jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Guru Nanak Ji i think got a slap because he didnt sell the food, he just gave the food for free? You do get some parents who do even worse, by sexually abusing their own childern. Guru Nanak Dev ji got a slap and he never argued or spoke back ! while I guess if some ordinary person got a slap then they would slap back ! which is sin ! Regardind sexual abuse, I think that you think tooo much far and thinking has no limits.. you can think of all the worse things that can happen, but can you not think one positive thing? are your parents sexually abusing you? Instead wasting time like this it is more beneficial to have faith and surrenderance in God and then see .. what results will God unfold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 jjj, what about Fred West's children, should they 'love' and 'respect' their parents? Your post was nice and wishy-washy, pity it didn't take into account that there are a lot of evil people in this world. (For those who don't know who Fred West is, type his name into Google) You also think too much, are your parents Fred West's type ? Yes or no ! Why not surrender to God and have faith in God rather than thinking of what 'type' our parents are and then see what results it will unfold for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Guru Arjun Dev ji always listenned to his father, where as his youngest brother did not and was always wanting to do meditation, simran..etc..etc , He said he has nothing to do with the world.. But Guru Arjun Dev ji always lived in the Hukam, if father said to goto busienss purpose to Lahore or address the sangats or any other job .. Guru Arjun Dev ji did and finally Guru Ram Das ji(Father) passed Gurgaddi to Guru Arjun Dev ji(son). Is this example small enough for us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 ^ answer the question please. Should the remaining children of Fred and Mary West love and respect them (even though Fred commited suicide in his cell)? Everybody has a different, unique relationship with their parents. Simply bounding them all together to make a nice post isn't going to work in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Warnings :1 You answer me first , If you are a doctor at a local hospital and I ask a engineering question of how to lift a 1 ton stainless steel beam without any crane or other lifting device ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Everybody has a different, unique relationship with their parents. Simply bounding them all together to make a nice post isn't going to work in the real world. **Ram Chandra was son of Kaushilya and she sent Ram to 14 years in forest so that her real son would be king... but Ram Chandra accepted it as an order/hukam and never uttered a single word in protest and gave her full respect and love nothing less than a real mom. **Warnings1, The problem is with our ego, our thinking, the filth inside us. There is no filth outside ! or in our parents ! **Shraman served his parents to death, seeing God in them. He according to some sources later took rebirth as Gautam Buddha. **Prahlad , kept reiting the name of God even though His son father who was an evil man refused him and asked him to recite his own name. His father was going to kill Prahlad by asking him to climb on a hot pillar , when God came and killed the father of Prahlad and Prahlad even after the death of his evil father is asking God if his father will be liberated and God assures he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 My takallus isn't "Warnings1", its Beast. lol Where the hell did that question abt steel beams come from? And why do you want me to answer you first, your ego perhaps? You gave me many examples of famous figures who sacrificed their livelihood for the sake of their parents. I gave you one example of why its nice to have that ideal of doing everything your parents want of you, but in reality its not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 My friends Gurbani is BRAHM and only a person who has met with God can understand Gurbani. What you said above totally contradicteds to what your trying to say. You say that Gurbani is BRAHM, it probiliby is, but then u'll be trying to find yourself looking for Sants all the time just to find out the meaning of Gurbani. And you said the only sant is Guru Granth Sahib, i agree with you on that. But when wanna try to find out about Gurbani, whos the best person you can rely on, if you wanna find out about Gurbani? The only person that you can reply on if youself and Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Everyone needs to do their own resource with the need to gain Spirtual Knowledge. JJJ, you must have done your own resource to come to yourown conclusion? I dont copy other sants but i do listen to them for guidance. Waheguru does talk to us, this is what i also believe in strongly. The only way your ganna find out about Gurbani is if you look inside of yourself first and try to understand what you really are, Naam Japping will help finding yourself, if you have faith Waheguru will teach you through life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I agree with beast from what ive seen, i dont beleive for one second our parents should be put first before anything. Our sikhi is the most important thing, and sometimes our sikhi can help lift our parents too, in regards to spiritual life. I know many singhs who have bad upbringings and through their love of sikhi, they have managed to help teach their parents a thing or too. Had they put their parents first, they would never have had the chance to do so, because they woulda been forced down the pub!