Only five

Singh, you say Muslim and I ask on what bases was Bhai Mardana a Muslim. Can you define Muslim, Sikh and Singh for us here.

Bhai mardana, was a Muslim,lol. How does one stay a Muslim, what requirements do you need to meet to be a Muslim?

drugs, alcohol, swords, meat, maybe a bond fire and these Sanatan Sikhs got themselves a party. Rock on guys keep waiting for a war with swords. I believe guns are the new weapons of choice, but it's only 2009, so let's wait till guns come in automatics. Seriously, One of the comments made by this Sukha fellow was alcohol is used to losen up. Now doesn't Gurbani relax the mind. Well Guru Sahib tells us it does. I think these guys are spending too much time on playing knights on drugs and forgetting about the main goal.

Yeah i know how it seems that way because of the constant arguements with Kalyug. I'm done with it see the post above this. HSD read the article I put forward. If you read it carefully, its not even saying meat should be taken as bad or good. What the article I wrote does show is the mistakes made in the article "Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh" This is what all Kalyug is fighting about. Randip's article was seen as gold. And now it isn't. On my end, I'm done and showed what I wanted to show. Now it's on the meathead lol, to bring forward what they want to say. The only people that are making a big deal out of what I wrote is the meatheads. Yes I did put it on three sites. Nothing wrong with that just sharing the info. I have to get involved when stupid arguements are put forward. This is not about being perfect. Good you brought this up. Thanks Gluttony is a wrong action in Sikhi. Only reason I brought up the science study of plants feel pain because it shows how riducilous it is to bring science into when we are discussing what Guru Sahib said. Science can say many thing's but it does not speak for Guru Sahib. Sure it can agree with Guru Sahib, but never disprove Guru Sahib. So that's why it's best to leave it out and doesn't prove one way or the other. When you read the sugar cane Shabad it is speaking metaphorically and literally. Well I see it that way and it does make sense both ways. Not really, but as I said earlier plants and animals are not equal. The above answers this one Sorry, HSD this is not about gathering votes, but presenting the errors in an article "Fools who Wrangle Over Flesh". If he wants to gather up more fools with him then that's his choice. If he Randip Singh wants to mislead more people then that is his choice. But i presented what I wanted and am not here to get votes or someones backing. Hence why i don't write under my real name. Wrote as Singh on SPN and now write as Only Five on sikhsangat and here. SPN member Tejwant begged me to disclose my real name, but never will. Because I am not one who prides over being right and wanting everyone to know who wrote it. For me it's all about learning and continuing to move forward. Even when I wrote to Mr. Nisher about his article I wrote just as Singh. It doesn't matter who present the data, just it's out there for everyone to see. Come on HSD, you actually think I am that big of an influence. Plus a person that reads Bani shouldn't have such a short fuse and be moved so easily. I can't sway anyone one way or the other. Just presenting a side and if some want to go out and eat meat because they can't come up with a counter arguement-says alot about where they stand. It means they are unwilling to look at the facts and be truthful with themselves. I can't force or will never force anyone to be truthful to themselves. I have bad habits aswell, but will acknowledge them and try to better myself. Cool heads is the best way to go. Like I said above. I am done discussing something that has nothing left to discuss. All there is left now is personal attacks and short fuses. It's closed on my end, till Randip Singh writes or one of his team members. For the ones that gave it a shot to answer my questions. Thanks for all your efforts.

Please go read the newer study's and how plants feel pain when pulled out of the ground and peeled or boiled or eaten. Thanks. Plus science is just a thoery of what is, not 100% fact and does not stand for what Guru Sahib have said. So please present only what Guru Sahib have said on this topic to answer the question I put forward. SPN was brought up because Randip writes there and will be able to get his team to answer my questions. They need to fix up the article "Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh" so it does not misrepresent what Sikhs say about meat and non meat. And my questions that show their mispresentation should be posted allover the net and to where Randip Singh article was posted else where. This would be only the honest thing to do for them and anyone that promoted the article. Pleas, Please leave the personal comments out when answering. Thanks

