Guest Javanmard Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 soory to tell you this folks but your Muslim mates have hanbali and wahabi imamns in their mosques who fill their minds with this bullshit about Shias and Sufis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Doesn't Guru Nanak teach Muslims about being proper Muslims? Yes! and that salok is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 'Doesn't Guru Nanak teach Muslims about being proper Muslims?' well yes but what do you mean that they become proper muslims by reading bani, why not the Qu'ran :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 If you're a Muslim and you read bani it will help you understand the real nature of the Quran and realise that it's all not just about following laws but mostly about loving God!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Here is message of Guru Granth Sahib for Muslims. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MARU, FIFTH MEHL: Page-1083 O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah, forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements. Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers, and consider yourself a traveller on this journey. O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord. || 1 || Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat. Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes. Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you. || 2 || Let your practice be to live the spiritual life. Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God. Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. || 3 || Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible; restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil. Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. || 4 || Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast. Let Paradise be your practice of the ProphetÃs Word. God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber. || 5 || Page-1084 He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth. He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart. He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish, who takes the Support of the LordÃs Praise. || 6 || Always, at every moment, remember God, the Creator within your heart. Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses. Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision. || 7 || You must know in your heart that everything is temporary. Family, household and siblings are all entanglements. Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory; only GodÃs Gate is the permanent place. || 8 || First, is the LordÃs Praise; second, contentment; third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities. Fifth is to hold oneÃs desires in restraint. These are the five most sublime daily prayers. || 9 || Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere. Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry. Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer; be a good child of God ó let this be your trumpet. || 10 || Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food. Wash away pollution with the river of your heart. One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. || 11 || Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride. Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight. Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. || 12 || To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted, and wash away pollution from within the heart. He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. || 13 || One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord, is the manliest man among men. He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave, who is blessed with God's Grace. || 14 || The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy. The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable. Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. || 15 || 3 || 12 || Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 :bow: thanks a lot bhaji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Mr. Singh, make sure you read it in Gurmukhi so you can learn it in details. http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/1083.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 THik e, I'll read it in Gurmuhki as well thanks for the link bhull chukk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbarSher Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 For once ....I agree :-) .........with ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbarSher Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 I meant I agree with lallesh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Thanks BabbarSher... With SUnni Muslims or RSS it's very simple: mess them up mentally by knowing their religion better than them instead of them trying to make you feel insecure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 well yes but what do you mean that they become proper muslims by reading bani, why not the Qu'ran :? becoz it's false :twisted: :evil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 No Amriksingh, There is a verse in gurbani it clearly says... dont call quran or vedas false, call those people false who dont contemplate with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 its a joke... like you say "no hard feelings" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 This is a post by a brother of mine who wanted to reply being anonymous : Lalleshvari on the sabat soorat post wrote -; Wise words and one would wish he would follow his own advice and write not such posts when it suits his purpose but forget about them when it doesn't. Such advice is also relevant with other writings such as Rehatnamas and other old texts. On a side note, I have found the views of 'young born again Singhs' and 'Retired Engineers' to be much more reliable than the views of Lalleshvari, mainly because these young Sikhs and Engineers don't try to bend Gurbani to suit their own agenda, something that sadly cannot be said about Lalleshvari. Lalleshvari also has some chip on his shoulder against people such as young born again Singhs and retired engineers who try to research Gurbani and Sikh history. Apparently such things should only be left to 'professional scholars' like Lalleshvari or as he claimed to be on a Shia site I am considered an Alim ( scholar ) in my community Lol, yeah right !. I have come across people in Punjab who have no university education but would put a 'professional scholar' like Lalleshvari to shame !. As always Lalleshvari doesn’t reveal the whole truth. Why allow the facts to get in the way of a story that seems to support his personal beliefs in the shia imams. Now the facts 1. The ‘support’ that lalleshvari claims that Guru Nanak gives to the Shia view of the successors of Mohammed doesn’t really exist in the Janamsakhi. Abu Bakr isn’t even mentioned !. 