Infernal Monk

I am intrigued by this idea. I feel that the first course of action would be for us to develop a constitution/charter of sorts. Something to outline the mission of the movement, rules and regulations, etc...

I believe I already mentioned all the things in the quote in my earlier posts. But for clarification, yes, I do agree with the quote.

Above quote from Sikhnet, writen by user: Amarjit Singh04 I just thought it was a good post, and might be worth reading.

tru dat.

Ok, but I have another question..then the similarities we have to Hinduism merely coincidental? I mean was Guru Nanak every taught Hindu thought? P.S. I say this because Hinduism is very broad, and some of them also believe in almost the same thing as in Sikhi..just thought that was interesting.. P.S.S. Not implying that Sikhism is a part of Hinduism, they are quite different, just wondering about the many similarities.

Was the message of Sikhism a divine revelation to the gurus? Or were they teaching what they had realized through enlightenment (kinda like Buddha)?

Such a small issue for us to argue about... I mean what is meat? It's good for your body, not the same as protein for vegetarian sources. Ask just about any weight lifter.

This is a semi-valid point in that sure some people will discriminate against you when getting a job. But I feel that this lacks substance. To say that with 5ks you cannot get a good job is ludicrious. I have many friends with very prominent jobs, know many people that are Sikh and millionaries. I also read somewhere that the richest young person in England is a Sikh...to me this point about a job does not seem substantial, as in the end it is your skill that gets you a job. Um..how does my asking you to learn more about the 5ks keep you from providing for your kids? Sorry a little lost on that... (I meant learning it the literal sense of the word, did not mean for you to follow it...maybe that clears it up.. :?: ) Again I don't think you have read the posts here very carefully. You say that you want to participate in the 5ks but feel that you cannot at this point...This is a perfectly reasonable answer. This is how most people feel, this is how I feel. I would like to be Khalsa one day, but I know for a fact I can't do it now. No one said you need to do it now. And as already said those that would disrespect you just because you don't follow 5ks are just ignorant.

First of all I don't think he was trying to insult you, don't get so offended by people, especially on the internet. Anyway, I don't think you have read any of my posts..not to say they are better, but they attempted to answer some of your questions. About you not wanting your children to grow up and face discrimination...um..I think that will happen regardless. I'm a keshdhari sikh, and grew up as one in an American school ever since I was 7 years old. My school's were primarily white christians, sure there were idiots, but nothing too severe. My highschool had 3500 kids, I was the only sikh there. I know you want to protect your kids, but take it from someone who has been there...it won't be a probelm especially if your kids get involved. Till college most of my friends were white..lol. Also, try to understand the meaning of the 5k's before you try and argue their usefullness.. THIS IN NOT AN ATTACK ON U, DON'T TAKE IT AS SUCH

I feel I have already said this, but I will repeat it again. I don't think one needs to take amrit to be a good "Sikh." I agree with those that said it is just water. If the person taking amrit does not make a decision to live their life according to certain principles then drinking sweetened water isn't gonna do anything for you. I don't mean to offend anyone, but it is just that...sweetened water. If I was to follow the way of the Khalsa without taking amrit, would that mean anything? Not to me, but to others maybe. I also am opposed to institutionalization of the faith, which is exactly what will happen when people need to define every little thing. To me Sikhism is great because it is a way of life not some rules you follow. SikhWannabe you have a very western mind set; why the need to define and catagorize everything? You seem to just want acceptance from people that look down on you...it seems you are very much for the institutionalization of the faith....you want an example of what happens to a faith in those circumstances take a look at the Catholic Chruch. I mean the "institutionalization" of Sikhi began back when the British were in India... I honestly don't understand what more you want. There are so many posts here and you don't seem satisfied with the replies. Perhaps we aren't answering the questions to your satisfaction, but atleast let us know which specific part of your question has gone unanswered.. You asked for personal opinions on whether the 5ks were stunting the growth of Sikhi, and you got many responses...just because they are not to your liking does not mean they are not what you asked for... Don't take this as an attack, just trying to understand what exactly it is you are asking..

only the British...