Any personal comment, I will not respond too. But this one I will. Not part of any Bhai Randhir Singh cult. Not part of any jatha or group. And the slapping bit is a metaphor, so it's best to understand in context. Personal attack so won't comment. Again personal attacks are ignored and Randips article has holes in it. And if you say where then read the view I put forward that started this whole dicussion. More personal things being thrown around, so no point on answering. The questions put holes in Randip singh views and intrepration. I put questions forward that point out mistakes in the article "Fools who Wrangle Over Flesh" Just waiting for them to be answered. Thanks Again personal comments won't be answered too. Not concerned with what people eat just put holes in Randip Singh article "Fools who Wrangle Over Flesh". Now he has to find ways to fill those holes. That panktis is presented because the article "Fools Wrangle over Flesh" present it and misintrepreted it to suit them. And all I did was point out that meat was grouped as one and is before the Rahaoo. personal again so no comment. Just going to smile the whole way. Not related to this topic. So going to ignore like the personal comments. Thanks "And yes, the hamburger was tasty, and raagmala is Gurbani. K." More personal comments that have nothign to do with topic on hand. Well I'll clear up raagmala is Gurbani aswell. Thanks

Then what light has it brought on this discussion. It hasn't done anything Singh. You said plants don't feel pain by using science and i came back and said plants do feel pain using science. Back at square one Singh, I want Randip Singh to answer the questions I presented. And so far the whole SPN team, Aman Singh, Naranoyjot Kaur, Randip Singh, Tejwant Singh, Gyani Jarnail Singh have been quiet on it. Well Gyani did try, but got what was coming to him. These guys are quiet for a reason. It's so others can take this discussion off track and then they will come riding on there high horses and give off topic answers. There waiting for an opportunity to do what they do best. And so far it has not present itself. Maybe in this life time they will give an answer. Let's just wait patiently. Chardikala Singh

Science is being present to take this off track and find a way to answer these questions in deception. That's why i said I am looking for definite answers and not theories. Your right only Guru's teachings should be looked at. But what can you do when others are trying to find anyway to get out of a jam.

Singh, we shouldn't start shooting others and saying your dividing the panth. The man who wrote this article, Randip Singh made mistakes in his article and I pointed them out. Now you should be telling Randip Singh to come up with a better way to promote his meat eating. He's pro meat and if you haven't noticed i am not pro anything just following as told. And asking why. If you see my points as splitting the panth, then that because it's not in your favor. The day you stop saying I am on this side or the other is the day you'll see what I presented clearly.

Singh, you should have gone further into biology because it's not a new fact that plants do feel pain, when pulled from the ground, cut, boiled and eaten. Science your last resort, which is off topic and I should have told you from the start but I let it slide, has said plants feel pain. And if this is your new way of answering the questions I put forward. Well then it's been smacked in the face. And Randip Singh has said plants and animals are in the same joon. so if your going to use science then I recommend you find to prove this is true. First one didn't turn out in your favor, but maybe this one will. But a quick reminder, your using a limited proffession based on theories. Not looking for theories here, but a definite answer. I said this from while ago. So don't be smart and say your only saying this now. Keep the emotions out of this. regards Singh and good luck

You got some anger issues man. All of a sudden now it's a mission, but when Randip Singh and his team spread his article allover the net you didn't come out throwing fist of "mission of God". It's visible your not neutral on this topic like Randip Singh. Now Randip Singh's article has been shown in it's true colors your having pms. Thank Mr. Nisher for writing the second article about meat and jhatka because that's where i found this Randip characters mistakes. Seriously thank Mr.Nisher for it. Now the vail of this illusionist article of Randip has been lifted. Where is the aggression. The aggression is coming from you because you don't like what's happening. I presented a view, which turned out to show the wrong doing in the article "Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh". And I take it you were satisfied with that article because it was in your favor. Now all of a sudden there are holes in the article and your MAD, really MAD. Too bad Singh. Did I quote Gurbani. No the Gurbani I quoted was the one meat eaters justified animals and plants feel pain and are equal on the food line. ONly thing i did was point out the mistakes they made and put holes in an article that once was regarded as truth. Sorry to burst your bubble Singh, but it was going to happen sooner or later. Ate meat how and when and for what reason. Again this is off topic. Start a new topic on what Chardikala Singhs ate. I didn't intrepret any panktis. All I did was take how the meat eaters, Randip Singh, intrepreted the panktis and proved him wrong. Now you can't blame me for that one. Blame Randip Singh for being such big of a meat lover. Happy Happy Mcdonalds to you Singh. You gotta stop being personal here. This is not a personal discussion.

LOL, control that anger man. The video of Sant ji was up while ago. I just took the time to intrepret what he was saying for the ones that don't understand the language. Or is it, that's why your pissed. If you don't agree with Sant ji then just say what you want and no feelings are involved. Lastly, you don't have to reply right away. Go calm down and then give an answer. And just maybe you'll come up with a better response that doesn't take us off topic.

