WAHEGURU is formless

[Guest]

Sum sikhs dat i kno mistake waheguru as being da our 11th Guru or ne of da previous Gurus, y is dis? Pls answer dis.

I believe dat da Gurus r not god because god never dies, waheguru is beyond birth and death. Da Guru Granth Sahib is not god, but it has da same power as da previous Gurus. Da Guru Granth Sahib Ji will show u da way 2 waheguru and not 2 it, dats y we honor and give respect 2 da Guru. I believe da Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a slave 2 Waheguru.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji said dis once 2 us lot, "Those people who would call me (Gobind Singh) the Immortal Waheguru would be thrown into deep hellish infernos". Do ppl kno dis?

Wot i believe is dat Waheguru is god and not da Gurus. Don't get me wrong i luv and respect da Gurus for giving me der wisdom.

Pls reply and correct me if i'm lost and wrong, but i tink i'm right.

[sevak]

My freind in Sikhism there is no place for Two seperate things(Guru and God). Guru and God are both one thing. I know this is one topic that confuses many. but in order to understand this one must need to meditate and do simran.

Guru is immortal and doesnt die. It is the same jot as God. The only diference is that Guru comes in the body form so that people can learn, but the soul of the Guru is the same as that of God, both are same and identical there is no difference. The job of the Guru is to show the Sikh the God that is within the person , to unite the sikh with the God. Thats all.

In the Ultimate state of reality.. all that there is God. The Self, Guru, God are one and the same thing.

He Himself is the True Guru; He Himself is the Lord. He Himself unites in His Union. --SGGS PAGE 41

The Guru is the Transcendent Lord, the Supreme Lord God. The Guru lifts up and saves those who are drowning. ||2|| -SGGS PAGE 49

The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all. -SGGS PAGE 53

Know that there is no difference between the Guru, the True Guru, and your Lord and Master. Meeting with Him, take pleasure in the Lord`s devotional service. -SGGS 77

[Guest]

Guru Gobind Singh Ji said dis once 2 us lot, "Those people who would call me (Gobind Singh) the Immortal Waheguru would be thrown into deep hellish infernos".

I also believe dat waheguru resides wid all living tings. And i do believe dat w

I believe da True Guru as being waheguru. I tink Guru Nanak said once, my Guru is da Lord himself (Can ne give me a complete version, pls). But i don't kno dis line by line, so jus take it as a pinch of sult.

Below i've got dis from my Sikh Society CD from Middlesex Uni. These r not my words.

CHAPTER 6: APNEE KATHA

(SELF NARRATIVE, SRI GURU GOBIND SINGH)

CHAUPAVEE

Now I am going to narrate my own story;

I got to know the technique through hard meditation.

Where lies the snow covered Hem Kunt in Himalayas,

Where seven peaks are gracing near to each other. (1)

That location is called ‘Seven Peaks’;

Where the father of five Pandavas, second son of Shaantnoo Raja,

meditated*;

There I resolved to do excessively and extremely hard penance,

And I worshipped the Supreme-death, God, Kalka. (2)

This way my disposition had become such

That from two, God and myself, we had merged into just one.

I worshipped the Formless, who is above any worldly elements,

And I adopted many ways to hard penance. (3)

I did so much and such a service to the Lord

That He became extremely pleased with me.

Then, He gave me a command, and

Only then I took birth in this world (in Kalyug). (4)

I didn’t want to come down to the earth

Because my internal vision was fixed in the feet of the Waheguru;

The Lord gradually counseled with me, and

Finally, sent me to this world. (5)

DESCRIPTION OF AKAAL PURKH

THROUGH THIS LOWLY CREATURE, SRI GURU GOBIND SINGH

CHAUPAYEE

When I, the Akaalpurakh, first created the universe,

Amongst my creations turned out to be miserly-inflicting-demons;

They became mad with their mystical and muscular powers, and

They would not worship the adorable Creator. (6)

* Yaadovanshi Raja Shaantnoo’s second son who was the father of Yudhishtar, Bheem, and Arjan, etc, the five pandvaas

Chapter 6: Apnee Kathaa Bichitra Naatak

Then, out of anger, I destroyed them all in a short time;

And, instead, I created gods and angels.

