paapiman

Paaji, one of the Singhs, did not know how to swim. What do you expect from him? If he had jumped, he would have ended up being the 5th person, who needed to be rescued. Bhul chuk maaf

Paaji, was that person a Muslim follower? His name was Khuaja jee. Did I get it right? He did not take fish daily to Satguru jee. It was one instance, when he was about to take a fish to Satguru jee. How do we know that Satguru jee accepted it or not? Bhul chuk maaf

Bro, Daas thinks that you are referring to "Vaakh Sidhi", which every person has it. The time for it occurs at either, amritvela or in the evening. This is one of the reasons, our Nitnem is scheduled by Satguru jee at these times. Gyani Kulwant Singh jee and Sant Makhan Singh jee have talked about it. If Daas finds audio references, will post it. Bhul chuk maaf

Insults might be very helpful in one's spiritual growth. Dhan Guru Nanak........toon heen Nirankaar Bhul chuk maaf

Thanks for the above point. It answers a concern raised by a Guest earlier, regarding the use of the "Darling" word. Bhul chuk maaf

Sangat jee: Please have a look at this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3254377/Sikh-man-breaks-protocol-using-turban-save-drowning-youths.html Dhan Guru Nanak.........toon hee Nirankaar Bhul chuk maaf

Paaji, you have a good point, but if we start thinking about all these issues, our mind might become very confused. We cannot justify eating animals, by the above point. According to this line of thinking, one can justify human slavery too. Do you think all the food which we eat, comes through Gurmat approved processes? Please have a look below: Quote Slavery is a reality in many parts of the world today, and the United States is no exception. In recent years, several cases of slavery in the US food system have been exposed and brought to trial. In most cases, the victims were temporary agricultural workers trying to support their families back home. These workers experienced a range of physical abuses at the hands of their employers and were also denied access to their passports and visas. Most cases of slavery also involve human trafficking, which is defined as the act of recruiting, transporting, transferring, harboring or receiving a person through a use of force, coercion or other means, for the purpose of exploiting them.[1] Unquote [1] [1] - http://www.foodispower.org/slavery-in-the-us/ Eat meat, as animals are killed in the process of harvesting. Indulge in human slavery as human slavery has been used in the food system. Both the above statements, are against Gurmat. Bhul chuk maaf

Paaji, it was already mentioned above that: "Historical evidence exists for both, in support of lacto-vegetarian and non-vegetarian diet." For us, Gurbani is above historical sources. Historical evidence can supplement Gurbani, but cannot replace it. There is no verse in Gurbani which explicitly allows meat eating. There is no doubt that Jhatka maryada was introduced by Satguru jee and Sikhs used this maryada for survival purposes. One cannot compare the Sikhs of the 18th century, who were fighting to avoid extermination with the Skhs of today's age. Bro, we cannot start discarding the literal meanings of Gurbani, just because they have deeper meanings. One of the deeper meanings of the above tuks, is as follows: The above tuks might also refer to people, who get intoxicated and go to Prostitutes, but that does not mean that it does not apply to other people, who consume the forbidden food. According to Prof.Sahib Singh, the word "ਪਾਨਿ" is not referring to betel leaves. It means - To drink. According to Amir Bhandar teeka, "ਪਾਨਿ" means to drink and it can also refer to Paan, Supari, etc. This is also correct, according to the context. The word "ਭਾਂਗ" refers to dry tobacco leaf. Now, it becomes clear that "ਪਾਨਿ" is referring to the Paan with tobacco, not the regular Paan. There is nothing wrong in eating Paan without tobacco. Similarly, tea (without tobacco) can be consumed too. Bhul chuk maaf

ਮਨੁ (Man) 1. Mind 2. Soul 3. Body 4. Mantar Dhan Guru Nanak......toon hee Nirankaar Bhul chuk maaf

Wrong Vishraam: ਖੜਗ ਕੇਤ ਮੈਂ ਸ਼ਰਨਿ ਤਿਹਾਰੀ ॥ If the Vishraam is applied at "ਮੈਂ ", then it would result in the following arth - " I am Kharag Kayt (God)........". Correct Vishraam: ਖੜਗ ਕੇਤ ਮੈਂ ਸ਼ਰਨਿ ਤਿਹਾਰੀ ॥ Correct Vishraam is at "ਖੜਗ ਕੇਤ ". Then the arth will be: "Oh Kharag kayt (God) - I have come to your sanctuary." Bhul chuk maaf

