BhagatSingh

Yes if you had a desire to save your brother then if you misdirected the assassin, that will be coming from a place of truth. If you had a desire to save your brother and if you told the assassin the facts, then that will not be coming from a place of truth. This is known as truthful living in that quote by Guru Nanak Dev ji. Recognizing the situation for what it is (knowing the truth) and acting from from a place of recognizing this truth (truthful living) and doing so with utmost clarity and equanimity (truthful living) is what Guru sahib was talking about.

Your using a definition of truth that is not the same as the one Guru Nanak Dev ji is using. Because your brother is your brother and his life is valuable to you. This is also truth. And saving him can only be done by directing the assassin elsewhere. This is also truth. So you speak that which is core to your heart, you speak that which you embody. Do your have desire to save your brother? or not? If you have desire to save your brother and you tell the assassin where he is. Then you lied. You did not speak from a truthful place. Contemplate this.

We've been force-fed certain views, certain beliefs, ideas, that are not present in Guru Granth Sahib. Other ideas that are present in Guru Granth Sahib were ignored because they did not fit their narrative. The pure understanding of Guru Granth Sahib thus has become very difficult to do, and very difficult to teach, since many people hold these other beliefs very strongly. It is already very difficult to grasp begin with and having strong opinions makes it even harder. It won't stop me from trying though.

Kalki Avtaar just means "Kaliyug's avtaar". It includes any avtars that might come after the previous ones were recorded. So our Gurus are Kalki Avtaars. But there will be more Kalki avtaars. There is no limit to his avtaars.

Yea he is often depicted with one as well. A lot of the Gurus did wear it. Bhagat Kabir ji and many other Bhagats were Gurus with their own followings. When a successor Guru was appointed, they would put the topi on his head, put seli around the neck and on topi, and put tilak on forehead and do the arti plate ceremony. There's even a shabad in Guru Granth Sahib describing this process, but I can't seem to remember it very well or find it. Now here Guru Arjun Dev ji is wearing a turban. This is a late 1800s painting and the artists of this time never painted Gurus 2-5 with a cap, only Guru Nanak Dev ji.

It looks like the Nanaksar turban. But it could be a topi in shape of a nanaksar turban lol. There is seli on top of the turban/cap that's good. It should be around the neck or across the chest (like gatra) as well.

@tva prasad Well you can believe whatever you want. However all puratan artwork from 1600s, 1700s, 1800s show Guru Nanak Dev ji with a cap. We also have historical records that say Guru Hari Gobind ji changed the Seli-Topi tradition that the previous Gurus maintained. It was only during recently during 1900s that Guru Nanak Dev ji was painted with a turban. That painting you think is from Baghdad was also painted in modern time, in 1900s. Thakur Singh ji is encouraging people to wear a turban because it is a dying tradition nowadays. It is important that Sikhs maintain it. That's my view anyways.

Gurus 1-5 wore a particular type of cap. They also wore a Seli, which is this black string you see across Guru Nanak Dev ji's chest, in this painting. Sometimes he is depicted wearing it on his cap.

