11 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Yes it's dividing the Paanth. 

Panth is in chardikala and ever flourishing.  Focus on your individual self first.  Panth is taken care of Guru Nanak Sahib Himself. 

Abichal Neev Dhari Guru Nanak Nit Nit Chadae Savai ....The foundation has been laid down by Guru Nanak Sahib and it is ever flourishing. 

You created this thread into 'they vs us', and I responded accordingly. 

You can do whatever you like personally, but don't feel threatened if you come across people who differ from your ideas. 

4 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Or you want it to look pristine for your pride so people can think like you based on your faith

Exactly, I want it to look nice and clean, so people are not lost in your essays of agitated thoughts. 

3 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

So if you aren't a dr, which clearly you aren't, what kind of fake helper are you that works with mentally ill people and feels qualified to misdiagnose people over the web?

You have google. Look up manic and bipolar already. 

Look up projecting too. Lol. 

Look up bibek buddhi. 

13 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

It's faith based.

That's how I work. 

2 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

You know what they call that right?

You can call me whatever you want. I don't need a certification of approval from you . 

2 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Is your lack of integrity and uselessness always this obvious?

Good. Keep Projecting. 

12 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

So, it's based purely on Sant Ji said that the origin of Sukha Maryada is this? That's the entire reference?

yes. its enough for me. 

@paapiman this will be good for you to find out more about. Pujari from Vrindavan and Sukhnidhan Maryada at Hazur Sahib. 

6 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

don't know the definition of manic?

From your writing style and content, I can sense agitation, jumpiness, flight of ideas, tangential thoughts, and racing thoughts. One of the criteria for Bipolar Disorder.   Scientific and Clinical Research indicates correlation between cannabis use and manic episodes. 

Here is a link, you are welcome to explore more on your own 

Cannabis use and mania symptoms: a systematic review and meta-analysis

Conclusions: Our findings whilst tentative, suggest that cannabis use may worsen the occurrence of manic symptoms in those diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and may also act as a causal risk factor in the incidence of manic symptoms. This underscores the importance of discouraging cannabis use among youth and those with bipolar disorder to help prevent chronic psychiatric morbidity. More high quality prospective studies are required to fully elucidate how cannabis use may contribute to the development of mania over time.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25285897/

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

@Ragmaala

I appreciate your contribution bhai ji. 

I have to say, the thing that threw me, in terms of the whole narrative of certain substances, was coming across the reference in Kavi Sainapati's Sri Gursobha where Singhs about to embark on a long journey southward, are described as having afeem in their possession.  And it seems REALLY hard to believe that Rattan Singh Bhangu was way off with his descriptions of his grandfather, Sukha SIngh, and Baba Gurbaksh Singh Shaheeds in Panth Prakash too. 

@dalsingh101 veer ji, I understand where you are coming from. It's good to have different perspectives, and opinions on a plate, and then one can use their bibek buddhi to decide what's good for them, and what works for the individual. 

But some people are so identified with the topic of Sukha, that if you say anything against it, they feel its a threat to their identity, jump into survival mode, and lose all rationality. 

40 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

You need to look up manic bro. 

I don't need to look it up, I have personally experienced and been involved in treatment of patients with various psychiatric problems. And I am well versed with the side effects of psychiatric medications, not a fan of it. Mental illness is unfortunate. 

25 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

then you're dismissed. That's getting off light considering the mountain of points you didn't answer at all. 

You are no one to dismiss me, and I choose what I need to respond to and what not to.

23 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

validate what you said about Sukha Maryada in Hazur Sahib

As I clearly mentioned, these are not my words, but I have quoted the words of Amir Bhandar Tika from Bhai Mani Singh Ji Taksal. I have provided the page number. 

1 minute ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Mmm and educated, and experienced. Not only with it but people like you. 

Don't respect it. 

Good for you man , carry on.

Peace out

It’s obvious you are very involved and passionate about this topic, and understandably so.

@GurjantGnostic I don’t have to prove myself or back myself up or defend myself, I have quoted the words of scholars and mahapurush. Its not for you but for the sangat who will come here, they can read and decide themselves what they choose to do.

I don’t have to reply or respond to your every sentence. Your writing style clearly indicates hyper response and manic state of mind. Take it easy on sukha.

You can call me names and insult me. Please go ahead. Thanks.