Sangat jee - Please share those Vishraams (pauses), which can result in an Anarth (wrong meaning). Wrong Vishraam: ਸੇਵਕ ਸਿੱਖਯ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ॥੩੭੮॥ If one applies vishraam at "ਸਿੱਖਯ " , the arth of the tuk would be - " All my servant and Sikhs are God". Correct Vishraam: ਸੇਵਕ ਸਿੱਖਯ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ॥੩੭੮॥ The correct vishraam is at "ਸਭੈ ", as it relates to the previous verse*. Therefore, the arth would be - "Oh God - May my family live in comfort and ease alongwith all my servants and disciples.". * - The previous verse - ਸੁਖੀ ਬਸੈ ਮੋਰੋ ਪਰਿਵਾਰਾ ॥ Bhul chuk maaf

Some Sexual Imagery in Vaaran (Bhai Gurdas): ਕਾਮਣਿ ਕਾਮਣਿਆਰੀਐ ਕੀਤੋ ਕਾਮਣੁ ਕੰਤ ਪਿਆਰੇ। Kaamani Kaamaniaareeai Keeto Kaamanu Kant Piaaray. कामणि कामणिआरीऐ कीतो कामणु कंत पिआरे । The enchantress wife with her charms made the husband dote on her. 1 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੩੭ ਪਉੜੀ ੧੨ ਪੰ. ੧ ਨਾਰਿ ਭਤਾਰਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਸਿਹਜਾ ਭੋਗ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ਬਣੰਦਾ। Naari Bhataari Piaaru Kari Sihajaa Bhog Sanjogu Banandaa. नारि भतारि पिआरु करि सिहजा भोग संजोगु बणंदा । Husband meets wife and prepares her for further joy. 3 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧੭ ਪਉੜੀ ੭ ਪੰ. ੩ Bhul chuk maaf

Bro, the uthanka of the above shabad states that it was recited to a person, who brought food for Bhagat jee. We will have to consider the context, in this case. According to Gyani Harbans Singh jee, the people who forget Lord and eat buttered bread, will suffer. Please have a look below: Bhul chuk maaf

Dhan Dhan Nanaksar samprada (sect of the Khalsa panth) Dhan Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Rai Dev Bedi jee Maharaaj Bhul chuk maaf

Bro, you have a good concern. Gurparsaad, will try to find an explanation for it. Anyways, do you have any other supporting evidence to prove that chopri roti cannot be consumed? Any other Gurbani tuks? Any historical evidence? Historical evidence exists for both, in support of lacto-vegetarian and non-vegetarian diet. In case of support for lacto-vegetarian diet, there are other Gurbani tuks which condemn meat eating, and there is historical evidence available to back it up, but let's focus on chopri roti. Bhul chuk maaf

It is possible that there is an arth of the above verse, which takes into account a fish killed ritualistically. But, we cannot discard the other arths done by the great scholars above. One also needs to provide evidence, regarding the ritualistic fish, to make that case stronger. Bhul chuk maaf

Note: The only meat allowed to be consumed by a Sikh (for survival/medical purposes), is ritualistic(prepared according to Jhatka Maryada), as ordered by God. Back to the main issue of eating fish. ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥ Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥ - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233|| There are many arths of these tuks. One cannot take one arth and use to discard another one. It is very clear that the above first verse is talking about fish in general terms. It does not have to be ritualistically killed or used in a ritual. None of the scholars, including Prof. Sahib Singh (very popular among Missionaries) have mentioned about ritualistic fish meat . Let's look at the evidence. 1. Prof. Sahib Singh jee 2. Gyani Harbans Singh jee and Fareedkot wala Teeka 3. Amir Bhandar Teeka Bhul chuk maaf

ਅਕਾਲ (Akaal) 1. Deathless 2. Timeless 3. Placeless 4. Three phased 5. Away from sorrow Dhan Guru Nanak......toon hee Nirankaar Bhul chuk maaf

ਦਰਵੇਸ (Darves) 1. Saint 2. The one who is hanging at the door (of God) Dhan Guru Nanak......toon hee Nirankaar Bhul chuk maaf

ਗੋਪਾਲ (Gopaal) 1. Sustainer of earth 2. Sustainer of cows Dhan Guru Nanak......toon hee Nirankaar Bhul chuk maaf

ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ 1. Merciful sight 2. Away from tastes Dhan Guru Nanak......toon hee Nirankaar Bhul chuk maaf

Bro, but did he mention anything about numbers? Thanks Bhul chuk maaf

Hypothetical situation: A asks B for a source - B answers that he heard from a scholar - A asks for the historical source - B finds the historical source - A says that he needs a contemporary historical source - B finds the contemporary source - A says that it is a tampered source Sangat jee - Do we seriously have that much time in life to find the source of the source of the source? We need to trust people too. It is the responsibility of the people, who disseminate information, to verify the authenticity of the material. Satguru jee (the creator of billions of stars) fighting against a million people - Is it really that unbelievable? Bhul chuk maaf

Bro, the evidence provided by Koi paaji. Bhul chuk maaf

Bro, most likely, it should be from a historical granth. Gurparsaad, will try to find the source. Bhul chuk maaf