dalsingh101

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that! lol

Well, if I ever needed conformation that my decision to avoid Bollywood films was the right one, I just got it. Thanks. Watching Bollywood lowers your IQ, haven't you heard?

Seems like that to me too. I think aspects of Panjabi culture (at least as it has become these days) is actually haram for the more orthodox. Especially the music. I remember before hard Islam parchaar started in London and when there was a very popular 'asian' bhangra craze. One of the first things that sullay did was to preach against bhangra and very quickly a lot of Pakistanis (who formerly loved it), stopped listening to their Alaap, Heera, DCS cassettes. I also remember the one and only Pak wedding I went to as a teenager and how the olders expressly forbade the playing of Bhangra to the disappointment of my school friend.

What is remarkable, in light of what was contained in that paper, is how so many Pakistanis consider Urdu to be their indigenous language. As a teacher I noticed that second language skills, be they Urdu, Pashtu, Farsi or Panjabi where MUCH higher amongst young Pakistani students compared to Sikhs who, more often than not, were barely able to communicate in their mother tongue. Pakistani students themselves were acutely aware of the issues around Urdu and Panjabi, with some openly claiming that Urdu is a beautiful language whilst Panjabi was 'vulgar' and common. A few Pak proPanjabi students were also aware of the fact that the language was dying in their country without support. Notice how the paper suggests that apnay were cool about teaching their children Panjabi when faced with the associated issues of social mobility restrictions arising from it. It goes back to that old notion of apnay being status obsessed over most other things. The truth is that most of us second gens, learned the language not because we wanted to, but because our parents English was so poor. The inadvertent side effect of this was to make us fluent. But even then you come across those who can understand it, but are unable to speak it. I spoke about this to some freshies (who have very young children here) at the Gurdwara recently and what I found was that they were completely oblivious to the linguistics issues that they will face in relation to their children growing up here. But with that all said, people have never had to so good, with so much literature available for free online, and various free language resources available too (like edictionaries). But it doesn't appear as if the motivation to preserve, develop and learn the language exists to any great extent?

Farmers have been getting doped up to harvest since a long time. Why make a fuss about it now?

I think the only people who think Sikhs are still hardcore martial are members of community itself. I know in London, they aren't considered tough at all. Addition. Actually some Vancouver Sikhs are still murdering nutjobs. They probably scare a few people? Probably just their own?

Nice word! ਲਿਹਾਜ਼

Personally I think back then, the Brit government wouldn't have given a toss. I know in the past sullay used to go to jihads (like Lebanon) from here and they would turn a blind eye to it. If some Sikhs discreetly went and fought in India they wouldn't have made too much of a fuss (then) I reckon. We have to ask why no or very few people from the diaspora went to fight? Especially when Muslims seem to have no problem getting their youth joining in wars. Part of it could've been that the kharkoos thought they never needed any help originally? Plus, now I'm older I suspect the more vocal Khalistanis in the diaspora were actually pussies, who would give it large but never dream of fighting/dying themselves?

This short paper explores the fate of the Panjabi language under British rule, written from a Pakistani perspective. One of the things I found interesting is the author's analysis of why the Brits initially tried to push Urdu as the formal state language for communication after their invasion. The way people subsequently divided themselves along a linguistic basis which was really a barely concealed cleaving along religious lines is important. After the British left, we saw the same pattern emerge during the Panjab suba movement between Sikhs and Hindus. Panjabi language_Rahman.pdf

One thing that people say suggests an early provenance is how he goes into a lot of detail about the political arrangements in Guru Hargobind's time. The suggestion is that he was associated (somehow) with Guru Hargobind in his youth and visited Dasmesh pita in old age? Make of it what you will.

Not really. If mass/western media wants to portray you like that, they will.

I heard when guys from here asked kharkoos if they wanted help. They turned it down. Probably would have helped them if they didn't. Would've forced a wider international focus on events. But then our community may have been portrayed as 'international terrorists' by the west. But it was less likely then as the west never had the massive economic commitments they have in India now.

