DSG

They had this discussion on the Sikh Channel yesterday ( i havent seen this footage assume guys wearing a purple dastaar, if it is then its the same one) There interpretation was as follows :- 1. there was a demonstration about loss of jobs ) pharmaceutical company) 2. The Police officers take one Singh to their Car ( dont know why he was arrested anyway) One of the officers said , to the Mona Police Officer ( who apparently was a Hindu officer according to the panel on the Sikh Channel) , DONT TAKE HIS TURBAN OFF which obviously means this isnt the first time that particular officer has humiliated the Sikhs and Sikh Kohm 3. The Singh , is peacufully waliking with the officer and not resisting , no way should the officer even touch the Singhs Dastaar. I think this case is for the Sikh council which has recently been formed , even though they probably wont have any major impact in India , but this should be highlighted , I think on all major channels in India , or shown / printed copies on all bill boards in India .

I think that it would be good to have beginners , intermediate and Advance sections , because certain terminolgy for e.g taksalli , akaali , akj ..... dont know there background or meaning , hence limiting especialy me in contributing to certain topics . It would be good to have a structure , something like The start of sikhism , how it evolved , its principals etc...( this section would be fact based with references from books, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ... ( what our Gurus taught us ... i know its open to interpretation but theres many works of scholars / writers out there which ones are authentic , which ones would you suggest to others , which internet sites are authentic ..... I understand the main purpose of this site is to make people aware about sikhism so everyone walks the same walk , talks the same talk ....... whats the starting point for a novice ... then build upon it , have deeper discussions once basic understanding of the Sikhism( all areas) is highlighted and understood ...... like Pinderpal Singhs Katha .... its very good , I understand bits and bobs , but other times he has lost me completely ... what sources has he read , should we do the same ? if so what are they ?.... whats the starting point ? because i believe all religions teachings are good , and the path is already laid out for us 5-600 years ago , but its us humans that change religion according to our needs , i think highlight the changes have a do's and dont's section according to Sikhism . Also Have a section on seva ... like Khalsa Aid ... what they have done or are doing , what there projects are , if any seva dar as assisted Khalsa Aid what there experiences are etc... I appreciate they have there own website , but would be good to have information about several charities

With all the corruption in India , you seriously think the figures published will be accurate ?

Before the entrance ti harmandair Sahib , there is an information bureau , supposedly you can get all the information about Gurdawaras , places to visit in Amritsar from this place Good Luck

Hmmm Thats all they have to say ( dont do it again ) Its a perfect opportunity to use these 4 sikhs to educate the whole of Punjab , thats if the so called Jatehdars want to .

I dont want to sound negative here but why are we going into debt ? There are over 300+ gurudawaras in the UK , couldnt Mata Sahib Academy be opened in one of the Gurudawaras ? Every where you go all you see / hear is , need sangats donations , need money for this , etc... why open at such a big scale , why not utilise the resources we already have ? Kema da jachak heh

As the X security dera wala guy on the Sikh channel said yesterday , the so called local government and central government are on the side of the Dera wala ( mainly for votes , and payoffs) , even if you get the external organisations such as UN , human rights etc.. behind the Sikhs , who will actaully give justice in Punjab ? There has to be some one or thing who cannot be bought hence give justice to the Sikhs , and that someone or thing is what the Sikhs should be searching hard for in Punjab.

knock and it shall be opened onto you seek and you shall find ask and it shall be give to you

superb ,havent laughed so much in ages

I thought it was very light in content and had a general brush over , I still didnt understand as to why Sikhs / indian army helped Britain other than Britain calling for help. It would have been good for the pilot ( Mr Pujji) to be asked why he helped , whether given an option by the army or an order or personal thing ( unless I missed it on the documentary ) One positive , I was watching the documentary (Ithink it was all about the right timing) , my son 5yrs came from school with a poppy , and started to tell me about people fighting in the war and it was to remember them etc.... then I showed him the documentary ( bits of it) in particular Sikh soldiers with Turbans , Sikh Pilots ... he was amazed and felt proud .

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ke Fateh Piaree Sadh sangat Ji , just to share with you Quote from text I received

Wow alot of information there superb stuff guys Yes please, if you have Ustaad Harjinder Singhs details please let us know . I personally think the issue for myself would be how would one know if the correct techniques ( vocals and instrumental) are being applied , for example when doing SRGMPDNS, should one force the voice out or just say them as you are speaking ( even the higher pitch ones) hence request for a good teacher . Anyway , good information

Sorry forgot one thing In Boston , are the sangat part of an organisation ? or do the Gurudawaras listen to the sangat ? I have come across world class renound tabla players like , Ustaad Tari Khan , ustaad Yohesh Samsi doing performances in the uk , and then the organisers hold work shops so that , tabla players can learn from these maestros.

Shaheediyan thank you for the information I will try to find & purchase the books you recommended and hopefully with Gods grace , get back on track , I am based in Birmingham . Manbir , thank you as well , some very good suggestions .

some very good points ... food for thought The issue / challenge in my personal experience is how would one know where to start from ? A novice like myself have been to several teachers , they simply give you a shabad and tell you to practice at home , to me as a starter thats great , i get material , i get to play an instrument , i get to sing and play a composition . BUT is that the correct way , when Raaj Academy did a workshop , telling the sangat they would teach us about taanti saaj and most importantly to me , about raags i thought great , finally there is light .... but sadly due to cost it all fizzled out Shaheediyan although i agree with what you write there is a BUT The sangat have already contributed and still are contributing millions of pounds towards our Gurudawaras approx 300 gurudawras in the uk ... do they not say without the sangats blessing it would not be possible ? Then why cant the sangat utilise the multi million pound Gurudawaras and get good musicians to teach at there Gurudawaras , have vocal and tanati saaj classes , tell the sangat about raags etc., and give payment to the musicians . We can only go by peoples experiences , Shaheediyan and Mabir you seem well versed in Gurmat Sangeet , would you be willing or know of any one willing to have a regular class at local Gurudawaras ( BTW ... I think i can see the light )

