CaNaDiAn_jAtTi

U've had enough and so have I.... Look... it's not like i'm some mashed up kurri here jus sayin that to tick u off... Words can be twisted to whatever meaning u want them to have.... I wrote in other post that even though our SGGS is direct word from God, ppl will twist to suit their needs... I don't agree with lustful side of dance, but I rarely see that here at weddings and bday parties as such, esp family ones... I don't go clubbing at all, cuz it's not my thing... So don't go around saying (indirectly).... that I'm jus saying this to validate what I do, cuz bhenji i'm not what u think I am.... I live a balanced life, where my sikhism and my entertainments go hand in hand........ while I go out, I'll remember my God and say thanx for puttin me in the position that u have... I haven't forgotten the reason why we're here... but then again why would God put us in such life if he wanted us to be ascetics and lead a life of meditation only.... I'm just saying that ppl have forgotten that there needs to be a balance and that ppl should really really really stop judging others... and live ur own life... and if u feel dancing is wrong by all means don't dance, but then don't sit around at parties watching others dance cuz it ticks ppl like me off that I'm being watched like some form of entertainment (and then i stop, cuz I dance for no one but myself)....leave early if u have to....

Lalleshvari Ji, do u agree wit the dohera?

Hmm....about the eating meat or not... Did u know that Guru Gobind Singh Ji said nothing about it....that it was perfectly fine for one person to eat and still be a sikh... :shock: crazy idea isn't it, but tru The person that brought vegetaniarism to sikhism was Baba Buddha Ji, after Guru Ji was gone and he was still fighting the mughals.... he's the one that brought about this extreme form of sikhism that we have today... Don't say that just because we have the word of God straight from the Guru's that it still isn't messed around with... there were ppl back in the day during the Guru's time that wanted to mess up with our religion because of the power associated to it,... Out of curiosity who wrote the dhohera that we say at the end of ardas, I'd like to know....

It's part of culture if nothin else.... What is bhangra, what is giddha.... those are all folk dances part of our heritage and it's all nice to be a good sikh and all, but if u forget about ur culture and focus on religious aspect of life while ur living, ur never going to be able to practice the ghrasti part of life... What i'm finding reading all of ur posts is that ur going to an extreme form of sikhism where there is no balance between the spiritual part of life and material... face it we have to live in this world and deal with ppl all around us... the point is to live it w/out attachment to items, but to still utilise whatever we have around us, otherwise why don't u just go to the jungle and practice ascetism... one should control their thoughts and actions but not go as far as putting restrictions on urself that make u feel uncomfortable...and all of u r prolly gonna say that their not restrictions that it's what the Guru Ji's said, but would the Guru Ji's really want u to live an unhappy life... we're His children, and any father would want to see His sons and daughters enjoying their life and making the most of it.... Live in this world... that's their msg...

Yo... makeup if applied properly and is washed off every night actually protects ur skin from damage from the sun and environment... so there u go, there is an advantage to wearking make up and it's not like we're gauding it up.... It's like the clothes idea... If u wear it simply, like a plain foundation, eyliner and lip gloss, no harm in it, it's there to add a little and protect ur skin...like a barrier, however if it gets out of hand where ur caking it up and wearing tons of eye shadow and blush as well, then there's a problem... I'd like to suggest all of those that are wearing chapsticks and glosses that are against wearing make up to stop that as well, cuz God wants ur lips to be dry... so go with the flow....

Uh huh....right :?, and sticking my hand in hot oil is even better.... :shock:

In my opinion... the definition of sikh is a learner, right, one who is ever seeking out answers and God.... Therefore...if one cuts their hair, but is on the spiritual quest as per the Guru Ji's ...then I would still consider them a sikh... who knows...along the line, it might come about that they will go for Amrit... However one keeping their hair may not be considered a sikh if he does not follow the Guru's teachings.... So u have to be careful... U can't judge a book by it's cover rite....

If we're not supposed to have sexual pleasures, how come most of the Guru Ji's had most of their children after Gur Gaddhi... And don't say that it was for reproduction purposes only, because we all know that there is pleasure in it even if it is for making children...

Lalleshvari ji I meant Neo Singh's quote from the kirtan sohila...unfortuately I guess my reply came after urs....but thanks anways

Would u mind writing that in punjabi for me.... Just so that I can read it and interpret it myself.... english translations can be very subtle in their accidental manipulations of what is meant... punjabi is punjabi after all....