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Beast, that is not ego. YOu failed to understand my question. It is simple... if u dont know about steel beams .. then u can not answer my question. Similary , if u r not in the shoes of fred'schildren then u cant answer that question nor can I . If you were.. then you'd probably know what to do. Simply by reading or talking we can not help other people, we have to be in there shoes. again read my above post. Let me tell u a sakhi, there was this boy was interested to learn archery, but his Guru didnt want to teach. This boy learnt it secretly by watching his Guru teach others, when his Guru found out that the boy had learnt it secretly and had become a good archer. The Guru asked the boy to cut the thumb of his right hand and the boy without hesitate cut off his thumb knowing that he would never be able to do archery the rest of his life. SO THIS IS HUKAM, ADHERENCE TO DHARMA/DUTY... If you dont have this quality in you, then u are far from even following the Hukam of Guru !! Its simple as that. ... those of who say on sikhawareness they follow the hukam of Guru. i can tell them that even if Guru sahib was appear to them in real-life, they would not even be able to follow a single hukam of Guru Jee.... They would fail hopelessly ! I can write down and tell.. that not a single person on sikhawareness can follow the hukam of Guru jee.. Not a single and that includes me. All ppl will talk big, but they cant follow hukam, they dont demonstrate in practical life. There is a famous saying "In the mouth there is God's Name, but in the hand there is a knife." you guys will slander u r parents and do nice seva at the Gurudwara. That is useless crap ! but if u do seva of ur parents or other human beings by seeing God or Guru Nanak in them, then consider u have done seva of u r Guru ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 You see sikhi, god, parents, brothers, world different from each other. A Real Gursikh sees only God and everything as Same.... so you dont rate or prioritise things like that. He sees only "God..God..God..God" .. everywhere. In parents, friends, teachers he sees only "God" While u are seeing it different. as for Rupz, he simply failed to understand what I said. Okay go u r way. I NEVER MYSELF LOOKED FOR SANTS.... God simply made them meet me out of no where. They met for a day and then they left.. I didnt get to attached to them and I didnt follow them. This is Lila or Games of God. You can not understand Lila or Games of God. You are trying to use Logic, Logic doesnt work. That too is the hukam of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 What you said could be Slanderous, you dont know us, you dont know how we live. Your talking in ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 What you said could be Slanderous, you dont know us, you dont know how we live. I know you are Great, RupZ _/_ You are the top Guriksh and you live a Gursikhi life style so pranaam to you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 No im not, im still trying to live like a Gursikh. What am trying to say is that dont be proud of your own knowledge, this alone can make you an egotist, im not trying to say that you are. The best way to find out about gurbani is looking inside of yourself first and try to understand what you really are, Naam Japping will help a lot finding yourself, if you have faith Waheguru will teach you through life. Im not Amritdheri yet, but im trying to make that my aim, but before then im trying to make myself stronger from the inside and then Maya will have a difficult time trying to control me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 No im not, im still trying to live like a Gursikh. What am trying to say is that dont be proud of your own knowledge, this alone can make you an egotist, im not trying to say that you are. The best way to find out about gurbani is looking inside of yourself first and try to understand what you really are, Naam Japping will help a lot finding yourself, if you have faith Waheguru will teach you through life. Im not Amritdheri yet, but im trying to make that my aim, but before then im trying to make myself stronger from the inside and then Maya will have a difficult time trying to control me. RupZ, I will take your advice of not being proud and egoistic. I agree with your saying that we should look inside and not at Sants and there biographies. I am not slandering them.. but if you really wanna know.. I'll tell u. If u ever meet a God-realized Sant, it is just a blessing of God. You dont have to search them or look for them or read biographies.. You will get nothing. But God will give you sangat of Saints and Mahapurkhs for one day or two days or more and whatever message God has for you it will be delivered by the Sant. What we SHOULD NOT DO IS... that we should not get attached to sants. We SHOULD NOT Hanker after them or look for them for inspiration. In simple we we should not become there disciples. As soon as we are done with them.. we should completely leave them. What most ppl will do is that they will never forget them and they will indirectly make them as there Guru. Then it is like "Sant Ji and SGGS" in reality it should only be "SGGS , ONLY SGGS" When ppl follow sants.. they loose, becoz sants can not deliver u. Long-time ago I had bad time practicing nitnem, I even stopped for one week, but then one Gursikh met me and all of a sudden he asked me only about doing nitnem and only about nitnem and then He told me never miss nitnem and from that day .. I have been doing nitnem regularly and it happens without self-effort, even if I am late I still tend to complete it. There are some days that I miss, but usually I do it. I am not following that Gursikh, that person came for 2 days and he left. He forgot me and I forgot him. I dont talk to him. So sometimes God sends small messages through Sants, it is noghitn but a blessing. We should Hanker after them !