ironlion Posted May 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! OK beast a specific example. When modern Budha Dal do Amrit Sanchar they sepreate all the so called different castes. Caste is hindu mat and totally against Sikh beliefs. Please answer on this specific example. Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! beast please can you answer on this specific point as I have read that post and mr lalashvari wrote: One also has to keep in mind the fact that casts also change their position in society. Jatts are classified as shudras but Jatt Sikhs because they joined the Khalsa are considered kshatriya even though many have not discontinued with the habit of drinking alcohol made out of grains (sign of low caste) whereas wine is the kshatriya drink par excellence because of its nobility (and less likely to get you drunk). I think the reasoning of Budha Dal is: everyone can be a Sikh but sepately. This apparent contradiction exists in other medieval movements in India and shows how resilient castism is. REgarding the separate amrit for women... kirpan da amrit is not for women alone but is more suited for women and I guess it just became a norm among the Nihangs. When Guru Jee blesses you with Khanda Batte da Amrit you become The Khalsa. Army of God. When Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Maharaaj Jee asked for a head in Vaisakhi 1699, he did not ask for a caste, colour or creed or even male or female. Guru Jee asked for a head, and with Vaheguru's Hukam, 5 Piarey stood and gave their heads. The backgrounds/caste were different with Guru Jee's blessing they became One, the brotherhood of Khalsa. Guru Jee didn't give Amrit seprately and they drank from the same Amrit da Batta (iron bowl). Also the post by lalashavr when it says that "kirpan da amrit is not for women alone but is more suited for women" is totally against Gurmat. Guru Jee blessed ALL sikhs with Khanda Batta da Amrit. beast again I ask you the question : Do you agree that caste in hindu mat ? So would you agree that when Budha Dal are seperating people along the lines of caste that it is hindu mat and against Gurmat ? Please answer to this specific question. Do not take offence but do not diverse from topic as I got better things to do. Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, VAheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Iron bhaaji, This is buddal amrit-sanchar post: http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=3312 May i request something??? I think instead of working towards difference's we should work towards simialarities and unity between sampardha's!!! Lets work together as khalsa panth as whole and fight those rss guys... since akaal takth (sgpc) is an supreme authority in khalsa panth you cant expect answer from budda dal because they are not in power of akaal takth seeva right now. Its simple concept .. I dont know why you are not gettin it. In puratan times if there was some problem... there were sant smagams held and all sampardha's get together and work on the problem together. For example- Like 30-40 yrs back there was a problem in panth. All the modern raimaie were changin Mandals in siri guroo granth sahib ji. There was sant smagam held in rara sahib where all the sampardha got together and dealt with this huge problem like burning the printing press and full protest was held against ram raie's who had guts to change the mandals in siri guroo granth sahib ji. They got their lessons. I think unity is must!!. One sampardha alone cant do jack when it comes to panthik issues!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Ironlion, you're digressing very much from the topic at hand, but here goes. Firstly, the first I knew about seperate Amrit Sanchar for 'low castes' was when I read the thread that I gave a link for. So if I didn't agree with any of the points that members had made in that thread I would have raised the issues. As it is, I agreed with members such as lalleshvari when they made the following post in that thread: That's maybe one of the only problems I have with Budha Dal personaly and that is an issue Budha Dal will have to deal with.But then again (even though I disagree with it) the position of Budha Dal is more honest than that of the SGPC who claim to be egalitarian but is in fact dominated by Jatts hence the existence of Ramgharia or Ravidasi gurdware. There is a problem and it needs to be solved NOW! Obviously I believe that segregation by caste is wrong, but caste is not exclusive to Hindu's alone. Unfortunately, the ideals of seperating societies into divisions based on family lineage is not restricted solely to India. Also the post by lalashavr when it says that "kirpan da amrit is not for women alone but is more suited for women" is totally against Gurmat. Guru Jee blessed ALL sikhs with Khanda Batta da Amrit. The issue of Amrit for women has been discussed elsewhere many times. Lalleshvari and others have become parrots of sorts because they constantly end up repeating themselves since members never bother using the search facility. You seem to be asking me a question regarding Amrit when those more informed on the subject have expressed their opinions elsewhere on this site already! 1. Currently there is a serious drugs/nusha problem in punjab. The youth without work and going away from Sikhi have latched onto drugs. There is even alcohol produced which has written on the bottle 'For Punjab only'. How would the admin-cut promoting intoxications deal with this Drugs problem ? 2. Also the Sikh Faith is being attacked by the Right Wing Hindus. They are changing our History and making us out as Warrior-Hindus. They have been several posters of the Sikh Guru's depicted in the 'Cow', there are pictures of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur being depicted as the 'Great Hindu Warrior'. Childrens books in Schools have been changed stating that Dhan Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib was Hindu and gave Shaheedi for Hinduism. The Hindu Youth have produced magazines and placed Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Jee as a Hindu Scripture. These are just a few examples. Do not take offence but do not diverse from topic as I got better things to do. You've gone from blaming Nihangs for all of Punjab's social problems and for RSS propaganda to discussing the notion of seperate Amrit Sanchar for women, and yet you accuse me of diversing from the topic! :roll: Quote: There are plenty of participants on these forum for example that see themselves as part of the hindu indian nation and then go round telling everyone what Sikhi is as they know it all because they have read a lot of literature. ^ Explain. Fully. With specific examples. Also, I see that you didn't question the viewpoint I made about Marijuana. I take it that you have realised the naiivety of your original thoughts regarding drug abuse by youths and 'drug' use by some Nihangs. Admin, I have repeatedly asked ironlion to explain his accusation about members of this site who see themselves as part of the hindu Indian nation. He has yet to explain this accusation, yet wants me to answer his questions first even though there are members more knowledgable than myself to give a qualified answer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Agree with N3O. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironlion Posted May 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Vaheguru Jee Ka KHalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Obviously I believe that segregation by caste is wrong, Thanks for answering the question. So we are agreed that this is hindu mat and against Gurmat. The point of this discussion was that if we any group (applies to any sampridya) is or individuals are promoting ideals that are against Gurmat then we should all say that it is wrong. The point is about hyprocisy and also to make each other aware when any group is going against gurmat. I agree with N30: "I think instead of working towards difference's we should work towards simialarities and unity between sampardha's!!! " but also to add we should be aware when any group or organisation takes actions under the guise that it is Sikhi, when in fact it is against Sikhi. Bhul Chuk Maaf Vaheguru Jee Ka KHalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Obviously I believe that segregation by caste is wrong, but caste is not exclusive to Hindu's alone. Unfortunately, the ideals of seperating societies into divisions based on family lineage is not restricted solely to India. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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