capacity to realize God, to espouse those qualities of God in their every breath and thought and action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Yes even them! ਕਾਚੇ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੂਆ ॥ Through a false guru, liberation is not found. The above tuk applies to those so-called Sikhs, who believe that their human guru is greater than or equal to SSGGSJ. Edited May 20, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 ANYONE can find the truth Paapiman. She believes Nirankaris, Naamdharis and Radhaswamis can also reach Brahamgyan. Can someone comment on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) If a non Sikh can achieve this state, then it stands to reason this state is still not 'dependent upon' belief in certain granths...even for a Sikh. So, correct me if I am wrong, according to you, a person who does not believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee (utter blasphemy), can reach the state of Brahamgyan? Edited May 20, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) So, correct me if I am wrong, according to you, a person who does not believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee (utter blasphemy), can reach the state of Brahamgyan?Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught that no religion has a monopoly on the truth. Truth is truth. Someone can find this truth without even being Sikh. So yes, even a Sikh who does not believe in Dasam Granth could still find that truth. It's not dependent upon belief. Truth just 'is'. There are many ways to find that truth! Many different paths. Brahamgyani is someone who is spiritually awakened to the truth of existence. And because of being awakened, their very acts and words and thoughts all reflect that of God. This is not reserved to only Sikhs, and certainly not reserved to only sertain sects of Sikhs! (I know you are trying to strongly suggest that only DDT / Nihangs etc could ever be Brahamgyani... sorry to say your thinking is flawed). And it's very obvious you have hardcore sect mentality...Realizing truth, which is universal, becoming spiritually awakened is not dependent upon belonging to a certain sect, abiding certain rules, following certain babas, or even believing in certain books or granths. It's entirely dependent upon that person going within and finding that Universal truth, which is there for EVERYONE to find within themselves! Edited May 20, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramgharia Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 So, correct me if I am wrong, according to you, a person who does not believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee (utter blasphemy), can reach the state of Brahamgyan? if sikh want to reach brahamgyan he should belive in shri guru granth sahib saccepatshah, shri dasam granth sahib ji and shri sarabloh granth sahib ji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramgharia Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 So, correct me if I am wrong, according to you, a person who does not believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee (utter blasphemy), can reach the state of Brahamgyan? if sikh want to reach brahamgyan he should belive in shri guru granth sahib saccepatshah, shri dasam granth sahib ji and shri sarabloh granth sahib ji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 if sikh want to reach brahamgyan he should belive in shri guru granth sahib saccepatshah, shri dasam granth sahib ji and shri sarabloh granth sahib ji. Good one bro. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) if sikh want to reach brahamgyan he should belive in shri guru granth sahib saccepatshah, shri dasam granth sahib ji and shri sarabloh granth sahib ji.If a non Sikh can attain this spiritually realized state without ever having read any of the three Granths... then yes its possible to still find this truth. The granths are there to help us, but truth is truth... anyone can find it. There are more than one way!You are not understanding... Brahamgyani is not a label given to someone for following rules, or believing in certain books or granths, or being the head or leader of a dhera or sect. It's the description of someone who found the universal truth to existence within themselves, within everything and everyone around them such that there is no longer a difference between that person and God. If you attach rules like 'must believe in certain granths' 'must follow certain rehet maryadas' etc you are pulling what a Brahamgyani is down...Think about it... if a Sikh has gone within themselves and fully found God... is God realized, sees ALL as ONE, espouses God in all their actions and words and thoughts, but has not read Dasam Granth, you'd dismiss them and say 'that person is not a Brahamgyani' But then... you are forgetting.. you are not qualified to declare who is or isnt a Brahamgyani! None of us are! Only the Brahamgyani can ever know! Edited May 20, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 So, correct me if I am wrong, according to you, a person who does not believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee (utter blasphemy), can reach the state of Brahamgyan? How else do you think Sikhs before Guru Gobind Singh reached the stage of Brahmgyan? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 If a non Sikh can achieve this state, then it stands to reason this state is still not 'dependent upon' belief in certain granths...even for a Sikh. Reaching the state of Brahamgyani (according to Sukhmani Sahib) is dependent upon considering ALL equally (yes even gender), reamining unattached (yes this means no viewing other humans as God like a physical husband - but instead seeing light of God in all), humble, always in rembrance of God, doing good for others, realizing the truth to reality and the soul, knowing God, doing things for common good etc. Nowhere does it say that belief in any specific granth is required for one to reach this state! In fact, one could still reach this state without ever believing in SGGSJ (as non Sikhs can still find the truth... there is no monopoly on the truth, there is no monopoly on realizing God!) To say that belief in specific granths etc. is a requirement of a Brahamgyani, then we are pulling themeaning of Brahamgyani down to someone who is veresed in certain sects, belief systems, etc. and that is wrong. And we can see it because one sect will not acknowledge people from other sects as Brahamgyani simply because they don't 'believe' in the same rules or granths etc. THAT's not the definition of Brahamgyani... It's not about how many rules one can follow... or which books someone supports. It's about realizing the truth to reality and acting with full qualities of God. Sounds like blasphemy, but to the one who contemplates it seems right. I would like to clarify that Sikhi is the best path though because other religions have several flaws in their prophets, religious books and customs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 How else do you think Sikhs before Guru Gobind Singh reached the stage of Brahmgyan? Talk about today's times, not about olden times. At that times, Sikhs had a different nitnaym too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Talk about today's times, not about olden times. At that times, Sikhs had a different nitnaym too. Yes, but the fact remains... people can reach this state independent of what granth they read, independent of even which religion they are! Truth doesn't just change. It's universal. And it's has always existed and always will. And anyone can access it... that's the point. There's no new Universal rule that has been introduced by God that says someone has to follow Sikhi and has to follow a certain sect of Sikhi to find truth. The Universal truth has not changed. What has changed is that humans were given a way that works, to access the truth in the most easy way. But it doesn't mean that other ways don't work anymore. So time doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 ANYONE can find the truth Paapiman. One does not need a phd to know that anyone can find the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 How else do you think Sikhs before Guru Gobind Singh reached the stage of Brahmgyan? There used to be no Khanday da amrit at that time. Do you think, a Sikh can reach Brahamgyan in today's times, without it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 There used to be no Khanday da amrit at that time. Do you think, a Sikh can reach Brahamgyan in today's times, without it? Yes I do! I know you were asking Sikhkhoj but yes I FIRMLY believe so! (Actually not believe I KNOW so!) Because: see my last post above! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramgharia Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 If a non Sikh can attain this spiritually realized state without ever having read any of the three Granths... then yes its possible to still find this truth. The granths are there to help us, but truth is truth... anyone can find it. There are more than one way! You are not understanding... Brahamgyani is not a label given to someone for following rules, or believing in certain books or granths, or being the head or leader of a dhera or sect. It's the description of someone who found the universal truth to existence within themselves, within everything and everyone around them such that there is no longer a difference between that person and God. If you attach rules like 'must believe in certain granths' 'must follow certain rehet maryadas' etc you are pulling what a Brahamgyani is down... Think about it... if a Sikh has gone within themselves and fully found God... is God realized, sees ALL as ONE, espouses God in all their actions and words and thoughts, but has not read Dasam Granth, you'd dismiss them and say 'that person is not a Brahamgyani' But then... you are forgetting.. you are not qualified to declare who is or isnt a Brahamgyani! None of us are! Only the Brahamgyani can ever know! i had said that if a SIKH wants brahamgian. for a non sikh then he she should read there books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramgharia Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Yes, but the fact remains... people can reach this state independent of what granth they read, independent of even which religion they are! Truth doesn't just change. It's universal. And it's has always existed and always will. And anyone can access it... that's the point. There's no new Universal rule that has been introduced by God that says someone has to follow Sikhi and has to follow a certain sect of Sikhi to find truth. The Universal truth has not changed. What has changed is that humans were given a way that works, to access the truth in the most easy way. But it doesn't mean that other ways don't work anymore. So time doesn't matter. If you are a SIKH follow Guru Granth Sahib, Dasam Granth Sahib, and Sarabloh Granth Sahib beacouse a Sikh can get brahamgian form this path. For a NON SIKH follow what your religon says beacouse thats there path (non sikhs path) to attain braham gian. dhan guru nanak. dhan guru gobind singh. dhan shri guru granth sahib ji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Yes I do! I know you were asking Sikhkhoj but yes I FIRMLY believe so! (Actually not believe I KNOW so!) Because: see my last post above! One cannot call himself a Sikh, without taking Khanday da amrit. How will such a Nigura (person without a guru) reach Brahamgyan? Quote pRQm rihq Xih jwn KMfy kI pwhul Cky ] soeI isMG pRDwn Avr n pwhul jo ley ] prathham rehith yehi jaan kha(n)ddae kee paahul shhakae ||asoee si(n)gh pradhhaan avar n paahul jo leae || To drink the Ambrosial Nectar of the Khanda (Amrit) is the primary instruction for the Sikh. He who abandons all other initiations is truly a great Sikh. Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh Unquote [1] [1] - http://www.sikhitothemax.com/rehat.asp?id=92 Non-Sikhs are a different case. Edited May 21, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Waheguruuuuuu Edited May 21, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts