Pheena

"Guruji, I would like to hear some stories of your childhood." "I will tell you a few—each one with a moral!" Sri Yukteswar's eyes twinkled with his warning. "My mother once tried to frighten me with an appalling story of a ghost in a dark chamber. I went there immediately, and expressed my disappointment at having missed the ghost. Mother never told me another horror-tale. Moral: Look fear in the face and it will cease to trouble you. "Another early memory is my wish for an ugly dog belonging to a neighbor. I kept my household in turmoil for weeks to get that dog. My ears were deaf to offers of pets with more prepossessing appearance. Moral: Attachment is blinding; it lends an imaginary halo of attractiveness to the object of desire. "A third story concerns the plasticity of the youthful mind. I heard my mother remark occasionally: 'A man who accepts a job under anyone is a slave.' That impression became so indelibly fixed that even after my marriage I refused all positions. I met expenses by investing my family endowment in land. Moral: Good and positive suggestions should instruct the sensitive ears of children. Their early ideas long remain sharply etched."

The number of wives is a matter of belief : it's not a fact!!! Anyone who says that Guru Gobind Singh did have more than one wife is a pernitious liar as this is an established fact!!! All words, i can type in bigger and bolder letter, that does not make it a fact. if it is a fact, then why this dicussion of doubt. If it is a fact then it can be easily proven as you believe in it without doubt. so prove the fact ji. Furthermore, please explain the meaning of a Wife?? Why marry more than once??

good questions Admin. Also note that there are those who take Amrit and are still not pure in their hearts and there are those who are pure in their hearts and have not taken Amrit. JUST taking amrit can classify you as a Sikh, but you don't BECOME a sikh until you have COMPLETLY surrendered yourself to the Guru. For some it happens right when they ahve taken Amrit, for some it happens after the Amrit have been taken, and for some it never happens. You cannot generalize that all who ahve taken Amrit are Sikhs yea they have a title of a Sikh, but are they Sikhs in their hearts??

found it about 20 mins into the Shabad, its just blows up.... turn up the volume to get a greater effect.. Enjoy. http://www.evilcreations.net/pheena/Wahegu...10Jan2004_1.mp3 Waheguru.

i have a kirtan of that shabad....Its like all of a sudden BAM that Shabad just takes over, very powerfull Shabad. lemme find it

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the above pic: "The weather in Khalsa Raj will remain constant Spring weather" If one is to take this revelations literally, he or she has seriously fallen victom to the Prophetic illusions of a Dream. The whole Revelation is filled with Will Be , Will Be this and will be that. The future is always brighter, because of the unknown and the unknown has the potential to be whatever you'd like it to be. Your Present is the cause of your Future. But living inthe Future you miss the present. That same present that is the cause of the outcome of your future. All that exists is the Present. Tomorrow is always Tomorrow, only Today is today. Tomorrow never comes, only Today exists. Right now, here at this very instant, this very micro-cosmic glimpse of the Present, is the Infinite's door. Grab this Present and the door to existance will open. Where exactly is it written that the Guru ji will show the Panj Piyaray, and for that matter which Panj Piyaray?? If it is true there is a big chance that This will be used in some Pseudo Saints Propaganda in the making where he'll be prophosizing that he has seen where the treasure lies. Trust me there is enough of the population out there taht will believe this Pseudo Saint. So Reform yourself and the Khalsa Raj will come on its own. I am not saying anyone is wrong, how can i for i myself don't know what is going to happen tomorrow and i can't make a judgment on someone else. Nor am i saying that 960Million Khalsa will not rule. But these kind of stories of the future take you away from the Present. So im just trying to put a different prospctive on the future to be. Just my view.

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=3760 read this view of Jesus.

I agree with you that devotion has to come from the inside and yes if someone does read the Rehat and it says taht to place such and such rumallas on the SGGS, and that person performs that activity and says ok i've done my devotion. Well that is obviously not devotion, it is simply following directions. It should've sparked somethign within you but it came out as a duty. There is also the Sikh Rehat which is the guidelines to how a Sikh is suppose to live. As the Devotion has to come from with in then as can the Rehat of a Sikh, no? So is there a need for maryada then?? I feel that some type of maryada is necessary as it bring a sense of Unity to the Panth. Instead of everyone doing their own things there has to be some set of Guidelines. no bro, i never said its ok to worshipping. i m saying to show love and devotion and the rehat presents 'a' way to express that love. As you said that love has to arise from within but in Sikhi, great emphasis is placed on Rehat Maryada. Sometimes i myself have a difficult time trying to understand the purpose of the Rehat. If that Rehat can be ntohing but Mind-less rituals, then is any Rehat Safe, especially the Rehat of a Sikh? Surrender your ego to the guru, surrender your will to the Guru and let his will be your, let his Hukam be your will. Respect is also a part of bowing down, but i can Respect something and still not follow it whole-heartdly. I can Respect the Guru for who he is, but i still have my own will. Respect is simply an show of appreciation, gratitude. Respect can be a step, but the next step is to surrender. Bowing down you become Humble, because the EGO is destroyed slowly by bowing down mindfully. The EGO doesn't want to bow down to anyone. Bow down and bring down the ego as well. The 10th Guru asked for the Head of Sikhs, not the Respect of Sikhs. Asking for the head is symbolizing Surrender. Bowing is only bowing when the bowing takes over, it simply happens on its own. If 'You' are the doer, it is still not being done completly. May I ask what is wrong with submitting to Allah? If you were to search for the word Bowing in the SGGS, you'd find that it is being repeated, the bowing is being repeated again and again. It cannot be just to show respect, in my thinking it has to be something much more deeper within you, your love, your humility, your surrender. I agree, he did because people were searching outside, not within , their faith was in a building, not in allah that's resided in their own heart. I completly agree with you, and yes that one amongst million has performed the haj correctly, because he went with complete surrender in his heart, not to get a title attached to his name rather to get god attached in his heart. I am reminded of this story i heard, i'll try my best to put it into words. In hinduism devotees go on a Pilgrimage where they take water from the Ganaga towards a Mandir (can't remmeber what the name of the Mandir is) quite far away and they travel on foot. On the way this devotee was walking along in a pack of people and his eye fell on a dog who was dying of thirst. The dog was lying on his side near death and the devotee ran up to the animal and started to give it water. As the other devotees watched him they asked him in surprise as to what is he doing, that water is to be taken to the mandir. Ignoring them he continued to give him water and as the story goes, right then and there the Avtaar of the Mandir to which the devotees were going appear in place of the dog and liberated him for he saw the importance of life not a pilgrimage. He saw more God in that dog than there is in a building or a statue. Simiilar story in buddhism is also there in which the plant is watered. Here is a list of all the Gurus/Bhagats whose bani is in the SGGS, it is in the order of Raags, but you can see their names. I hope that is what you are asking for, if not please let me know. http://www.sikhitothemax.com/ggsindex.asp You are correct, that was a very poor choice of words on my part. My apologies. I whole heartdly agree with you. Is the Rehat worth following when the devotion has to arise from within you towards the Guru and If the real devotion is within you and when you follow a set of rule, does it diminish the possibility of a spark within you of your personal devotion arising within you? As i stated in the previous post, The Rehat is 'A' way, not the only way, your Love, your True Love will bring about its own rehat towards your guru, your own leela between you and your guru. Yes there should be Love towards Soceity, but should we just ignore the SGGS and not decorate it, not place beautifull flowers or rumallas on it?? Our Gurus wore Beautifull Clothes, why not the rumallas then for our Guru?? After all Sikhs say it is a Living Guru, if you think otherwise then please say so. Is that considered Idol Worshipping because the SGGS is being placed on a King-Size bed or decorated with Rumallas. Well then what difference is the gold on Harmandir sahib, it is decorated with gold. The SOLE reason the Beauty of harmandir Sahib is there IS because of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Millions upon Millions of sikhs come there not for the Gold, but for the Guru Granth Sahib. These things towards the Guru are necessary, as for how far you want to take it before it becomes a Ritual can be argued about. But if we to think that it is the Living Guru then lets treat it as such. When the 10 Gurus were in the physical presence, people used to bring gift to the guru in clothes or other ways. What ever the love an individual had for the guru and the economical postition he was in. The guru accepted whatever gift was given, not because of the Gift itself, but because of the LOVE that the indiviudal brought it with. One could bring a diamond to the guru and another could bring a pair of shoes for the Guru, Whoever brought love along with the gift or whomever did seva with Love was the one who caught the Gurus eye. revert back to hinduism? did we come from hinduism to revert back to being hindu?

hmm didn't think of it taht way....i guess i just assumed that the kirtan was done in an organized or atleast semi-organized way.

