SikhKhoj

Yes, I also heard about Bhai Mardana being asked to keep his hair. But I find it hard to believe that Guru Nanak Sahib or any other Guru got married by Brahmans and their ceremonies.

The question is, what is the 'Anand order' exactly? If it wasn't around fire, when and how did it become part and parcel of Sikhi? How was it done prior to it? Certainly circumabulating around Guru Granth Sahib wasn't part of Sikhi until after 1708. There were not that many Birs and the Sangat was (unlike now) very diverse. I don't think Sikhs came from Kabul or Assam to get married around Guru Granth Sahib birs. Have you also heard of Guru Nanak writing Ik Oankar on a sheet and doing laavan around it?

Satnamis have converted to Christianity or reverted to Hinduism. Even Jharkands ex CM was a Satnami. So sad that we have done nothing to help our Sikh tribes such as Satnamis, Vanjaras, Sikligars etc. However their number is not 1 crore (10 million), much less than that. Probably less 1 million.

Here is a translation of Muktnama by Macauliffe, but of Suraj Prakash version I think. Sau Sakhi Mukatnama is written in prose and Suraj Prakash one is the versified account. NOTE: Macauliffes Mukatnama is slightly different to the one found in Pyara Singh Padams Sau Sakhi. They most probably relied on different manuscripts. Padams version is more anti malech in nature. It is in Padams version that it says to abstain from marrying in mother and fathers surname.

Just don't call anyone phenji or phaji unless you really feel like it. Honestly, the thing is about TREATING others as you would brother/sister (i.e. not look at them with lust etc), while there still are so many people saying phaji/phenji and then going in relationships/marriages. So saying phenji phaji while still having wrong intentions is just wrong. Most Punjabi Sikhs don't marry into dadke and nanke, however I have seen a rising trend in Punjab of marrying in nanke (even dadke), however thats always against family wishes. Only Sikhs that intermarry within families are the Khatris. Many Pakistani and Afghani Sikhs are Khatris and that explains them marrying their cousins. Another thing, Sikh community in Pak and Afghan is very small, nobody from India wants to marry their daughter in those countries, so they are forced to marry within families.

No, it starts with something like 'sun gursikha mukatnama updes'. Sau Sakhi is available on net, if you want I'll mail you the PDF.

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/displayPageContent.jsp?ID=2953&page=57&CategoryID=1&Searched=nirankari+anand Read from page 50 to page 63. What are your opinions?

Has anyone read Mukatnama? I feel it is one of the few Rehatnamas that has almost no anti-Gurmat statements. It doesn't say anything special either, but still. It has one thing to note, it is one of the few Rehatnamas (if not only) that state that a Sikh should not marry into his fathers or mothers clan.

Would be nice. Only hope he doesn't say things without concrete references. Mainu kuch phejna nahi si?

On what points do you want to see his research?

True. But don't mind, GS Mann does have the potential, so I prefer him researching than overviewing what is already know ('anyone' could do that).

Interesting article, altough it isn't as valuable as some of his other articles.

Urdu belongs to UP originally. Problem is, our Punjabis are becoming Sanskritised while the Pakistanis are becoming Persianised/Arabicised in knowledge of the Punjabi language. We got to preserve our sabhyacharak pehchaan and ithaas (cultural identity and history).

I was thinking of making a room with Sikh videos, games, etc where children could learn but your idea is also a nice one.

Some real nice ideas out there NeoSingh. If you had the choice, would you still include library/gym in gurdwara building or build them in compound around the main Darbar?

Beautiful, sadi zubaan kini sohni aa...

Thanks. So it is indeed Sheikh Fareeds Bani according to you. I also feel it is Sheikh Fareed but I heard Nabha, Macauliffe and some others say its Fareed Sani. Fareed is one of the only Bhagats that didn't meet Guru Nanak Sahib then.

Haha seen that clip. Most Jatts-fighting-in-khets movies in our Punjab were copied from Pakistani Punjabi movies. There are quite a few Pak Punjabi dramas and movies but not many channels (2-4)

Read some books, visit some historical Gurdwaras related to some incidents, maybe you'll think differently? But thats not the topic, if you want to discuss that open another topic please.

I believe that most, if not all, Bhagats whose Bani is in Guru Granth Sahib met Guru Nanak Sahib and became Sikhs (they became Gurmukhs). But what about Sheikh Fareed? Some say Fareed whose Bani is in Granth Sahib is a latter Fareed (Sani) who lived during Gurus time (I think Macauliffe says this too?) I have never really looked into this, nor do I have the time these days. Can someone outline the main views, opinions on which Bhagat Fareed wrote the Bani we have now in the Granth Sahib.

I know one thing for sure, Balochistan and some Sindhis are willing to seperate from Pakistan. Jihad is also going strong up in Pakhtunkhwa (they let it grow, now gone out of hand). So if ever Pakistan breaks, I will support West Pakistan as a country. I am seeing the demand of seperating from Pak, but they never express it openly because they are called kafirs, or told that they shouldn't listen to Hindu or Sikh propaganda. They brainwash them with the 'Muslim' thinking (Ummah). This ironically while Balochis and Sindhis also ask for a seperate country. I once read in a Pakistanis article that it is only Punjabis and Pathans really supporting unity of Pak.

Indeed. Isn't it kind off forbidden in Sikhi too, all the Jattvaad (and now Chamarvaad too ), Sharaab, Kuri, Patoley songs. I won't lie, I do listen to songs occasionaly and some lyrics do contain the above elements. I don't think we are another Islam forbidding songs here. Dirty songs however shouldn't be allowed, see all the bad that these songs (and movies) have done to the youth of Punjab. Couples elope in every second village in Punjab, aids, etc. On a side note I feel that the film Khamosh Paani is quite well made, it shows how village Pakistani Punjabis were before and how they became lateron, after the Islamisation of Gen Zia Ul Haq. We see the Punjabi villager Saleem becoming a radicaled Muslim who at the end (30 years later or so) is preaching hatred while conversing in Urdu - I feel it quite nicely portrayed how radicalisation also 'eliminated' Punjabi (or maybe it is just because Pakistani TV don't have many Punjabi shows and the protagonist was on tv in the film, but I doubt that)

Yes, but Seraikis say they have nothing to do with Punjabis (not all, but the separatists). Indeed. Just a note, I have noticed that MOST Pak Punjabis that are proud to be Punjabi and speak the language are usual less orthodox (lets put it this way) than other Pakistani Muslims. I can be wrong too though. BTW, Bagri spoken in northern Rajasthan can also be considered as a dialect of Punjabi.

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/29-Apr-2011/I-was-not-included-in-PPPPMLQ-talks-Gilani

My mistake, I meant official country languages. They are recognised only on provincial level, national level only Urdu. Seraiki is a dialect of Punjabi, but some people and politicans do want to divide Punjab. Since 1970s or so Pakistan has seperated Seraiki language from Punjabi, and now there are demands to seperate Seraiki Suba (south Punjab) from Punjab. This has also to do with economy, Southern Punjab is poor compared to the rest of Punjab. Hazara is in Pakhtunkwa, Pathan region, they are calling for a seperate province of their own too. And Hindko is indeed a dialect of Punjabi (and so is Seraiki).