Knowing vs Believing ?

[Ragmaala]

How much do you actually know ?

How much do you just believe ?

[Guest]

I am sorry not sure in which context we should be talking about your above points but ultimately:

From gurmat bhagti stand point, if true devotee's pass the limit of believe- into pure faith and love, maharaj himself can do kirpa on true devote and save devotees, provide divine knowingness for eg- bhagat parlad

From gurmat gyan stand point or aspect, true believe can come after pure meditation of atma and in pure knowningness which means there is this spontaneous believe after gyan meditation in stillness and knowingness without an thought.

Sikh is pure perfect balance blend of gurmat bhagti and gurmat gyan together. We can either look at it from spiritual development stage point of view or actual aspect of divine (bhagti and gyan)

[Ragmaala]

I feel a lot of our knowledge comes from reading and listening to interpretations by others.

It would be nice to have just our own experience of knowledge which comes only through kirpa as you mentioned.

I was just self contemplating, and seeing where I stand.  Knowledge is not my own, it has been gathered from around. Altho I have 100% belief in Gurus words, but some bachans are harder to understand.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Ragmaala

[mahanpaapi]

there is a fundamental difference between knowing through intellect (which people like me tend to know a lot through readings, listening and discussions but is devoid of any experience, and furthermore rely on that to express my religiosity), and believing (which people like me tend to equate with knowing albeit falsely, and it means one has experienced the shabad one way or other, jaap or grace),

for example, let us take a shabad,

".... Taati vao na lagai, tati vao na lagai jin Parbrahm sharanai, Chaugird hamare Ram ka, chaugird hamare Ram ka
Dukh lage na bhai,...,"

now we all know what it means intellectually and not only that we tell others whenever they have any problem to do that, however, only a naam abhiyasi who have done jaap of this shabad, will actually know and believe it through spiritual experience.

[harsharan000]

Just my 2 cents in this beutiful topic/thread,

Real knowledge(GYAN) comes only by doing , what our belief tells us to do, by implicitly  following the instructions given  to us through the Bani, of those who themselves are embodiment of Gyan, such as Bhagat Jan and Guru Sahiban. 

And that what we ought to as per  Bani, is : Ik Oankar,  Satgur parsad Jap.  We have to do the jap/meditation/simran, of that One Supreme Lord,  through His Nam.

Rest is all man-mat. 

Satgur bajoh  hor kachee hae Bani

SSA.