Nobody wants to take your identity as a Sikh away from you. From your posts I get a feeling that you are searching for validation of your identity. I agree with others that told you not to worry, if you believe something then why does it matter what others think. I also agree with you when I see corruptions within Sikhi, which I feel come from the institutionalization of the faith (see topic about this in a different thread). Corruptions such as discriminatory behavior by certain people and “leaders.†You want just our personal thoughts....that is fair, and I will try my best.... My personal view is that you don't need 5k's to be Sikh. To me the very general definition of Sikhi is just a learner (literal meaning of word). So in that respect anyone can be Sikh: Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc... I believe it was said by one of the Gurus, if you are a Muslim, be a good Muslim; if you are Hindu, be a good Hindu. Now what the word Sikh most typically refers to is the person who believes Granth Sahib to be his/her guru. Just that easy, if you believe in the basic principles of naam japna (remembering god as often as possible, not necessarily through shabad, just in your everyday activities...), working hard and earning what you get, and seva. Personally I think those are the most important characteristics needed to be a good Sikh. Then I believe there is the Khalsa: the elite socio-military force within Sikhism. The Khalsa are just a part of Sikhism. Khalsa has quite a clear-cut role within Sikhi: they are to uphold all of its principles, defend the honor of all innocents, and maintain the 5ks (which were given to them to assist them in this). To be the Khalsa are an ideal to strive towards. Now with all that said I don't think every Sikh needs to become a Khalsa, hell I don't think even 70% of those calling themselves Sikhs now will ever become Khalsa. To be there is a difference in Khalsa and a Sikh, in that every Khalsa is a Sikh, but not vice versa. Also make not that many of Sikhs now a days are spread out across the spectrum of Sikh-Khalsa. Many are in-between or leaning more towards one. Ex: keshdari are closer to being Khalsa, while sejdari might not be, but that does not limit anyone’s spirituality. Having 5ks in the end will not determine who is more religious. (also some non-Khalsa keeping kesh do it because THEY see the importance/practicality of it; it does not mean they are right or that you have to follow suit). NO ONE IS BETTER THAN YOU! A person that has 5ks is not better than you and vice versa. Those that would claim such things are stupid. I also disagree with you about recruitment. I agree with commander because I don’t think you have established why it is important. To me one of the best qualities of Sikhi is that unlike most religions we don’t profess to be the best. Sikhism is just another path to god, not the best one. So we can spread the message but to be actively involved in missionary work is a different matter entirely. I don’t support missionary activity because the person is cajoled into a new belief system without choosing for him or herself. The matter you brought up with parents teaching their kids becomes more involved and will just digress from the initial message of my post, so I will avoid it for now. Well that’s all of my rambling. These are simply my personal beliefs as of now, cause they continue to change the more I learn. So in advance I apologize if I have offended anyone, and if there is some egregious error, then pardon it as I'm running on very little sleep. lol.

Very well said. Exactly what I wanted to say, but I didn't quite say it correctly, lol.

Sorry I made an mistake, I meant that "Sikhi or any religion for that matter ISN'T what the..." That all religions are not what they were meant to be.

I did not attend any such lecture, but I agree that Sikhi is meant to be a way of life not an institutionalized relgion. I think when you institutionalize it, kinda like SGPC, you do gain many benefits like a greater sense of identity, but you also lose many aspects of your faith. With institutionalization come rules, regulations, what is orthodox and what's not... Personally I think Sikhi or any religion for that matter is what the "founders" wanted it to be (what they were teaching). Just my two cents...

