BabbarSher

Ayatollah Khomeini was a Shia., revered by Shias and acknowledged to ab an authority on Islam by Shias...and what he says in his book about marrying a child and sex with a girl child have been illustrated above. The only justification he can give for such a thing is because of consummation of marriage of the Prophet to Aisha at a young age.

I guess Lalleshvari is a character in the a Novel by Nanak Singh ?? Well even i was confused by the name...first i though Lallesh to be male.............then i found a post where he was referred to as she.....and then it again turns out that he is ia a he ..not a she...phew.. Ok i Guess the topic is finally resolved :-) Lallesh is a he.

well...ummm nothing philosphical in it.......just looks so cute ...:-). Urs is awesome man ..

lol...i love this one as well ;-) hee hee hee lol :-)

Thanks a whole lot man... I am into IT yet I missed out the right clicking and checking properties thing ...lol :-)

anyway.."Iron Bangle"...je koi banda question pucche taan answer kari da hai yaara.... toon taan photoan ch hi gawach gaya .. I asked ya and the whole forum .....can we have a Khalsa Hero Comic strip......the young ones will love that :-) What da ya think... eh ?

Suggestion: Please change your ID to Always_Critical_Lalleshvari. Comon gal appreciate the good work and effort put in by the man. Aah jeda toon layiya hai 'Avatar' aah bada wadiya hai..? Sorceress lagdi hai ..................hee hee hee hee hee hee hee la da da di da la la

Ideal..................I need that Avatar.....................do I need to PM you

great.................can we have a comic strip online ....highlighting the Khalsa Warrior ... that would be awesome.....:-)

I would like to bring forth the following facts to notice: As per the Islamic tradiditons and Quran, the Kaaba is supposed to have been built by Abraham. The Christians and Jews strongly refute this. It is said to be the House of God. The tradition of doing pilgrimage was prevalent before Mohammed with the local Arabs. (It is said to have been initiated by Abraham). Earlier all prayers were addressed to Jerusalem by Mohammed. Later on this was changed to Kaaba. What was the reason behind this ? It seems to have been a concession for attracting more converts. During the times of Mohammed, the Kaaba had the idol of the God 'Hubal' inside it. The Arabs already had the concept of one God Al-Lah, yet they also belived in other Gods. Al-Lah is supposed to be the Moon God. Tha Arabs worshipped heavenly bodies and the idea of moving in circles about the Kaabs is supposed to be emualting tyhe movement of heavenly bodies around the sun. Al-Lah is supposed to have had three daugthers- AlLat, Mannah, Uzzat. These were called the intercessors to God By Mohammed in what are known as 'satanic Verses'. Later on these were reveresed by another verse, which I belive is a bot controversial also as it says .......(and from God's side) in language which suggests, that you covet sons, yet you think AlLah will have daughters. This was done as no one was converting tio Islam, so Mohammed perhaps decided to give concessions. The black stone is supposedly volcanic in nature or perhaps a metorite. The stone is supposed to be divine by Muslims. This combined with the fact that Arabs were worshippers of divine bodies, seems to suggest that the stone is in all probability a metorite (I am sorry If I got the meteor and meteorite thing confused up). The stone is no longer a single piece but was shattered and is now a group of indidiual pieces held together by a some glue. Muslims try to kiss it, much like idol worship. Stone worship was prevalent in pre mohammed arabia. Similar practices were prevalent in Yemen and other places.

