tSingh

hey hey hey hold on a minute...thats not it either...although any excuse to see daler doing the dance of eros has to be a good thing... The track I'm talking about was much slower (a mere 125 bpm I reckon!) and more like 'toootak a tootak a tootak a tootak a tootak a tootak a tooootiaaaannnnnnn' with some young whipper-snapper shouting 'aaa yehhh' and 'wan taim for tha leydeez' over it. It was on radio mirchi over here. It was one of those beautiful dumb tracks like prime vengaboys.

This is waaayyyyyy tooo simplistic. Was this written a hundred years ago maybe? It reads like that awful Paramhans Yogananda stuff about east meeting west and all eastern people being ancient himalayan yogi masters, and westerners being raging materialist scientists!

you've misconstrued the meaning of budhi.

Is it really? haha, thats too funny. I clearly have the greatest taste in bhangra. please forgive me amrik.

oops no thats not the track i was after...my wifes' pointed out it tootak x 3 then tootiaaaaaa etc..whats that one then? It was a tota not a kabooter.

THATS THE ONE FREEEEEDDDDD YOU GENIUS kabdak kabdak thing...I thought it sounded a little 'kabooter'. That has to be the best thing I've heard in years. Yes, theth punjabi with theth videos (the ones with a 40 yr old singer who doesn't look as though he's entirely sure where he is). Years ago bhangra made me feel nauseous, but after too many four hour video-bus journeys across punjab I'm hooked...anything with pammi bai grinning like the devil is worth its weight in gold. thanks I'll track that one down.

Honestly, I'm not messing around! I have no knowledge of bhangra apart from an old HMV LP 'Folk Music of Punjab' vol 1. I'll get the truskool thing then. I really want that kabooter or whatever it is. Thats a shame,, but thanks for the info. So whats the mathke mathke one, shinda, gurdas mann and t'other bloke with the glossy video with the ecstatic girls having gallons of milk thrown them onto while gurdas mann wobbles around tapping his drum (so brilliantly freudian!).

Amrik Singh Jio, I know your the bhangra mahagyani on this forum, and I know jack apart from a bit of jazzy b. Now I bought 'daru pi kee' by hussainpuri with the remixes by (is it) kiss n' tell, and they're really good. I'm really not into the garage type stuff that i hear occasionally. But can you recommend anything thats a bit louder, rougher and readier (like some of those mixes). What I mean is proper rough edged singing like hussainpuri (none of that awful UK harmony vocals softy softy voice crap or nachatar gill - I want the real twang of pukka 'pindoo' punjabi), but with good programming? another thing, a bit more ridiculous...whats the name of the album and artist who did that track with the gibberish a bit like 'kabdak kabdak kabdak kabdak kabdak' or whatever, that caused some controversy? I think I might of heard a remix of that one which was divine. ..and one last one, whats the name of the album with gurdas man, shinda and the other one where he goes 'muttke muttke'? hehe, thats really vague I know, ('the track that goes 'taka taka' with the dhol') but any advice would be great.

This may be a stupid question,,, has anyone come across a reference or even heard of a Sufi called Haazar Shah anywhere? There's a range of mountains balouchistan way named after him (is it coincidental that there's the panj pir range in kashmir valley?). All I know is that he was living a fakiri type lifestyle prior to the 18th century. Any wisdom? tah very much

lol you plonker!

jiva atma..its the chitta bit aka one of man-chit-budhi-hankar

doubt as in 'not conviction' about something. It interprets the sensory information and analyses it. Budhi makes a decision on the analaysis. As regards a greater existential doubt that can only happen through budhi's resolve.

re: last comment...how very true!

Since this topic gets used by Javanmard to insinuate something SPECIFALLY about the punjabi Sikh community, I thought I'd post some recent statistics that were in the media NOTE - please use a bit of akal when reading this. I am not suggesting this is acceptable or that we should NOT be massively changing people's attitudes towards it. I am questionning the notion that this is a SPECIFICALLY punjabi thing. Gender Imbalance statistics in birth rates...top offenders in india with distorted gender balances = 1) Punjab 2) Gujrat 3) Gurgaon well, the commonality between all three is that they are the richest places in India outside of a big metropolises. Both Gujrat and Punjab are the top two richest states. Both have become so through agriculture, which means more less educated are have greater wealth. I'm not saying that education is necesarily the cure but I reckon its a factor. Anyone who has been in major punjabi cities on and off over the last few years may have noticed a proliferation in private pre-natal scanning clinics (jalandhar's full of them). More money = more pre-natal scanning I reckon. My theory is that this is a prevalent attitude throughout India not just among punjabis (clearly among gujratis also)...and given enough opulence it will be a nationwide thing, particularly at the less educated level of society. to repeat before any twisting happens..this is not a 'well they're doing it as well' defence of this...its evidence that its a problem inherently pan-Indian rather than specifically Sikh per se.

As I've written to neo, be careful to note the distinction between chittaakash and chidakash. There is an important difference. One is limited, the other unlimited. Akash is an adjective to convey the quality of chetan. Chittaa is the individuated mind-space as such (yogas-chitta-vrittinirodaha, yogsutra smadhipad 2). If this were to read 'chit' or 'chid' it would be suggesting that vrittis occur at the macro unlimited level (i.e. Braham - satchitanand), which as we know is beyond the trehkaal and thus cause and effect. The akash element is given to convey the non-difference and subtlety of that all-pervading consciousness...just as the pot and the ether metaphor.

do you mena upraamtaa? That means cessation. whats the context? Something to do with the antahkaran perhaps?

no, in this context sankalap does not mean thoughts, it means resolve and vikalap is the oposite, doubt. These are the two functions of the man element of the mind (i.e. chit, budhi, man and hankar). Only budhi affirms things with conviction (nischey). This is why the mind is described in Gurbani as being that which is wavering (budhi is not involved in wavering, only affirms its end result).

