dalsingh101

I'm sharing this interesting piece of ephemera. It was distributed from a Gurdwara in Teheran (Iran) and first published in 1965. I wonder if the gurdwara is still there? You can see a picture of it on the last page. The booklet is in good shape, considering it is more than 40 years old. It predates the rise of Ayatollah Khomeini and his revolution! http://www.scribd.com/doc/54989885/An-introduction-to-Sikh-belief-by-Mrs-P-M-Wylam

Let's be real. The causal factors behind what you're referring to here are multifaceted and complex. It's not a one or two issues that cause this but multiple ones, that span over a wide time frame.

Maybe your language skills are good enough not to need this? Mine certainly aren't. I need all the extra practice I can get.

What are Punjabi films today anyway? They just appear to be films about clean shaven Jatt men with characteristics that are (I imagine) reflective of ideal models of behaviour in the target audience community? Probably also reflect the ongoing concerns of the target audience too. How do you think they damage Sikhs (other than the obvious constant caste reinforcement)?

Cool! ਨਿਰ ਨ ਭਾਉ I know ਭਾਉ usually means love, as a guess I'd go with loveless?

Look at this comic, stereotypical portrayal of a Scottish man. What I find amazing is how the Scots are confident enough about themselves with this. What do you make of it in context of how we are frequently portrayed in film? I know one big difference here is that the producers of this show seem to be Scots themselves whilst those people who make us look like clowns are outsiders. Would it help to create our own comic character(s) that dealt with our own issues using black comedy? Somehow I doubt I people have the wit and humour for such a thing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kHWDraHADA&feature=related

ਨਿਗਰ - Can apparently mean food or solid, hard, heavy (ਨਿੱਗਰ). ਟਲ਼ਨਾ (??) can mean to escape, go away, slink, slipaway; to refrain, abstain; (for mishap or calamity) not to happen, not to befall, to spare; (for joints) to be dislocated; to be put off, postponed, deferred, delayed. ਟੱਲ means bell. Do these makes sense in context? Sometimes it help to type the sentence you encountered it in, if we don't get it right off. Is the spelling of the first word right?

Well if we look at the meaning: 'Jo bole so nihal': S/he who speaks it, becomes fulfilled (?? any better interpretations of nihal folks?) 'Sat Sri Akal': The eternal Lord is truth. It sort of suggests, that saying Sat Sri Akal brings fulfillment upon the person that speaks it? Maybe this is the genesis of it's more common usage amongst us? Using the phrase seems to be considered rewarding? I notice SSA is also closer to the 'Sat Kartar' mentioned by Amardeep. I know, it's purely conjecture by the way. lol Talking from personal experience, growing up, SSA was used infinitely more than fateh. Maybe the point to draw is the common Sikh greetings seem to have gone through a number of changes over time? Is this something that might happen again in future I wonder?

Just a theory, but maybe at some point people said: 'Jo boley so nihal' on meeting Sikhs, which was responded to with 'Sat Sri Akal' In time just the 'Sat Sri Akal' bit stuck. ???? It does however see to be a modern trend. No old account I know of mentions SSA.

That doesn't matter, nor am I. The whole point is to develop in the area.

Brother you should try and contribute to it more frequently. Especially as your first language is Panjabi. Some words get used in colloquial ways that aren't in any dictionaries. That's when we need fluent guys like yourself. Whilst we're on the topic do you know what the difference between ਬੂਝ and ਸੂਝ is?

There is a rule here. You must post words in Gurmukhi text brother. Use this to type up words if you need it: http://g2s.learnpunjabi.org/unipad.aspx

Whilst we are on the subject what about the instructions to 'Guru Guru Jap' in hukam namas as opposed to Waheguru, anyone shed some light? Sat Siri Akal is obvious an abbreviation of the Jaikara which some people must have used as a greeting at some point?

What does this phrase mean? ਮੰਨੇ-ਪ੍ਰਮੰਨੇ

ਤਿਥੈ ਭਗਤ ਵਸਹਿ ਕੇ ਲੋਅ ॥ ਕਰਹਿ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਸਚਾ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਇ ॥ The devotees of many worlds dwell there. They celebrate; their minds are imbued with the True Lord.

I looked up Dabistan and found this statement regard 6th patshah: Anyone know the source of the claim that Guru Har Rai had 2000+ soldiers?

Enlightenment seems to get packaged and sold a lot these days, complete with some bloke selling it to you through some process of 'techniques'. Marketing the ineffable. It still feels like a level of detachment from corporate religious practices is healthy or maybe it's more to do with my personal unsocial predilection? Who knows??? I do know that there is nothing more tiresome than the 'technically perfect religious person', who dogmatically follows every last prescript, yet still manages to have no soul or heart?? I find that strange to the extreme. I think such people work as the opposite to magnets in terms of attracting people to faith based lives. I'd bet they play a large role in many people preferring some gaseous spirituality over the organised kind?