Forget about what I think or what I say. I have no authority or say. I don't have to prove anything to anyone, for I am nothing. Let's go back to basics. I will just place the views of taksal from Bhai Mani Singh Ji, Amir Bhandar Tika. Sangat can read it, and make their own decision. So if someone comes on this forum, they have the resource available to decide for themselves. And if someone can be kind enough to translate into English for non-gurmukhi readers or speakers.

Reference: Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Bhagat Kabir Ji, Ang 1377, Amir Bhandar Tika Page 327

These are not my views, but the view of Great Scholar and Brahmgyani Sant Amir Singh Ji and Giani Kirpal Singh Ji, from the Bhai Mani Singh Ji Samparda. I will translate few points in quotes, correct the translation if its wrong.

"In the Gurbani above, Bhang is Sukha, meat of fish, chicken, dried tobacco leaves used by Maharashtrians, and also refers to Maya that creates obstacles in Bhagti... those who use these, all their sadhanas are worthless...

After the war of Emnabaad , Babar presented/offered 7 fists of  Bhang to Guru Nanak Dev ji. Guru Nanak Dev Ji replied we dont need this bhang, we are already drinking the internal bhang, the love of Parmatma, the Naam Khumari.    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 721 ..

ਤਿਲੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੨    ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਭਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਭਾਂਗ ਖਲੜੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ ਮੈ ਦੇਵਾਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਅਤੀਤੁ ॥ ਕਰ ਕਾਸਾ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਭੂਖ ॥ ਮੈ ਦਰਿ ਮਾਗਉ ਨੀਤਾ ਨੀਤ ॥੧॥ ਤਉ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਕਰਉ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਮੈ ਦਰਿ ਮਾਗਤੁ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਪਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕੇਸਰਿ ਕੁਸਮ ਮਿਰਗਮੈ ਹਰਣਾ ਸਰਬ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਣਾ ॥ ਚੰਦਨ ਭਗਤਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਇਨੇਹੀ ਸਰਬੇ ਪਰਮਲੁ ਕਰਣਾ ॥੨॥ ਘਿਅ ਪਟ ਭਾਂਡਾ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਐਸਾ ਭਗਤੁ ਵਰਨ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਨਿਵੇ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਦਰਿ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਪਾਇ ॥੩॥੧॥੨॥

Some Manmukhs to hide their own shortcomings , use the following pankti  

to say that Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji have asked bowl of bhang from Parmatma. Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji have not taken anything with partakh nasha. In Hikayatan, Guru Gobind Singh ji have talked about 'Sabaz Rang Prem'...

Some people say that Guru Sahib used Bhang and Afeem. This is impossible and against Gurmat. Guru ji instructed Khalsa regarding alcohol and bhang:

Regarding Hazur Sahib Sukhnidhan Maryada, it was started by a pujari who came from Vrindavan, he would drink bhang himself and started doing bhog of Sukhnidhan, and that's how the maryada got established. 

Regarding Afeem, Giani Gian Singh used to take afim, and he wrote that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj used to take afim. "

After reading the above, Sangat can make their own decision and choose for themselves. Its very clear. The above are views of great taksal of Bhai Mani Singh Ji Shaheed. These are not mine. Now Gurjantgnostic will say that Bhai Mani Singh Ji were also brain-washed by gore, imperial, white etc etc. what a joke

Summary:

• Our Current Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji/ Bhagat Kabir Ji talks against Bhang, although Bhang can also mean other things as mentioned above. 
• Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji refused bhang when offered by Babar In Emnabad
• Guru Gobind Singh Ji instructed his Khalsa 
  • you can translate it as you wish
• Sukhnidhan Maryada at Hazur Sahib was started by a Pujari who came from Vrindavan, and was fond of drinking bhang himself, and started doing bhog of it. And it got normalized afterwards.
• Giani Gian Singh was a opium userm and he portrayed Guru Sahib as such.

@dalsingh101 if I made any mistakes in translating the original text, please feel free to correct it. 

Anyways, 

‘waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh’ on this topic from me. I believe i have put forwards my points, and my reasoning. 

33 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

full on see where you're coming from with the above, but let me add another dimension. I know of a few people who have multiple sclerosis, and they use it. There condition is serious, and it not only helps alleviates the symptoms, but they say it also helps them to mentally deal with being stuck in a wheelchair.  I know people who have psychotic violent tendencies who use it to make themselves less violent. I know people with nerve damage who use it to alleviate symptoms of that. I know people who struggle to eat, who use it to ramp up their hunger, and who looked like concentration camp survivors beforehand. 