RaajK Good post , It is very difficult to find a good teacher who will tell you about the raags and their compositions , simple because they dont know , not willing to share the info , or very rare to find. Hopefully one day , the gurudawara so called committees will keep hold of good Gurmat Sangeet Teachers , and provide the necessary funding to keep the classes running , as its the sangat who request these classes , but no one listens . If anyone knows of good teachers willing to teach tannti saag ( like Raaj Academy as Raajk has pointed out) on a regular and comitted level please let us know , we will get the sanagat interested and approach the Gurudawara comittee . Other than that veer ji , just keep googling , you might stumble on something that your after.

hmmmm , i dont think that question needs answering , deep down you know what i mean

Firstly chatanga1 learn to control your writing if someone doesnt agree with you ( what kind of language is Rubbish, just becuase no one agrees with ypur point of view doesnt make it rubbish .... calm down geezer you one is out to get you , iys just a forum ,, with peoples views .... relax ) Well in fact i knew 17 year old who as well who never questioned where the meat came from just bought it and consumed it .. :ooh :ono you lost me on that one no relevance whatsoever These are just my views , eat all the meat you want or dont want .... it doesnt matter to me

This is a fundamental "must" and not a stupid debate. The result of the so called "stupid debate" would have an impact on whether there should be a jatkha shop . If non-amritdahri ... then does it matter to them where the meat comes from ... i dont think so they will just consume it for the taste and wouldnt careless if its jhatkha , halal , or other.

I'm pretty certain that if they tried hard enough the atheletes could find an alternative for protein in meat. The expense/afforable issue is a different ball game altogether , if they cooked daal for example , it would probably last them longer than meat/fish hence save them money in the long run ( only a minor point i know , but all counts) The OX pulling the cart , is cruelty to animals , once in india i saw a poor donkey , pulling a cart , then on top of the cart 2 people , and 3 steel long gurders. This kind of cruelty I believe you will only see 3rd world countries , the value of life is not much compared to most developed countries. But anyway , i believe the most important is each individual including me ,read Gurbani , practice Gurbani , do seva etc... whole heartedly ... Waheguru will defintely show you the correct path and give you the strength to help others .... end of the day the buck stops with us .

Good question ,, my thoughts on this is that , even thouig Akal Takht have authorised eating jatka meat , I think the biggest problem is we are trying to compare ourselves with the Gurus , and the period in which the Gurus Lived by quoting scriptures according to our own thoughts but common sense prevails you take any animal if you try to approach it , it will either run away , or prepare itself for being attacked therefore will either attack first or defend itself , so for survial reasons as the animals do I believe it is "just" but again there are survial techniques which involve eating plant like things which are enough to survive , how many of us go in the jungle to "hunt" for plants that are edible ? so believe due to our own tastes we adopt to eat meat .. today. I believe its an individual thing . Secondly , peforming jatka , cooking and eating dont go besides meditating and doing paart , you want to focus your mind on waheguru , do simran to control your 5 senses , how can this be done if constantly in your mind you see the poor animal pouring outs its blood and guts ... no way can it be done , you are just adding another barrier to illiminate when doing naam simran i.e. scenario ..... I was doing naam simran , couldnt focus my mind kept seeing the goat .... ) Finally I believe the more paart you do , the more love you show towards waheguru , your mann will automatically put you off eating meat , I knew a guy clean shaven , use to do the whole lot .. eat meat , drink ... by wahegurus kirpa he saw the light , now gets up amrit vela , does seva , ( you can tell by speaking to the guy , that he is practising Sikhism.... we went to a close family wedding where they were serving meat and alchohol , I saw him sitting in his car , and approached him and asked why he wasnt inside .... his answer was the smell of the meat is getting to me , making me feel sick ) ... so I believe waheguru will show you the correct path , if paart and simran are done with sharda ( which we all hope to achieve)

and why would you want to waste this precious life on a cruel act like this ? hmmmmmmmmmm

RaajK I know nothing just a stupid person sitting at home , now and again being offered a cup of tea and samosa hoping Sangat / channels , all can work together spreading the same message not going for the "Balle Balle factor " What are your views RaajK ? Are you thinking of opeing a new channel also ?

I am not disagreeing with you on the kids play but if you get x amount of complaints what do you do ? someone goes to ofcom , what do you do ? , but you are taking it out of context. I'm sure theres arguments for and against on both sides but that is irrelevant. I am not taking any sides against any channel all I am trying to make people aware is , you'll get people from all walks of life , different views , different understanding of Gurbani , etc.. we cant just simply say , due to this they are anti this anti that , they had there chance , the thing we dont realise is , the channels suppose to spread the word of Sikhism , peacefully and hopefully not for personal gain ( WORK TOGETHER ) but due to personal conflicts Sikhs are not big enough to forgive and foregt and move on rather hold a grudge ... why ? what will it achieve .... a fix for the ego ?. If RA are working with Sikh TV then good for them I hope they can educate the sangat as they say they can with proper methods ( i'm sure they will). As you and many say more channels the merrier , so would it not be merrier if they could broadcast their programmes on other channels as well ? End of the day , we can only make suggestions the buck stops with the person who may want to broadcast their programmes. Funding is necessary , and without money there would be no channels . If MR Bal wants advertise his business , so what , whats the big issue .. none .