2. The Bhai Mani Singh Janamsakhi is not Gurbani, many scholars believe that the name of Bhai Mani Singh was attached to this Janamsakhi so that the writer could claim some authority for his work. It seems that the author used Bhai Gurdas’s 1st Vaar as the basis of some of his sakhis but he has added other material mainly from his fertile imagination. The writer also uses material from 'Makke Medine di goshti', a apocryphal work which has never been accepted as the work of Guru Nanak. 3. The sakhi that Lalleshvari seems to be using to link the Guru to his personal beliefs in the Shia imams in ‘Mashad Jaanaa’. The relevant portion of this sakhi is that a group of Shia Muslims ask Guru Nanak, Sunni Jo Hain So Mohammed Noon Manhdai Hain Atay Asin Jo Ha So Ali Noon Manhdai Ha, So Tusin Kaho Ki Duhan Vichon Vishekh Kavan Hoiya. Ta Baba Kahiya Ki Jauaanmardi Karkai Ar Shastaran Karkai Ali Vadheek Hoiya Hai, Atay Ilam Karkay Mohmmed Vadeek Hoaiya, Ar Samajh Karkai Donno Ikko Jahey Hai. The sunnis believe in mohammed and we ( shias ) believe in Ali. Tell us which of these two is special ( better ). Baba said because of tradition of chivalry ( spiritual ) and use of weapons Ali is better. But due to knowledge ( revelation ) Mohammed is better but understand that both are the same. As can be seen from this quote, Lalleshvari seems to have added 2 and 2 and as usual come up with 5 !. True to form he doesn’t let the facts get in the way of his promoting his shia views even whilst claiming to be a Sikh. In fact he even went on a shia site to calls Singh Sabha and AKJ Sikhs as b*stards ! as well as claiming that the Gurus supported Ali over Abu Bakr !. Thereby dragging our beloved Gurus names into a needless controversary just because it propped up his shia inclinations. Perhaps someone should tell him that when you become a Sikh you leave all your previous inclinations towards other beliefs at the door. Lalleshvari appears to treat this janamsakhi especially this obscure and unreliable sakhi as if it were Gurbani even going on to say-; The above quote from Lalleshvari begs the question, who made him an authority on Sikhi and what gives him the right to claim to speak for all Sikhs simply to further his personal beliefs in the shia imams. Without doubt Lalleshvari would want us to accept this sakhi as authentic but there are a few difficulties in this sakhi. If we were for one moment to believe that Bhai Mani Singh one of the greatest scholars of Sikhism wrote this sakhi then are we to believe that he was not even aware of the basic schism between Sunni and Shia ?. The salhi has Shias saying that Sunnis believe (manhdai ) in Mohammed and Shias believe in Ali. Even a shia wannabe like Lalleshvari would know that this is not the case. BOTH believe in Mohammed but shias believe Ali is the successor of Mohammed and Sunnis believe it was Abu Bakr. So the Sakhi is incorrect. What does it say about Bhai Mani Singh, could he have made such a basic mistake ? The answer has to be no, so it must have been written by someone else and that someone did not have much knowledge of sunni-shia schism but a very fertile imagination. It might be news to Lalleshvari but the Gurus were not the least bit concerned whether some Abu Dabbu or some Ali Malli was the true successor of Mohammed. They didn’t even consider it fit to mention mohammed by name in their Bani whereas they have mentioned and lauded ‘lesser’ bhagats ( in Islamic terms ) such as Kabirji and Namdevji !. Please note that I'm not taking part fo this discussion Bhull chukk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Oh I was missing the whole "lalleshvari is a sob" insults. Farewell MrSIngh! :twisted: tell your friend: 1. I never said Bhi Mani Singh's Janamsakhi is bani but historically there is a link between Shiism and Sikhism. Pir Budhu Shah was Shia and it is a known fact that Shia tribes helped Ranjit SIngh in his campaigns against the Pathans. 2. I am very well aware of the difference between Sunnis and Shias. More than your friend actually thinks! 3. Also tell your friend that I am professionally trained and that I have the right to call me a scholar beause of my university diplomas in the field of South Asian languages, religions and cultures. 4. Tell your friend that tea is ready! 5. It would be nice if you started thinking for yourself instead of constantly having to ask your "brothers" for information! 6. The debate is about conversion attempts by the Muslims and how to confuse and not about how much of a badmash lalleshvari is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 5. It would be nice if you started thinking for yourself instead of constantly having to ask your "brothers" for information! AS I earlier meantioned, I'm not taking part fo this discussions ,.. I'm just posting what he had to say just like I posted KS msg in the other thread , no1 said anything then.:roll: bhull chukk maaf . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Mr Singh i think you should stop being messenger.. avaaie badhooo dii kautuoo stress laaie jana purkha... Tell Bikkie his ban was for 2 weeks.. he can come on SA.. post the messages himself... no pointing hiding behind the veil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 mr singh, i also suggest you read saloks of bhagat sheik farid ji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbarSher Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 N 30 veerji, it is true that there is a shalok in Guru Granth Sahib which says..that call not the vedas false, but thers is also another Shabad by Bhagat Kabeer Ji, whereon he says that it is best to stay away from both Vedas and Quran :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 There is a verse in gurbani it clearly says... dont call quran or vedas false, call those people false who dont contemplate with them Guru Gobind Singh Ji says: ''Ram rahim puran quran, anek kahe mat ek na maneyo'' The Vedas, Puranas and Quran speak of many things, I do not believe any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Dear Saihajleen Kaur Khalsa, Just for the knowledge purpose. Can you provide the Granth name in which Guru ji stated above lines? Also, if you can please add full paragraph. You can type in Punjabi if you want as we have punjabi fonts installed. I will look forward to see full paragraph where Guru ji said "''Ram rahim puran quran, anek kahe mat ek na maneyo'' "..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 I remember the above bani mentioned by gurpreet kaur ji and i think its one of the nitneem prayers we do.. i think its sodar rehras if i m not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 The point im making will come once she writes the full paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 the svaiya is from the end of "ram avtar" in sri dasam granth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts