Malaa

[Mr §ingh]

are you saying that having mala is manmat. so according to you why did our Gurus have malas?

Provide historical referance that they did !

and PLEASE DONT SAY that:

I saw it on pictures

[SAadmin]

Provide historical referance that they did !

and PLEASE DONT SAY that:

I saw it on pictures

Somethings dont need historical ref's....Having faith in them is enuf for it

[Mr §ingh]

Faith for what?

Guru Ji Used Mala :?

OKAy I understand that u can have faith that Guru Ji WAS MUCH MORE THAN A NORMAL HUMAN BEING..

How ever faith that they used mala :?

[Guest Javanmard]

IN all historical accounts like: SUraj Prakash Granth, Guru Nanak Prakash Granth, Parchian Bhai Seva Das it is mentioned that our Gurus used mala. It's not a question of faith: it's there black on white! Go and read it!

[Mr §ingh]

SUraj Prakash Granth, Guru Nanak Prakash Granth, Parchian Bhai Seva Das

can u elaborate on these granths

and enlighten me on who's written them AS I am Ignorant of them ..and havn't evven HEARD OF THEM :?

[Guest]

Mr singh,

check out this thread:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=2507

akaaaaaaaaaal

[Mr §ingh]

Thank u N3O bhaji

how reliable are these GRanths..

and May i ask when they were written?

thanks

[Guest Javanmard]

Thank u N3O bhaji

how reliable are these GRanths..

and May i ask when they were written?

thanks

check Harbans SIngh Encyclopaedia of Sikhism. It surprises me though that as a moderator and as a SIkh you donb't know those texts :shock: they are essential to SIkh history!

[Mr §ingh]

check Harbans SIngh Encyclopaedia of Sikhism. It surprises me though that as a moderator and as a SIkh you donb't know those texts :shock: they are essential to SIkh history!

I've recently bought it

I'm goin to read through it a bit later

being a Mod doesn't mean being God :shock:

I'm here to learn :!: .. Just like you are (Or :?: )

but can u please englighten me how reliable those Granths are, and when they were written

thanks

[Guest Javanmard]

well I think just one sentence is enough:

Without Giani Gian SIngh's Panth Prakash you would not be singing agya bhai akali ki etc... at the end of the ardas!

For the rest: read for yourself!

[Mr §ingh]

well I think just one sentence is enough:

Without Giani Gian SIngh's Panth Prakash you would not be singing agya bhai akali ki etc... at the end of the ardas!

For the rest: read for yourself!

is it so hard to tell when it was written and if its reliable :?

Some people claim

Aggeya pai Akal ki

Was written By Guru Govind Singh ji

can u englighten me ... ?

[Guest]

Please stop arguin over nothing... just go to local gurdwara and get yourself copy and ask gyani if its reliable or not.....story finish

[Guest Javanmard]

The words were uttered by Guru Gobind SIngh but it is Giani Gian SIngh who conserved them in his work. I sometimes ask myself why people want to be spoonfed with knowledge when it is so simple to just open a book :evil:

[Mr §ingh]

Which Book

send some over To Sweden..

Please stop arguin over nothing... just go to local gurdwara and get yourself copy and ask gyani if its reliable or not.....story finish

Which local Gurdwara?

there are two Gurdwars in Sweden

which is a couple of times bigger than England :roll:

Sorry If my Ignorance has DISTURBED anyone :roll:

[Guest Javanmard]

I know Swedish people who are not Sikhs who have made the effort to get those books already and have studied Panjabi and Urdu. If they can do it so can you!!!

You can easily order those books from Chattar SIng and Jivan SIngh in Amritsar. here is their website www.csjs.com. their books are totally affordable.

[Nihal_Kaur]

lallesh making people feel bad and defensive is not the way to spread encouragement to read.

Yes it can seem frustrating, but..... :roll:

[Nihal_Kaur]

OKAY ..I didn't see those recommendations.

cool. 8)

[Guest Javanmard]

Immanuel Kant wrote:

,,Aufklärung ist der Ausgang des Menschen aus seiner selbst verschuldeten Unmündigkeit. Unmündigkeit ist das Unvermögen sich seines Verstandes ohne Leitung eines anderen zu bedienen. Selbstverschuldet ist diese Unmündigkeit, wenn die Ursache derselben nicht am Mangel des Verstandes, sondern der Entschließung und des Mutes liegt, sich seiner ohne Leitung eines anderen zu bedienen. Sapere aude! Habe Mut, dich deines eigenen Verstandes zu bedienen! Ist also der Wahlspruch der Aufklärung." Kant VI 53

translation

Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity

is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another.

This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but

lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another. The

motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own

understanding!

Have the courage to use you own reason and knowledge and stop relying on other people spoonfeeding you :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Mr §ingh]

I know Swedish people who are not Sikhs who have made the effort to get those books already and have studied Panjabi and Urdu. If they can do it so can you!!!

You can easily order those books from Chattar SIng and Jivan SIngh in Amritsar. here is their website www.csjs.com. their books are totally affordable.

Yes I could If I'd ever HEARD OF what they were before a hour ago :shock:

[Guest Javanmard]

well now you! Go and get those books then! :wink: read my previous post!

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!

Naam Japna is one of the three basic qualities for the way of ‘Truthful Living’ laid by Guru Nanak Dev Ji (vis-a-vis Krt Karo, Vand ke Shako, Naam Jappo) and naturally forms the moral fibre of the Sikh Marg.

Whilst Simran is not a specific technique as such, but rather a loving way of remembrance, that is to say sincerity of heart/mind/soul is the essence over the precise technique/posture/method adopted –although the latter will of course play a role in assisting the former and in my humble opinion is not something to be entirely ignored (contrary to what many say today).

One method that has almost universally adopted across all spiritual traditions to assist in the practice of prayer and meditation is the use of rosaries/prayer beads/mala. On a mala, there are generally 108 beads, or some fraction of that number. The question often arises, “Why are there 108 beads?" I have presented below an article on the numerous reasons from spiritual/religious traditions of the world as to the possible reasoning behind this number in addition to those already provided by others on this forum.

PLEASE NOTE: Astrological and Numerological aspects and those relating to Demi-Gods/Goddesses, Tantric Yantras and other such like rationale whilst NOT line with Sikh Thought per se, is provided here for the purposes of understanding/information only.

From the view of understanding Gurmat, I would welcome some thoughts on the following issues that arise in the adoption of Mala for Naam Simran...

1. The basic aim of a mala is to ‘count’ the repetition of a mantra, in our case usually the Gur-Mantr or Mool-Mantr, although this can also expand to include others (but that is another discussion!)

Is this not a limiting aspect, in so far as simran is concerned is should primarily develop and come into being out of one’s love/devotion for Waheguru? Lovers/Devotees do not keep account of their love/devotion inspired action afterall? This is the main thrust of those who strongly oppose the use of a mala (e.g. Radha Soamis)

That said, I have found personally that using a mala to settle into/prepare for swas-gras simran or to aid when one is feeling tried can be useful. On the latter note, Bhai Randhir Singh speaks of the same matter in his autobiography prior to the mystic experiences he had in the lead up to the Gurpurb of Guru Gobind Singh.

2. Given the numerological/astrological roots of the significance of 108 beads (or some breakdown thereof –please refer to the second article at the bottom of this text for details of smaller derivatives of the 108-bead mala), how well does this practice relate to Gurmat?

- In that it is similar to the Brahmanical and Tantrik practices of repeating a ritual a given number of times (11x, 31x, 108x...40 days, 90 days etc, as is common practice within 3HO) to bring about some desired result (whatever that may be)? A practice to manipulate certain energies or deities into fulfilling a certain goal or granting a boon rather that of the Gurmat, which is one of devotion, where essentially the highest desired goal is to have the gift of Naam Simran itself.

- This said, I do recall some Sakhia relating to Guru Nanak Dev Ji using a mala of 101 or 102 beads, although I am uncertain as to the authenticity of this Sakhi (if anyone knows anymore, then please advise). However, working on the premise that this Sakhi has some truth behind it, presumably Guru Ji’s use of a 101/102 bead mala (whichever it was, the point being the break away from the 108 norm) was a indication that the number has no significance and the use of a mala is more a tool to aid the practice of Naam-Simran? Just an idea...nothing else!

