amardeep

What you mean about the last part

From the beginning it talks about the soul, body, senses and how they are affected by the five vices that leads each of them astray. After a whole life time of indulging in life (by submitting to the five vices) one experiences death. Your verse is the final one attached to the Nanak name which 'sums' up the entire content. It basically says we waste our life indulging in what we should not indulge in.

Why do you find the Panth Prakash of particular importance?

this one has the farsi script http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/displayPageContent.jsp?ID=2779&page=1&CategoryID=1&Searched=W3GX

Sridasam.org used to have the text in gurmukhi but it's been down for a while

Awesome. Thanks for sharing

On the top of my head: Pandit Tara Singh Narotam did'n believe in the Sarbloh Granth as Guru krit whereas his student Giani Gian Singh called included it as the foundation of Sikhi along with Guru Granth and Dasam Granth... Here you have a student who disagrees with his teacher.

It is important to note that samprdaye's - especially the nirmale - are not bound by beliefs, but by scholarship. In this regard it is very normal to see instances where a highly respected student disagrees on an issue with his highly respected teacher. This can be seen in history as well as in present day.

In terms of Persian Sikh literature I would definately say the Diwan-e-Goya of Bhai Nand Lal Goya. Bedi's translation is a really good intro but hopefully a better translation will be made in the near future. It is a good poetic interpretation of Sikhi from a mystical perspective.

Can you do a post and show bhindras translation side by side with your own. F

Tradition goes that these hakayats were sent to Aurangzeb. The story is interesting in the sense that Aurangzeb came to power through his military might, whereas this hakayat alludes to people of wisdom being the true rulers. It could be a sense of saying that Dara Shikoh (Aurangzeb's brother) was to be the right ruler of India. I dont have the Persian text at hand but would be interested in knowing what words are used for some of the terminology in the above english translation. It talks about four brothers, and if I remember correctly - Aurangzeb had three brothers. Basically saying rulership is based on true wisdom and intelligence, not military force.

No I've never heard of that book. Sounds interesting. When you say short are we talking some 10 pages or ?

Being a moderator just means I moderate content so people don't use foul or abusive language. Nothing more than that. Listen. Based on previous experiences with you, I am not convinced that you are interested in any form of debate. You only read what you want to read and don't appear to be willing to understand the view point of the other person..Our approach to debate and study is entirely different, hence I don't think it is fruitfull to discuss anything with you. You have previously written that your purpose of researching old granths is to 'find errors' and smash the arguments of others. Personally I dont find this approach fruitfull and I don't think we've ever had a fruitfull discussion because our premis of debate is too different. If you are interested in why I write the Prem Sumarag Granth is one of the most important books ever written in Sikh history, then ask why I say so. But what you're trying to do is to pull me into a Dasam Granth debate because it appears that the Dasam Granth is all you're interested in. Thanks but no thanks.. I have a lot of friends who dont believe in the Dasam Granth, - we can easily engage in a respectfull debate even though we don't agree, but i've never experienced that to be the case with you... Personally I dont find this fruitfull. You have a very bad tendency of making enemies out of people for no reason , - i've experienced you going onto other websites writing trash about people and me, - why you do so I have no idea... Why talk trash about people just because you disagree with them?? I really don't understand this kind of behaviour and it has nothing to do with charchaa, khoj or vichaar.. I've been to Brussels, Belgium a few times on work visits, and thought of meeting up with you to discuss Sikhi and Gurmat but i'm not sure it would be fruitfull at all as you'll just start a fight for no reason. You put words into my mouth and then start attacking things i've never said. Like above - when did I say it's my absolute fave?? in fact... It would be much better if you participated in this debate by writing what your favorite book is, - instead you just wanna pull people's legs and discuss their opinons because you disagree with them.. You always do this - you don't reply to the topic at hand but rather go for the throat of the members because you believe they are wrong. How does that actually contribute to the topic that people wish to discuss? You've written three posts so far but havent contributed anything at all to discuss the vast and inspiring corpus of Sikhi literature. I've given you credit for in the past, - you actually do raise very valid arguments at times, but your whole approach of aggresive discussion ruins any motivation for me to engage in any dialogue with you. When you make valid points you undermine your arguments by throwing personal attacks along the way.. Why would anyone acutally continue any debate further? At times in the past i've spend hours researching old books to find an answer to one of your arguments, - in some cases it is very interesting stuff you bring forward. But I have no motivation to actually do any vichaar with you afterwards with my findings because you're only interested in smashing people and destryoung arguments - Rather than engaging with texts which is our common heritage..So the arguments you use, I take them and discussed them with other of my well read anti-dasam granth friends to see how they understand these verses and how it fits with their own narrative, and how they relate to my arguments and readings of the very same verses. This is fruitfull. Personally, I dont find your aggresive, competitive and destructive approach that appealing, but others might. So I permit your posts on the forum because other people might want to discuss with you. You are actually very blessed and gifted with your 1) interest in old texts 2) ability to understand the language.. it's just a shame all of these merits are drowned in your aggresive behaviour of attacking people and talking shit about them on other websites... There is no need for this. Now before you begin an aggressive auto-reply attack at me, try to read what I've actually written.

As you have been told many times, write under the name Sikhkhoj when you post stuff, so people know who they are talking with. And read what the topic says...The purpose of this topic is to bring out what members on here find inspirational or of particular interest in the corpus of Sikh literature. The purpose is NOT for members to start discussing individual chapters or sections of each book that people mention, just because there are certain things in it that people dont like...

I'll start: Prem Sumarag Granth. Definately one of the most important books ever written as it reveals the sociological, communal and political views and ideals of the early Khalsa.

Gurfateh What's your favorite book on Sikhi? Whether scripture, historical writings, commentaries, rahitnamas, books in Punjabi, English etc.

http://www.bhainandlal.com/website/ebooks.html

Punjabi yes. English - almost entirely. The Dastur Ul Insha and Arz Ul Alfaaz has'nt been translated yet,

Gurfateh Here is an interesting website that sends out a Gurbani word of the day on email. It takes a word, shows how it is used in Gurbani as well as its etymology in Sanskrit or whatever language it is from. Fantastic stuff http://awordathought.com/

In what way do you think Gurbani makes more sense.

Interesting interview

Just started reading Plato on the concept of state and government.

What abot that Persian quote "Sikhi eh panj muaf" .. It mentions 5 K's also. How old is that, and what writings is it part of?

I dont think neither the bible narratives nor the Puranas are to be read as literary historical documents. And as others have stated in terms of the "first person" it does'nt mean they were the only person.. Many of my Christian and Muslims mates believe Adam to have been the first person created, but at the same time other tribes and populations were created. So it was a flourishing mankind, but Adam was the first amongst many others.

The interpretation focuses on the question of how did the angels know that humans create destruction and wars ? They knew because they had witnessed other humans before adam doing so