They, too, mustered considerable power and glorification;

And, started assuming to be God themselves. (7)

Shiva started to call himself Immortal;

Vishnu also equated himself to the Creator;

Brahma called himself the Supreme, and

No one considered the Lord as the Lord. (8)

Then, I (Waheguru) created eight witnesses, the sun, moon, fire, wind,

Yamma, element, axis and Dhruv,

To certify the existence of the Lord;

And ordered them to worship the Akaalpurakh, and declared

That there was no one else worshippable. (9)

Those who didn’t, or couldn’t, recognize the Supreme;

Started calling themselves as the Ultimate.

Many started worshipping the Sun and the Moon,

And many accepted the powers of fire and the wind. (10)

Some called the stone, the Saligram, the Waheguru;

Some, taking the baths regularly started calling the water, the

Supreme.

Many got scared indulging in various forms of acts and imitations,

But Dharamraaj recognized and accepted only the Infinite. (ii)

When the Omnipotent could produce witnesses for His cause;

When they came to this world, they would start calling themselves the

Divinity;

The real meaning of the Immortal would be forgotten;

They all got worried about their own glory and splendor. (12)

When none of them accepted the existence of the Eternal,

The Lord created the progeny of the mind, the human beings;

They, too, got under the influence of worldly attachments,

And started assuming the statues, and idols of stone as the Providence.

(13)

Then the Lord created the saints and seers;

They, too, didn’t acknowledge the All-powerful.

If someone was made intelligent and wise enough,

He/she, too, started his/her own sect or religion. (14)

No one recognized or attained the Supreme Being;

In fact, they all increased the divisions and ambiguities;

They would promulgate their own traditions and rules,

And, no one would, after having been indoctrinated by the cult leaders,

follow Akaalpurakh’s commands.

(15)

Whosoever attained even an iota of ‘powers’,

Would initiate their own religious divisions;

No one gave cognizance to the Creator;

Chapter 6: Apnee Kathaa Bichitra Naatak

Rather, became mad and insane by continuously indulging in covetedness

(ego, I am).(16)

Chapter 6: Apnee Kathaa Bichitra Naatak

The principal essence was not recognized nor appreciated by any one;

Each one was involved in a variety of vanities;

Again, when He created kings and ascetics;

They, too, initiated actions in favor of their own memories - Simritis.

(17)

As they became devotees of these memorial descriptions,

They went farther and farther away from the tradition of the

Omniscient;

Those who concentrated in the feet (humility) of the Benefactor,

They did not come even near the tracks of the Simritis. (18)

Brahma created four Vedas,

And preached only the actions and deeds prescribed/described therein

and made them prevalent amongst the people;

Those whose concentration was confined to the love of His feet,

Would have abnegated themselves from the Vedas. (19)

Those who relinquished their dependence on books and Vedas,

They became the true adherents of the Preserver;

Their advice was based on true sermons,

Many miseries of various kinds were ground and destroyed under them.

(20)

Those who even bore tortures over their bodies, (to be able to attain

Him)

They would not give up their adoration for the Lord; (this is a strange

paradox)

They would gradually move towards the land of Waheguru;

And, then, there remained no difference between them and the Absolute.

(21)

Those who were terrified by the books, the Vedas,

They would abandon His path, and acquiesce to their commands;

They would, ultimately, go to the hell, inferno region, and

Would continue to be revolving in the cycles of births and deaths. (22)

Then the Lord created Duttatrey, the founder of ascetics (jogis);

He, too, started his own religion;

He decorated his hands and nails, and locks of his hair,

But did not follow the teachings and the advice of the Preserver. (23)

With Akaalpurakh’s blessings was created the Gorakh,

His disciples considered him, the Gorakh, the loftiest king;

Piercing their ears, they wore earrings, and

Did not pay attention to either the love of God or the modes of

meditation. (24)