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Ur making alot of good points, but as mentioned veera, i dnt entirely agree with the concept of listening to ur parents about everything. Although guru ji took the slaps with humilty, he did indeed go against his parents wishes of giving money to the poor. Of course we shouldnt disrespect our parents or anything, but we shouldnt have their word as the be all, end all. With this mentality of hukkam, we might as well not have brains, and let people make decisions about everything for us, after all god is everwhere!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Yes i know Guru Granth is the only Sant and we should be Guru Jis Sikh not a "Sants" Sikh. I have the same experience has you have. I had a difficult life before, i was in Uni, i felt i was losing it, but then i met a guy from my sikh soc. at uni. I taken this as Wahegurus grace. Before i met him i was searching for the truth, but i didnt feel rules from some people fitted with Sikhi. But theres a difference within Raht and Rules. I ask this guy sooo many times can you teach me what sikhi is, and he showed me, he said. "if you wanna learn about sikhi then you go to Guru Granth Sahib and look for yourself, if you see Guru Granth Sahib as a Book then you will not Succeed". Then he also said, "have you ever done Waheguru Simran", i said no, "Then he said just try it, if you dont gain anything from it, then theres no need to do it". Then i did, i felt something soooo different my whole life changed!! My thinking even changed. I met all these different kind of people afterwoulds that were into sikhi, i felt like i was at home!! I Met soo many people, i kindda knew that they were brought by Wahegururs grace, so i was greatful to Waheguru, now i think of Waheguru nearly all the time. Before i used to go Gudwara like once in a blue moon, now i go nearly 3 times a week, because of the Sat Sangat and Guru Granth Sahib. I knew god was everywhere, thats why i felt before it wasnt anygood going to the Gudawara @ first, but now i know its good!!! But sadly this friend of mine who shown me Guru Granth Sahib ji, has died. I feel it was by Wahegurus grace that we meet each other here too, we learned off each other here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 That was a nice post rupz! Kinda the same thing happnd to me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 . I ask him sooo many times can you teach me what sikhi is, and he showed me, he said. "if you wanna learn about sikhi then you go to Guru Granth Sahib and look for yourself, if you see Guru Granth Sahib as a Book then you will not Succeed". Then he also said, "have you ever done Waheguru Simran", . This correct answer and this is what all true Gursikhs will tell u, not the wanna bes. so from then on , I guess u had refuge only in SGGS and nothing else and after that answer you got. I dont think you need to ask again "can you teach me sikhi?" becoz only and only SGGS can teach u sikhi, no human being can make u meet Guru sahib not matter how big a Sant he is, no one else can ! and no matter how much u read biogprahies of these sants.. they are not going to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I agree but then disagree..i mean prior to the compilation of the guru granth, our gurus themselves i.e bhai lehna (later guru angad dev ji) was a disciple of guru nanak dev ji maharaj. He was given the jot later in life yes, but he still needed guru nanak dev ji for that initial step. Alot of us need this teaching from sants/sangat,etc too. Also u say we shouldnt listen/dwell about sants too much..agreed..but then the same granth ur telling us to seek refuge in, is the same granth which contains the praises of god, from saints. In essence, we are turning to saints..arent we?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 You need the heart felt effort and the drive to search for the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 I agree but then disagree..i mean prior to the compilation of the guru granth, our gurus themselves i.e bhai lehna (later guru angad dev ji) was a disciple of guru nanak dev ji maharaj. He was given the jot later in life yes, but he still needed guru nanak dev ji for that initial step. Alot of us need this teaching from sants/sangat,etc too. No. You dont need and if you still hanker after Sants, you wont get anything. Zero. Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the Guru Nanak. ... So are you going to follow Guru Nanak Dev ji or are you going to follow a Sant ! You have to have unwaivering, strong steel like faith in SGGS as the same as Guru Nanak Dev ji. Our teaching is from SGGS. Do you know simply by looking at SGGS, you can get all your questions answered, all your teachings.. You dont even have to read. You have to have FAITH ! No Sant can liberate you. No Mahapurkh. Only SGGS can. I am not going to use the word Sant again as Sant refers to only SGGS the rest of other sikhs are only Gursikhs. Moreover it is the Hukam of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji to consider SGGS as the Guru. Yes we can learn from banis of other bhagats in the SGGS, but that is not a signal to take refuge in Sants. Anyways, I have had my share of Sants. God has showed me a lot of Sants from crooks to real brahmgyanis & everyone have there different stories and different saying. No one will say the samethings. All are different from one another. There is no use following them and if u do meet someone just listen to them, take what u need - leave the rest and give them a good farewell and bye bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 (and i wasnt being rude before i get told off! i was just being witty veera, before u take the last comment the wrong way!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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