If you cannot taste Sugar, it is not the sugar to blame rather something is wrong with your tounge. Next time go without any thought of judment or expectation. Just go empty minded, sit and just listen, don't think, just listen. Become the Ears that listen to kirtan.

oh, thanks for the clarification ji.

When your Love starts to grow between your partner, Sex will begin to disappear.

que? can u clarify what you maen by Guru Granth manisfes in three forms??? are you talking about Brahma, Vishnu, Mahaysh.

hmmm the 'OORa' with the open top gives off the sound of Ooo, as for it making the OaN or OM or OaN(G), i guess it could be left up to the interpetor, the sound is basicaly the same. But i guess you can create two different sounds Om-kar, Oan-kar. Tis all the same to me just different vairations. of OM. ie: 'Ameen', 'Amen' is from teh same sound as OM, so is Om-nipotent, Om-nipresent. just varied. So you can see how this sound of OM is present in all Major Religions just a bit varied.

First please define what a Mindless Ritual is and how is it related to the task that is done with love and devotion such as cooking food?? It shows in your posts, You see there is no right or wrong in this, you don't want to cook food for the Guru then that is fine, don't do it. Is Guru/God going to punish you if you don't, no. It is your devotion to the guru and everyoen expresses in their own way. Some buy Beautifull Rumallas for the Guru, some don't. Some Place Beautifully sowen covers for the Guru, some don't, Some Buy a Kingsize bed, some don't. Guru is looking for Love not gold, not king size beds, not food, his food is Love. It is your Devotion. Everyones expression of their love and devotion is their own and the Rehat gives us 'A' way in my opinion. Well it is the Last and eternal Guru of the Sikhs because the 10th guru proclaimed it as so. If he hadn't how would u know who the next guru was?? Some would've considered the Dasam Granth as the Guru, some not and I agree that the reason it was proclaimed the last guru was because the message it contains is so enriched with LOVE of god from the devotees themselves. Perhaps I do have you all wrong. It is not what you didn't say, but it is how your approach towards the Rehat is understood by me. And definetly not am i Dismissing your Logic or Logic itself. But Logic can only take you so far. Love is the next step after Logic. Logic cannot explain what love is or justify the actions of the one who is in Love. You can be Logical all your life, is that a Logical thing to do? And as it is said, 'Without love you cannot attain God'. Not "Without Logic god cannot be be attined", but Love is the key. Logic is mind, it is intellect, Love is the Heart, you don’t need logic to love. They are independent of each other, they serve their own purpose. In Love everything is divine and undestood; even the un-understandable is justified thru love. People do things in love which cannot be explained thru Logic ie: cook food for a ‘book’. Once you are in Love, the ‘book’ no longer becomes a book rather it become alive and you become alive. Logically we can discuss this and end up not beliving that the Rehat is correct. because thru logic you are absolutly correct, but again and again you miss to see the love behind the illogical things being done towards the guru. But where Love is there is no debate, nothing verbally can be expressed in love, only silence can speak for love Nor does the question of 'why' arises in Love. Why is that so, because Love diminishes any possibility of doubt. It makes no difference to someone who is in love, that is the UnConditional Love. That love is not 'blind love' as it could be mistaken for, but it is the Love that removes all doubts. That Love also brings spritiual Wisdom along with it. Because Guru ji was a Reformer, he wanted to reform things that were done without meaning or reason, they were unrationalized rituals. They held a meaning when they were created, but the meaning was lost and simply the duty of the ritual was left. Or some were even created out of Superstitions. Even Bowing before the guru can become a Mindless event, as the real purpose is to surrender all that is to the Guru, you surrender your head, your ego to the guru, but you are bowing down and your mind is in a movie, or a girl, or a guy or whether your car is ok, then it has become mindless , because your mind was not invovled in the bowing down. Your mind did not bow, rather you body, it become a duty, meaningless ritual. A performance. Do you think if someone went to mecca with full of Love and devotion towards Allah he is wrong because he is making a Pilgrimage. Do you not go to Amritsar full of love towards the Guru? If he goes to mecca and he comes back with no ego, no more hatred in his heart ready to spread the love that he has received the how is that a bad thing? Was that Pilgrimage still a mindless thing??? People were/are taking Pilgrimages, doing ritual and coming back still full of ego, full of hatred, full of greed. That is a meaningless ritual. what makes a Pilgrimage to mecca different than a visit to Amritsar?? Rituals are not the end, they are a step. Guru Nanak wanted to avoid any ritual practices because he saw what could happen when the message is lost and it is bound to happen that the message will be lost. The Rituals have become outdated in the mind of man, it is no longer done in love, it is no longer done in devotion, but as a meaningless and mindless performance of duty. And anything that becomes a Duty is bound to become meaningless, a mindless ritual. For a Sikh those things are not necessary, as the Guru's have paved a different road to avoid all the curves of pilgrimages and the speedbumps of mindless rituals. If you love god, then the guru that you have passed thru that enabled you to love god should be loved even more and if one want to cook food for that guru because he enabled you to love god, then what is wrong with that?? If you want to place that Guru on a King size bed then what is wrong with that, It is your love and devotion, express it how you see fit. i concluded from your post only, as i stated at the end, i am only gathering this from your posts and i apologized if i concluded wrongly, but your posts speak with a different tone. Your posts are full of Logic, not Love. It is not to say you don't love, but again your post is all that i have known about you. Did i assume too much perhaps i did, but to understand the logic behind the Rehat, look with they eyes of love. If your love gives you the right to treat the guru as you see fit, then as does the love of those who wrote the Rehat. If they want to cook food for the Guru, the does it become a blind ritual or a illogical reasoning? I asked you who do you think the Guru is actually going to eat the food?? That would be illogical to think that the guru in form of words is going to eat the food or its going to magically disappear.. That food will be served to the Sangat that comes to Langar. But that Food which is being cooked for the guru is filled with Love and made whole heartdly by teh devotee and when the Sangat does eat it how do u think they are going to feel. The food of the Guru is the Food of the Sangat, hence the Analogy i gave about the Guru Nanak and his Golakh being with the poor. The degh is for the guru but then is served to the Sangat with the same Love that it was made with. You are seeing the food for the Guru Granth Sahib, but not the love that it is being prepared with which is far more important. You see the cause, but see the effect of it also. You see a King-Size bed for the Guru as a Mind-less ritual, but you are not seeing the Love that one might buy that king Size bed with. It isn't Mindless because Love is involved. Not everyone can afford a King-size bed for the Guru, does that mean they can't have the Guru in their house, well ofcourse not. It is your love, and it is expressed with how much devotion and love you have. Truthfully I don't know who i am. When i find out myself, i will let you know. Do you know who Bhagat Dhanna is. His Bani is in the Guru Granth Sahib. Do you know where he found God?? In a Rock. That Rock that he worshipped with devotion and LOVE. There is a Contradiction then, the Guru are against idol worshipping, yet there is bani of a Bhagat who found god in a rock. Using Logic that is a contradiction and will create doubt within you but using love all doubts are erased. LOVE of God and the Devotion he had in that Rock that even god had to take the form of his devotees Avtaar to satisfy him. So does that mean we should also worship rocks to find god, no Bhagat dhanna's devotion fell on a Rock, it was simply a medium he used as an excuse to express the innocent love that he had. Simply that, it is the reason of all Moortees in Temples, just an excuse to bring out your inner devotion, but something happened and it just stopped there, nothing further was done to bring it out more, people started to believe that, that was god and that was the end, no. It was just an excuse for you to express the love. Not the end, it was the beginning, next see god in the person next to you, and then see it in the entire universe. It was a path a medium but became the destination. As for the Message of the Gurus, they avoided any Idol Worshipping not because it was wrong, If it was wrong then so was all of Hinduism. If that was so, then why have Hindu Bhagats bani in the Guru Granth Sahib?? because they wanted to create a different path, that was reformed, that had less turns, less potholes on which people could fall in. As they could see the confusion and the mis-undestand people were having from Pilgrimages and Idol Worshipping. That is only my opinion. here is the story, rather one interpetation of the story, http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...ighlight=#19006 Not at all ji, i hope i haven't offended you with nething assumptions i have made regarding your love towrds god/guru. Waheguru.