In the post below, I am explaining the different faces of God. It is difficult to see them without meditation and developing what is traditionally known as Divya Drishti, divine sight, which comes from meditation and grace. Avoid reading theories upon theories without meditating. It will not get you anywhere. So this post is not a replacement for meditation. and this post cannot be understood fully without meditation. When in doubt always meditate (instead of thinking). Thinking cannot clear doubt. You (and me) are defining God as consciousness. Yet consciousness is also something within creation. This is because God Consciousness is not the same as Man Consciousness. Absolute Consciousness vs Relative Consciousness. God Time is not the same as Man Time. Absolute Time vs Relative Time (that changes with perception and gravity). So when Guru Granth Sahib is talking about God Consciousness and says time is an illusion. They are speaking from the point of view and from the belief system of Consciousness, where time is changing or a measurement of change. Guru Granth Sahib says Consciousness is ultimately outside of Time. That it is God Consciousness who is entering Time-Space to protect devotees for instance. Guru Amardas ji tells the story of Prahlaad ji, for whom the God Consciousness, Narsingh, appeared before everyone to save him. Absolute Consciousness (Narsingh) entering Time-Space to protect devotees for instance. Guru Amardas ji says ਭਗਤਾ ਕਾ ਅੰਗੀਕਾਰੁ ਕਰਦਾ ਆਇਆ ॥ ਕਰਤੈ ਅਪਣਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥ He always protects his devotees. Once again, the Creator, Narsingh, has showed himself! Dasam Granth considers God Time as the reality and speaks from that and says that Consciousness entering and leaving Time, that is not God. Consciousness is not absolute, consciousness is consumed by God Time. According to Dasam Granth (in Vachitra Natak Granth), ਨਰਸਿੰਘਾਵਤਾਰੰ ॥ ਵਹੈ ਕਾਲ ਮਾਰੰ ॥ Narsingh is simply something appearing in Time, that was destroyed by Time (Kaal) afterwards. From the perspective of Time, Consciousness appears and disappears, Time does not. In Guru Granth Sahib Narsingh is Absolute Consciousness. Hence why they worship Narsingh. ਕਹਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਹਮ ਨਰਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵਹ ਰਾਮੁ ਅਭੈ ਪਦ ਦਾਤਾ ॥ Says Nam Dev, I meditate on Narsingh, the giver of fearlessness, the liberator. So Guru Granth Sahib is saying Kaal is an illusion inside Narsingh. And Dasam Granth is saying that Narsingh is an illusion inside Kaal. Two very different paradigms. Yes and Time is the ultimate oneness and is unchanging and contains all changes. Every change is happening in Time. It is the Eternal Present Moment. Time is also perceived as a moment but the perception also takes place in Time. Dasam Granth (in Vachitra Natak Granth) - ਜਿਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਬੀਤੇ ॥ ਤਿਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤੇ ॥ All things that came into being, were conquered by Time. ਜਿਤੇ ਸਰਨਿ ਜੈਹੈਂ ॥ਤਿਤਿਓ ਰਾਖ ਲੈਹੈਂ ॥੭੫॥ Whoever goes into the sanctuary of Time (called Present Moment), they are saved. Scientific theories are always limited to a certain paradigm. Current science lives in the materialistic paradigm that the Physical Universe is the ultimate reality and everything exists within the Physical only, and the Physical Universe has generated Consciousness through evolution. That's one face of God. We believe that Consciousness generates the physical universe. Physical universe lives inside Consciousness. Hence why Vishnu is called Shri Niwaas, the house of the world itself. Rupert Spira is very good at explaining this. That's another face of God. Keep watching and Rupert also gives a Time-Centric explanation at - 12:38. Maybe you'll understand him better than me. Paradigms with Time at the center is another face of God. Eckharte Tolle is very good at explaining this Time-centric view as well. Read "The Power of Now". In terms of scientific theories - If you listen to Stuart Hammeroff's theory of consciousness. He says it is Space-Time Geometry that collapses into Happenings, which is defined as a moment of Perception. He is essentially saying Time generates Consciousness. Stuart is the guy on the left with the white beard and bald head.

Thanks man. I think I've pretty much got how to tie it, I just need to practice so that I can consistently get that shape, and find out how our ancestors got it to look so neat (that is if they ever tied it neatly). It should appear in that post now that I've uploaded it to the forum. In terms of Sikh gurus - Guru Hari Gobind ji to Guru Gobind Singh ji. As far as I know, previous gurus, Guru Nanak Dev ji to Guru Arjun Dev ji did not wear a turban. That's a different guy.

Thanks brother. Glad you liked it.

Lol. Indeed he is. wink wink ;) They are all badass. They are different representations of that which is at the center of everything. One person might call it consciousness, another might call it energy and another might call it time. The consciousness guy says energy and time are illusions. The energy guy says consciousness and time are illusions. The time guy says consciousness and energy are illusions. It is important to be in touch with that pure essence. I personally prescribe to the Consciousness-centric worldview similar to WakeUp, which is what is expressed in Guru Granth Sahib also, using not the name 'Shiv' or the english word 'consciousness' but instead the names, pictures and stories of - Hari, Vishnu, Ram and Krishna. But I understand other paradigms like that of Adi Shakti (which Opal presented) and that of Mahakal (which I presented), both of which are also discussed in Dasam Granth. One should go into the very deepest essence that one can access. Never lose sight of that essence in all the worldviews and belief systems that exist. That essence alone is ultimately real and not the beliefs you prescribe to. But it is also important to have beliefs. Beliefs are the backbone of your spiritual growth. They are tools that you will use to hammer your intellect and transform it into something beautiful. It is important to have beliefs and to stick by them like Baba Namdev ji did in the court of the Muslim Emperor who wanted him killed for not chanting Allah instead of chanting Hari and Ram. He stood by his belief system even though he understood the belief system of the emperor. While under attack, he rattled his chains and sung of Ram. Namdev ji himself taught do not chant other names, only stick to chanting Ram. It means to stick to a belief system so that you can progress spiritually and learn to taste the essence. Ram was the center of Namdev ji's belief system so that's what he taught. But some people take the wrong meaning out of it and start rejecting other belief systems as ignorance. They say mine is superior and yours is all nonsense. They devote their attention to this pursuit and not the pursuit their belief system is encouraging, thus they do not progress spiritually. Other people take the easy route and accept everything as true without understanding the essence. They say every belief system is good, they become lazy and don't follow any system. They remain ignorant. Thus they do not progress spiritually either. Namdev ji says one who follows a belief system and makes progress in that system is the enlightened one. Now perhaps this shabad will make more sense, when read again in a new light -