The Lord, then, blessed Ramanand;

He clad himself like a recluse;

He started wearing and playing with a necklace of wood;

No one ever thought about the practices and the traditions of the

Absolute. (25)

If God created saintly persons,

They, too, directed people towards their own self styled paths;

Chapter 6: Apnee Kathaa Bichitra Naatak

God, then, created Mohammed, and

Bestowed upon him the kingship of Arabia. (26)

Chapter 6: Apnee Kathaa Bichitra Naatak

He, too, created another religion, and

Produced princes without the religious symbols, hair, sacred thread,

and their complete form;

He made everyone to meditate on his own name, and

He never preached nor confirmed the name of the Truth, the Waheguru.

(27)

Everyone pushed his own concepts, and

No one gave recognition to the Infinite Spirit;

Then, the Gum says, “The Lord called me while I was meditating; and

He said the following and sent me to this worldâ€. (28)

AKAALPURAKH BAACH

CHAUPAYEE

I am designating you as my son;

I am extending the privilege to you of being my son)

I am creating you to spread my message;

You organize a true religion down there in the world,

And prevent the worldly people from falling into the practice of fake

actions (in stead of remembering Waheguru). (29)

DOHRAA

I, (Gobind Singh), then stood up with folded hands,

And said some words with a bowed head.

The path of ‘truth’ can prosper in this world only

If You, the Waheguru, are by my side. (30)

CHAUPAYEE

For this mission, I was sent to the earth;

Then, I took birth in this materialistic world.

I am relating to you, the worldly people, exactly the way, Akaalpurakh

told me;

I will not invite animosity from any one else. (31)

Those people who would call me (Gobind Singh) the Immortal Waheguru

Would be thrown into deep hellish infernos;

Consider me the servant of the Infinite; but

There is not even an iota of a difference bewteen Him and me. (32)

I am the servitor of the Supreme Being;

I have come to observe the worldly drama;

I am saying whatever the great Master of the universe has asked me to

say;

I will not remain quiet for the mortal world. (33)

NARAAJ CHHAND

I am conveying exactly whatever the Lord said;

I am saying it all without any bias or favor to anyone;

I will not blend with anyone’s fakery;

Chapter 6: Apnee Kathaa Bichitra Naatak

Rather, I will sow the seeds for the unaccountable Waheguru’s Naam.

(34)

I do not worship the statues of stone (or the stone):

Nor do I get impressed with anyone’s guise;

I sing the praises of the Naam of the Endless;

And I have attained the Ultimate, the Waheguru. (35)

I will not acquire the matted hair (tresses);

Nor will I wear big earrings;

I will not favor anyone;

And will do only whatever the Everlasting dictates me to do. (36)

I will worship only One’s Naam, and only one Naam;

That can be employed and be useful under all circumstances;

I will not worship anyone else

Nor will I seek anyone else’s support and protection. (37)

I have meditated only on the Naam of the Infinity;

Have attained the Supreme Flame, the Immortal Lord;

I do not meditate on any other’s name

Nor will I ever utter anyone else’s name. (38)

I am engrossed only in One’s Naam,

And am not involved nor interested with egotistic or vane thoughts;

I am contemplating on the Supreme Waheguru;

Thus, am able to wipe off endless sins. (39)

I am permeating only Your shape and form, 0 Waheguru!

I will not be happy in someone’s donations nor will I be contended in

someone’s giving any kind of alms; neither of these activities will

give me pleasure.

I will repeat only His Naam,

Which will erase countless misdeeds. (40)

[Guest]

Da " 8) " was not intensenional! Dey were der in da artical.!

[sevak]

Guru Gobind Singh Ji said dis once 2 us lot, "Those people who would call me (Gobind Singh) the Immortal Waheguru would be thrown into deep hellish infernos".

Dear Rupz,

These thinsg can only be understood through meditation and not logic, if you try to understand through Logic then you will end up confused and full of contradiction.