Well said Lalleshvari Ji.... First of all, I think ppl should stop focussing there energies on what other ppl are doing and focus on urself.... If u think they r doing wrong that's UR opinion... At the end it will up to God to decided who is right or wrong.... As for what is written in the Rehat Marayada according to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, interpretations can be twisted this way and that... and unfortunately we don't have someone from the Guru Ji's time to tell us exactly what he was thinking when he wrote about kesh..... So chill peeps

Lol....the only reason I know is cuz........ I'm from there tooo! :wink:

TrueSingh, u from Alberta mate....lol....

Mate, it's not just about the strength.... It's how everyone else should start to change the way they think...it's about changing ur preception.... And more than anything, I think when time comes, yea I'll have the strength to prolly go through it... That's not the point, to me, the issue is of the hypocritical nature of guys... They won't go for someone ugly, they'll go for the most prettiest, sweetest, shy type of girl they'll find... If i wanted to I could make a statement and stop doing this all together...but thing is, I think one should first focus on their spiritual development and then the physical aspect... I was doing quite fine with my paath until last yr when I started uni... To me... I would rather have my mann clean and purified then not cuttin my hair....but thats just me at the moment

So this is my two cents worth on this topic, all though ppl may not think I should discuss this as at the moment still cut my hair and do everything that is not sikhi...but hey, that's me... The reason that most girls are put through this initiation torture (and believe it fricken hurts)... is to beautify ourselves for our future husbands... I myself couldn't have cared less what I looked like five yrs back, but then my mom was like, "u have to take care of urself, no one will want to marry u, u have to look groomed and well presented..." and so I started it up as well... and if one was to look at me, I'm the least kept person in this dept., yes I do it, but I'm not a fanatic about it, and at school, I'll be the least noticeable chick around... The girls around me are much much much more into this stuff as well as skimpy clothes, and make up and all that stuff.... I'm not into the dating scene, don't want to be, but it would be nice if one guy, just one guy came up and said, Damn Nimrit ur gorgeous.... that's never happened, my sisters both younger than myself have had ppl have crushes on them... I've been told that I have the most beautiful personality and am an amazing person inside, but do u think that ppl out there want to get to know someone that they're not attracted to, hell no... Seriously guys, think about it urselves... do u think it's beautiful when a woman has moustache, when she raises her arms wearing a sleevless shirt, it's gorgeous to see all that arm pit hair... U may think that yea I can handle, but be truly honest wit ur self, do u find it attractive... Yes in sikhi it says not to remove the hair, but it also talks about ppl that have hair, yet don't know God... It's a really difficult thing to follow, thats why i'm having such a hard time trying to decide...but guys r the most hypocritical individuals on earth... mate i've seen it in my own family... u all say one thing, but when it comes down to what u want urself, u go for the opposite end....

Extremely well said Neo Ji, I don't think anyone can argue with that...

I don't agree with that situation.... Times have changed and I for one don't believe that divorce is a western concept only.... Back in the day, in the pinds, if a woman was being abused by her husband she had no place to go, her family would have nothin with her... That is a sad sad situation....and I wouldn't want anyone to go through that....by saying that divorce is just for the westerners, ur saying that once an individual is married to someone they must live with them forever no matter what the situation...and that's wrong... Marriage is a partnership and when that fails...I believe it's right to seperate rather than suffering for the rest of your life....

Gurpreet Bhenji, don't apologise (in a good way)...it's a debate isn't it...the whole idea is to stimulate one's mind and explore the world through it... I love this and to me it's a very constructive debate (i've been through some that have no purpose absolutely...) By personal, I mean it's a personal journey to God, we cannot go in groups in pairs with loved ones....it is upto us to decide how we want to present ourselves to God.... Sikhi is blessed that it's such a straight, clear and enlightened path... However I cannot reject the creations that my Lord has created... If one has a crippled brother, just because it is not as able as u and I r, are we goin to reject him... are we goin to say that ur not worthy of God because u have to be whole and be exactly like me.... No... That is how I look at the religions... they are not alike in every principle, but they arose according to the need that was there in the world at that time, and hence for me to say that Islam is not equal to Sikhism, just because it discusses life in a different style does not seem right.... If God believed that there aren't equal or that there was no need to have the different religions, by now they would have diminished (actually there are religions dwindling now, such as Jainism...) I cannot say that any other religion is not the same as Sikhism, because it's source is still from God...and anything that goes back to Him, is equal in my eyes.... Now that doesn't mean that I'm goin to run and embrace other religions... it means that I see them as different paths to Almighty Lord... and I have chosen the path that I believe is the most true to MYSELF.....