'brahmaa' and his 'death' is not to be taken quite so literally, remember that brahmaa, bishan and mahesh are the consequence of the ishvar form of parmatma. When they are all soaked back into parmatma (mahaparlay) they don't cease to exist in principle, merely the manifestation has ceased to exist...the traditional way to think of this is of a spider and its web, which is different yet non-different from the spider, which is then eaten up again by the spider (do they do that I don;t know)!

Apart from those two tapes he has out on t-series, is there anything of his newer tanpura only stuff available? I love his style.

Changes, your talking maryada, Im talking mindset. Not so much differences in what they do, but in how they think. Generally its fixed around the nirmala tradition of vedantic learning, deeper exploration of the terms, etc. But each great Nirmala historically has worked with what they've studied and emphasised certain aspects e.g. Pandit Ishar Singh Kashiwale uses more Advaiata language, Pandit Tara Singh Narottam emphasises the bhakti element through the many conceptual delineations of vaishnav schools (i.e. the 12 ras, the different bhaavs, etc)...so it changes that way. Plus over the last 100 years some maryada changes have occured in nominal things like peaches being saved for a rainy day, less traditional arti, etc. Also the main thing is that each parampra at some point has developed its own kind of angle, in the sense that some are more overtly shastardhaari than others, the Santpura Nirmalay for example back when they were in Gujranwala (I think) pre-partition celebrated their 'amritdhari jathas' with group photos, etc. There was even once a smaller parmpra of women nirmalay in one akhara, so its a two-way thing also.

His dargah at the bottom of the steps of Jami Masjid is so small, humble and beautiful...Sriiii Hazrat Sarmad Shaheed Maharaaaaaj Kiiiiii Jaaaaaiiiiii hoooooo!!! a short article on him http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=...eafyglade%20inn

I was thinking how similar upside down battas look to a gamelan set up! NOt quite the same sound I guess. I like that other old photo of the WW2 soldiers in a french village (maybe can't remember) doing kirtan and one of them tapping a glass with a spoon. Some old Sants like Bhai Adhan Shah (I think) used to go around with a tumbi.

There is reported to be a very explicit statement of him 'lying naked in a bed' with his hindu lover while in the sindh before their move to delhi in one collection of anecdotes from his life. I can't remember is he was married. I'm pretty certain the prophet didn't do quite a few of the things Sufis have done in the past, I don't think that diminishes from their state. If I'm not mistaken the 'you should follow the prophet's example' was the argument on which Aurangzeb and his Qazi got Sarmad cut to pieces at Jami Masjid in new delhi wasn't it?

Knowing which seva is for you is about knowing what it is that drives you. The traditions are there, and they are valid. I think Ustad ji is the person to talk to about why such traditions are important to maintain. I agree with you that the context has changed, the idea of 'defending the faith' nowadays has become something far more complex, particularly since the vast majority of the 'attacks' over the last 60 years have been ideological in implication (punjabi language, bias against sikhs per se, the actions of congress being understood by some to be to destroy sikhi, etc). I mean does a man dressing up as Guru Gobind Singh Ji (who also happens to dress up like Captain black and a klingon on other occasions) constitute a threat to Sikhi? No i don't think so. But he has been very disrespectful and I can sympathise why people demanded action against him. This means that the response of Nihangs depends on their views about the implied bias or veiled threat. Most samprdas I've seen we're way back and still are congressi. They don't believe that congress are out to destory sikhi (some I've spoken to see the 80s as dirty politics, partly a legacy of the Akalis diminished understanding of Sikhi, mixing in religious sentiments, and then one gigantic and incredibly demented act on the part of the ailing Indira Gandhi. The nihangs were active at the village level need for justice. Nirmalay, Udasis and Sevapanthis only saw themselves getting bumped off by kharkoo when they appealed for a bit of vivekbudhi.) So then for some it becomes an issue of authenticity. Do I wish to accept my own ideas on what Sikhi is? Do I feel confident with that? Or do you turn to models of Sikhi, some clearly more distorted over time than others. I think thats the bit where people look back to as early as possible...and that requires a bit of research too. For some UK Nihangs this is about the correct ideological, philsophical and practical model of Sikhi in its larger context. While the practical side of it seems to be still there, I presume (and as I say I'm not the person to ask) the ideological and philosophical/metaphysical elements have faded away over the last 100 years. The Nihang jathedar, well clearly the Sant recognised that his understanding of Sikhi was different. Of course there is Jathedar Nihal Singh Ji who is effectively a Sant, some of his practices I've heard of are Sant like, and like Raja Janak he is grihasth. Not surprisingly his dal all hold a similar understanding of Sikhi and have moved away from the tamoguni elements. Vice versa there were Nirmalay who were initially faujis but started questionning what it was all about. But I'm sure you'll feel it when you're over there!

For a second I saw that nihang at the front playing the 'pan drums' with a couple of spoons.