HSD, all i wanted to do is make these meat eaters aware what they were spiting out of there mouth. And now since they have to go back on their first interpretation of the shabad on ang sung 142-143 tells us they will do anything to say we can eat meat as they do today. The desire of the tongue makes them do many wrong deeds. For me this debate is over, just want an answer from these guys. So it can be recorded as to what they said next. What excuse they come up with. The head guys of this meat promoting know who they are and should present an answer now or when they are ready with a solid answer that will not be smacked across there face as was done with the sugar cane and what is meat and what is a vegatable shabads. That shabad which i refered to is on ang sung 1289 and it's the shabad Sant ji intrepreted. http://gurmatveechar....%28Vaar%29.mp3 This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Malaar on Pannaa 1289 mÚ 1 ] ma 1 || First Mehla: mwsu mwsu kir mUrKu JgVy igAwnu iDAwnu nhI jwxY ] maas maas kar moorakh jhagarrae giaan dhhiaan nehee jaanai || The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom. kauxu mwsu kauxu swgu khwvY iksu mih pwp smwxy ] koun maas koun saag kehaavai kis mehi paap samaanae || What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin? gYNfw mwir hom jg kIey dyviqAw kI bwxy ] gai(n)addaa maar hom jag keeeae dhaevathiaa kee baanae || It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering. mwsu Coif bYis nku pkVih rwqI mwxs Kwxy ] maas shhodd bais nak pakarrehi raathee maanas khaanae || Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night. PVu kir lokW no idKlwvih igAwnu iDAwnu nhI sUJY ] farr kar lokaa(n) no dhikhalaavehi giaan dhhiaan nehee soojhai || They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. nwnk AMDy isau ikAw khIAY khY n kihAw bUJY ] naanak a(n)dhhae sio kiaa keheeai kehai n kehiaa boojhai || O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. AMDw soie ij AMDu kmwvY iqsu irdY is locn nwhI ] a(n)dhhaa soe j a(n)dhh kamaavai this ridhai s lochan naahee || They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts. mwq ipqw kI rkqu inpMny mCI mwsu n KWhI ] maath pithaa kee rakath nipa(n)nae mashhee maas n khaa(n)hee || They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat. iesqRI purKY jW inis mylw EQY mMDu kmwhI ] eisathree purakhai jaa(n) nis maelaa outhhai ma(n)dhh kamaahee || But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh. mwshu inMmy mwshu jMmy hm mwsY ky BWfy ] maasahu ni(n)mae maasahu ja(n)mae ham maasai kae bhaa(n)ddae || In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. igAwnu iDAwnu kCu sUJY nwhI cquru khwvY pWfy ] giaan dhhiaan kashh soojhai naahee chathur kehaavai paa(n)ddae || You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar. bwhr kw mwsu mMdw suAwmI Gr kw mwsu cMgyrw ] baahar kaa maas ma(n)dhaa suaamee ghar kaa maas cha(n)gaeraa || O master, you believe that flesh on the outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good. jIA jMq siB mwshu hoey jIie lieAw vwsyrw ] jeea ja(n)th sabh maasahu hoeae jeee laeiaa vaasaeraa || All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home in the flesh. ABKu BKih BKu qij Cofih AMDu gurU ijn kyrw ] abhakh bhakhehi bhakh thaj shhoddehi a(n)dhh guroo jin kaeraa || They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind. mwshu inMmy mwshu jMmy hm mwsY ky BWfy ] maasahu ni(n)mae maasahu ja(n)mae ham maasai kae bhaa(n)ddae || In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. igAwnu iDAwnu kCu sUJY nwhI cquru khwvY pWfy ] giaan dhhiaan kashh soojhai naahee chathur kehaavai paa(n)ddae || You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar. mwsu purwxI mwsu kqybNØI chu juig mwsu kmwxw ] maas puraanee maas kathaeba(n)aee chahu jug maas kamaanaa || Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. jij kwij vIAwih suhwvY EQY mwsu smwxw ] jaj kaaj veeaahi suhaavai outhhai maas samaanaa || It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them. iesqRI purK inpjih mwshu pwiqswh sulqwnW ] eisathree purakh nipajehi maasahu paathisaah sulathaanaa(n) || Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat. jy Eie idsih nrik jWdy qW aun@ kw dwnu n lYxw ] jae oue dhisehi narak jaa(n)dhae thaa(n) ounh kaa dhaan n lainaa || If you see them going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them. dyNdw nrik surig lYdy dyKhu eyhu iD|wxw ] dhae(n)adhaa narak surag laidhae dhaekhahu eaehu dhhin(g)aanaa || The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this injustice. Awip n bUJY lok buJwey pWfy Krw isAwxw ] aap n boojhai lok bujhaaeae paa(n)ddae kharaa siaanaa || You do not understand your own self, but you preach to other people. O Pandit, you are very wise indeed. pWfy qU jwxY hI nwhI ikQhu mwsu aupMnw ] paa(n)ddae thoo jaanai hee naahee kithhahu maas oupa(n)naa || O Pandit, you do not know where meat originated. qoieAhu AMnu kmwdu kpwhW qoieAhu iqRBvxu gMnw ] thoeiahu a(n)n kamaadh kapaahaa(n) thoeiahu thribhavan ga(n)naa || Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water. qoAw AwKY hau bhu ibiD hCw qoAY bhuqu ibkwrw ] thoaa aakhai ho bahu bidhh hashhaa thoai bahuth bikaaraa || Water says, ""I am good in many ways."" But water takes many forms. eyqy rs Coif hovY sMinAwsI nwnku khY ivcwrw ]2] eaethae ras shhodd hovai sa(n)niaasee naanak kehai vichaaraa ||2|| Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks. ||2||