Sexual grooming of children far worse than thought, says minister Barnardo's warns government plan to tackle abuse and trafficking 'needs to be enforced' A town centre bus station guarded as security officials search for evidence of child sexual exploitation. The government says the problem is more widespread than previously recognised. Photograph: Christopher Thomond for the Guardian The sexual grooming of children in the UK is a much bigger problem than has previously been recognised, the government has said. The children's minister, Tim Loughton, announced that an action plan will be launched to tackle child sexual exploitation, which experts say involves British children as young as 10 being trafficked for sex around the UK. "This isn't something that has just appeared, but the extent of it hasn't been recognised and we are underestimating the problem," Loughton said on Tuesday. "The cleverer we are about it, the more horrified we are likely to be by what we discover." People sometimes struggled to believe that such cruelty could exist in the UK, he said. But he added: "Exploitation is happening here and it is happening now." The government has launched an investigation into the extent of the problem and would use its findings to devise a plan to tackle it, which is due for publication in the autumn, he said. Loughton said he could not give precise details of what it would include, but gathering data and evidence would be a "first major step" to tackling child sexual exploitation and putting it at the heart of policing. He added: "Sexual exploitation has not been fully understood by the judiciary and justice system." The UK's biggest children's charity, Barnardo's, welcomed the move but said the government had to "pick up the pace" as it examines better ways to protect children. The profile of domestic child grooming and trafficking was raised in January after the jailing of a gang of Asian men in Derby who had been grooming girls as young as 12 for sex. The same month nine men in Rochdale were arrested under suspicion of rape, inciting child prostitution, allowing a premises to be used for prostitution and sexual activity with a child. The action plan is likely to look at how police rely on evidence from children, who are often threatened with physical or sexual violence if they talk to authorities, to bring the abusers to justice. It is also likely to look at the intimidating and aggressive nature of court cases which can see children who have been abused by a number of men questioned by several barristers. "What makes this crime doubly difficult to prosecute is that even if children do get over the huge hurdle and want to bring their abuser to justice, they then have to face a judicial process which sometimes treats them as though they were somehow complicit in their abuse," said Loughton. The government would not shy away from looking at whether certain ethnic groups in specific areas were more likely to be involved in sexual exploitation, he said. "If there has been a reluctance to [look at the problem] because of a fear of opening a can of worms, then we have to expose that. I don't care who the perpetrators are, they have to be exposed and brought to justice." But he stressed that sexual exploitation was not confined to one ethnic group. "Operation Retriever [in Derby] centred on one specific ethnic group but in other areas there are different abusers of different ethnic groups. They can be white, middle-class abusers online - exploitation is not a BME [black and minority ethnic] monopoly," he said. Following the Derby case the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre is to investigate "on-street" grooming, and establish whether there are patterns of offending, victimisation, or vulnerability. That report is due next month. Anne Marie Carrie, chief executive of Barnardo's, welcomed the promise of a child sexual exploitation action plan but said it had to have the tools to change the situation. "It's the first step in the right direction but it needs more pace and needs to be enforced," she said. Barnardo's had dealt with 417 children who had been exploited on the day of the announcement, she added. "Those 417 children can't wait, their lives are being trashed while we are devising an action plan," she said.

Following God...okay. But dude what kind of lullo blindly follows orders from up the hierarchy without engaging their brain or questioning it! That's probably what the Nazis relied on to do all their crap. Plus that following your dharma stuff sounds suspiciously like Brahmanism encouraged following of your caste duties unquestioningly. Noooooooooooo!!!!! lol

Truth is that despite a lot of people shouting slogans, the vast majority of people in the west weren't interested in giving up their comfortable lives for struggle. Plus, I believe Sikhs have lost something they had before which makes them look to outside groups (be they governments or other bodies) almost as potential saviours in these situations today. What this indicates (to me) is that Sikhs outside of Panjab felt like they had little or no agency to do anything there. Those hitman style jobs you are talking about are usually carried out by tightly knit nationalist groups with a lot of funds at their disposal. Despite the impression you might get over there (which is understandable given the media hype), in terms of wealth, Sikhs are NOT THAT rich in the diaspora compared to other communities like Russians and Arabs. Sikhs are usually upper working class or new middle class. We don't have any 'old money' or massive fortunes. Sure some families might have a few houses and a few flash mercs, but this is often achieved through very frugal existences and very little day to day waste. Plus they are generally very stingy about spending on anything that doesn't bring a guaranteed return or visible status. So the notion that Sikhs have bundles of cash, enough to throw money at problems like this is miles away from reality. But I can understand why an outsider might think that way, because the media here, in an attempt to show people that migration is working, usually pump all these glory stories about Sikhs. Whereas in reality there are plenty of poor, struggling Sikhs out there. Plus we don't do secrecy very well. We always seem to get either grassed up or infiltrated when people try maneuvers like this. Remember the Ghadr movement anyone? If we are really honest to each other here, it does appear like often Sikhs are actually quite naturally passive/aggressive to their own. This doesn't allow for sophisticated plans to be thought out and implemented successfully. Plus it's hard to be a subtle, international man of mystery 'James Bond' type, with a bright orange turban on.

Our lot seem a bit mota dimaagh'd for ninja moves like that.

Although I understand that the act of inserting morphine into a patient can be directly related to what occurs afterwards, perhaps on another level the impression that you have so much control over the lives/deaths of these people is a false one? In Japji we read we have: ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੀਵਣਿ ਮਰਣਿ ਨਹ ਜੋਰੁ ॥ No power to live, no power to die. Actually, I know that this is a gross simplification of the matter and not helpful at all. What I can say is that when it comes to the end, and a person's quality of life has diminished to such an extent that they are not in control of their physical, mental faculties, many of us would probably consider it a blessing to be sent on our way (I know I would). Morbid, but true. Just don't ever get callous and mechanical about it I guess, and always fill yourself up with compassion for your patients, right till the end. Whatever else they've faced up until that point, you do have the power to ensure that they pass on with a good heart/soul around them. That's how I would like to see things if I ever ended up under those circumstances.

When you fuse those two narratives from PP, you seem to get today's accepted narrative of Vasaikhi 1699. Curious.

ਕਰਮਜੋਗ

What I was trying to get at was that anyone who challenges the accepted narrative of Vasaikhi 1699 will quickly experience grief. I almost guarantee the old 'RSS agent' tag with stick to them like glue and you'll get the usual hysteria and paranoia. I don't know about those sources you mention. It almost like nothing supports the existing narrative then...POW...along come these accounts that are unlike all the others. The Guru Kian Sakhian provenance is hardcore murky as well, with no original manuscript.

You start playing around with the narrative of Vasaikhi, you are asking for trouble.

Amended with info from Khoji: The definition of literature, its form, style and purpose and other subjects The exchange of ideas between north, east and west Has been taking place, since we have been able to acquire reliable writing tools. What is ਵਿਸ਼ਿਆਂ ????

I think ਸਾਹਿਤ means art/literature? Does it make sense in context?

Give it to us in context.

I think she might be. It seems to be her behind this website dedicated to Hari Singh. http://www.harisinghnalwa.com/in_defence.html