Why do you go everyweek if you don't find anything, besides an environment that makes no sense to you??

Enlightenment has nothing to do with poverty, fasting, discipline, religious rituals. There is only a single way to enlightenment and that is creating more and more awareness about your acts, about your thoughts, about your emotions.

Shakespear is puzzled by the problem "to be or not to be," because he is absolutely unaware that the way to be is not to be. There is no question of choice. It is not that you have to choose one. If you choose to be, you will have to choose not to be. If you are ready to disappear, evaporate, you will find your authenticity for the first time. It is certainly a paradox. No logic can explain it, but experience can make it absolutely clear.

If you love a person, how can you destroy his or her freedom? If you trust a person, you trust her or his freedom too. One day it happened that a man came to me who was really in a mess, very miserable. And he said, 'I will commit suicide.' I said, 'Why?' He said, 'I trusted my wife and she has betrayed me. I had trusted her absolutely and she has been in love with some other man. And I never came to know about it until just now! I have got hold of a few letters. So then I inquired, and then I insisted, and now she has confessed that she has been in love all the time. I will commit suicide' he said. I said, 'You say you trusted her?' He said, 'Yes, I trusted her and she betrayed me.' What do you mean by trust?—some wrong notion about trust; trust also seems to be political. 'You trusted her so that she would not betray you. Your trust was a trick. Now you want to make her feel guilty. This is not trust.' He was very puzzled. He said, 'What do you mean by trust then, if this is not trust? I trusted her unconditionally.' I said, 'If I were in your place, trust would mean to me that I trust her freedom, and I trust her intelligence, and I trust her loving capacity. If she falls in love with somebody else, I trust that too. She is intelligent, she can choose. She is free, she can love. I trust her understanding.' What do you mean by trust? When you trust her intelligence, her understanding, her awareness, you trust it. And if she finds that she would like to move into love with somebody else, it is perfectly okay. Even if you feel pain, that is your problem; it is not her problem. And if you feel pain, that is not because of love, that is because of jealousy. What kind of trust is this, that you say it has been betrayed? My understanding of trust is that it cannot be betrayed. By its very nature, by its very definition, trust cannot be betrayed. It is impossible to betray trust. If trust can be betrayed, then it is not trust. Think over it. If I love a woman, I trust her intelligence infinitely. And, if in some moments she wants to be loving to somebody else, it is perfectly good. I have always trusted her intelligence. She must be feeling like that. She is free. She is not my other half, she is independent. And when two persons are independent individuals, only then there is love. Love can flow only between two freedoms. tvis204 I have seen couples who have lived together for thirty or forty years; still, they seem to be as immature as they were on their first day together. Still the same complaint: "She doesn't understand what I am saying." Forty years being together and you have not been able to figure out some way that your wife can understand exactly what you are saying, and you can understand exactly what she is saying. But I think there is no possibility for it to happen except through meditation, because meditation gives you the qualities of silence, awareness, a patient listening, a capacity to put yourself in the other's position. It is possible with me: I am not concerned with the trivia of your life. You are here basically to listen and understand. You are here to grow spiritually. enligh16 I was talking to a friend yesterday. There is a conflict between him and his wife. As is natural, he thought if he had married another woman there would not have been this state of affairs. Now this man has no experience of another woman. She exists only in imagination. The wife also feels the same way. She feels she has made a wrong choice. Another man would have made a better husband. In this case also, there is no experience of the other man. He is purely imaginary. Now we cannot have the experience of all the women in the world or all the men in the world, therefore, the illusion persists. I told my friend, "It is not a question of this woman or that woman. It is a question of your different natures. There is conflict in your dispositions. And it is the arrangement between a man and a woman that society has prescribed that is to be blamed for this, for it is an arrangement of ownership. Wherever we make permanent relationships, strife is bound to be, for the mind is most impermanent and relationships very permanent. way109 I was traveling for twenty years in this country. I was staying in thousands of homes, and I saw it continuously: when the husband is not in the house, the wife seems to be very cheerful, very happy. The moment the husband enters the house she has a headache, and she lies down on the bed. And I was watching, because I was just staying in the house. Just a moment before, everything was okay—as if the husband has not entered but a headache has entered. Slowly slowly, I understood the logic. There is a great investment in it. And remember, I am not saying that she is simply pretending. If you pretend too long it can become a reality, it can become an autohypnosis. I'm not saying that she is not suffering from a headache, remember. She may be suffering: just the face of the husband is enough to trigger the process! It has happened so many times that now it has become an automatic process. So I am not saying that she is deceiving the husband; she is deceived by her own investments. You have a certain image and you don't want it to be changed, and criticism means again a disturbance. dh0210 One of my friends was continually complaining to me about his wife; "She is always sad, long faced and I am so worried to enter the house…I try to waste my time in this club and that club but finally I have to go back home and there she is." I said to him, "Do one thing just as an experiment. Because she has been serious and she has been nagging, I cannot imagine that you enter the house smiling." He said, "Do you think I can manage that? The moment I see her something freezes inside me—smile?" I said, "Just as an experiment. Today you do one thing: take beautiful roses—it is the season; and the best ice-cream available in the city—tutti frutti; and go smiling, singing a song!" He said, "If you say so I will do it, but I don't think it is going to make any difference." I said, "I will come behind you, and see whether there is any difference or not." The poor fellow tried hard. Many times on the way he laughed. I said, "Why are you laughing?" He said, "I am laughing at what I am doing! I wanted you to tell me to divorce her and you have suggested I act as if I am going on a honeymoon!" I said, "Just imagine it is a honeymoon…but try your best." He opened the door and his wife was standing there. He smiled and then he laughed at himself because to smile…And that woman was standing almost like a stone. He presented the flowers and the ice-cream, and then I entered. The woman could not believe what was happening. When the man had gone to the bathroom she asked me, "What is the matter? He has never brought anything, he has never smiled, he has never taken me out, he has never made me feel that I am loved, that I am respected. What magic has happened?" I said, "Nothing; both of you have just been doing wrong. Now when he comes out of the bathroom you give him a good hug." She said, "A hug?" I said, "Give him one! You have given him so many things, now give him a good hug, kiss him…. " She said, "My God…. " I said, "He is your husband, you have decided to live together. Either live joyously or say goodbye joyously. There is no reason…it is such a small life. Why waste two person's lives unnecessarily?" At that very moment the man came from the bathroom. The woman hesitated a little but I pushed her, so she hugged the man and the man became so afraid he fell on the floor! He had never imagined that she was going to hug him. I had to help him up. I said, "What happened?" He said, "It's just that I have never imagined that this woman can hug and kiss—but she can! And when she smiled she looked so beautiful." Two persons living together in love should make it a point that their relationship is continuously growing, bringing more flowers every season, creating more joys. Just sitting together silently is enough…. sermon13 One of my friends was retiring; he was a big industrialist, and he was retiring because of my advice. I said, "You have so much and you don't have a son; you have two daughters and they are married in rich families. Now why unnecessarily bother about all kinds of worries—of business, and income tax, and this and that? You can close everything; you have enough. Even if you live one thousand years, it will do." He said, "That's true. The real problem is not the business, the real problem is I will be left alone with my wife. I can retire right now if you promise me one thing, that you will live with us. I said, "This is strange. Are you retiring or am I retiring?" He said, "That is the condition. Do you think I am interested in all these troubles? It is just to escape from my wife." The wife was a great social worker. She used to run an orphanage, a house for widows, and a hospital particularly for people who are beggars and cannot pay for their treatment. I also asked her in the evening, "Do you really enjoy all this, from the morning till the evening?" She said, "Enjoy? It is a kind of austerity, a self-imposed torture." I said, "Why should you impose this torture on yourself?" She said, "Just to avoid your friend. If we are left alone, that is the worst experience in life." And this is a love marriage, not an arranged marriage. They married each other against the whole family, the whole society, because they belonged to different religions, different astes; but their imprints gave them signals that this is the right woman, this is the right man. And all this happens unconsciously. That's why you cannot answer why you have fallen in love with a certain woman, or with a certain man. It is not a conscious decision. It has been decided by your unconscious imprint. golden06 Particularly people in India go on using women as if they are just servants. Their whole work consists of taking care of the children and the kitchen and the house, as if that's their whole life. Have you respected your wife as a human being? Then, if anger arises, it is natural. If she feels frustrated—because her life is running out and she has not known any joy, she has not known any bliss, she has not known anything that can give meaning and significance to her life…. Have you just sat by her side sometimes, silently, just holding her hand, not saying a word, just feeling her, and letting her feel you? No, that is not done in India at all. Wives and husbands have only one kind of communication: quarreling. I have been acquainted with thousands of Indian families, I have stayed with thousands of Indian families. While I was traveling all over the country I was staying with so many families that I have come to know almost all kinds of families, but very rarely have I seen husbands and wives respectful to each other. Using each other, exploiting each other, reducing each other to things, but never respecting each other's divinity—then this hell is created. secret16 One of the great Hindu saints, Tulsidas, who is worshipped and read all over India by every Hindu, has a strange statement: Dhol gamar pashu aur nari. Ye sab tadan ke adhikari. He is categorizing women with drums—dhol means drum, gamar means idiots, pashu means animals, and nari means woman. All these four are constantly to be beaten. The dhol, the drum, will not work if you don't beat it. So for thousands of years Indian women have been beaten. It has been taken for granted, there is no question. I have come across situations where a husband was beating his wife and I could not tolerate it and I entered their house, and I was amazed: more than the husband, the wife was against me, saying, "He is my husband, you cannot interfere in our affairs. If he is beating me, it is perfectly okay." So deep has the conditioning gone. hari02 In Indian villages I have seen with my own eyes…In India you cannot marry a widow. It is really the same logic because if people start marrying widows then who cares about virginity? In a strange way widows look more beautiful. Perhaps they have to look more beautiful, otherwise who is going to be interested in them? Virgins are inexperienced, look childish; widows are experienced, well polished, more attractive. But in an Indian village, if you marry a widow, the whole village—which is still a tribe—boycotts you, and the boycott is total. You cannot take water from the village well, you cannot purchase anything from any village shop; nobody will welcome you into his home. The village will simply forget about you as if you don't exist. You cannot live; it is impossible. If you cannot purchase anything and nobody speaks to you, if you cannot even get water from the well, life has become impossible. What kind of freedom…? shanti25 One man—he was one of my students in the University—told me that he would like to marry a widow. In India that is a problem. Nobody wants to marry a widow. So there are people who think that to marry a widow is a great sacrifice. I said, "You can marry, but once you have married she will not be a widow. Then what will you do? Then the whole charm will disappear because the charm is in her being a widow." He laughed—he thought I was joking. And he got married. And after six months he said, "You were right. I'm no more interested in her. My interest was basically in her widowhood. I wanted to show to the public that I am a great servant of people, that I am serving people even through my love. I am sacrificing my love for a widow. I am going against the society, I am going against the tradition. I am doing something great. But now the marriage has happened and the widow has come, now there is no point." I said,"You do one thing. You commit suicide. She will be a widow again, and somebody else will have a chance to serve her again. If you are really a public servant, do this." Since then I have not seen him. isay208 I am absolutely in favor of liberation—liberation for both man and woman—because it is a simple law: the enslaver also becomes a slave of his own slaves. Man has enslaved woman, but he has also become a slave. That's why you cannot find a husband who is not really henpecked—at least I have not found one yet. I have been searching for a husband who is not henpecked. rebel29