God can not be associated with any attribute, form, color, incarnation, name, roop, Guru, prophet or anything else. You can not pin-point to anything and say that it is God. Similarly you can not pinpoint to any Guru and say that it is God. You can not say that Guru Gobind Singh ji is God , because that would mean associating God and pin-pointing it.

God is "not this and not that"

at the sametime the True Guru is God Himself. There is no difference. Guru Gobind Singh ji also said that there is no difference between God and him.

You are thinking of Guru and associating him with the body, roop and that is why you say in your post that he is mortal.

In reality there is no difference between Guru and God. It is ONE AND SAME. In Sikhism there is One Thing ! One THing. No two things !

Anyways, these things are not understood by talkign and reading , these thigns are only understood by meditation and simran.

You could provide quotes and I can provides quotes from SGGS, they might all sound contradictory. In reality all contradictions disaapear once a person meditates on God.

The real fact is that none of us know what the True Guru is , what we are and what God is. The 10 Gurus came in the human frame and have gone, these human frames were not Gurus. The Guru is the Shabad, once we know that Shabad is nothing but the same as God, there is no difference.

[Guest]

Bhagti starts from two ends with one(vaheguroo)

All the gurus were one jot of vaheguroo came in this world did their tasks given and went back to vaheguroo and merge with it (Ocean of Anand) Pooormana Anand..

vaheguroooooooooooooooo akaaaal he akaaal

[Guest kaur1699]

Fateh Ji,

I believe dat da Gurus r not god because god never dies, waheguru is beyond birth and death.

hmm... Guru Arjan Dev Ji has said in the Sukhmani Sahib that

Asthapadee 08, Paurhi 6 we read:

"naanak barahm gi-aanee aap parmaysur"

O Nanak, the God-conscious being is Himself the Supreme Lord God.

In the same Asthapadee, Paurhi 8 we read:

"barahm gi-aanee aap nirankaar"

The God-conscious being is himself the Formless Lord.

The Guru's were no doubt at one with God and thus the quotes above apply to the Guru's...

Da Guru Granth Sahib is not god, but it has da same power as da previous Gurus. Da Guru Granth Sahib Ji will show u da way 2 waheguru and not 2 it,

The Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the word of God... There is a shabad by Guru Arjan Dev Ji that is,

sorath mehlaa 5.

Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl:

parmaysar ditaa bannaa.

The Transcendent Lord has given me His support.

dukh rog kaa dayraa bhannaa.

The house of pain and disease has been demolished.

anad karahi nar naaree.

The men and women celebrate.

har har parabh kirpaa Dhaaree. ||1||

The Lord God, Har, Har, has extended His Mercy. ||1||

santahu sukh ho-aa sabh thaa-ee.

O Saints, there is peace everywhere.

paarbarahm pooran parmaysar rav rahi-aa sabhnee jaa-ee. rahaa-o.

The Supreme Lord God, the Perfect Transcendent Lord, is pervading everywhere. ||Pause||

Dhur kee banee aa-ee.

The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord.

tin saglee chint mitaa-ee.

It eradicates all anxiety.

da-i-aal purakh miharvaanaa.

The Lord is merciful, kind and compassionate.

har naanak saach vakhaanaa. ||2||13||77||

Nanak chants the Naam, the Name of the True Lord. ||2||13||77||

In this shabad, Guru Arjan Dev Ji has stated that 'The Bani of His Word emanated from the Primal Lord'.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the jot of the 10 Guru's; the word of God...

[Nek]

i asked my mum a similar question few days ago (apolygizes if i dont make sense or phased it wrong). she said that god ordered guru gobind singh ji to take birth on earth and set everything right. but the guru refused as he wanted to stay with the almighty. god then said to him not to worry as it will ME (god) who will do everything through him. All guru ji had to do was take birth in human form.

am i making any sense???

help

[Guest]

Nek its absoulety right...guru ji refused the god...then god requested him.. he refused it because.. he was merge with the almighty in hemkunt sahib ji... that he didnt want to come..h

akaal he akaaal

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

neo paji, what do u mean merged iwth all mighty in hekmunt sahib