Gurpreet Bhenji, Although I see what u r saying, I still cannot agree with u just because to me when someone says that Islam is the best or the Hinduism or Christianity or Sikhism is the best.... One brings ego to that statement and haunkar.... That is a belief that we carry that our religion is the right way, but is that statement going to save us, I don't think so.... To me, All religions have the advantages and disadvantages , it's a given.. but it's up to us to overcome those and to just follow the path that feels right to us... and To be honest with...I'm not amritdhari as of yet, it's something that I'm looking... I've done my own research into some religions, looked at what my friends do, what does my family do, community ppl... and I came to the conclusion myself that Sikhism is the right religion for ME... We cannot say that it is the right religion for everyone else because that is upto God to decide what he has in store for them.... Therefore religion is very personal and u and I can agree or argue about Sikhism being the best here, but others will of course go for their own religion, it's human nature.... That's why I think we need to step away from such ideas, because it's useless, it's not goin to get us anywhere and I'd rather focus on my Guru Ji, rather than arguing that sikhism is the best....

I agree with K4UR.... It's easier to target the not so pretty ones, ones with weight problems or problems at home...because they have low self esteem... Pretty ones (even in they're not into sikhi), have the confidence at least to pick and choose guys they want to be wit... The less fortunate gals end up goin for the first guy that showers them wit any kind of affection...and I've heard that the muslim guys are told to go after the less fortunate type and that even if they don't find them attractive, that they'll get the most gorgeous Hoors in the next life (after life...) And although it's sad for the girl that she converted, I can't judge her, because it's difficult living in a muslim predominant society...My mom visited Muscat and met a Sardar ji working there, and he said that it's tough, that u don't get the type of jobs or living standards u'd want because they all think ur kafirs... And she's young, she'd want a life where she could be whoever she wanted to be, and unfortunately I don't see that happening for her....

Gurpreet Bhenji... When I say that all religions are equal, I go back to the fact that if one was to go to the basics, they convey the same msg.... and to me they are just paths to the same goal...to be one with God... Corruption is creeping in even with our religion as the Gurudhwaras are no longer the house of the Lord where his praises are sung...Yes kirtan is done, but no one is paying attention or praying there with their full hearts...All i see is gossiping, ppl seeking more maya through donations.... The Gurudhwara has lost it's meaning.... That is how corruption and evil creep in, through the greed of the people.... It's not the religion to blame but the ppl who manipulate and misuse the words of God.... So...thats why we need to recognize this aspect and work towards not letting it get over run by others greed... (Also I don't believe that in the Koran it's written that Islam is the only religion, I could be wrong here, but to me that wouldn't make sense to have something like that written in a holy book....)

If I was challenged by someone along the lines of what u are saying, Gurpreet Bhenji, my response would be this: All religions are equal, whether one would like to believe it or not... As turmoils covered the Earth from time to time, God felt the need to have someone spread His msg to bring His ppl back to Him... Now these prophets have been coming along for thousands of yrs... With each prophet, a religion was established by the followers around to keep the teachings of that person alive...but as time goes by evil always has a way of trickling in, and the religions are skewered and the writings are manipulated to fit certain ppl's belief...God saw this all happening, so every so often, he'd have to send another person to spread his msg with some changes here and there... Do u get the picture here... (how come there were never any two prophets or Gurus at one time???)... Hence Hinduism and Judaism were first, then Christianity, then Islam...and finally when God got fed up of everything, he made it as crystal clear as possible...He had the Ten Guru Ji's come about... Our SGGS ji has been compiled by our Guru's, it is word from, how direct can u get.... And so although u may believe in ur religion being the only one, I believe that there the same, just with minor teaks and changes here there to make sure that mankind realises His msg.... that it is time to go back to Him... after all it's all about Salvation isn't it? And as for joining ur religion (whatever it may be)... Why should I when God gave me the opportunity to come to Him through the straightest path possible.... That would be my answer.....

Neo Ji, I'm very flattered that u agree with me on this subject, however this is supposed to be a formal debate and therefore if u do agree with me, why do u...give some reason rather than jus sayin that u do...there needs to be more substance to ur post... :wink: Btw I like ur avatar, where'd u get it from?

I don't know if we should be judging religions as being equal or if one religion is the true religion, cuz that would bring haunkar into it and the Guru Ji's told us to stay away from being boastful or thinking that we're the best...we are to stay low and to follow our path which was give to us by God.... I think what we need to do with the younger kids is to bring them back to the basics of sikhi and work up...kids nowadays don't even know their mool mantar, that's really really really sad ( i know one girl personally )... We need to show them what our religion is and why it's important to us... there shouldn't be a need to compare religions then....

Damn...obviously my history isn't my strongest subject... Oh well...then when were the other 4 takhts brought into the picture and why????