Once I was on a journey and someone asked me which word in a man's vocabulary was the most valuable. My reply was, "Love". The man was surprised. He said he had expected me to answer "soul" or "God". I laughed and said, "Love is God." Raising on the ray of love one can enter the enlightened kingdom of God. It is better to say that love is God than to say that truth is God, because the harmony, the beauty, the vitality and the bliss that are part of love are not part of truth. Truth is to be known; love is to be felt as well as known. The growth and perfection of love lead to the ultimate merger with God. The greatest poverty of all is the absence of love. The man who has not developed the capacity to love lives in a private hell of his own. A man who is filled with love is in heaven. You can look at man as a wonderful and unique plant, a plant that is capable of producing both nectar and poison. If a man lives by hate he reaps a harvest of poison; if he lives by love he gathers blossoms laden with nectar. If I mold my life and live it with the well-being of all men in mind, that is love. Love results from the awareness that you are not separate, not different from anything else in existence. I am in you; you are in me. This love is religious. The doors of love only open for the person who is prepared to let his ego go. To surrender one's ego for someone else is love; to surrender one's ego for all is divine love. Love is not sexual passion. Those who mistake sex for love remain empty of love. Sex is only a passing manifestation of love. It is part of nature's mechanism, a method of procreation. Love exists on a higher plane, and as love grows, sex dissipates. The energy that has been manifested in sex is transformed into love. Love is the creative refinement of sex energy. And so, when love reaches perfection, the absence of sex automatically follows. A life of love, an abstinence from physical pleasures is called brahmacharya, and anyone who wishes to be free from sex must develop his capacity to love. Freedom from sex cannot be achieved through supression. Liberation from sex is only possible through love. I have said that love is God. This is the ultimate truth. But let me say as well that love also exists within the family unit. This is the first step on the journey to love, and the ultimate can never happen if the beginning has been absent. Love is responsible for the existence of the family and when the family unit moves apart and its members spread out into society, love increases and grows. When a man's family has finally grown to incorporate all of mankind, his love becomes one with God. Without love man is an individual, an ego. He has no family; he has no link with other people. This is gradual death. Life, on the other hand, is interrelation. Love surpasses the duality of the ego. This alone is truth. The man who thirsts for truth must first develop his capacity to love—to the point where the difference between the lover and the beloved disappears and only love remains. When the light of love is freed from the duality of lover and the beloved, when it is freed from the haze of seer and seen, when only the light of pure love shines brightly, that is freedom and liberation. I urge all men to strive for that supreme freedom. long06