Ooh-Young-Man, you are right. In an earlier post, I have given a comment by Ayatollah Khomeini from his book. Ayatollah Khomeini I think was a Shia and I have heard over and over again how Shias do not agree with the Sunnis regarding Aisha's age. The Ayatollah was as evryone knows a widely followed religious leader of muslims. Anyway the links are as follows: Main Site: http://www.homa.org/ http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?Vie...OCID=2083225348 Let me translate it and I apologize in advance for the offensive language. Anyone who has a wife who is less than 9 years old is not permitted having sexual intercourse with her, whether this is a permanent or temporary marriage. But he is allowed to have other forms of sexual activities such as touching her, hugging her for the purpose of sexual pleasure or having sexual pleasure with her thighs even if she is a breast feeding infant!! It is not permissible to have sexual intercourse with her when she is less than 9 yeas old. In case the husband had sexual intercourse with her before she is 9 years old if he did not traumatize (inflict casualties) her, he only committed a sin and nothing else (no punishment!!). But if he traumatized her in such a way that her urinary tract (urethra) and her vaginal canal became one or her vaginal canal with her anal canal became one then it is prohibited forever for the husband to have sex with her (I wonder what kind of punishment it is?). However in the case of the second type of casualty (mentioned above) this punishment is recommended (It is not even compulsory!). In any case of sexual contact she will remain as her wife and will inherit from her husband and her husband cannot marry his permanent 5th wife! He also cannot marry the sister of that lady (that little girl). He should also be responsible for her subsistence all her life even though he divorced her. I also apologize for the poor English but those of you who know Farsi will testify that it is really what Khomeni said. An incomplete English version of his saying is here: http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=...OCID=2083225445 I would like to give the members some links and relevant quotes, therefrom. In case someone wants to read an unbiased commentary on Islam, I would reccomend 'Life of Mahomet' written by Sir William Muir. I had earlier read Islam by karen Armstron, but seemed to short and a bit biased. Life of Mahomet on the other hand is an elborate commentary and the author has been more or less objective. He has been appreciatite where required and equally critical as well. The commentary has been written after what seems to be quite an exhaustive study of all muslim resources. It is also relevant to quote the defination of Paedophilia: http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/pedophiliaTR.htm Some present-day islamic scholars on marriage with young virgins: From: Ask the Imam http://islam.tc/ask-imam/index.php 'Islamic Q & A Online with Mufti Ebrahim Desai Camperdown, South Africa' Question 6737 from Germany - Jan 10 2002 http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=6737 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- {question} i am 45 and married to already 15 years now after the sexual desire of my woman has nearly gone i am looking to marry again. And i would like to marry a woman who is 12 years old, her father and she has also agreed, my first wife told me that it could make problems if it will be a big different in age, and also some of my children are older than my second wife. What is your advise ? And is it allowed for me to have already sexual intercourse with these woman after we are married or to i have to wait till she reach at special age ? {answer} According to the Shari’ah, if a girl is a minor (did not attain puberty), she may be given in marriage by her father. When she attains puberty, she has the right to maintain the marriage or discontinue the marriage. There is no age limit to be intimate with one’s wife even if she is a minor. It is important for you, in your situation, to consider the age difference reservation expressed by your wife. and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best Mufti Ebrahim Desai -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- From: Q & A site of the Muslim Students Organization of the University of Houston: http://www.uh.edu/campus/msa/articl...rriage.html#age ( scroll down to: ) quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question: Is it allowed for a father to force his daughter to marry a specific man that she does not want to marry? Answer: ...... If she is married without her permission, by threat or coercion, then the marriage is not valid. The only exeption is in the case of the father and his daughter who is less than nine years of age. There is no harm if he gets her married while she is less than nine years old, according to the correct opinion. This is based on the messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) marrying Aisha without her consent when she was less than nine years old, as is stated in authentic Hadith. .... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- From: Marriage at an early age http://www.islamicvoice.com/august....arriage.htm#EAR quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question: I have a nine year-old girl who is married to a person at the age of 20..... Answer: ..... Scholars have discussed at length the marriage of a young girl who has not attained puberty and whether her father may marry her away without her permission. If such a marriage takes place it is valid. However, it is perhaps best if the marriage is not allowed to be consummated until the girl attains puberty ..... Also please check out : http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/childbrides.html and for those who cannot visit the site, I quote as below: Some Hadiths on marriage with young virgins & the child-bride Aisha: Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?' ---------------------------------------------------------- Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)." ---------------------------------------------------------- Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151 : Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) ---------------------------------------------------------- Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234: Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. ---------------------------------------------------------- Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90: Narrated Aisha: When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon. ---------------------------------------------------------- Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). ---------------------------------------------------------- Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88: Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). ---------------------------------------------------------- Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236 : Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. ---------------------------------------------------------- Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915: Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. ---------------------------------------------------------- Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4917: Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine.

Guru Granth Sahib contains the baanis of various bhagats, which was tested on the 'kaswatti' touchstone of Gurbaani by the Gurus and then only incorporated. The touchstone itself provided the tool necessary to separte the divine from the non-divine. It is a known fact that the Baanis of various Bhakats was collected and tested by the Guru Ji. Baani by various bhakats was rejected, as well as they were found to be deficent. Moreover the 'jot' in all the Gurus remains the same...from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji and Guru Gobidn Singh Ji (he did not incorporate his baani into SGGS) and the name used in baani by all Gurus is 'Nanak' for e.g. the fourth Guru, Guru Ram Dass Ji says: Page 96 of 1430 jnu nwnku bolY AMimRq bwxI ] [/font:7264b8a3f2] Servant Nanak speaks the Ambrosial Bani of the Word. jan naanak bolai amrit banee. Its amazing though that there is no contradiction of principles anywhere in the Baani despite the different physical authors, testatment to the fact that the Jot was the same and the Baani divine. Please remember that in case of the Gurus there was no 'making a statement' for the prupose of gaining converts and then going back on the same, as happened with the Prophet Mohammed when he acknwoledged the 'intercessors' to Allah in front of the Koriesh at Kaaba. No such compromises were made in the Gurbaani.

Asa Di Vaar ridicules the concept of judgement day. So as sikhs we cant belive in such flights of fancy. If there were any different levels of understanding the Quraan, Guru Maharaj would be well aware of it and would not have made mention of this.