Sant ji on this issue first gave examples of Gursikhs. He gave the example of Baba Deep Singh ji and how he didn't eat meat and he wrote four birs. Then he says the Singhs that fought for the panth and lived in the jungles did eat meat, but only for survival because they had a bigger cause. And even the meat they ate was not cooked. Then he says the person that eats for taste and says i will get big(Randip Singh needs to listen to this) is doing wrong. Sant ji doesn't agree with eating meat for a person that reads Gurbani. He says the person won't even eat it. Correct me if I'm wrong on describing what Sant ji said.

You say vegtables are not complicated. But this doesn't answer the question whether they feel pain or not? So now answer if they feel pain because some scientist say the plants do feel pain.

Singh, you say the sugar cane feels pain. Fine. Now answer the questions I asked you. Whether vegafascitst prefer to eat something or not is immaterial. Whether meat eaters will eat something is also immaterial. These questions are important because they show the hypocrisy in the meat eaters. The OP is there so don't ask me to repeat myself.

LOL, "wiseguy" HSD that shabad about the sugar cane is the center piece of the meat eaters argument. They will fight to death to say it is saying plants suffer. To the question I asked it doesn't matter because either way they are stuck and need to answer the question i put forward. Meat eaters need to understand how important that question is, in this arguement and answering it is, should be their number 1 goal now. Here is another shabad they like to use. When Guru Nanak Dev ji says, what is meat and what is not. The question i asked destroys their(meat eaters) arguement here because if everything is meat then why two different methods of killing the same food group. It doesn't hold Again they are not understanding the shabad. And the wisea** that will ask me what is your understanding of the shabad will get the same reply i gave that Gyani Jarnail Singh from SPN. Doesn't matter. Jhatka, which they thought was in their favor is, now a thorn in their neck. Well for the most of them cuz the others are not aware of this question that has not been answered. The brain behind the meaters (Randip Singh) that loves to promote the article "Fools Who Wrangle over Flesh" has not even tempted to answer these questions. The Gyani Jarnail SIngh character on http://www.tapoban.org/forum/list.php?1 gave me the run around and he got called on it. Then he runs for the hills because he found out it wasn't going to work. He would love it if this question would be asked at SPN where these people( I was going to slander here, but i refrained from it) have control over what can be written. To bad I'm banned from there. Neither would I even discuss there because it's not a neutral place. They don't believe in fairness at SPN. Faujasingh learned the hard way today in the thread enough is enough. So is that a challenge to the meat eaters, sure it is. Answer the questions. No one should take offense on these questions because your belief system is not built on or exist of your beliefs, but what Guru Sahib has told us. Guru Sahib said perform Jhatka on animals and your doing it. Was there rules when to perform jhatka and when not to-placed on it, sure there was. Some just chose to forget them and over time they became non-existent.

Yes thank you for this infot. Will listen to it when i get the time.