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/17...eats/index.html i thought the above statement by one of the supporters of teh group was so true.

well that is exactly my view, i cannot pin-point the reason or define it because simply i don't have the mental understanding to know why (if) guru ji did marry more than once. And If it is true, there is a valid reason for it that has to be no other than compassion or just circumstance. It is his Leela, his play and whatsoever he desires to do so be it. If someone belive just because guru ji married more than once and then make it ok for Sikhs to marry more than once, that is picking and choosing the things you wanted to follow. Well if that is the case, guru ji was also a great Brahmgiani, he was in love with god, he was a great poet, he was a great warrior, but no one will try to acheive those thing thru his teaching, but rather they get ahold of those thing which they can do to feed their own desires. The desire to marry more than one woman.....where desire has entered, the mind has entered and that can never be of pure reasons. In my View Guru ji never desierd to marry more than once, if it is true, then it was out of circumstance n compassion. No one knows what guru ji is like or how they thought, except guru ji himself, the reasons revealed to guru ji were only undestood by guru ji himself. One can speculate, create theories, but they will all be personal understanding of why was it so. Where Love is then every question is answered, until you haven't brought love into the equation, you will be filled with doubt and speculations.

Ok first of all the Idea of having more than one wife is either Sexual or simply out of Compassion or just circumstances. So first find a reason to have moer than one wife, find the reason behind it and then you will be able to find the answer. Because you will find evidence that will support it and some that don't. leavin you torn apart on what to belive and what not too. You must search for the reasons and if you belive that the Gurus were Devine, holy and fully enlightened individuals who had removed themselves of all of the 5 theives and were no different than God himself in a sargun forum then your answer will be much easier to find. hope that helps sort things out.

my brother had a dream once, where me and him were sittin gin a car and all of a sudden a tornado comes and picks up the car and we are twirlling inside of taht tornado. So he tells me to start doing simran, so we both start doing simran and slowly slowly the car lands down safely. The dreams are very similar, your unconcious is getting a subliminal message that Simran can save you, it has great strength. You should ask your self why did u start doing simran, why not just run away as it is the most illogical thing to do. Change is occuring within your unconcious that it is finally seeing the power of Simran. Did you felt a sense of security n safety when you did Simran?? atleast that is my understanding of it. So don't think too much of it, but take it as a sign for you progression in Simran, i would start to do more simran. waheguru