DM Wrote: "Wether we have raj or not, as long as we have degh and ganga mata ki jal, the panth will always be nihari and if its nihari it shall always be chardi kala and in chardi kala you dont need 960 000 000 000 or how ever many 000's you just need sava lakh.. and shianveh karori shaheed singhs, devi, devtas, all on degh.... AKAAAL..... GURBRAKAAAAAAAL," What are Ganga Mat ki Jal, devis devtas...etc doing in ur post ????? Gurbaani rejects all of these...... Like Mr.Singh asks....u owe the board an explanation

Charitropakhyan is not Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Baani and the panth accepted it long time back :-)

N 30 veerji, it is true that there is a shalok in Guru Granth Sahib which says..that call not the vedas false, but thers is also another Shabad by Bhagat Kabeer Ji, whereon he says that it is best to stay away from both Vedas and Quran :-)

Dear Dhoor, The question of not following would only arise if there were differences in beliefs, practices or path of the Gurus and Bhagats. All of the Baani of SGGS is in complete sync and does not contradict itself. There is no separation of teaching of the Gurus and the Bhagats. The Bhagats Baani has been included by Guru Maharaj to highlight with examples what the the 'true path' of attaining God is. However before the Gurus only a handful of people knew what the true path was. The Gurus therefore took upon themselves to tell the masses how to atain God. This is exactly why Guru Nanak Dev Ji and subsequently 9 Gurus were sent by God. Therafter the path was recorded by the Gurus in Guru Granth Sahib so that masses after them could also benefit. Sikhism is for the masses, it is not for a chosen few. :-) I hope this clarifies. Please come with all the questions even though you may feel that there are umpteen. After all thats what this Forum is made for.

I meant I agree with lallesh....

For once ....I agree :-) .........with ya

I am not sure and will check it out but I think the final sentence is: Dhare Kesh Bin Pahul, Bhekhi Mooda sikh, Meri Darshan nahin tis, Bhekhi Tyaage Bhikh like i said i am not sure but as far as I can remember...this is the final sentence.

Use Badam Rogan in ur hair as well as ur skin .... OR use RatanJot in Mustard Oil..... Livon is also good if ya can get it.

errrr...........ShasterKovich.......can we give u the khitaab of Amir Ul Momeneen. (just kiddin ma....dont take it to ur heart)

Dear Truth, Sorry for misunderstanding you. I am not an intellectual....what I have gained is from reading my fathers books and the questions that have come back to me again and again due to a variety of reasons. I had started reading a lot of books by the real sikhs scholars, even when I could only understand them in parts. I hjave tried to keep up with literature as and when I get the time. This site runs on the shoulders of other people...sme of them agree with my view...som dont......but I admire all of them. Maybe under my ego..i may have gone overboard sometimes. At other times I have thought whether is is wise to do 'behas', whether this would discourage the young ones from coming to the forum. I have thought whether I sound egoistic at times....harping on my own way of thinking...why I even thought of quitting the forum altogether. Believe me, I have had some lengthy discussions with a lot of people. I have had personal experiences and have thought on different lines including the one that has been advocated on this post. I have had females questioning Kesh. (sikhs females)....I even have had enticing offer..to join the crew of non turbaned sikh youth from these very females. I have had question being put up by my young cousin on kesh. I have overheard gals on what they wopuld prefer in man..w.r.t. kesh. Maybe this had a temporary negative effect on me, but I grew out of the same....and I have given thought to the Kesh question again and again. I have seen people shun 'clean shaven' youth on forums but at the same time praising Gujrati Sehajdharis including some renowned Professors in the US who wer founders of AISSF. I have heard and read contradictory remarks in the Historical manuals that were metnioned in the posts as authority on sikhism (I am not referring to SurajPrakash Granth specifically). for e.g. And believe me I am not partial to any Jatha or any group. I am almost sick of them for complexiying our simple religion. For e.g. the Sikh Missionaries (and I a do admire them) quote from an old Granth about the importance of Kesh. Yet in the same breath they quote a couple which has Guru Gobind Singh Ji says that Dhare Kesh Bin Pahul, Bhekhi Mooda sikh, Meri Darshan nahin tis....... ie. the fool who has kept hair without Amrit is a showoff. He will not have my darshan. Telle me than that in light of the above quotation where do the Keshadhaari sikhs of today stand. Should they think of themselves as bhekhi? The point I am saying is that these parchine Granths will not stand the test of time. They will be questioned and fall apart. Guru Granth sahib on the other hand is our Guru. The Baani in it is Atal. It is not dependent upon the parameters of time. Hence in my view it contains what to do w.r.t/. spirit in order to reach God as well as some general pointers on the physical aspect of prime importance in sikhism, as well. I dont belive that my Guru will be silent on such an important issue. Surely the Guru would give us some guidance on such an important issue, as in case of using drugs and narcotics. I visited the link you have given. but a simple question any youth would ask me is ....Where has Guru Ji written that we should keep Kesh? This is a simple question and lets have a simple answer. I am not asking Why...if my Guru says something, we as sikhs cannot and must not question that. If we do, we are not sikhs of the Guru. I hope I have been clear now. Sorry if i was rude or hurt anyone with my remarks.

if u dint know....he was one spirtual defender of Islam...... Funny how we even question the good parctices of our religion and raise question about our Gurus, but go out of the way to even defend ...deplorable practices and literature of other religions

Calling sahsterkovich.....calling shasterkovich ;-)