I present this shabad over and over because the meat eaters present this shabad to say plants also feel pain. If you think this is not the real understanding of this shabad then u should be behind me 100% on asking the questions I ask. And if u believe here Guru Sahib is speaking metaphorically and telling us animals feel pain then still you should be asking the same questions as I am. As HSD was kind enough to explain the sugar cane represent the royal people in this world. The rich the wealthy that have forgotten God. Anyway you understand this shabad and interpret it really doesn't matter- you still should be asking questions because the meat eaters use it to say plants feel pain. Now are the meat eaters wrong in this way of using the shabad or do you agree with them.

Anyone want to share this info.

Why have you not mentioned where the Rahaoo is in this shabad. Here I'll present it for everyone. And where Guru Sahib says after so long you took this human form. And its before the Rahaoo; core of the Shabad This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 176 gauVI guAwryrI mhlw 5 ] gourree guaaraeree mehalaa 5 || Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehla: keI jnm Bey kIt pqMgw ] kee janam bheae keett patha(n)gaa || In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect; keI jnm gj mIn kurMgw ] kee janam gaj meen kura(n)gaa || in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer. keI jnm pMKI srp hoieE ] kee janam pa(n)khee sarap hoeiou || In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake. keI jnm hYvr ibRK joieE ]1] kee janam haivar brikh joeiou ||1|| In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1|| imlu jgdIs imln kI brIAw ] mil jagadhees milan kee bareeaa || Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him. icrMkwl ieh dyh sMjrIAw ]1] rhwau ] chira(n)kaal eih dhaeh sa(n)jareeaa ||1|| rehaao || After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause|| keI jnm sYl igir kirAw ] kee janam sail gir kariaa || In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains; keI jnm grB ihir KirAw ] kee janam garabh hir khariaa || in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb; keI jnm swK kir aupwieAw ] kee janam saakh kar oupaaeiaa || in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves; lK caurwsIh join BRmwieAw ]2] lakh chouraaseeh jon bhramaaeiaa ||2|| you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2|| swDsMig BieE jnmu prwpiq ] saadhhasa(n)g bhaeiou janam paraapath || Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life. kir syvw Bju hir hir gurmiq ] kar saevaa bhaj har har guramath || Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har. iqAwig mwnu JUTu AiBmwnu ] thiaag maan jhoot(h) abhimaan || Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance. jIvq mrih drgh prvwnu ]3] jeevath marehi dharageh paravaan ||3|| Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3|| jo ikCu hoAw su quJ qy hogu ] jo kishh hoaa s thujh thae hog || Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord. Avru n dUjw krxY jogu ] avar n dhoojaa karanai jog || No one else can do anything at all. qw imlIAY jw lYih imlwie ] thaa mileeai jaa laihi milaae || We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself. khu nwnk hir hir gux gwie ]4]3]72] kahu naanak har har gun gaae ||4||3||72|| Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72|| In the above shabad the animals are grouped toegther and presented in the Rahaoo; the core of the shabad. Why does Guru Sahib tells us to stop here and think. And adds after so long you attained this human body here. Why didn't he as these meat eaters, like to use this shabad put it the Rahaoo after sayin in so many incarnation you were branches and leaves. Lastly, you point out that Guru's knew the plants can feel, so why didn't Guru Sahib prescribe a less painful way to kill plants as Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji prescribed for animals; Jhatka.

True Where does Gurbani say this, that plant have the same joon as an animal. If it has the same Joon then why kill an animal with one strike as prescribed by the Jhatka way in which the animal feels no or little pain and for a sugar cane we can put it through so much pain and suffering. Why have two standards of kiliing the same joon? Why let one suffer and the other we don't? Well I shouldn't say we cuz that isn't fair. So let's say the meat eaters.

LOL Why do you agree that plants and animals are the same on the food line. If so what is the reason behind this and then why do we have two different ways on cutting one food group. I know you were kidding about that morcha thing but I need an answer to the above question. I know HSD has given an answer, but it's opinion, which I agree with, but I am looking for an definite answer to the question.