Why do people worry so much about such little things. To me its much more cultural. My family does rakri every year, we have been doing it since before my parents were married. To me it just represents the love between a brother and sister. Also to all those people that are saying it is not a Sikh practice and should be discontinued: These people just piss me off because they complain about shit like this not being Sikhi, but then they aren't perfect Sikhs. Example: ALL of my cousins in America don't celebrate rakri anymore because they went to Sikh camp one year and were told it is an un-sikh thing to do. They come home and tell their parents that and the parents are so proud! To me that is bullshit, cause my cousins think you shouldn't celebrate rakri if you are sikh, but you can certainly drink, not to patdh, lie to your parents, and not to seva! I mean people place too great of an emphasis on little things that do no harm, but don't care about the main things. Sorry about the rant..just had to vent.

I'm sorry, I haven't read this entire post, and don't feel like it right now...but what is it with everyone to find proof in the SGGS of stuff...I mean the way I see it is that what is said by SGGS is just as important as Guru Gobind Singh ji (Seeing as they are both our gurus). As far as I know the 5 k's were brought about by Guru Gobind Singh for the Khalsa. Also I always felt that anyone could be Sikh, ie a disciple, regardless of religion. I don't understand why people want to institutionalize Sikhi so much, isn't that what the Khalsa was? Forgive me if I have said anything wrong, feel free to correct me.

I didn't know this either... but don't make a difference here, I like all the days, especially the weekends.

I agree that introspection may not be such a bad idea. I think you should just sit down and think about your life. What makes you want commit suicide? Do you think suicide will help anything? All you'll do is hurt all those that care about you. Also just think of all the people in worst situations. Try to put everything in prespective. Is it how you feel about yourself that bothers you, or what other people think? I don't know your situation, but I will try and offer some advice. If it is about other people, about them picking on you or anything. Then I'd say deal with it. As in don't take crap from people. If they are making you feel bad, then you shut them up so you are ok. You have to just find your own strength to move on regardless of what shit heads you have to deal with. The way I see it there are 6 billion people in the world. There are many that you won't like and vice versa. Don't get caught up in worrying about others' opinion. Be bold, and proud of yourself and you'll definitly meet people from a crowd you will like. You just have to be confident in yourself and you will just attract people to yourself. Not telling you to be cocky, just be confident, proud, and strong. Like it was said in an earlier post rarely do people approach the quiet, shy, nervous, down kid. So don't let the world shut you out man, shut the *edited* world out! :yo: This reminds me of a quote my friend cited "When the world gives you lemons, just make lemonade, piss in it and give it to all the people you hate" :mrgreen: Be strong, everything will be alright! I realize that many people will consider what I've said cliche and whatnot, but to me it makes sense so.. :roll:

I full agree with you that we should look at all sides of the issue. However, To call the rebels in Faluja "innocent citizens suffering atrocities while fighting for their freedom from the oppressive Americans" is taking things a bit too far. Those rebels aren't saints. And if they really wanted to make their country better then it would be wise to cooperate with us. That would stabilize the country, and then elections could occur, and we could leave the country sooner. Many people may hate on America, but once Iraq is rebuilt especially if everyone cooperates, all Iraqis will be better off. The government established by us will be one to provide Iraqis with freedom, safety, and prosperity. But I suppose those rebels want things to be like they were under Saddam Hussein, with people starving, oppressed, and fearing for their lives..

Why not talk to someone..Perhaps someone you respect, or even someone on here that you feel comfortable with. Share your burdens...makes life easier.... If you want you can talk to me, I will try to help in anyway I can...

I have just been wondering, that the words religion and philosophy are western methods of classifying things. Where does Sikhi fall into, if anywhere? Would one consider it a religion, a philosophy, an ideology, or what? I was just wondering about this question because with what I know, I can't find a satisfying answer. Note I'm not particularly obsessed with classifying Sikhi, just curious about this.

happy B-day

its possible..been to weddings with them..just not sure where to get them from maybe a local gurudwara will have some?

if someone attempts to kill you, then I feel it is just to kill them. If you just get into a fist fight, then just punch back, don't need to kill. You react based on the person attacking you (self defense)....just my two cents.