Oh no friends. No joke. All measurements (theories) that say time is relative is only really relative to the measurement that is being made. All consciousness that perceives time is only perceiving a portion of time (time that is relative to consciousness). All measurements performed and all consciousnesses perceiving, are getting only portions of time, not the vast present moment in they were measuring and being aware. Time is beyond measurement and it is beyond consciousness. It is the all encompassing eternity. It is the eternal now. The immeasurable now. It includes all relative time that you can understand. But it beyond all relative time. Black holes come and go from existence, consumed by time. It is Mahakal, incomprehensible, immeasurable, imperceptible. You guys understand your paradigms well. Wakeup you understand the paradigm that is Consciousness-centric. You think time and energy are within the field of consciousness. And that limits you from understanding the energy-centric paradigm which Opal presented and time-centric paradigm that I presented. Opal you understand the paradigm that is Energy centric. You think consciousness and time are within the field of energy. And that limits you from understanding the consciousness-centric paradigm that Wakeup presented and time-centric paradigm that I presented. Now I want you to go into your experience of your paradigm. The most pure experience you can generate. Really do it. Clarify your experience, trust it and let it sit and observe it. Can you see how that appears as Consciousness and Energy and Time depending on how you approach it? See the reality of it all, that transcends any individual paradigm, including your own.

You are both wrong! Feast your eyes upon the eternity that is the present moment! Shiv and Shakti both arise out of Mahakal, the supreme Time. Both consciousness and Energy, Shiv and Shakti, are merely arising and falling in Kaal, boundless Father Time! They both arise in the present moment. Mahakal hai Pita Apara. In his body, exists countless consciousnesses, countless forms of energy. Kaal consumes conscious, energy-filled entities for breakfast. Thus Time is ultimately real. All else is false. Time alone is Timeless. None can escape the jaws of Mahakal! Get wrecked

This is the most boring fight ever. BOOOOO!! *throws all popcorn into garbage* Edit - Oh wait, missed the post by Wakeup above. *Pulls out Popcorn from garbage* If time is an illusion did I ever throw away the popcorn?

-_- I got my popcorn ready for nothing. Don't "I see what you mean now" him. He's saying that everything, including energy, arose from consciousness - Vishnu - and it is all basically awareness unfolding in forms. Throw some arguments back with your philosophy on Shakti - how everything is energy, how even consciousness is born of energy.

Known as Adi Shakti!

Very nice. Can you post excerpts talking about Mai Bhago and even other famous personalities?

Good points. What I have been seeing over times is this pattern - - people ignore the meaning of the story - they want to justify that scripture contains modern science (or as athiests - dismiss the scripture as bad science) - they want to look for itty bitty details without having understanding I'd be the first to search and study flat earth references. But I am that position to do so because I have first made efforts to understand what the value of the story, the meaning, the message, is. Now that I understand it, I can satisfy my thirst for finding flat earth references. But if that's the first thing I did is to go looking for flat earth references then I missed the point entirely. And this is what happens. Let's say someone believes that the Earth is round. And in some spiritual book it says the earth is flat. They get so focused on the flat earth part, that they then reject the entire book. This is what modern atheists do. And that is a foolish thing to do in my opinion. I had a Muslim guy show me that verse from the aarti and said look it says Sun and Moon are lamps. We know Moon does not generate its own light, it reflects light, so this is wrong. I just face-palmed. He missed the point. If some flat-earther says look at this verse from aarti, it says Sun and Moon are lamps. I have a theory that moon is a flat disk that generates its own light, and Gurbani confirms it. Its just as cringe-worthy as above. He also missed the point. So first step should be to understand the meaning of the story, the poem.

Yea it was Suraj Prakhash. I read that portion a while ago, couldn't remember where it came from. When was - Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi - written?

That's because it's being talked about from the perspective of standing on the ground and looking up at the sky. But if you are going into Arti trying to see if the Earth is flat or not, you are missing the point.

Mai Bhago ji did so much bhagti she lost attachment and worry of clothes, and walked around naked. When this was brought to Guru Gobind Singh ji's attention Guru Sahib then intervened and told her to cover her body and her head and that walking naked would bring dishonour to her family. That's the original and oldest reference we have to this sakhi.

In addition, you can be a celibate while having sex. Just like you can be Nehkarm (without action) while performing karm (action). The person who is able to hold energy the energy without letting it spill, know him to be Brahmchari... ...whether they have sex or not.

Evolution just means change. Things change over time in different ways. Life itself is change. Evolution is the name given to the changing living organisms.

Dude can I be real with you?