Singh not against jhatka, but against eating meat as a regular meal or for special events. For me meat is only for that one time when it's about survival and that's all there is left to eat. yes physically the head has been cut. Here read this about a chicken that lived for 18 months after his head was cut off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken We have to be considerate to both,I agree but we are more considerate to animals. Yes I know in your opinion you consider animals and plants not equal. But I was wonder if Guru Sahib was telling us the samething when he prescribed a painless death for Animals. Was Guru Sahib telling us animals are higher on the food chain than plants. After reading ang sung 142 and then 143 shabad of the sugar cane. That is a metaphor. So is Guru Sahib at all talking about plants here. Is Guru Sahib actually saying plants suffer when being crushed? Or is it also saying plants suffer and it is a metaphor. Can it be both. If not then those use this shabad to say plants suffer aswell are misintrepreting the shabad to prove their point and have a nice steak every friday. i agree with you plants and animals are not equal, but in what sense do you say not equal. When I say not equal I say animal are higher on the food chain and plants are lower. And that's why Guru Sahib told us to kill an animal quickly. And the whole part of plants being part of the reincarnation system is a vague one. But here is a shabad that speaks on what we were in our past lives or am I misunderstanding this shabad and missing the big picture. This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 176 gauVI guAwryrI mhlw 5 ] gourree guaaraeree mehalaa 5 || Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehla: keI jnm Bey kIt pqMgw ] kee janam bheae keett patha(n)gaa || In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect; keI jnm gj mIn kurMgw ] kee janam gaj meen kura(n)gaa || in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer. keI jnm pMKI srp hoieE ] kee janam pa(n)khee sarap hoeiou || In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake. keI jnm hYvr ibRK joieE ]1] kee janam haivar brikh joeiou ||1|| In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1|| imlu jgdIs imln kI brIAw ] mil jagadhees milan kee bareeaa || Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him. icrMkwl ieh dyh sMjrIAw ]1] rhwau ] chira(n)kaal eih dhaeh sa(n)jareeaa ||1|| rehaao || After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause|| keI jnm sYl igir kirAw ] kee janam sail gir kariaa || In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains; keI jnm grB ihir KirAw ] kee janam garabh hir khariaa || in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb; keI jnm swK kir aupwieAw ] kee janam saakh kar oupaaeiaa || in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves; lK caurwsIh join BRmwieAw ]2] lakh chouraaseeh jon bhramaaeiaa ||2|| you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2|| swDsMig BieE jnmu prwpiq ] saadhhasa(n)g bhaeiou janam paraapath || Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life. kir syvw Bju hir hir gurmiq ] kar saevaa bhaj har har guramath || Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har. iqAwig mwnu JUTu AiBmwnu ] thiaag maan jhoot(h) abhimaan || Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance. jIvq mrih drgh prvwnu ]3] jeevath marehi dharageh paravaan ||3|| Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3|| jo ikCu hoAw su quJ qy hogu ] jo kishh hoaa s thujh thae hog || Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord. Avru n dUjw krxY jogu ] avar n dhoojaa karanai jog || No one else can do anything at all. qw imlIAY jw lYih imlwie ] thaa mileeai jaa laihi milaae || We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself. khu nwnk hir hir gux gwie ]4]3]72] kahu naanak har har gun gaae ||4||3||72|| Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72|| Also there is something about the rehaoo. Look where Guru Sahib tells us to stop and think about what Sabad Guru is saying. Also before the rehaoo he groups all the meat together. Why did the meats get grouped together and they are to be contemplated over and is the core of the Shabad? Also after saying you were this animal and that he then says now is the time to meet the Lord. After so long the human body has been given to you. Why would Guru Sahib stop here. Because after the rehaoo Guru Sahib continues saying we wer incarnation as rocks montains and so on.

This is all trivial because i am not condemning Jhataka, Singh. Understand in the context what is being presented by others and then why I say it's trivial. Sarbat da Bhalla is what these guys had to say about Inuits. Better yet i should have said it right off the bat and saved the trouble. Again that modern weapon stuff and killing a goat is all trivial because when your in war are you going to keep a goat with you. it's trivial. We have ways today that can put the animal complete to sleep. Again it's all trivial and it becomes irrelevant. Well the question we should be asking first is when is the plant actually dead. When does it die. As you say the animal dies right after the head is cut off, but it's unclear when the vegetable dies. But if you have seen a person kill a chicken with a knife or sword. Some of them even after with there head chopped off run around. Reading the shabad by Guru Nanak Dev ji( starts on ang sung 142 goes to ang sung 143) even after the sugar cane is cut from the ground it is alive. hence why it suffers when in the wooden rollers. And even after that when it is heated it still groans. So it is still alive. As to when the sugar cane actually dies is not clear, but the definite death comes when in the fire and being burnt. Would you agree. So why doesn't Guru Nanak Dev ji say stop people this is not right. We should find a better way to kill this sugar cane as we do with animals. because the jhatka is the prescribed way to kill an animal. And with plants we can do as we wish or see fit. So why the double standard here when some say plants and animals are the same on the food line? One is not higher or lower than the other.