ishvar2

I was going to PM you Veer jattboot but thought I'd share the knowledge for anyone else interested: Here is a link to the website that I got these books from: http://www.saujanyabooks.com/ Just do a search for 'Shackle'. Please be aware that they didn't have an online payment facility when I used them a while ago, although they may do now -I should really sell some IT work to them!. This meant one they had contacted me, I had to send my card details via email. I highly recommend that you split your details across two or three emails and let them know before hand. Everything worked out fine and there was no card fraud!

Stunning photography

I think this is why it is a must for leadership as well as any human to be honest to understand politics. I maybe wrong, but is it one of Guru's Ji hukum to 'study politics'? I guess this so we know the how the dirty game works (with sometimes the equally slippery media game) and so effectively engage in it with the highest values? Anyone?

Try this http://www.gurbanifiles.org/translations/index.htm Little techie tip for links that don't work directly - go back to home page! So for the above link 'http://www.gurbanifiles.org/trans.html', which does not work, delete the 'trans.html' which obviously takes one to the home page 'http://www.gurbanifiles.org'. From here the translations are the top of the page I think is the intended link.

You rest your case? For someone who loves the law I find your cases laughable! I don't mean this personally at you but at your arguments. Let me make this clear for you: Your judgement on Sikhs = Khalistani terrorists + hearsay about Niddhar Singh Nihang + Shere Punjab + Lack of law (Please sue me) + Boar tooth + Heathen ways + whatever else negative you can think of Using your logic, which is suitably faulty, Sikhs should judge Muslims = Global terrorism + Osama Bin Laden + Executing homosexuals + Ultra strict laws + Forced conversions + Cause of a number of wars + whatever else they can think of But no you'll say 'I am not x muslim, I'm y muslim'. But if we use the same argument it's not valid. Just concede you've got it wrong and you've let your anger over-ride any reasoned approach to your arguments. Seriously, it can happen to any of us.

What is the price of defiance, Singho Ji? What does Shariah say about those who do defy it's authority? How are they to be treated? While I have no doubt there is at least some truth in your rants, I feel more sure you hate Sikhs. I hope this is not the case because the same reasons why one would hate a 'Muslim' are the same reasons one would hate a 'Sikh' - arrogance, petulance, hypocrisy, anger, ignorance etc. When you and other posters generalise by the faith group we are no better than each other. I like to treat people as individuals as far as possible. I personally think where as the Gurus (regardless of whether you respect them or not) and the Prophets and Sages of various faiths were living examples of God's virtues we all show how petulant we are as inheriters of their tradition. Shame on us all. God is great, we are not. Vaheguru di kirpa de naal we'll address the lacuna if needs be.

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Singho - With all due respect I think you missed the point of Shaheediyan's post. He's not advocating self exile he's just raising a very important point which incidentally affects both Muslims of all persuasions (and Sikhs to a lesser extent in a different way due to the lack of laws and jurisprudence) which is that conflict in secular law and religious expression. I don't know if you know but there are Muslims who want Sharia law in the UK for Muslims only. From what I know, there is an wide opposition to it from non-Muslims rightly or wrongly. I think this is the spirit in which Shaheediyan asked this questions - if it came down to living in a country that has the majority of laws you want to live under and one that does n't (though you could politically and legitimately fight for them) and given that the laws are an inherant part of your belief then surely one would live in the former and not the latter. I personally feel it is the right of people to have a framework to challenge existing laws of the country they find themselves in etc. I have no idea how this works in Sharia in its various schools. In reality, of course people live where they are born and one hopes that when they are mature enough they'll have to make this choice themselves. I don't think anyone wants a fascist state anywhere in the world. The jibe against the turbanned stooges is unwarrented and doesn't further the discussion not that it was going anywhere. My take: Sikhi doesn't not have any laws or jurisprudence. Perhaps in your view we are missing something. I pray that we can respect this difference as in the end only God knows.