Please note, this is not suggesting that something is right or wrong, but simply asking for the sharing personal experiences for guidance and advice–that is to say, here, how useful has using a Mala been in establishing one’s own practice of Naam Simran. One of the reasons I ask is that Gurbani is consistently referring to Naam Simran, although it never prescribes a particular method or technique, in line with the Personal/Mystic relationship that each individual has with Guru Maharaja and Waheguru.

One unfortunate problem that arises out of this however is that it also gives the scores of pseudo-Sikh Sants, Jathas, Ashrams and Organisations a breeding ground to preach their own “one and only†true version of “authentic†Naam Simran. The end result, the one thing that should ultimately bring humanity together (love for a one true God) is yet again used to create splinters in the Panth and outside of it...

I do appreciate that Naam Simran is by its very nature a personal matter that not everyone may wish to share higher experiences of, although I am merely requesting guidance from the Sadh Sangat more than anything else.

Please forgive any errors on my part or any material that may be offensive.

Sat Sri Akaaaal!

NOTE REFERRED TO:

--------------------------------

Below are some of the many reasons which have been given, as well as a few other points of interest. None of these reasons are being promoted here as more or less true than the others. However, you may notice that 108 appears to be somewhat like a road map of reality in general, and the human in particular.

Regardless of the meaning of 108, it is important that if a mala is used to count mantras, the mantra be remembered with sincerity, devotion, feeling, and full attention.

Sanskrit alphabet: There are 54 letters in the Sanskrit alphabet. Each has masculine and feminine, shiva and shakti. 54 times 2 is 108.

Pranayama: If one is able to be so calm in meditation as to have only 108 breaths in a day, enlightenment will come.

Upanishads: Some say there are 108 Upanishads, texts of the wisdom of the ancient sages.

Sri Yantra: On the Sri Yantra there are marmas where three lines intersect, and there are 54 such intersections. Each intersections has masculine and feminine, shiva and shakti qualities. 54 times 2 equals 108. Thus, there are 108 points that define the Sri Yantra as well as the human body.

9 times 12: Both of these numbers have been said to have spiritual significance in many traditions. 9 times 12 is 108. Also, 1 plus 8 equals 9. That 9 times 12 equals 108.

Powers of 1, 2, and 3 in math: 1 to 1st power=1; 2 to 2nd power=4 (2x2); 3 to 3rd power=27 (3x3x3). 1x4x27=108

Desires: There are said to be 108 earthly desires in mortals.

Lies: There are said to be 108 lies that humans tell.

Delusions: There are said to be 108 human delusions or forms of ignorance.

Heart Chakra: The chakras are the intersections of energy lines, and there are said to be a total of 108 energy lines converging to form the heart chakra. One of them, sushumna leads to the crown chakra, and is said to be the path to Self-realization.

Marmas: Marmas or marmastanas are like energy intersections called chakras, except have fewer energy lines converging to form them. There are said to be 108 marmas in the subtle body.

Time: Some say there are 108 feelings, with 36 related to the past, 36 related to the present, and 36 related to the future.

8 extra beads: In doing a practice of counting the number of repetitions of the mala, 100 are counted as completed. The remaining are said to cover errors or omissions. The 8 are also said to be an offering to God and Guru.

Chemistry: Interestingly, there are about 115 elements known on the periodic table of the elements. Most of those, around or higher than the number 100 only exist in the laboratory, and some for only thousandths of a second. The number that naturally exist on Earth is around 100.

Astrology: There are 12 constellations, and 9 arc segments called namshas or chandrakalas. 9 times 12 equals 108. Chandra is moon, and kalas are the divisions within a whole.

Planets and Houses: In astrology, there are 12 houses and 9 planets. 12 times 9 equals 108.

Goddess names: There are said to be 108 Indian goddess names.

Gopis of Krishna: In the Krishna tradition, there were said to be 108 gopis or maid servants of Krishna.