That’s fair , when used as a medicine. Thc oil is used to help with concussion symptoms
 

My only issue is taking sukha, just for fun, without any medical indications. I am not talking about Sukhnidhan which has no nasha and is actually a nutritious drink.

but anything for the purpose of making you high, without an absolute necessity,imo is not Gurmat.

6 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I think a healthier question to ask yourself is where did my aversion to Sukha come from?

My Experiences as a kid , seeing people abusing it, villagers, fake nihangs doing beadbi of bana, people abusing it on shivratri melas, eating bhang pkaode, developing diarrhea and headaches etc. 
 

Understanding of Gurmat being against any Nasha, ranging from sukha, alcohol, afem, certain diets, wealth and power.

reading jivans of great mahapurush from various sampardas such as Nanaksar, Taksal, Rara Sahib, Bidhi Chand, etc and them not promoting any use of Sukha.

And the jivan of most recent Shaheed Sant Jarnail Singh Ji , how he lived his life and his views on these topics.

All the above form my ideas, and  understanding.

The whites or imperial culture has no effect on me. I dont know what’s reefer madness. 
 

I am  not fan of modern pharmaceuticals  or anti depressants. They are temporary fix only. And I am aware of all their side effects and their vicious cycle.

22 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

BTW are you trying to say that when a thing is used in one way, it becomes a 'nasha' but the same thing used in another way, isn't nasha? 

Yes. 
Anything that makes your mind unstable, creates vikaar, and develops your dependency upon it is a form of Nasha. 
In essence, my point is we have to exercise greater caution with things that have a higher potential of abuse, some greater than others. They might have been used as medicine in past, but if they are available in abundance and unregulated, people can use past examples to normalize their use and knowing the human mind , start abusing it.

6 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

You know Sukha use prevents drug addictions and can be used to treat drug addiction? That it has basically no counter indications, that it's linked to treating countless illness? That some people's bodies don't make the proper endocannabinoids? That it comes in many non psychoactive forms and the pyschoactive forms are fine? That none of the man made isolations result in the same quality medicine?

If you use Sukha as a medicine, in controlled form, to help someone get rid of their afeem, alcohol or some other addiction, that’s fair. Just don’t develop dependency on Sukha afterwards. Dependency on external means is not Gurmat imo.

Methadone is used to help with heroin addiction and eventually come off it. Benzodiazepines are used to help with delirium tremens when people suddenly come off alcohol. But if someone develops dependency on methadone and bzds, thats defeating the original purpose.

Our brain has cannaboid receptors. If you use external cannabis, you will develop tolerance and ultimate fry them out. The way to activate many unknown pleasure receptors in our brain is through Naam Rassa via Japa techniques. The effect will be everlasting without any side effects. 

19 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Have you done Sangat of Hajuriye Singhs?

They probably use Sukhnidhaan, as a supplement. Bhog of Sukhnidhaan is done at Sri Hajur saab.

Gyani Inderjit Singh jee Raqbewale probably grew up in that area. He mentioned something about it in his katha. If you drink Sukha (as prepared at Sri Hajur saab), there is probably no Nasha in it. They probably put very little Sukha in it.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I have witnessed the maryada at Hazur Sahib. They give sukhnidhan prashad near the bunga downstairs.  

 When we were near the godavri, we came across a hazuri singh. He definitely seemed high, red eyes etc. Not sure if it was nasha of sukha or naam khumari.

Shardai when prepared properly is very nutritious and soothing for brain, and as I said no more than 5 leaves for maryada. But when there is no almonds, pepper, poppy seeds, rose, etc and just pure sukha. Thats Nasha . Like they have bhang on shivratri melas and people going high and crazy.

Just now, paapiman said:

Source?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Anand Chamatkar. Read it a long time ago, don’t remember the exact page number. 

5 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

What is this recreational abuse you all keep talking about?

I have seen People in Nihang Bana , getting high, swearing and abusing, lying around all day, doing beadbi of bana etc

As a kid I have seen weed growing around in pind, villagers getting high on it , staying in poor conditions, not doing anything with their lives etc

I have not seen anyone using sukha as a medicine so far, only a means of getting high and getting Nasha.

And Gurmat is very straightforward on Nasha. It could be a Nasha of sukha, afeem, modern pharmaceutical, food, wealth or power. 

All Nasha is Anti Gurmat.

@GurjantGnostic i know you have done mushrooms in past, do you also smoke marijuana? I see you are very defensive and feel hurt.

you have posted a lot, kind of reminds me of a manic episode.
 

I will reply when I get time , waste my energy in putting my points across lol