Apparently there is some later (by 100 years!) blasphemous account by one Ghulam Husain (called Siyar-ul- Mutakharm), that claims Guru ji (9th) wondered around with a large following 'extorting' the populace. But that is most likely just later Moghul excusary for what they did.

Mercenaries are usually quite shrewed and usually seeking better pay/conditions. I'm sure they would have come and gone quite fluidly from Sikh employment. Perhaps the numbers steadily decreased towards the latter part of the 6th Gurus physical life when things became more peaceful? No one is talking about a large scale dismissal, rather small groups coming and going, but mostly going towards the end. Because it's based on oral traditions. I don't know of any personally. The images from that time however seem indicative. He frequently has a falcon on his wrist which is something we attribute to dasvin patshah today. Plus it's well known he got his name Tegh Bahdur after showing martial prowess when younger in his fathers original conflicts. Maybe the tradition Guru ji later had a long period of renunciation at Bakala until his discovery by Makkhan Shah is accurate though?

Sarbat, fix up man. You've gone mental with this stuff. At least put all this buckwaas in one single thread instead of swamping us with it. Maybe see a gyani or psychiatrist as well whilst you're at it? It's like you are having a one way conversation with yourself, adding 3/4 long copy and pasted posts to a single thread without making any coherent point. It's like you are doing the cyber equivalent of talking to yourself. Snap out of it. Admin, help him out by restricting his posts for a bit until he calms down....Mitar hit the nail on the head, he's turning this place into Islamawareness.com

Let's look at it logically and see what we come out with? We know a force existed and fought under Guru Hargobind ji. Tradition asserts that Guru Har Rai retained some cavalry to, although this period was one of diplomacy, not conflict. Remember, there were heavy losses to the small original Sikh force under Guru Hargobind anyway and large sections of it were made up of mercenaries. So the force would have shrunk significantly when they disbanded the mercenaries? Gur Harkrisen didn't seem to command any conspicuous force, so maybe an implicit understanding arose around this time that sort of dissolved a formal standing force, with a smaller group of personal guards remaining? I think the remnants of these survived as the later gathering around dasmesh pita, during his childhood, out of range of Mogul jurisdiction in Bihar (not sure if Bihar was out of Moghul jurisdiction at that time, maybe someone can confirm?). These remnants formed the core of dasmesh pitas's earlier (preKhalsa) force i.e. the ones he fought the hill rajah with. The point is fluidity. Any force would have grown or shrunk as the situation required. Swelled with both Sikhs and mercenaries. Until the Khalsa was formed.

Maybe later, can't find the book right now. I have to say (about that Mann guy), sure, some of his work is insightful, but the way he pulls out single tuks from Gurbani and puts so much on them is tenuous to the extreme.

Just a pedantic point: It was Tyaag Mal, not Tegh Mal. Also, we should note how contemporary/near contemporary representations seem to portray nauvay padshah in a regal cum military light, whereas today, Sobha Singh's representation along lines of piety have come to dominate our imagination of the Guru. Do the original regal style representations suggest that Guru ji retained some Sikh military capacity?

Or it might just tip you over? Get a grip of yourself man.

Some of them did mention not cutting their hair. But no, I'm not trying to say they completely followed SRM without knowing it. Just that there was frequently lots of overlap. These days in the west you do get a lot of people who claim that spirituality is very important to them but not religion. They were the kind I was talking about. I understand your point. But the truth is that people often go into religion to experience some intangible notion of 'purity' that alleviates them from the common everyday worldly experience (which is perceived as besmirching). When interacting with the entity of the organised religion itself becomes a very part of the worldly besmirching that they are seeking to transcend, it's no surprise that they back away from it. I see it a lot with RCs in relation to the mass pedophilia that takes place in their institutes. I find the very personal nature of simran and prayer in Sikhi a good antidote to this. So hypothetically, no matter how corrupt our institutes might become, I can always draw on them without having to seriously engage with the theoretical manifestation of a corrupted corporate religion. Now I presume RCs couldn't do this because of the centrality of formal confession in their faith? Plus people could counter your bathwater argument by saying no, they were actually throwing out the dirty bathwater and preserving the baby by following a non-institutionalised form of God worship. That being said (as I alluded to previously), organised religion can also be a super powerful device to unite humans and focus their energies to a common goal. Like how our faith overcame oppression in the 1700s. Purely individualised worship seems to forgo this. So it has it's disadvantages too.