1, 0, and 8: Some say that 1 stands for God or higher Truth, 0 stands for emptiness or completeness in spiritual practice, and 8 stands for infinity or eternity.

Sun and Earth: The diameter of the sun is 108 times the diameter of the Earth.

Numerical scale: The 1 of 108, and the 8 of 108, when added together equals 9, which is the number of the numerical scale, i.e. 1, 2, 3 ... 10, etc., where 0 is not a number.

Meditations: Some say there are 108 styles of meditation.

Paths to God: Some suggest that there are 108 paths to God.

Smaller divisions: The number 108 is divided, such as in half, third, quarter, or twelfth, so that some malas have 54, 36, 27, or 9 beads.

Hinduism: 108 is said to refer to the number of Hindu deities. Some say that each of the deities has 108 names.

Islam: The number 108 is used in Islam to refer to God.

Jain: In the Jain religion, 108 are the combined virtues of five categories of holy ones, including 12, 8, 36, 25, and 27 virtues respectively.

Sikh: The Sikh tradition has a mala of 108 knots tied in a string of wool, rather than beads.

Chinese: The Chinese Buddhists and Taoists use a 108 bead mala, which is called su-chu, and has three dividing beads, so the mala is divided into three parts of 36 each.

Stages of the soul: Said that Atman, the human soul or center goes through 108 stages on the journey.

Meru: This is a larger bead, not part of the 108. It is not tied in the sequence of the other beads. It is the quiding bead, the one that marks the beginning and end of the mala.

Dance: There are 108 forms of dance in the Indian traditions.

Praiseworthy souls: There are 108 qualities of praiseworthy souls.

Mala Sizes and Designs

---------------------------

The traditional number of mala beads is 108 in the Buddhist, Hindu and yoga traditions. (For instance, the Hare Krishna movement suggests that devotees repeat their mantra 16x108 times daily.) However, many prefer a smaller mala which is easier to use and carry. For that reason, most of my malas are a fractional number of beads and can be work around the wrist or neck, or carried in a pocket.

Here are the standard sizes for malas:

9 beads (12 repetitions equal one complete round).

12 beads (9 repetitions equal one complete round).

18 beads (6 repetitions equal one complete round).

27 beads (4 repetitions equal one complete round).

36 beads (3 repetitions equal one complete round).

54 beads (2 repetitions equal one complete round).

108 beads (1 repetition equals one complete round).

[Guest]

Great post Niranjana veer ji

Also here is something from nanaksar on malla:

source: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/8399/...sar/FRAMES.html

Baba Ji recommended the followings for all Sikhs to follow :

One, who is literate, should read Sri Guru Granth Sahib

from the beginning to the end at least once in a month and then perform the bhog.

or

One should complete 50 paths of Sri Sukhmani Sahib in a month; recite Sukhmani Sahib twice each day.

or

One should complete 250 paths of Jap Ji Sahib in a month; recite Jap Ji Sahib ten times each day

or

One should complete 180 maalaas (Rosary maalaa of 108 beads) of

Mul Mantar (Ekonkar to Nanak Hosi Bhi Such) in a month; recite six maalaas daily.

or

One should complete 80 Maalaas daily of the Gur Mantar “WAHEGURU”.

“WAHEGURU” four times on each bead then the rosary should be rotated only twenty times.

The newcomers were advised to follow the above program;

slowly in early stages till they developed this practice after some days or months.

[Mr §ingh]

well now you! Go and get those books then! :wink: read my previous post!

NOw I shall read about them

and then get them

It would be appreciated if u would be a bit kinder to ignorant people and not discourage them :roll:

N3O BHaji

which abab ji?

can u give the exact url?

thanks

[Guest Javanmard]

It would be appreciated if u would be a bit kinder to ignorant people and not discourage them

Never was my intention to hurt you, but it certainly was my intention to wake you up!

[Mr §ingh]

I know Swedish people who are not Sikhs who have made the effort to get those books already and have studied Panjabi and Urdu. If they can do it so can you!!!

is it posible to tell who it was

as I know most (if not all ) Indians, Pakis etc

basically every who can read and write HIndu Urdu Panjabi